ei146
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Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:41 am

Hello all,

Der Spiegel reports, that Condor will hold a press conference today to inform about Condor's future "together with the new owner". Should be interesting.
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
duboka909
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:53 am

Handelsblatt reports that apparently LOT is going to buy Condor. I've didn't even know that they are having the money for a acquisition like that at the moment.

https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehme ... 68692.html
 
devron
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:59 am

Lot interesting they can shift a few 787 can't they because the 767 are getting old.
 
ei146
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:00 am

Yes, looks like all the major German news outlets share the same message: potential buyers are US Investment company Apollo, British investor Greybull, possibly with additional Investors. But according to unnamed insiders it will be LOT. We will see.
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:01 am

duboka909 wrote:
Handelsblatt reports that apparently LOT is going to buy Condor. I've didn't even know that they are having the money for a acquisition like that at the moment.

https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehme ... 68692.html


Wouldn't surprise me, if the price was 1$ plus assumption of liabilities; first and foremost -- repayment of government "Mass loan" that kept Condor flying, plus benefits and pensions of staff (and even that could be a question mark, if these are assumed in full).

duboka909 wrote:
Handelsblatt reports that apparently LOT is going to buy Condor. I've didn't even know that they are having the money for a acquisition like that at the moment.

https://app.handelsblatt.com/unternehme ... 68692.html

Actually, it appears LOT is somewhat short (flyable) WB frames as it is, and is noted leasing in all sorts of widebody airplanes recently, no?
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:07 am

Buying Condor is a rather complicated way of sourcing some widebody aircraft
 
ei146
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:06 am

And it is Polish Aviation Group (PGL), owner of LOT.
Press release here: https://condor-newsroom.condor.com/de/d ... er-condor/
 
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PM
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:10 am

787s for Condor?
 
Williamsb747
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:10 am

Germany and Poland partnering, who would have thought...
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
cityshuttle
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:16 am

It’s officially LOT (PGL) ... now press conference in FRA
 
VSMUT
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Re: Condor: Investor found?

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:37 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Buying Condor is a rather complicated way of sourcing some widebody aircraft


Narrowbody jets too. LOT sure could use some A320s and A321s in place of the missing MAX's.

I for one am glad to see this happening. LOT is slowly growing into a serious player in Europe that can put some pressure on the big incumbents. For once we aren't even talking a low cost carrier who's only method of undercutting is cost.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:40 am

I'm looking forward to see how Condor will now evolve.
 
artflyer
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:03 am

Bad news for Boing. Now LO+Condor have soon to come order for widebodies that is big enough to justify shift of both to Airbus, while keeping economy of scale. Probably one of the reasons for the acquisition.
 
gloom
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:18 am

artflyer wrote:
Bad news for Boing. Now LO+Condor have soon to come order for widebodies that is big enough to justify shift of both to Airbus, while keeping economy of scale. Probably one of the reasons for the acquisition.


I believe this could be both ways. Go with 787, or switch to A330/350. The bad news is LOT (or PGL, if you prefer owners' name) will go with scale, not asking for few, but 20-30 of these within next couple of years.

Cheers,
Adam
 
konkret
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:29 am

How hard will it affect the relationship between Condor and Lufthansa?
Currently LH provides the feed for Condor’s longhaul flights.

Probably LH group will boost Eurowings longhaul flights from FRA/MUC.
 
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Polot
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:50 am

gloom wrote:
artflyer wrote:
Bad news for Boing. Now LO+Condor have soon to come order for widebodies that is big enough to justify shift of both to Airbus, while keeping economy of scale. Probably one of the reasons for the acquisition.


I believe this could be both ways. Go with 787, or switch to A330/350. The bad news is LOT (or PGL, if you prefer owners' name) will go with scale, not asking for few, but 20-30 of these within next couple of years.

Cheers,
Adam

Combine future wide body fleet would most likely be all 787s or split 787/A330. Not sure why LOT would dump their 787s which, everyone needs to remember, they will soon have 17 of (LOT is not the tiny carrier with 4-6 wide bodies anymore) and which is larger than Condor’s 767 fleet. Their issues with the 787 have mostly been because of RR who LOT would have to turn to for the A330/A350 anyways.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:56 am

konkret wrote:
How hard will it affect the relationship between Condor and Lufthansa?
Currently LH provides the feed for Condor’s longhaul flights.

Probably LH group will boost Eurowings longhaul flights from FRA/MUC.


Hard to say. It became obvious that the regulators would not allow the LH group to take over Condor and while the relationship with LOT is not all roses, it would surely benefit both to work together. And the feed can easily be kept going through Star Alliance. Considering the good booking numbers for the coming summer the established partnership with tour operators and now with LOT in control, Condor should be easy to stabilize in its conventional role as a holiday airline.
 
gloom
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:02 pm

Polot wrote:
Not sure why LOT would dump their 787s


There are a couple of reasons why they would.
1. High value for resale.
2. Most of these are leased anyways (I believe just 8 788s are owned; but also on finansial lease; other are on operational lease)
3. Condor was a strong Airbus client; I don't see A dropping towel here

Of course, chances are slim I guess, and expect 787 all the way. But it's not like any of A-B has already won.

Polish press is also citing post-press conference from PGL/LOT. Approx 10+20 WB order was cited as coming soon (whatever soon means).

Cheers,
Adam
 
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Polot
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:12 pm

gloom wrote:
Polot wrote:
Not sure why LOT would dump their 787s


There are a couple of reasons why they would.
1. High value for resale.
2. Most of these are leased anyways (I believe just 8 788s are owned; but also on finansial lease; other are on operational lease)
3. Condor was a strong Airbus client; I don't see A dropping towel here

Of course, chances are slim I guess, and expect 787 all the way. But it's not like any of A-B has already won.

Polish press is also citing post-press conference from PGL/LOT. Approx 10+20 WB order was cited as coming soon (whatever soon means).

Cheers,
Adam

A 30 (including options) WB order suggests no 787s will leave the fleet, as that is about the amount you would expect to replace 15 767s and allowing a little growth at both airlines (assuming 10 of those 30 are options).
 
by738
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:16 pm

gloom wrote:
3. Condor was a strong Airbus client; I don't see A dropping towel here


One airline I wouldn't have immediately labelled as a 'strong Airbus client'
 
gloom
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:19 pm

by738 wrote:
gloom wrote:
3. Condor was a strong Airbus client; I don't see A dropping towel here


One airline I wouldn't have immediately labelled as a 'strong Airbus client'


Well, strong is maybe an overstatement here. Still, their latest aquirements are A321.

Cheers,
Adam
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:42 pm

I didn’t see this one coming. I fully expect the Aviation (former Air Berlin AOC) fleet and Balearics fleet to come to LOT, or at least part of it. I could also see more expansion of Condor in Eastern Europe, especially in Hungary and Poland, as an established leisure brand.

As for fleeting, I see a future with an A320/A321 (including neo) and B788/B789 fleet. This is also a shot across the arrow with the MAX fiasco.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:46 pm

Congrats to PGL and LOT and Condor!
Means PGL will get better discounts from both manufacturers and LOT will easier move the fleet around due to seasonal fluctuations. .
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319 320 321 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
NG263
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:29 pm

gloom wrote:
Polot wrote:
Not sure why LOT would dump their 787s


There are a couple of reasons why they would.
1. High value for resale.
2. Most of these are leased anyways (I believe just 8 788s are owned; but also on finansial lease; other are on operational lease)
3. Condor was a strong Airbus client; I don't see A dropping towel here

Of course, chances are slim I guess, and expect 787 all the way. But it's not like any of A-B has already won.

Polish press is also citing post-press conference from PGL/LOT. Approx 10+20 WB order was cited as coming soon (whatever soon means).

Cheers,
Adam



Condor might be a strong Boeing client, but not a strong Airbus client. The fleet has been ever since dominated by American aircraft. The newest memebers, the 321's, were acquired through TC, which determined this aircraft type as the preferred one for the whole group.


Also moving completely from one aircraft type to another has been really bad for airlines before, e.g. airberlin from the 737 to A320. I see no point in LOT moving away from the 787's.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:37 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I didn’t see this one coming. I fully expect the Aviation (former Air Berlin AOC) fleet and Balearics fleet to come to LOT, or at least part of it. I could also see more expansion of Condor in Eastern Europe, especially in Hungary and Poland, as an established leisure brand.

As for fleeting, I see a future with an A320/A321 (including neo) and B788/B789 fleet. This is also a shot across the arrow with the MAX fiasco.


Many of the A320 CEO's are from 1998.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
WIederling
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:39 pm

gloom wrote:
2. Most of these are leased anyways (I believe just 8 788s are owned; but also on finansial lease; other are on operational lease)


8 788 ( 5 frames with SN below 100 ( 61..87 ) i.e. "fat kids")
7 789

would it be a good idea to drop the early 788 frames ( eventually) ?
A338 should outperform those easily.
Murphy is an optimist
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:47 pm

PGL will be making a widebody purchase in the coming months for 30aircraft, 10 are to go to LOT and 20 to Condor.

https://www.pasazer.com/mobi/news/43167 ... ndora.html
LO LH CL BA AZ WN UA DL AA B6 NK G4
717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 788 319 320 321 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E7/95 (PA28,152)
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:27 pm

Quite a symbolic move given the history of the motherlands of the two countries. Way to go Poland! And to Germany!
 
oschkosch
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:44 pm

impressive move by LOT! I see Condor becoming closer to Star Alliance, they are already a partner.

I think it is way too early to tell if this means Boeing or Airbus get an upper hand.
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Gdabski
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:57 pm

Just be aware this is basically taxpayer's money that is used to make this purchase, not any profit money LOT has ever made. I'm afraid it's another action whose main (or at least important) goal is domestic propaganda (look, we're buying a German airline, Poland is rising from it knees and prospers, we're now big and important in Europe! - sadly, this appears politically effective here) not true economic calculation. PGL was created in 2017 with a very misty plan to invest in the airline industry and has since failed to make any use of its capital. Acquisition of Condor came as a sudden possibility and they likely jumped on without a proper strategy to follow.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:03 pm

So when does the Polish Government privatise LOT and LH take the lot over?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
AaronPGH
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:28 pm

Crossing fingers for a more formal tie-up with Star Alliance... probably wishful thinking.
 
kanye
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:29 pm

Gdabski wrote:
Just be aware this is basically taxpayer's money that is used to make this purchase, not any profit money LOT has ever made. I'm afraid it's another action whose main (or at least important) goal is domestic propaganda (look, we're buying a German airline, Poland is rising from it knees and prospers, we're now big and important in Europe! - sadly, this appears politically effective here) not true economic calculation. PGL was created in 2017 with a very misty plan to invest in the airline industry and has since failed to make any use of its capital. Acquisition of Condor came as a sudden possibility and they likely jumped on without a proper strategy to follow.




Exactly my thought as well. I can’t see any other reason than this for LOT to own a German charter airline.
What are they actually paying for Condor?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:37 pm

well they are taking over a PROFITABLE operation..... I wonder how much $$$ will end up in Thomas Cook's coffers since they legally owned 49% of Condor....
xx
 
thesaladdays
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:48 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
Germany and Poland partnering, who would have thought...


TYWoolman wrote:
Quite a symbolic move given the history of the motherlands of the two countries. Way to go Poland! And to Germany!


Obviously there was a catastrophic period in relations that, thankfully, ended about 75 years ago (and long may there be peace) but I'm quite surprised this sort of thinking is still present today.

Despite the idiotic and pointless political rhetoric that sometimes takes place, and the fact that some in both countries will always blame the other for whatever, with some level of legitimate reason or not, the fact is the two countries trade at significant levels. There is more investment in Poland from Germany than from any other country (this started in the 90s and really took off after Poland joined the EU in 2004) and that's happening in the other direction as well. There are well-established Germany companies in Poland and well-established Polish companies in Germany.

Poland is Germany's 8th largest export market and 6th largest import market. Meanwhile Poland has gone from economic basket case in the 1980s to being the EU's 7th largest economy, though on a per-capita basis there's still a long way to go to catch up with western Europe.

So while I'm also surprised by this announcement, I'm not surprised by Polish-Germany economic cooperation in the least.
 
thesaladdays
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:59 pm

Gdabski wrote:
Just be aware this is basically taxpayer's money that is used to make this purchase, not any profit money LOT has ever made. I'm afraid it's another action whose main (or at least important) goal is domestic propaganda (look, we're buying a German airline, Poland is rising from it knees and prospers, we're now big and important in Europe! - sadly, this appears politically effective here) not true economic calculation. PGL was created in 2017 with a very misty plan to invest in the airline industry and has since failed to make any use of its capital. Acquisition of Condor came as a sudden possibility and they likely jumped on without a proper strategy to follow.


I really hope that's not true, if this was done for political reasons rather than economic strategy then that would be hugely disappointing.
 
danipawa
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:30 pm

Maybe 10 8 and 10 9 for Condor and a new paint for the brand.,,
 
SueD
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:45 pm

Plenty of comments from others re LOT as the operator, however I have more concerns re ANYTHING that involves the wolves of Greybull - asset strippers a specialty !

IMHO opinion watch the business deteriorate and follow Monarch into oblivion over the next 18 months
 
mxaxai
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:52 pm

SueD wrote:
Plenty of comments from others re LOT as the operator, however I have more concerns re ANYTHING that involves the wolves of Greybull - asset strippers a specialty !

IMHO opinion watch the business deteriorate and follow Monarch into oblivion over the next 18 months

Greybull is not involved in this, or are they part of LOT / PGL?
 
_AA_777_MAN
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:58 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Congrats to PGL and LOT and Condor!
Means PGL will get better discounts from both manufacturers and LOT will easier move the fleet around due to seasonal fluctuations. .



Yes! Let's hope so!
 
Runway28L
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:07 pm

767s at Condor now expected to be phased out starting in 2024.

"During a press briefing today, Polska Grupz Lotnicza’s chief executive Rafal Milczarski – who also heads subsidiary LOT – said that the Condor fleet renewal will begin by 2024 and that the German leisure carrier would require 'at least' 20 aircraft for its long-haul operation."

"Polish flag carrier LOT previously operated 767s but has replaced them with 787s. However, Milczarski suggests that PGL may look beyond the 787 for Condor and, indeed, for growth of LOT’s fleet."

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/l ... 58.article
 
Blerg
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:40 pm

What are Condor's costs like compared to LO? If contracts are less favorable maybe we could see the brand slowly replace LO's in Budapest?
 
marcogr12
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:36 pm

While everyone is talking about the longhaul fleet,what will happen to Condor's 753 fleet which serve short-to-medium haul routes with a pax capacity of 280?Will they go for A321Neo LR? They will also have to replace the A320 fleet at some point..I dont see them going for MAX given the ongoing saga "to fly or not to fly.."
Flying is breathing..no planes no life..
 
YIMBY
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:03 pm

AaronPGH wrote:
Crossing fingers for a more formal tie-up with Star Alliance... probably wishful thinking.


I would rather see them tying up with SkyTeam or OneWorld, as Star Alliance is already quite saturated in those regions. That might give LOT a push to enter more on the German markets, today quite dominated by Lufthansa group.
 
by738
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:16 pm

Oneworld? No.
 
terefere
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:31 pm

Blerg wrote:
What are Condor's costs like compared to LO? If contracts are less favorable maybe we could see the brand slowly replace LO's in Budapest?


This is pure speculation, but my guess is, LO has lower personnel costs, while Condor, with an older fleet (does it own or lease its aircraft?) likely has a lower cost of leasing its fleet. Other operational costs - no idea.
 
Danny
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:50 pm

thesaladdays wrote:
Gdabski wrote:
Just be aware this is basically taxpayer's money that is used to make this purchase, not any profit money LOT has ever made. I'm afraid it's another action whose main (or at least important) goal is domestic propaganda (look, we're buying a German airline, Poland is rising from it knees and prospers, we're now big and important in Europe! - sadly, this appears politically effective here) not true economic calculation. PGL was created in 2017 with a very misty plan to invest in the airline industry and has since failed to make any use of its capital. Acquisition of Condor came as a sudden possibility and they likely jumped on without a proper strategy to follow.


I really hope that's not true, if this was done for political reasons rather than economic strategy then that would be hugely disappointing.



It is true - taxpayers money used for political propaganda. Gdabski is 100% correct.
 
kanye
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:59 pm

terefere wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What are Condor's costs like compared to LO? If contracts are less favorable maybe we could see the brand slowly replace LO's in Budapest?


This is pure speculation, but my guess is, LO has lower personnel costs, while Condor, with an older fleet (does it own or lease its aircraft?) likely has a lower cost of leasing its fleet. Other operational costs - no idea.



Googled a little bit and seems like LOTs flight crews are significantly cheaper than Condors.
 
artflyer
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I didn’t see this one coming. I fully expect the Aviation (former Air Berlin AOC) fleet and Balearics fleet to come to LOT, or at least part of it. I could also see more expansion of Condor in Eastern Europe, especially in Hungary and Poland, as an established leisure brand.

As for fleeting, I see a future with an A320/A321 (including neo) and B788/B789 fleet. This is also a shot across the arrow with the MAX fiasco.


Condor as a brand is unknown in Poland, so while I don't expect LO to adopt a different brand for leisure operations in Central/Eastern Europe, the advantage of the brand is fairly limited here. I would also expect any leisure operations in Poland to be limited - at least initially - to long haul as in other segments LO/Condor would have a huge entrenched competition from ENT (27 x B737, operating at much higher margins than LO).

So I could imagine one day we will see Condor flying from Poland to BKK or HAN. Whether it will be from WAW is a very different story.
Last edited by artflyer on Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
artflyer
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Re: Updated: PGL (LOT) Selected as Strategic Investor for Condor

Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:19 pm

kanye wrote:
terefere wrote:
Blerg wrote:
What are Condor's costs like compared to LO? If contracts are less favorable maybe we could see the brand slowly replace LO's in Budapest?


This is pure speculation, but my guess is, LO has lower personnel costs, while Condor, with an older fleet (does it own or lease its aircraft?) likely has a lower cost of leasing its fleet. Other operational costs - no idea.



Googled a little bit and seems like LOTs flight crews are significantly cheaper than Condors.


I don't think there is an option at all that LO's brand would be replaced by Condor in Hungary. LO's publicly declared aim is to become first choice carrier for that part of Europe.

I think one of the reasons behind an acquisition (apart from the fact that LO for a long time was mentioning entering a leisure segment and I think they are more after lh leisure operations than sh) is that Condor needs replacement for its fleet. I would expect LO's leasing costs must be pretty high, especially for wb. And this is not only because the fleet is very new, but because, apart from initial 8 B788, all other wb were leased in small batches from different lessors. This was to an extent understandible as it was happening as the company grew and only subject to that growth actually happening, but I would expect financial terms could have been better. Their plan from 2015 was to have 16 wb in 2020, they have done it, but now its a good time to work on lowering leasing costs by way of making one bigger order (Condor including).

Other than that I would expect LO's costs to be lower.

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