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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:08 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Since it's become a problem, some airlines require you even submit shit records and other documentation.


How do you even do that? Like maybe there is a way you can set your fitbit to log when you are walking your dog and it stops for more than a few seconds?

I do get why that is important though. Dogs that are not shitted regularly will likely not perform well in a stressful, strange environment.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
questions
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:26 am

rbavfan wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:

Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?


Because they are getting rude comments about their trained service animals or denied entry. They & people with real service dogs have also had some of the service animals attacked by by an ESA that never had temperance training. An ESA that bites, barks & attacks. THen had their dogs put down from injuries due to the fact they are trained NOT to fight.


However the rules allow for self-reporting that service dogs are trained. While a federal crime to falsify, I can easily see this being a loophole for lying pet owners — i.e., formerly faked emotional support dogs simply become service dogs.

The rules need to be tightened more. The dogs need to be trained by certified programs, pass the program and carry a service dog license. Otherwise we’ll just see a bunch of pets with bogus, internet-issued “service dog” certificates and “official” “I’m Working” vests.

From the DOT:

Documentation: Airlines would be permitted to require passengers with a disability traveling with a service animal to complete and submit to the airline the following forms developed by DOT as a condition of transportation: (1) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Health Form, to be completed by a veterinarian in order to certify the animal’s good health; (2) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Air Transportation Behavior and Training Attestation Form, to be completed by the service animal handler in order to attest to the animal’s good behavior; and (3) U.S. Department of Transportation Service Animal Relief Attestation, to be completed by the service animal handler when traveling with a service animal on a flight eight hours or longer in order to verify that the animal has the ability to either not relieve itself, or can relieve itself in a sanitary manner. Under the Department’s proposal, these three documents would be the only documents that an airline could require from an individual with a disability traveling with a service animal. The DOT forms would include a warning that it would be a Federal crime for a service animal handler to make false statements or representations on these forms to secure disability accommodations.

If you haven’t done so all ready, complete the DOT’s public comments request. It’s easy and only takes a couple of minutes. Link in post #25.
 
hpff
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:33 am

Just looked at American's pet regulations, which seem fair. $125 to carry on an animal is a bit steep, but space is limited.

As a non-pet owner are the people who falsely register their animals as service animals just trying to avoid paying a charge for transporting an animal or finding a way to carry on animals that aren't dogs or cats?
 
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zeke
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:53 am

airbazar wrote:
Exactly.
I have no problem with emotional support animals, any animal. The problem is lack of oversight over those animals. How can anyone at the airport validate whether the dog is an emotional support animal? They can't.


They could hug the animal to see if they feel better, if not shoot it and see if they feel better.

The concept is a joke. First work out how to register them as trained animals, then pass this law.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
questions
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:11 am

hpff wrote:
Just looked at American's pet regulations, which seem fair. $125 to carry on an animal is a bit steep, but space is limited.

As a non-pet owner are the people who falsely register their animals as service animals just trying to avoid paying a charge for transporting an animal or finding a way to carry on animals that aren't dogs or cats?


The abuse was (mostly) with Emotional Support Animals vs Service Animals.

1) Yes. Pet owners were trying to avoid the $125 fee.
2) Yes. Pet owners tried to bring along any creature they wanted to.

These “I’m special” passengers were abusing laws, regulations, policies and guidelines put in place for those who really do need the assistance of a Service Animal.
 
airhansa
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:55 am

Dogs are well domesticated and easy to train to do a variety of things. In fact a lot of breeds are simply born into certain roles to the point their instincts are to do the job. Other animals aren't as well domesticated nor easy to train and hence may not be as reliable on the plane.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:24 am

a closer look needed. It's ridiculous.

If you go online, you can sign your pet up in three easy steps. to get the certificate to be either an emotional support animal or therapy pet. It cost 80.00 bucks. One plane I was on, the gate agent told me she had 2 pets in the cabin, one service animal and 3 emotional support animals the 3 support animals belonged to one lady and they were three cats. She told me she wasn't allowed to challenge any of it. She couldn't even call a CRO.
 
tommy1808
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:43 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Well done if it comes into law, and well overdue. Common sense is making a come back.


The limitation to dogs isn't really "common sense" though, there are more trained service animals then dogs...

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
ltbewr
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:44 am

A lot of those abusing the ESA rules are doing so as too attached to protecting their pet, don't want to pay the high fees to be transported as cargo, don't trust airlines to properly handle their pet, and airlines won't transport pet animals at certain times of the year, in particular in the hot summer months. I suspect the commentary on this proposed rule to the DoT and to Congress members will be overwhelmingly against the proposal and the final rule will be watered down.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:31 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it

Well, when your dog craps and pisses on the carpet, when your dog chews on the seats, when your dog hair gets into the A/C system and shortens life expectancy of filters, when the plane requires additional cleaning because of pet allergies, etc., your $125 each way is not even going to start covering up the additional cost.
The passenger area of an aircraft is not made for pets to travel; plain and simple.

You have the right to travel with your pet (by following the airline's rules); I also have the right to not be bothered by your pet, its smell, its hair, etc.
It's a fine line to walk; people have abused it, airlines have been cracking down on it, the government is backing them up. 'Bout time.
 
usflyguy
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm

rbavfan wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


OK have to say based on word actions. If you have to justify your statement with "technically legit. Then you know it is 100% not legit.

However if the dog fits under seat I could see $50 as you noted. $250+ that my friend was charged is to high.


The cost of cleaning up after pets, vouchers and refunds that are given to passengers on flights in which dogs bark the entire time or cause other issues for passenger comfort have to come from somewhere...

And if you don’t like the cost of flying your pet, drive or leave the pet at home.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
airbazar
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:47 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
great this will lead to increased revenue as people will have to pay the pet fee now instead of calling everything a ESA

Bingo! That's exactly what this is about. More money for the airlines.
They will still be allowed to bring whatever pet they want as long a it fits under the seat in front, but they will have to pay for it.
bravotango75 wrote:
This is an outrage, how dare the DoT not allow me to travel with my Support Python, they'll hear for my lawyers...

You can still travel with your python. You'll just have to pay $150 for it.
questions wrote:
The abuse was (mostly) with Emotional Support Animals vs Service Animals.
1) Yes. Pet owners were trying to avoid the $125 fee.
2) Yes. Pet owners tried to bring along any creature they wanted to.


3) Airlines keep killing pets.
 
889091
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:55 pm

This is unfortunately the world we are living in at the moment - Me! Me! Me!

What if the animal defecates in the cabin? Would the owner even clean the mess up? Even if they are willing to do so, with the tight turnaround times at the gate nowadays, it may not be possible, or they delay the following flight.

If someone is so emotionally stressed that they need their pet in the cabin, and if their destination is not separated by vast oceans, then drive! Simple.

Spock summed it up perfectly, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"..
 
airbazar
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:58 pm

889091 wrote:
If someone is so emotionally stressed that they need their pet in the cabin, and if their destination is not separated by vast oceans, then drive! Simple.

Spock summed it up perfectly, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"..


Air travel is not a right, and that goes both ways. If a passenger doesn't like sharing a plane with a pet, they can drive.
 
RL757PVD
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:01 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it

Well, when your dog craps and pisses on the carpet, when your dog chews on the seats, when your dog hair gets into the A/C system and shortens life expectancy of filters, when the plane requires additional cleaning because of pet allergies, etc., your $125 each way is not even going to start covering up the additional cost.
The passenger area of an aircraft is not made for pets to travel; plain and simple.

You have the right to travel with your pet (by following the airline's rules); I also have the right to not be bothered by your pet, its smell, its hair, etc.
It's a fine line to walk; people have abused it, airlines have been cracking down on it, the government is backing them up. 'Bout time.


In 500,000 miles flown I’ve never seen anything remotely of what you described. Some of these stories get blown out of proportion in the media.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
WayexTDI
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:18 pm

RL757PVD wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it

Well, when your dog craps and pisses on the carpet, when your dog chews on the seats, when your dog hair gets into the A/C system and shortens life expectancy of filters, when the plane requires additional cleaning because of pet allergies, etc., your $125 each way is not even going to start covering up the additional cost.
The passenger area of an aircraft is not made for pets to travel; plain and simple.

You have the right to travel with your pet (by following the airline's rules); I also have the right to not be bothered by your pet, its smell, its hair, etc.
It's a fine line to walk; people have abused it, airlines have been cracking down on it, the government is backing them up. 'Bout time.


In 500,000 miles flown I’ve never seen anything remotely of what you described. Some of these stories get blown out of proportion in the media.

Because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it can't (and doesn't) happen.
Pets relieves themselves, that's a fact.
A lot of pets chew on furniture, that's a fact.
Pet hair clog A/C ducts and filters, that's a fact.
A lot of people have allergies to dander (skin flakes that come off the main body of an animal), that's a fact.
Cleaning/fixing all that damage will cost much more than $125, fact again.
 
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enilria
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:24 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
Wonderful news for air travellers:

The US Department of Transportation announced today that it would be banning all emotional support animals other than specially trained dogs.

Airlines will also be able to require that ESA's remain on a leash or harness, and fit in the area under the seat.

Here's a link to an article with more information:

http://www.startribune.com/us-seeks-to- ... 567197072/

There is a 60 day comment period, but unless significant opposition emerges - which is unlikely, because groups representing both military veterans and flight attendants STRONGLY support the rule change - the law could be in effect by April.

It's not like they waited 10 years too long on this...what about the much-maligned miniature horses? I think Delta allowed them and dogs!
 
travelsonic
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:27 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
Pets relieves themselves, that's a fact.
...
A lot of pets chew on furniture, that's a fact.


But how much of that is down to training of said animal, and (in the case of relieving themselves) preparation before travel?
 
WayexTDI
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:33 pm

travelsonic wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Pets relieves themselves, that's a fact.
...
A lot of pets chew on furniture, that's a fact.


But how much of that is down to training of said animal, and (in the case of relieving themselves) preparation before travel?

Pretty much 100%.
But it doesn't matter to the traveling public or the airline: if there is damage done, the $125 each way the airlines charge for pets will not cover the repair cost of the damage.

It's called "common sense"; and that has flown out of the door years ago (as proven by people trying to take hawks/falcons, peacocks, etc as ESA).
 
sldispatcher
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:13 pm

Great news!

If a person can’t travel without an animal for a few hours, I don’t want them on a tube at 30,000 feet.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:38 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Since it's become a problem, some airlines require you even submit shit records and other documentation.


How do you even do that? Like maybe there is a way you can set your fitbit to log when you are walking your dog and it stops for more than a few seconds?

I do get why that is important though. Dogs that are not shitted regularly will likely not perform well in a stressful, strange environment.

Totally meant shot record lol
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:48 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Since it's become a problem, some airlines require you even submit shit records and other documentation.


How do you even do that? Like maybe there is a way you can set your fitbit to log when you are walking your dog and it stops for more than a few seconds?

I do get why that is important though. Dogs that are not shitted regularly will likely not perform well in a stressful, strange environment.

Totally meant shot record lol

Funny what typos or autocorrect can lead to; cause asking for sh!t records makes for a much more interesting convo than shot records, lol.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:22 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:

How do you even do that? Like maybe there is a way you can set your fitbit to log when you are walking your dog and it stops for more than a few seconds?

I do get why that is important though. Dogs that are not shitted regularly will likely not perform well in a stressful, strange environment.

Totally meant shot record lol

Funny what typos or autocorrect can lead to; cause asking for sh!t records makes for a much more interesting convo than shot records, lol.

Now i hope someone reads it and sends their dogs stool sample to an airline! :rotfl:
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:01 pm

Bout time to see this ESA non-sense addressed. I've been on too many flights where the person next to me has an ESA that growls at or licks me during a trasncon not to mention encroaching on my sapce. If people really are so stressed out they have to travel with an ESA, they really shouldn't be flying to begin with. Flying/airports/security/parking is quite stressful even on good days.

This is also good news for people with legitimate service animals. I'm sure they're tired of being unfairly lumped in with the cheapskate FESA (fake ESA) people.

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Dogs that are not shitted regularly will likely not perform well in a stressful, strange environment.


This had me LOLlering.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
wrongwayup
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:37 pm

Just call "ESAs" what they really are - pets - and let the airlines decide. I am more likely to fly an airline with a no pets in the cabin policy than one without.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:45 pm

airbazar wrote:
Air travel is not a right, and that goes both ways. If a passenger doesn't like sharing a plane with a pet, they can drive.

Thought it was worth repeating, just in case anybody missed it the first time. :banghead:


I suggest we put it to a vote; it shouldn't take too long to work out that the 98 people travelling without a pet are entitled to more consideration than the 2 selfish pet owners.

Why do pet owners feel so strongly about this? It's not hard to work out; they consider their pet as part of the family, their offspring, their child.
Even to the extent that faced with an oncoming truck in the middle of the road, they would steer left to avoid their pet, and instead run over someone else's child.

In plane terms (!), would you consider putting your child in a cage, in the cargo hold? That is the mind-set, and rational thought simply doesn't enter the equation.

I know several such pet owners, and speak as someone who themselves wept buckets when their cat died. The difference is that even in my grief, I knew when to draw the line.

My fear is that as with the well-organised gun lobby, various pet agencies will conspire to flood the DoT with negative responses.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
vegas005
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:38 pm

Interesting how we don't have this bullcrap in Europe. Millions of people fly just fine without the support of some dog, horse, lizard or whatever the flavor of the day is ...
 
ikramerica
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:48 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


Having a diagnosed mental illness doesn't necessarily mean that your pet brings you relief of your symptoms. And if your condition is relieved by an animal, get a trained service dog.

Thats the absurdity. Maybe the turkey makes you feel less anxious, but wouldn’t a small dog work as well? Why did the patient make the conscious CHOICE to adopt a turkey instead of training a small dog? As a landlord I am well aware that you can’t prevent an ES dog, so there are no barriers to getting a dog other than choice.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:12 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Well done if it comes into law, and well overdue. Common sense is making a come back.


The limitation to dogs isn't really "common sense" though, there are more trained service animals then dogs...

Best regards
Thomas

My meaning was that common sense was coming back to the whole situation that has grown within the airline business.
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steeler83
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Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:26 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Well done if it comes into law, and well overdue. Common sense is making a come back.

Indeed it is. I saw this posted on the local news out of Philly. People claiming they have peacocks and snakes and the like as their emotional support animals was getting out of hand.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
sircygnus
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:04 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Well, when your dog craps and pisses on the carpet, when your dog chews on the seats, when your dog hair gets into the A/C system and shortens life expectancy of filters, when the plane requires additional cleaning because of pet allergies, etc., your $125 each way is not even going to start covering up the additional cost.
The passenger area of an aircraft is not made for pets to travel; plain and simple.

You have the right to travel with your pet (by following the airline's rules); I also have the right to not be bothered by your pet, its smell, its hair, etc.
It's a fine line to walk; people have abused it, airlines have been cracking down on it, the government is backing them up. 'Bout time.


In 500,000 miles flown I’ve never seen anything remotely of what you described. Some of these stories get blown out of proportion in the media.

Because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it can't (and doesn't) happen.
Pets relieves themselves, that's a fact.
A lot of pets chew on furniture, that's a fact.
Pet hair clog A/C ducts and filters, that's a fact.
A lot of people have allergies to dander (skin flakes that come off the main body of an animal), that's a fact.
Cleaning/fixing all that damage will cost much more than $125, fact again.


I’ve heard more stories about poor behavior by humans on flights than of misbehaving animals. Heck there are entire websites devoted to shaming these very passengers. Everything you say is true, of course it can happen, just think you might be blowing this out of proportion a bit.
 
Nicoeddf
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:09 pm

Says all you need to know about the US, that you need regulation for that...
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WA707atMSP
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:36 pm

One of the ugliest episodes of "dogs behaving badly" took place at PDX in December, 2017. A five year old girl asked permission to pet a fake ESA dog. After the dog's family said yes, the ensuing attack required her to have 37 stitches to her face, and left her scarred for life, both physically and emotionally. The girl's family has filed multi million dollar lawsuits against PDX and Alaska Airlines; hopefully, her family is also suing the dog's family, and whoever signed off on the fake ESA documentation.

I've seen a lot of poorly behaved humans, but if a human attacked an innocent 5 year old, and left her with 37 stitches, he'd be in jail for the rest of his life. This is why the fake ESA scam MUST end!
 
WayexTDI
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Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:18 pm

sircygnus wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:

In 500,000 miles flown I’ve never seen anything remotely of what you described. Some of these stories get blown out of proportion in the media.

Because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it can't (and doesn't) happen.
Pets relieves themselves, that's a fact.
A lot of pets chew on furniture, that's a fact.
Pet hair clog A/C ducts and filters, that's a fact.
A lot of people have allergies to dander (skin flakes that come off the main body of an animal), that's a fact.
Cleaning/fixing all that damage will cost much more than $125, fact again.


I’ve heard more stories about poor behavior by humans on flights than of misbehaving animals. Heck there are entire websites devoted to shaming these very passengers. Everything you say is true, of course it can happen, just think you might be blowing this out of proportion a bit.

Unruly humans are handled accordingly: reminded of their obligations, restrained and handed over to authorities once landed as needed.
Unruly dogs/cats/pets are handled... How? You cannot sermon them, restraining them might expose you to harm (from the pet itself or from the potentially mentally-unbalanced pet owner - and I say mentally-unbalanced on purpose for the ones who claimed they needed their ESA in the first place).

It's a lose-lose situation for the airlines.
Some travelers feel they need to bring their pets with them, it's their right (pending airlines' approval); some travelers feel they don't want to be bothered by the slobbering dog next to them (I am one of them), it's their right too.
Remember: your liberty ends where mine begins.

People keep forgetting that airlines are private business; and, as such, they can restrict access to humans only (unless the animal is protected by law).
If you don't like the airline's practice, feel free to use another airline, or another mean of transportation altogether.
 
Thunderbolt500
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:11 pm

I guess I can't bring my pet cat.
 
EAARbrat
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:39 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:20 am

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


BRAVO!

This started with the airlines moving from a reasonable $50 each way (10-15 years ago) for small dogs in cabin to $150+ each way now. This greed created their customers genius response. Had they stuck with the reasonable fee they would have made money and we wouldn't be where we are today.
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dstblj52
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:39 am

EAARbrat wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.

American is going to loose out on about $10,000 per year in business from me if they change it


BRAVO!

This started with the airlines moving from a reasonable $50 each way (10-15 years ago) for small dogs in cabin to $150+ each way now. This greed created their customers genius response. Had they stuck with the reasonable fee they would have made money and we wouldn't be where we are today.

What do you think the cost of an airplane sitting on the ground for an hour because a dog pooped is going to cost the airline unless your willing to pay the bill if you cause it, they need to take the rate if incidents and their cost and pass it in to each person who brings a animal onboard.
 
EAARbrat
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:39 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:46 am

dstblj52 wrote:
What do you think the cost of an airplane sitting on the ground for an hour because a dog pooped is going to cost the airline unless your willing to pay the bill if you cause it, they need to take the rate if incidents and their cost and pass it in to each person who brings a animal onboard.


I think had the airlines not started down the greed road the volume of ESAs would never be where it is today. Not to mention at $50-75 each way atleast they would be making something rather than getting a big fat $0 revenue.

Simple cause and effect.
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User avatar
aeromoe
Posts: 1344
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:34 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:34 am

Yes please.
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OB1504
Posts: 3987
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:55 am

nycbjr wrote:
wouldn't this violate the disabilities act? Mental illness is a recognized disability, seems not allowing ESA's would violate that. I guess the DOT/FAA can super cede it.

now I agree the system as it stands today needs amending its a joke!


Air travel is governed by the Air Carrier Access Act (ACAA), not the ADA. Regardless, the ADA doesn’t recognize nor protect emotional support animals.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:41 pm

EAARbrat wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
What do you think the cost of an airplane sitting on the ground for an hour because a dog pooped is going to cost the airline unless your willing to pay the bill if you cause it, they need to take the rate if incidents and their cost and pass it in to each person who brings a animal onboard.


I think had the airlines not started down the greed road the volume of ESAs would never be where it is today. Not to mention at $50-75 each way atleast they would be making something rather than getting a big fat $0 revenue.

Simple cause and effect.

But then the animal would end up in the hold, and if you read what people say about that I don't think dropping the charge 50 or 75 dollars is going to change that reaction.
 
davescj
Posts: 1287
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:44 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
But then the animal would end up in the hold, and if you read what people say about that I don't think dropping the charge 50 or 75 dollars is going to change that reaction.


Then leave the animal at home. Get a neighbor to feed and water your pet. It was not that long ago when that was normal.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
dstblj52
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:45 pm

davescj wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
But then the animal would end up in the hold, and if you read what people say about that I don't think dropping the charge 50 or 75 dollars is going to change that reaction.


Then leave the animal at home. Get a neighbor to feed and water your pet. It was not that long ago when that was normal.

Not disagreeing, I was merely pointing out that I doubt dropping the fee from 125 to 50 bucks is going to change the number of people fake an ESA that much
 
WA707atMSP
Topic Author
Posts: 1922
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: US DoT bans all Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:58 pm

Today's Wall Street Journal has an opinion article written by a former Marine who served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and has now founded Leashes of Valor, an organization that pairs veterans with expertly trained service dogs. The article says expertly trained service dogs undergo two years of training, and the veterans who are paired with them must undergo sixteen days of training first. The article goes on to explain why airlines should be required to ban pets who haven't been given this level of training. Here's a link:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/phony-serv ... 1580071621

Regardless of how you feel about the Wall Street Journal, it's considered one of the three most influential media organizations in the USA. Hopefully, this article will encourage the government to enact the proposed new rules.

rbavfan wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
WA707atMSP wrote:

Never underestimate the political power of "wounded warriors".

Because veterans' groups are strongly in favor of this bill, people who oppose it will be in conflict with our troops....and political support for our troops is MUCH stronger than it is for selfish people who insist on bringing fake emotional support animals with them.


Why are veteran's groups in favor of this bill?


Because they are getting rude comments about their trained service animals or denied entry. They & people with real service dogs have also had some of the service animals attacked by by an ESA that never had temperance training. An ESA that bites, barks & attacks. THen had their dogs put down from injuries due to the fact they are trained NOT to fight.
 
mia
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:37 pm

hpff wrote:
Just looked at American's pet regulations, which seem fair. $125 to carry on an animal is a bit steep, but space is limited.


In what realm does charging $125 to carry an animal onboard in a case that can fit under the seat in from of you, seem fair? My carry on is free (most airlines), why should I have to pay $125 to carry my animal on board? The emotional support debacle occurred in the context of the airlines' greediness.

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.


Charging $125 to bring a pet in a carrying case in cabin should be illegal, full stop. If they want to make it in line with what bags of similar weight cost, or want to have rules for dogs who arent in a carrying case, OK, but this wholesale charging for animals to travel at outrageous markup is BS and airlines know it.

I would welcome regulation that the animal carrying case is the (1) carry-on allowed. But if someone can bring a rollerbag in the cabin for free , why shouldn't my dog pay the same price?
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1854
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:30 pm

mia wrote:
hpff wrote:
Just looked at American's pet regulations, which seem fair. $125 to carry on an animal is a bit steep, but space is limited.


In what realm does charging $125 to carry an animal onboard in a case that can fit under the seat in from of you, seem fair? My carry on is free (most airlines), why should I have to pay $125 to carry my animal on board? The emotional support debacle occurred in the context of the airlines' greediness.

Cause pets, unlike carry-ons, can pee, poop, degrade the seats and interiors when they escape their case (very common); cause most pets, unlike most carry-ons, carry allergens, shed fur that get sucked into the A/C ducts and clog filters.

mia wrote:
RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.


Charging $125 to bring a pet in a carrying case in cabin should be illegal, full stop. If they want to make it in line with what bags of similar weight cost, or want to have rules for dogs who arent in a carrying case, OK, but this wholesale charging for animals to travel at outrageous markup is BS and airlines know it.

I would welcome regulation that the animal carrying case is the (1) carry-on allowed. But if someone can bring a rollerbag in the cabin for free , why shouldn't my dog pay the same price?

Airlines are private businesses; no one is forcing you to travel by air, there are plenty alternatives available (usually much less convenient, but they do exist). If you don't like airlines pricing structure, feel free to not do business with them.

Prohibiting airlines to charge $125 for pets in cabin would be the government intervening in a private business pricing; that would bring back regulation and no one wants that.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 521
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:34 pm

mia wrote:
hpff wrote:
Just looked at American's pet regulations, which seem fair. $125 to carry on an animal is a bit steep, but space is limited.


In what realm does charging $125 to carry an animal onboard in a case that can fit under the seat in from of you, seem fair? My carry on is free (most airlines), why should I have to pay $125 to carry my animal on board? The emotional support debacle occurred in the context of the airlines' greediness.

RL757PVD wrote:
$125 each way for my dog to travel under the seat in front of me is absurd. I fully admit that I abuse the system though her paper work as an ESA is technically legit.

If it was a few more in line with the actual cost/impact, say like $50, I’d pay every time.


Charging $125 to bring a pet in a carrying case in cabin should be illegal, full stop. If they want to make it in line with what bags of similar weight cost, or want to have rules for dogs who arent in a carrying case, OK, but this wholesale charging for animals to travel at outrageous markup is BS and airlines know it.

I would welcome regulation that the animal carrying case is the (1) carry-on allowed. But if someone can bring a rollerbag in the cabin for free , why shouldn't my dog pay the same price?

How often does a carry on bag poop in a cabin or throw up, or attack someone?
 
art
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:50 pm

I do apologise if this question has already been asked but what is an emotional support animall? Sorry, European so I have not encountered this idea.

PS I note that trained dogs will not be banned. I'm intrigued. I was unaware that dogs were being trained in the art or science of emotional support (whatever that is).
 
WayexTDI
Posts: 1854
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:38 pm

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:35 pm

art wrote:
I do apologise if this question has already been asked but what is an emotional support animall? Sorry, European so I have not encountered this idea.

PS I note that trained dogs will not be banned. I'm intrigued. I was unaware that dogs were being trained in the art or science of emotional support (whatever that is).

Emotional Support Animal (ESA): small pet (cat, dog, peacock, whatever else you see fit) that assist emotionally-unbalanced travelers (the kind who shouldn't be flying in the first place) with their daily lives.
In reality, an excuse for people who cannot live 2 minutes separated from their beloved pets to travel with said pet without restrictions or paying.
 
art
Posts: 3574
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: US DoT Proposes ban on Emotional Support Animals other than trained dogs

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:44 pm

Thanks. That's clarified things - you take some self-respecting pet animal and rebrand it as an ESA because you're an EUT. Love it.

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