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SEPilot
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:10 am

alyusuph wrote:
What a massive aircraft! I think Boeing should also come up with a B773ER NEO for the airlines which would not want to purchase the 778 or 77X

No can do. The GE9X engine only has 105,000 lb thrust, the 77W requires 115,000.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020 at 10am (weather permitting)

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:13 am

CALTECH wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
CALTECH wrote:

How else, would it lift off ?


:rotfl:

Right! All four bogies are main gear.


IIRC, the ' training wheels ' lift off first...... :rotfl:


As the wings generate lift you're probably right. Haven't watched any videos lately.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
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aeromoe
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:15 am

DUSdude wrote:
I caught her when she passed behind my house on approach to BFI at the end of the flight.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mvk116/shares/VBA7v6

Not sure if any of these pass must for upload to a-net. I normally stick to photographing the feathered kind of birds. ;-)

M


Where do you do bird photography? I'm big time into feathered bird photography.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 am

SEPilot wrote:
alyusuph wrote:
What a massive aircraft! I think Boeing should also come up with a B773ER NEO for the airlines which would not want to purchase the 778 or 77X

No can do. The GE9X engine only has 105,000 lb thrust, the 77W requires 115,000.


GE9X has plenty of head room for more thrust, it beat the GE90’s record of being the most powerful turbofan engine in the world. It’s a bigger engine in every way and would have no issue putting out 115k. Boeing won’t do a reengineering 77W It’s pointless with the 779 in play. Only reason it’s rated for 105k is because the 777X needs less thrust with that big wing.
 
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bikerthai
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:35 pm

WIederling wrote:
Wingskins are made from multiple machined flat sheets that are thermally creep formed in an oven/autoclave to conform to the wing surface shape. Then processed to a single part each ( top, bottom )


Do you have a better video, or presentation showing the A380 wing skin construction? The video link you provided just show them machining the skin then heat/treat/heat form the skin in an oven. There was no obvious laminating/bonding operation. Typical laminating/bonding operation requires chemical treatment and primer coat (for better bonding). Doesn't make sense to have multiple layers of the same metal material bonded together for the skin because the lamination (bond line) would be the weak link. I can see if it's Glare where the external laminate act as a corrosion barrier.

The only lamination that I could imagine on any aluminum wing skin would be the thin clad material on the outer surface for corrosion protection.

bt
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
estorilm
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:49 pm

I'm kinda disappointed in the looks department - especially with the engines for some reason. The pylon looks amazing, but the cowl looked better off the plane for some reason - the metal inlet cowl part is just MASSIVE and the entire thickness of the cowl makes it seem "fat" - kinda like having a massive LCD TV that's ruined by a huge bezel?

Also I didn't realize how subconsciously "old" the 777 nose looks, even with a brilliant livery, new wings, new engines... but wow, you look at those windows and shape and just think "oh, that's an older plane".

Just some observations - can't wait to see it in person with those long wings, glad Boeing has some good news as well.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:02 pm

estorilm wrote:
Also I didn't realize how subconsciously "old" the 777 nose looks, even with a brilliant livery, new wings, new engines... but wow, you look at those windows and shape and just think "oh, that's an older plane".


Well it is the same as the 767, so it actually is old. :old: :biggrin:
 
Elementalism
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:11 pm

SEPilot wrote:
alyusuph wrote:
What a massive aircraft! I think Boeing should also come up with a B773ER NEO for the airlines which would not want to purchase the 778 or 77X

No can do. The GE9X engine only has 105,000 lb thrust, the 77W requires 115,000.


GE9X has been pushed to 134,000lbs. But the question is why would an airline want to go with an old wing with a new engine when it can have a new wing and new engine? The -9 is basically a 777-300ER that is more efficient.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Elementalism wrote:
GE9X has been pushed to 134,000lbs. But the question is why would an airline want to go with an old wing with a new engine when it can have a new wing and new engine? The -9 is basically a 777-300ER that is more efficient.

And it has systems upgrades based on 787 tech designed to save money on maintenance. The only reason to buy the last generation stuff is it is being priced cheaply to keep the line going. That gravy train should end in a year or so.
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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dampfnudel
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:20 pm

I’m glad Boeing finally had something good to share with us after a crappy year. It’s a nice looking aircraft.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
Elementalism
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:59 am

Revelation wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
GE9X has been pushed to 134,000lbs. But the question is why would an airline want to go with an old wing with a new engine when it can have a new wing and new engine? The -9 is basically a 777-300ER that is more efficient.

And it has systems upgrades based on 787 tech designed to save money on maintenance. The only reason to buy the last generation stuff is it is being priced cheaply to keep the line going. That gravy train should end in a year or so.


Exactly
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:17 am

bikerthai wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Wingskins are made from multiple machined flat sheets that are thermally creep formed in an oven/autoclave to conform to the wing surface shape. Then processed to a single part each ( top, bottom )


Do you have a better video, or presentation showing the A380 wing skin construction? The video link you provided just show them machining the skin then heat/treat/heat form the skin in an oven. There was no obvious laminating/bonding operation. Typical laminating/bonding operation requires chemical treatment and primer coat (for better bonding). Doesn't make sense to have multiple layers of the same metal material bonded together for the skin because the lamination (bond line) would be the weak link. I can see if it's Glare where the external laminate act as a corrosion barrier.

The only lamination that I could imagine on any aluminum wing skin would be the thin clad material on the outer surface for corrosion protection.

bt


GLARE, glass laminate aluminum reinforced epoxy, the material itself is laminated. But it is used in the fuselage skin, not wings. You do not find laminate in the wings of the A380.
 
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Slug71
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:16 am

bikerthai wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Wingskins are made from multiple machined flat sheets that are thermally creep formed in an oven/autoclave to conform to the wing surface shape. Then processed to a single part each ( top, bottom )


Do you have a better video, or presentation showing the A380 wing skin construction? The video link you provided just show them machining the skin then heat/treat/heat form the skin in an oven. There was no obvious laminating/bonding operation. Typical laminating/bonding operation requires chemical treatment and primer coat (for better bonding). Doesn't make sense to have multiple layers of the same metal material bonded together for the skin because the lamination (bond line) would be the weak link. I can see if it's Glare where the external laminate act as a corrosion barrier.

The only lamination that I could imagine on any aluminum wing skin would be the thin clad material on the outer surface for corrosion protection.

bt


The A380 wings are aluminium. The flaps are carbon fiber. No laminate in the wing skin.
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:57 am

Stitch wrote:
estorilm wrote:
Also I didn't realize how subconsciously "old" the 777 nose looks, even with a brilliant livery, new wings, new engines... but wow, you look at those windows and shape and just think "oh, that's an older plane".


Well it is the same as the 767, so it actually is old. :old: :biggrin:


To give another example, the 330neo has the same windows as the A300. First Airbus never built at the end of the 60s! :old:

To come back to the windows of the 777/767 they are also like those of the 757.

The 757 has a "modern" appearance on many aircraft thanks to its tapered nose, but it is exactly the same windows for these last 3...
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Do it! "...
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:59 am

Any idea when the next flight is ?
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
Checklist787
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:13 am

SEPilot wrote:

The GE9X engine only has 105,000 lb thrust, the 77W requires 115,000.


:checkmark:
Absolutely!

mjoelnir wrote:
bikerthai wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Wingskins are made from multiple machined flat sheets that are thermally creep formed in an oven/autoclave to conform to the wing surface shape. Then processed to a single part each ( top, bottom )


Do you have a better video, or presentation showing the A380 wing skin construction? The video link you provided just show them machining the skin then heat/treat/heat form the skin in an oven. There was no obvious laminating/bonding operation. Typical laminating/bonding operation requires chemical treatment and primer coat (for better bonding). Doesn't make sense to have multiple layers of the same metal material bonded together for the skin because the lamination (bond line) would be the weak link. I can see if it's Glare where the external laminate act as a corrosion barrier.

The only lamination that I could imagine on any aluminum wing skin would be the thin clad material on the outer surface for corrosion protection.

bt


GLARE, glass laminate aluminum reinforced epoxy, the material itself is laminated. But it is used in the fuselage skin, not wings. You do not find laminate in the wings of the A380.


Thanks!

To return to the 777-X materials you confirm what I thought about the characteristics / key features of the 777-X.

This very first big CFRP wing gives a lot of lift due to its size, its CFRP composition made it first take off like a sheet of paper while the GE9X require less thrust than those of the 777-300ER predecessor...
"No limit to my poooWer!!!
Do it! "...
 
WIederling
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:58 am

bikerthai wrote:
Do you have a better video, or presentation showing the A380 wing skin construction? The video link you provided just show them machining the skin then heat/treat/heat form the skin in an oven.

there used to be 30..40 minute video around that followed the full path to a wing.
( This was before first flight of the A380 i.e. ..2006.. , net wise an eternity ago :-)
it mentioned that the wing skins are assembled from 5..6 individual creep formed panels.

a reasonably good (text) description here:
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content ... /full/html
Murphy is an optimist
 
Boeingphan
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:29 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
Any idea when the next flight is ?


Looks like in 3 hours in 42 mins.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE ... /KBFI/KBFI
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:36 pm

Checklist787 wrote:

This very first big CFRP wing gives a lot of lift due to its size
It does? I thought it gave the same amount as the previous wing?

Fred
Image
 
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Polot
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:46 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
Checklist787 wrote:

This very first big CFRP wing gives a lot of lift due to its size
It does? I thought it gave the same amount as the previous wing?

Fred

The new wing is larger, it should provide more lift. That is one of the reasons why the max engine thrust is lower vs the 77W despite the same MTOW.
 
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qf789
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Re: Boeing 777-9 first flight 25 January 2020

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:09 pm

As the first flight has been and gone please continue discussing in the 77X production and testing thread

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1437935
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