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WA707atMSP
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US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:54 pm

Wonderful news for air travellers:

The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.

Airlines will also be able to require that ESA's remain on a leash or harness, and fit in the area under the seat.

Here's a link to an article with more information:

http://www.startribune.com/us-seeks-to- ... 567197072/

There is a 60 day comment period, but unless significant opposition emerges - which is unlikely, because groups representing both military veterans and flight attendants STRONGLY support the rule change - the law could be in effect by April.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Well done if it comes into law, and well overdue. Common sense is making a come back.
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mia
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:00 pm

Airlines would not be allowed to request prior notification. However, they can require owners to check in earlier. Whats to stop me from showing up with my dog in a carrier at the gate and telling the attendant its my service animal?
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:07 pm

So do pax need to provide a certification that their dog is "specially trained"? If not, it is a toothless requirement.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
airbazar
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:08 pm

mia wrote:
Airlines would not be allowed to request prior notification. However, they can require owners to check in earlier. Whats to stop me from showing up with my dog in a carrier at the gate and telling the attendant its my service animal?

Exactly.
I have no problem with emotional support animals, any animal. The problem is lack of oversight over those animals. How can anyone at the airport validate whether the dog is an emotional support animal? They can't.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:11 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.

Airlines will also be able to require that ESA's remain on a leash or harness, and fit in the area under the seat.

Isn't this contradictory? If ESA's are banned how can airlines require them to be on a leash or under the seat? I guess it is meaning that "pets" are to be leashed and fir under seat?

Tugg
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Polot
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:12 pm

Tugger wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.

Airlines will also be able to require that ESA's remain on a leash or harness, and fit in the area under the seat.

Isn't this contradictory? If ESA's are banned how can airlines require them to be on a leash or under the seat? I guess it is meaning that "pets" are to be leashed and fir under seat?

Tugg

The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:12 pm

mia wrote:
Airlines would not be allowed to request prior notification. However, they can require owners to check in earlier. Whats to stop me from showing up with my dog in a carrier at the gate and telling the attendant its my service animal?


Presumably, if you check in without telling the airline you have a support animal, then show up at the gate with a dog, you will legally violate the airline's terms and conditions of carriage, and you'll be given two choices: 1. your dog travels in the cargo hold, or 2. you and your dog stay home.
 
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snn2003
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:20 pm

mia wrote:
Airlines would not be allowed to request prior notification. However, they can require owners to check in earlier. Whats to stop me from showing up with my dog in a carrier at the gate and telling the attendant its my service animal?


At my airline, my airline-issued cell phone tells me when to expect an Emotional Support or Medical Assist Animals. If someone has an animal that's not in its carrier but is not on my list, I have to notify the Captain and the Agent (If we are still on the ground).
On behalf of your entire Boston based crew, thanks for flying with us today.
 
atrude777
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:22 pm

Emotional Support Animals DO require advanced notification, 48 hours, and up to 4 different letters and documents.

From United's Website....
"
Forms and documents for emotional support and psychiatric service animals

If you’re traveling with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you’ll need to complete these forms and submit them for approval through our secure portal:

Medical/Mental Health Professional Form
Veterinary Health Form
Passenger Confirmation of Liability and Emotional Support/Psychiatric Service Animal Behavior Form

Your forms will be valid one year from the date of the earliest signed authorizations, and you’ll need to submit them at least 48 hours before each trip that you take with your support animal, but the earlier the better. Please bring your original forms with you while you’re traveling and be prepared to show them if we ask to see them."
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
lawair
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:32 pm

This is a proposed rule. DOT would need to review comments and probably make changes before the rule becomes final. It is highly unlikely this rule would become final by April, given that is right after the comment period ends. And lots of things could change.

DOT is not banning emotional support animals. It is proposing to no longer recognize emotional support animals as service animals. Airlines could start to treat ESAs as pets and would no longer need to accept ESAs as service animals, but they could continue to do so if they chose to.

Service animals (as distinct from ESAs) are trained to perform a specific task as an accommodation for a disability. Airlines would only be required to accept service animals that are trained dogs, like guide dogs. The proposed rule would allow carriers to require that service animals be harnessed or tethered and that passengers submit DOT forms. (Giving false information on these forms would be a federal offense.)

All of this is on DOT's website
www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news
 
nycbjr
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:41 pm

wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!
 
smokeybandit
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:47 pm

nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


Having a diagnosed mental illness doesn't necessarily mean that your pet brings you relief of your symptoms. And if your condition is relieved by an animal, get a trained service dog.
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
How long before someone launches a lawsuit claiming this places “undue burden” on vulnerable people?


The rule change has to go into effect, first, but it probably won't be long before some person or group challenges it. Such a suit might get an immediate injunction to pause the rule - and it might not, leaving the rule in effect while it plays out in the courts (multiple - don't forget appeals!) for years.


Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.
 
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TheZ
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:28 pm

Best news I've read all day!
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
sevenfeet
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:34 pm

The real problem was the abuse of the original intent of the rule. There may be a small number of people who benefit from an ESA. But the vast majority are just using the rule so as to not put their animal in the belly of the plane. We've all been on those flights where we observe someone with an ESA and we cock our heads and say to ourselves, "really?".

Case in point....on a recent flight of mine was an NFL player in my home market who is on injured reserve and walking with a walking boot. Otherwise he's ok. Accompanying him was his ESA, a bulldog. The dog was cute and well-behaved. But does this guy who regularly puts his body on the line to go against defenses really need a little dog to make him feel better? To quote the long running ESPN comedy spot, "C'mon, Man!"
 
dfwjim1
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:35 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Adipocere wrote:
How long before someone launches a lawsuit claiming this places “undue burden” on vulnerable people?


The rule change has to go into effect, first, but it probably won't be long before some person or group challenges it. Such a suit might get an immediate injunction to pause the rule - and it might not, leaving the rule in effect while it plays out in the courts (multiple - don't forget appeals!) for years.


Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?
 
WA707atMSP
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:40 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

The rule change has to go into effect, first, but it probably won't be long before some person or group challenges it. Such a suit might get an immediate injunction to pause the rule - and it might not, leaving the rule in effect while it plays out in the courts (multiple - don't forget appeals!) for years.


Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?


Because there's been a backlash against all emotional support animals, due to too many people pretending their untrained pets are emotional support animals. Veterans have been shamed for bringing legitimate emotional support animals on aircraft, and veterans' groups are concerned there will be a ban on all animals other than seeing eye dogs. Veterans' groups feel this legislation will enable them to continue to bring their trained dogs on aircraft, while keeping untrained dogs out of passenger cabins.
 
bob75013
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:52 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
Wonderful news for air travellers:

The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.

Airlines will also be able to require that ESA's remain on a leash or harness, and fit in the area under the seat.

.


Actually, the proposed rule requires that ESAs fit at the passengers' feet. There 'is no under seat requirement.
 
BigGSFO
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:59 pm

I once sat next to a woman who had an emotional support monkey. He was a little guy, and popped out of her carry on and sat on her shoulder. It was actually kinda cool and gave me a story about the time I sat next to woman who had an emotional support monkey.

Regardless, other than his opposable thumbs, I am unsure how he offered a support that's different form a dog.

I do support this decision. I've heard stories about pigs, rats, snakes, and a menagerie of other creatures that were claimed to offer emotional support, but it's doubtful they do and can understand that they can quite disruptive inflight, whether by their own behavior or the attention they get from other passengers.
 
alasizon
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:14 pm

nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


I highly suggest you read up on the Air Carrier Access Act which covers support animals on an aircraft and in the terminal. It is very clear that only dogs or miniature horses are considered actual service animals and an emotional support animal is not a recognized service animal.
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usflyer msp
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:37 pm

This tittle is actually not correct. DOT is proposing removing all protections for emotional support animals and updating the definition of and limiting the protections for service animals to trained dogs that perform a function for you.
 
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stl07
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:53 pm

So while this is great news, what happens to those who actually need one of these like a veteran
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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OA412
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:07 pm

I've had to delete a very large number of off-topic posts. Please keep the discussion on topic, otherwise it will be locked.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:13 pm

Good initiative by the government. With 100 Million pet dogs, 6 Million+ pet reptiles and everything in between, this can go either way, so submit enough comments supporting this initiative.

Here is the direct link to submit comments
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0068-4724
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IADCA
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:14 pm

nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


The ADA doesn't apply when the Air Carrier Access Act does, and the DOT is authorized to promulgate regulations under the latter statute.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:19 pm

great this will lead to increased revenue as people will have to pay the pet fee now instead of calling everything a ESA

This is what happens when a system collapses under corruption. When everyone is pulling the scam. Sorry for that 1 out of 100000000 customers who really needed their ESA
 
btbx11
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:20 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

The rule change has to go into effect, first, but it probably won't be long before some person or group challenges it. Such a suit might get an immediate injunction to pause the rule - and it might not, leaving the rule in effect while it plays out in the courts (multiple - don't forget appeals!) for years.


Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?


I imagine that it's because so many of our veterans are in need of legitimate service animals, and the proliferation of untrained "emotional support" pets interferes with the work of the vets' service animals.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:28 pm

Finally!
I travel with my pet dog.
I pay to fly my pet.
My preference is the airlines that want to make a profit off my pet. I'm perfectly happy paying a reasonable ancillary fee.

Last fight: "You had a dog?!?"
My reply: "Yea, it was the thing snoring."

atrude777 wrote:
Emotional Support Animals DO require advanced notification, 48 hours, and up to 4 different letters and documents.

From United's Website....
"
Forms and documents for emotional support and psychiatric service animals

If you’re traveling with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you’ll need to complete these forms and submit them for approval through our secure portal:

Medical/Mental Health Professional Form
Veterinary Health Form
Passenger Confirmation of Liability and Emotional Support/Psychiatric Service Animal Behavior Form

Your forms will be valid one year from the date of the earliest signed authorizations, and you’ll need to submit them at least 48 hours before each trip that you take with your support animal, but the earlier the better. Please bring your original forms with you while you’re traveling and be prepared to show them if we ask to see them."

Reasonable.

Lightsaber
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nws2002
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:31 pm

stl07 wrote:
So while this is great news, what happens to those who actually need one of these like a veteran


IME, most veterans actually have a psychiatric service animal, which has always been a separate category from an emotional support animal because they are trained to provide a service.
 
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BanjoYoshi
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:38 pm

I have a close family member with schizophrenia that her dog makes her at ease & calm along with medication ofcourse.. I dont like this change but I'm not surprised this country keeps taking things away from metal health patients & then they wanna offer thoughts and prayers when things go wrong. And we all know theres gate agents and employees that talk to these passengers very nasty.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:42 pm

BanjoYoshi wrote:
I have a close family member with schizophrenia that her dog makes her at ease & calm along with medication ofcourse.. I dont like this change but I'm not surprised this country keeps taking things away from metal health patients & then they wanna offer thoughts and prayers when things go wrong. And we all know theres gate agents and employees that talk to these passengers very nasty.

Please read the prior posts on the process for such people to continue to take trained emotional and psychiatric dogs.

This stops the nonsense that was going on. My last flight there were easily ten emotional support animals and 3 pets. If the USA is in such bad shape that 5% of us need emotional support animals, something has gone wrong.

Please advise your family member on the process.

Lightsaber
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Indy
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:44 pm

It is about time. This has been so badly abused. Flying through ATL recently, I saw so many obvious cases of the family pet coming along as the "emotional support" animal. Trained dogs are usually pretty obvious because of the way they behave around distractions. The family pet is typically all over the place.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
wezgulf3
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:49 pm

BanjoYoshi wrote:
I have a close family member with schizophrenia that her dog makes her at ease & calm along with medication ofcourse.. I dont like this change but I'm not surprised this country keeps taking things away from metal health patients & then they wanna offer thoughts and prayers when things go wrong. And we all know theres gate agents and employees that talk to these passengers very nasty.



That’s not what is happening, this proposal is to make your family member travel easier with their support animal, there have been numerous story’s if people taking ridiculous animals onto flights when they aren’t real EMA’s. If the bill goes through and your family member has a genuine EMA she won’t have an issue.
 
MrBretz
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Indy wrote:
It is about time. This has been so badly abused. Flying through ATL recently, I saw so many obvious cases of the family pet coming along as the "emotional support" animal. Trained dogs are usually pretty obvious because of the way they behave around distractions. The family pet is typically all over the place.

I agree with this completely. So many pets, not just at airports, but all over the place.
 
questions
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:19 pm

Per this link:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news

Definition of Service Animal: The Department proposes to define a service animal as a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a qualified individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. This proposed definition of a service animal is similar to the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) definition of a service animal.

Documentation: Airlines would be permitted to require passengers with a disability traveling with a service animal to complete and submit to the airline the following forms developed by DOT as a condition of transportation: (1) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Health Form, to be completed by a veterinarian in order to certify the animal’s good health; (2) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Behavior and Training Attestation Form, to be completed by the service animal handler in order to attest to the animal’s good behavior; and (3) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Relief Attestation, to be completed by the service animal handler when traveling with a service animal on a flight eight hours or longer in order to verify that the animal has the ability to either not relieve itself, or can relieve itself in a sanitary manner. Under the Department’s proposal, these three documents would be the only documents that an airline could require from an individual with a disability traveling with a service animal. The DOT forms would include a warning that it would be a Federal crime for a service animal handler to make false statements or representations on these forms to secure disability accommodations.

Breed Restrictions: The Department proposes to continue prohibiting airlines from imposing breed and other categorical restrictions on service animals. In the NPRM, the Department proposes explicit language that states that airlines are not permitted to refuse to transport service animals based on breed.
——-


Self reporting of behavior and training is allowed. Federal crime to make false statements.

Seems like all the emotional support dogs will simply move over into the category of Service Animal. There will be a lot of self reporting liars.

There needs to be certified training standards and proof of the animal’s passing.

There absolutely needs to be breed restriction especially while loop holes exist.

But... a good start!
 
konkret
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:22 pm

sevenfeet wrote:
Case in point....on a recent flight of mine was an NFL player in my home market who is on injured reserve and walking with a walking boot. Otherwise he's ok. Accompanying him was his ESA, a bulldog. The dog was cute and well-behaved. But does this guy who regularly puts his body on the line to go against defenses really need a little dog to make him feel better? To quote the long running ESPN comedy spot, "C'mon, Man!"


So you say that professional football players are immune to emotional/mental health issues?
 
davescj
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:55 am

This is a great change. The reality is that aircraft are not designed for animals in the passenger cabin. In the case of service dogs (such as guide dogs) or psychiatric animals, which are trained animals, this will not be a problem. I also am probably in the minority in suggesting as well that no animal should be allowed to impede exit of passengers in anyway. If that means a person must either purchase or hope for an open seat, so be it. I am glad for this change.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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usxguy
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:34 am

Air travel is NOT a right, but a privilege. Therefore, concessions to accommodate all should not be made. Reasonable, yes. Forced, no. Especially by government.

The public has gotten away too long by being cheap and claiming every animal is an ESA and its causing a mess. Its about time the DOT tries to "fix" it.
xx
 
RL757PVD
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:21 am

$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
bravotango75
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:50 am

This is an outrage, how dare the DoT not allow me to travel with my Support Python, they'll hear for my lawyers...
 
sircygnus
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:04 am

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


Could not agree more, and for that $125 it takes up a carry-on and I get no FF benefits. No wonder people falsely claim ESA. I’ve been a sucker paying this the entire time. Have no problem paying and $50 seems reasonable. Glad to see the FAA cracking down
 
MIflyer12
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:21 am

usxguy wrote:
Air travel is NOT a right, but a privilege. Therefore, concessions to accommodate all should not be made. Reasonable, yes. Forced, no. Especially by government.

The public has gotten away too long by being cheap and claiming every animal is an ESA and its causing a mess. Its about time the DOT tries to "fix" it.


I don't think you understand the ability of Congress to regulate interstate commerce, nor recognize 100+ years of government support for aviation.

Maybe you are the bright light quited as saying 'Tell the government to keep their hands off my Medicare.' You're about 35 years late to the Air Carrier Access Act.
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:41 am

nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


OK here we go again.

The ADA "does not" recognize emotional support animals.

The ACAA "does currently" accept ESAs. That's soon to change due to the number of bites & mailings by ESAs that are really untrained pets. You might love your pet enough to lie bout it, but that does not mean someone should be injured due to your bad pet.

You want to keep your pet who is not nice to others with you then you need proof of insurance before your allowed on.
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:47 am

stl07 wrote:
So while this is great news, what happens to those who actually need one of these like a veteran


The Service Animals that veterans get are trained to react to them when they start to have an episode. They nudge them or do other things to distract them from the memories that are creating the episode. The difference is they Perform a physical action. They are not an ESA!
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:54 am

dfwjim1 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

The rule change has to go into effect, first, but it probably won't be long before some person or group challenges it. Such a suit might get an immediate injunction to pause the rule - and it might not, leaving the rule in effect while it plays out in the courts (multiple - don't forget appeals!) for years.


Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?


Because they are getting rude comments about their trained service animals or denied entry. They & people with real service dogs have also had some of the service animals attacked by by an ESA that never had temperance training. An ESA that bites, barks & attacks. THen had their dogs put down from injuries due to the fact they are trained NOT to fight.
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:06 am

questions wrote:
Per this link:
https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/latest-news

Definition of Service Animal: The Department proposes to define a service animal as a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a qualified individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. This proposed definition of a service animal is similar to the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) definition of a service animal.

Documentation: Airlines would be permitted to require passengers with a disability traveling with a service animal to complete and submit to the airline the following forms developed by DOT as a condition of transportation: (1) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Health Form, to be completed by a veterinarian in order to certify the animal’s good health; (2) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Behavior and Training Attestation Form, to be completed by the service animal handler in order to attest to the animal’s good behavior; and (3) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Relief Attestation, to be completed by the service animal handler when traveling with a service animal on a flight eight hours or longer in order to verify that the animal has the ability to either not relieve itself, or can relieve itself in a sanitary manner. Under the Department’s proposal, these three documents would be the only documents that an airline could require from an individual with a disability traveling with a service animal. The DOT forms would include a warning that it would be a Federal crime for a service animal handler to make false statements or representations on these forms to secure disability accommodations.

Breed Restrictions: The Department proposes to continue prohibiting airlines from imposing breed and other categorical restrictions on service animals. In the NPRM, the Department proposes explicit language that states that airlines are not permitted to refuse to transport service animals based on breed.
——-


Self reporting of behavior and training is allowed. Federal crime to make false statements.

Seems like all the emotional support dogs will simply move over into the category of Service Animal. There will be a lot of self reporting liars.

There needs to be certified training standards and proof of the animal’s passing.

There absolutely needs to be breed restriction especially while loop holes exist.

But... a good start!


It should also be fully based on the ADA, not a nother modified version that allows cheating & playing the system.
The ADA should also be upgraded to require you to carry a government issued certification card.
And before anyone tries the hardship argument. Most people that have service animals have to have their ID, & Medical cards with them. So a card for the dog that you receive when you are presented your Service Animal is not a hardship.
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:12 am

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


OK have to say based on word actions. If you have to justify your statement with "technically legit. Then you know it is 100% not legit.

However if the dog fits under seat I could see $50 as you noted. $250+ that my friend was charged is to high.
 
rbavfan
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:15 am

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


OK have to say based on word actions. If you have to justify your statement with "technically legit. Then you know it is 100% not legit.

However if the dog fits under seat I could see $50 as you noted. $250+ that my friend was charged is to high.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:40 am

airbazar wrote:
mia wrote:
Airlines would not be allowed to request prior notification. However, they can require owners to check in earlier. Whats to stop me from showing up with my dog in a carrier at the gate and telling the attendant its my service animal?

Exactly.
I have no problem with emotional support animals, any animal. The problem is lack of oversight over those animals. How can anyone at the airport validate whether the dog is an emotional support animal? They can't.

You need to present the airline with documentation from your health professional. Since it's become a problem, some airlines require you even submit shit records and other documentation. At Southwest it's only if your documentation provides information the airline deems necessary.
When wasn't America great?


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