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jumbojettony
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:21 pm

Howdy Everybody!

I was just thinking about this the other day. During the summer at Yul anytime between 4pm and 9pm the airport is absolutely jammed with International flights. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot more the airport can grow (especially in those time slots).

With the limited land Yul has is there really any room to grow or is it stuck at what it is now?
 
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:41 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:


Yeah the new multilevel parking lot is almost done and looks good. But I guess what I am getting at is what new airlines/routes could we be seeing? I rememeber hearing that Aer Lingus was going to start this summer with the A321Neo and Turkish is upgrading from A333 to 789.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:54 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
Yeah the new multilevel parking lot is almost done and looks good.


Unless the project has been dropped, there's a plan to add a Y terminal extending eastward from the main building.


jumbojettony wrote:
But I guess what I am getting at is what new airlines/routes could we be seeing? I rememeber hearing that Aer Lingus was going to start this summer with the A321Neo and Turkish is upgrading from A333 to 789.


You should have been more clear since you asked:

jumbojettony wrote:
I was just thinking about this the other day. During the summer at Yul anytime between 4pm and 9pm the airport is absolutely jammed with International flights. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot more the airport can grow (especially in those time slots).

With the limited land Yul has is there really any room to grow or is it stuck at what it is now?


The Aer Lingus flight is cancelled due to delays in A321neo deliveries.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:00 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:
Yeah the new multilevel parking lot is almost done and looks good.


Unless the project has been dropped, there's a plan to add a Y terminal extending eastward from the main building.


jumbojettony wrote:
But I guess what I am getting at is what new airlines/routes could we be seeing? I rememeber hearing that Aer Lingus was going to start this summer with the A321Neo and Turkish is upgrading from A333 to 789.


You should have been more clear since you asked:

[quote="jumbojettony"] I was just thinking about this the other day. During the summer at Yul anytime between 4pm and 9pm the airport is absolutely jammed with International flights. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot more the airport can grow (especially in those time slots).


Yeah should have been more clear. Sorry about that (haven't finished my coffee yet :roll: ).
 
winter
Posts: 69
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:42 pm

Planned full build-out of YUL:
Image
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:20 pm

winter wrote:
Planned full build-out of YUL:


Thanks for that picture. I remember hearing ADM CEO saying back in 2018 that YUL is good for another 50 years regarding runway capacitiy.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:22 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
winter wrote:
Planned full build-out of YUL:


Thanks for that picture. I remember hearing ADM CEO saying back in 2018 that YUL is good for another 50 years regarding runway capacitiy.


Well considering 28/10 hasn't been used in over a year seems like a smart idea to use that land for more gates.

Will be curious to see if they use that parking area on the right for de-icing in the winter.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:32 pm

For those that don't know the "REM" mentioned above is the French acronym for LRT. There will finally be a rail connection to downtown. It is currently under construction and will be operational in 2023 I believe. The train tunnel will be under the Y shaped terminal extension in the picture above.
The road access is also currently being improved.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:38 pm

As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:59 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
Well considering 28/10 hasn't been used in over a year


With the new "parking lot" next to it, it can't be used any other way than a taxiway: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Montr ... 4814?hl=en
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:00 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.

Yep, with the new bird of the fleet.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:12 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.


Will be nice to see them. With all these plans for the airport it will be nice to see some new airlines. Was looking forward to Aer Lingus but that will have to wait.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:14 pm

Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:12 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.


Oh Noooooooooo! That whole debate was awful-so much finger pointing. Let it die once and for all please.
 
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thekorean
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:14 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.


Oh Noooooooooo! That whole debate was awful-so much finger pointing. Let it die once and for all please.

Why didn't they close YUL when they opened YMX? Seems kinda silly.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:18 pm

thekorean wrote:
Why didn't they close YUL when they opened YMX? Seems kinda silly.


Because, it was """very, very, very wisely""" decided to have domestic and transborder flights arrive at YUL and the rest of the world at YMX.
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:19 pm

I hate to see the Aeroquay go but time marches on. It was one of first true satellite concourse/terminals in it's day. I flew YQB-YUL-YYZ in the 70's and we parked at the 'Quay before continuing on to YYZ for a connection to ORD with another to PIA. Gosh I feel old. :old:
"My soul is in the sky". -Pyramus- A Midsummer's Night Dream
 
blueflyer
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:38 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.

And Brussels Airlines will serve BRU-YUL 5x/ week in addition to Air Canada's daily service.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:59 pm

jumbojettony wrote:

Well considering 28/10 hasn't been used in over a year seems like a smart idea to use that land for more gates.

Will be curious to see if they use that parking area on the right for de-icing in the winter.


Rwy 10/28 hasn't been used for almost 3 years now. The new parking area they built north of that runway (west of the de-ice center) is the primary reason why.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

There aren't enough gates at YUL. Forget about peak summer. Last week (mid January), intl flights were landing and were being held on taxiways because their gates were still occupied.

The new terminal needs to be built. Unfortunately, before that can happen, Runway 06L/24R needs to be fully repaved. The reason being when they repave the middle section of runway 06L/24R, we need to use runway 10/28 - in order to have 2 active runways. That project is currently on hold for the winter season and will resume next June. It will most likely take another year or two (some f**k up happened over at ADM in that regard lately. Dont want to get into details. Suffice it to say, there is a reason why rwy 06L/24R is currently only 7068 ft. We were supposed to have full length for the winter season). Once that runway is fully repaved, Runway 10/28 can close for good and the construction of a new pier can start.

.................................................................................................................................................................

As far as international passengers are concerned:

2019 YTD October International passenger numbers for North America's busiest airports:


1. JFK 29,184,889 (+3.0%)
2. YYZ 27,377,305 (+2.5%)
3. LAX 21,692,237 (-1.4%)
4. MIA 18,580,259 (+3.4%)
5. MEX 14,621,384 (+~2.5%)
6. PTY
7. CUN 13,682,731 (+~0.5%)
8. SFO 12,845,491 (+7.4%)
9. ORD 12,173,390 (+3.0%)
10. EWR 12,050,253 (+1.4%)
11. YVR 11,652,075 (+1.4%)
12. YUL 11,209,688 (+6.4%)
13. ATL 10,784,008 (+1.4%)
14. IAH 9,210,076
15. DFW 8,093,630 (+10.1%)

YUL passed ATL in 2019. With all the additional flights (mentioned above) coming online this year, we are on track to pass YVR very shortly as well. EWR and ORD arent too far ahead either.
DFW, SFO and YUL are leading the intl growth % for North America's busiest airports in 2019.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
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Re: Future of YUL

Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:42 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:

Well considering 28/10 hasn't been used in over a year seems like a smart idea to use that land for more gates.

Will be curious to see if they use that parking area on the right for de-icing in the winter.


Rwy 10/28 hasn't been used for almost 3 years now. The new parking area they built north of that runway (west of the de-ice center) is the primary reason why.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

There aren't enough gates at YUL. Forget about peak summer. Last week (mid January), intl flights were landing and were being held on taxiways because their gates were still occupied.

The new terminal needs to be built. Unfortunately, before that can happen, Runway 06L/24R needs to be fully repaved. The reason being when they repave the middle section of runway 06L/24R, we need to use runway 10/28 - in order to have 2 active runways. That project is currently on hold for the winter season and will resume next June. It will most likely take another year or two (some f**k up happened over at ADM in that regard lately. Dont want to get into details. Suffice it to say, there is a reason why rwy 06L/24R is currently only 7068 ft. We were supposed to have full length for the winter season). Once that runway is fully repaved, Runway 10/28 can close for good and the construction of a new pier can start.

.................................................................................................................................................................

As far as international passengers are concerned:

2019 YTD October International passenger numbers for North America's busiest airports:


1. JFK 29,184,889 (+3.0%)
2. YYZ 27,377,305 (+2.5%)
3. LAX 21,692,237 (-1.4%)
4. MIA 18,580,259 (+3.4%)
5. MEX 14,621,384 (+~2.5%)
6. PTY
7. CUN 13,682,731 (+~0.5%)
8. SFO 12,845,491 (+7.4%)
9. ORD 12,173,390 (+3.0%)
10. EWR 12,050,253 (+1.4%)
11. YVR 11,652,075 (+1.4%)
12. YUL 11,209,688 (+6.4%)
13. ATL 10,784,008 (+1.4%)
14. IAH 9,210,076
15. DFW 8,093,630 (+10.1%)

YUL passed ATL in 2019. With all the additional flights (mentioned above) coming online this year, we are on track to pass YVR very shortly as well. EWR and ORD arent too far ahead either.
DFW, SFO and YUL are leading the intl growth % for North America's busiest airports in 2019.


Yeah I was wondering when 24R/06L would re-open. They could definitely use that for the summer. Will be interesting to see how much the airport will change in the next 5-10 years especially if it keeps growing.
 
Cubsrule
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:00 am

Skywatcher wrote:
For those that don't know the "REM" mentioned above is the French acronym for LRT. There will finally be a rail connection to downtown. It is currently under construction and will be operational in 2023 I believe. The train tunnel will be under the Y shaped terminal extension in the picture above.
The road access is also currently being improved.


While I think REM will technically be light rail, it’s going to operate much more like a transit/commuter rail line than many light rail/tram lines. It’ll be something like 25 minutes and 8 stops to Gare Centrale with multiple links to the Metro and 10-15 minute headways, so the experience will be comparable to UPExpress.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
YYZORD
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:01 am

winter wrote:
Planned full build-out of YUL:
Image


Is there no more space to expand the number of gates and terminal space after this plan?
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:59 am

Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.


For the time being YUL-GRU is only winter seasonal at the moment.

YUL-BOG will be replacing YUL-LIM as there is more demand and connection possibilities at BOG.

Air Canada is also starting YUL-TLS 5 weekly on their A330-300. YUL-NCE heads over to mainline 5 weekly on an A330-300, up from 4 weekly Rouge 767-300 service.
AC rouge has also increased LIS from 3 to 5 weekly, using a 767 from a planned increase on MRS & ALG.
AC increases DUB from 3 to 4 weekly with a 787-8, (probably killed the chances of seeing EI on the route anytime soon.)
Other North American additions/increases include A220-300 to SEA (new), DEN 13 weekly (previously E190s), 3 of 8 daily LGA are with the A223. MIA increases from 10 to 14 weekly (A319)

YUL-PAR will be pretty well coved with summer, AC adds 3rd 3 weekly service, Air France adds a 4th 3 weekly service. LEVEL up to 4 weekly from 3 to ORY.

TS also adds 3 weekly SAN and expands MSY to year round 2 weekly. Also many increases on European routes using their new A321s

I'm sure more changes are still to come with the MAX groundings, so a pretty busy summer indeed at YUL, with many gate hold during the peak period.
Last edited by alexdelzotto1 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 552
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:28 am

SteelChair wrote:
Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.

I seriously doubt it. The old terminal was taken down a few years ago, and portions of the land expropriated for the airport in the 60s were sold back. Many of the problems Mirabel had back when it served passengers still exist today - namely, it is far outside the city center, far less convenient to the vast majority of Montreal area travelers than YUL, and there's no efficient mass transport link to move people between YMX and downtown Montreal. YUL may not have a direct rail link into the city (yet), but one is being built, there is express bus service, and without traffic it's a 20 minute cab ride. YMX is 45 minutes from downtown without traffic. Add traffic once you're on the island of Montreal in rush hour and it's easily an hour and a half. There's no rail link, and extending public express busses out that far would be difficult. Beyond the logistical issues, I think returning to Mirabel would also be a no-go from a political perspective; it was widely perceived as such a boondoggle and was so controversial, I don't think there would be any public appetite for a return.

YUL will continue to be developed to expand/adapt to the growing market. If there is a need for another airport in Montreal in the future, I doubt it would be Mirabel again.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:31 am

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.


For the time being YUL-GRU is only winter seasonal at the moment.

YUL-BOG will be replacing YUL-LIM as there is more demand and connection possibilities at BOG.

Air Canada is also starting YUL-TLS 5 weekly on their A330-300. YUL-NCE heads over to mainline 5 weekly on an A330-300, up from 4 weekly Rouge 767-300 service.
AC rouge has also increased LIS from 3 to 5 weekly, using a 767 from a planned increase on MRS & ALG.
AC increases DUB from 3 to 4 weekly with a 787-8, (probably killed the chances of seeing EI on the route anytime soon.)
Other North American additions/increases include A220-300 to SEA (new), DEN 13 weekly (previously E190s), 3 of 8 daily LGA are with the A223. MIA increases from 10 to 14 weekly (A319)

YUL-PAR will be pretty well coved with summer, AC adds 3rd 3 weekly service, Air France adds a 4th 3 weekly service. LEVEL up to 4 weekly from 3 to ORY.

TS also adds 3 weekly SAN and expands MSY to year round 2 weekly. Also many increases on European routes using their new A321s

I'm sure more changes are still to come with the MAX groundings, so a pretty busy summer indeed at YUL, with many gate hold during the peak period.


Yay just what Yul needed, more A330s :duck:

Joking aside going to be an interesting summer thats for sure.
 
kevinasaurus
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:16 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:21 am

HVNandrew wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.

I seriously doubt it. The old terminal was taken down a few years ago, and portions of the land expropriated for the airport in the 60s were sold back. Many of the problems Mirabel had back when it served passengers still exist today - namely, it is far outside the city center, far less convenient to the vast majority of Montreal area travelers than YUL, and there's no efficient mass transport link to move people between YMX and downtown Montreal. YUL may not have a direct rail link into the city (yet), but one is being built, there is express bus service, and without traffic it's a 20 minute cab ride. YMX is 45 minutes from downtown without traffic. Add traffic once you're on the island of Montreal in rush hour and it's easily an hour and a half. There's no rail link, and extending public express busses out that far would be difficult. Beyond the logistical issues, I think returning to Mirabel would also be a no-go from a political perspective; it was widely perceived as such a boondoggle and was so controversial, I don't think there would be any public appetite for a return.

YUL will continue to be developed to expand/adapt to the growing market. If there is a need for another airport in Montreal in the future, I doubt it would be Mirabel again.


When Jetlines was still talking about opening (not sure what's happening with them), they had talked about using Montreal-St. Hubert (YHU) airport for their Montreal operations. Does anyone know how viable that would be for expansion in the future?
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 2004
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:32 am

kevinasaurus wrote:
HVNandrew wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Given that the city will only become more populous in the future, perhaps YMX will once again become a commercial airport. Maybe the idea was right, just the timing was wrong.

I seriously doubt it. The old terminal was taken down a few years ago, and portions of the land expropriated for the airport in the 60s were sold back. Many of the problems Mirabel had back when it served passengers still exist today - namely, it is far outside the city center, far less convenient to the vast majority of Montreal area travelers than YUL, and there's no efficient mass transport link to move people between YMX and downtown Montreal. YUL may not have a direct rail link into the city (yet), but one is being built, there is express bus service, and without traffic it's a 20 minute cab ride. YMX is 45 minutes from downtown without traffic. Add traffic once you're on the island of Montreal in rush hour and it's easily an hour and a half. There's no rail link, and extending public express busses out that far would be difficult. Beyond the logistical issues, I think returning to Mirabel would also be a no-go from a political perspective; it was widely perceived as such a boondoggle and was so controversial, I don't think there would be any public appetite for a return.

YUL will continue to be developed to expand/adapt to the growing market. If there is a need for another airport in Montreal in the future, I doubt it would be Mirabel again.


When Jetlines was still talking about opening (not sure what's happening with them), they had talked about using Montreal-St. Hubert (YHU) airport for their Montreal operations. Does anyone know how viable that would be for expansion in the future?


YHU, for all intents and purposes, doesn't have a suitable terminal. Part of that plan was that the airport was going to get an LCC-type terminal built, essentially just for Jetlines at first, though I'm sure they'd hope for more. In any case, Jetlines is essentially dead now, so I wouldn't expect too much to happen at YHU for now. Also, while closer to downtown than YMX was, YHU still involves travel over bridges to get to it.

-JL
Jean Leloup - original a.net moderator and still recovering!
 
330lover
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:11 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:48 am

blueflyer wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.

And Brussels Airlines will serve BRU-YUL 5x/ week in addition to Air Canada's daily service.


Actually SN is replacing AC on the BRU-YUL-BRU route, while AC is moving their BRU flights to YYZ.
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:30 am

330lover wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
As far as new routes this summer goes as far as I know TAP will be flying YUL-LIS, a YUL-GRU (Sao Paulo) by AC just started, YUL-Bogota by AC (Bogota) will start in June along with YUL-SEA on an AC A-200. I think Transat is starting YUL-CPH as well.

And Brussels Airlines will serve BRU-YUL 5x/ week in addition to Air Canada's daily service.


Actually SN is replacing AC on the BRU-YUL-BRU route, while AC is moving their BRU flights to YYZ.


No they aren't.
SN's 5 weekly service to YUL is to compliment AC daily service to YUL.
 
330lover
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:11 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:46 am

alexdelzotto1 wrote:
330lover wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
And Brussels Airlines will serve BRU-YUL 5x/ week in addition to Air Canada's daily service.


Actually SN is replacing AC on the BRU-YUL-BRU route, while AC is moving their BRU flights to YYZ.


No they aren't.
SN's 5 weekly service to YUL is to compliment AC daily service to YUL.


OK, thanks, I stand corrected. Was convinced they just swapped the routes, but indeed it seems not so.
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
 
runway23
Posts: 2337
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:07 am

Skywatcher wrote:
For those that don't know the "REM" mentioned above is the French acronym for LRT. There will finally be a rail connection to downtown. It is currently under construction and will be operational in 2023 I believe. The train tunnel will be under the Y shaped terminal extension in the picture above.
The road access is also currently being improved.


REM isn’t a French acronym it’s the name Montreal/Quebec chose for the express rail in the region. That said it will be fully automated and run every 3 minutes at the main stations downtown. The name is similar to the BART name in San Francisco or MARTA in Atlanta.
 
beechnut
Posts: 937
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:27 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:22 pm

Jean Leloup wrote:
Also, while closer to downtown than YMX was, YHU still involves travel over bridges to get to it.

-JL


There is however a commuter rail station nearby, to downtown (Gare Centrale). A shuttle service from YHU to the station would be very short, very little hard-core traffic to deal with. It would depend on CN whether EXO could increase the frequency of trains. I imagine that the volume at YHU would be quite low though.

Beech
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:03 pm

beechnut wrote:
Jean Leloup wrote:
Also, while closer to downtown than YMX was, YHU still involves travel over bridges to get to it.

-JL


There is however a commuter rail station nearby, to downtown (Gare Centrale). A shuttle service from YHU to the station would be very short, very little hard-core traffic to deal with. It would depend on CN whether EXO could increase the frequency of trains. I imagine that the volume at YHU would be quite low though.

Beech


I work out of YHU and the airport has grown a bit since ive been here (4 years). We have Chrono Aviation with 2 737-200s, Dash 8 and a B1900 that are here quite often. Pascan / Max aviation as always and even now Hub Fbo which takes in some a320s 737-400s for some hockey teams. They are making a brand new hangar for Chrono aswell. What I believe they should do is expand the airport (build a small terminal) to accommodate all the northern airlines from Yul to free up space there and maybe even some of the private airlines. The commute from YHU to downtown and YUL to downtown can be around the same depending traffic.
 
jamsco99
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:02 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:10 pm

Security to get airside at YULis already congested. Takes a minimum of 30 minutes at peak times
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8534
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:39 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:

Well considering 28/10 hasn't been used in over a year seems like a smart idea to use that land for more gates.

Will be curious to see if they use that parking area on the right for de-icing in the winter.


Rwy 10/28 hasn't been used for almost 3 years now. The new parking area they built north of that runway (west of the de-ice center) is the primary reason why.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

There aren't enough gates at YUL. Forget about peak summer. Last week (mid January), intl flights were landing and were being held on taxiways because their gates were still occupied.

The new terminal needs to be built. Unfortunately, before that can happen, Runway 06L/24R needs to be fully repaved. The reason being when they repave the middle section of runway 06L/24R, we need to use runway 10/28 - in order to have 2 active runways. That project is currently on hold for the winter season and will resume next June. It will most likely take another year or two (some f**k up happened over at ADM in that regard lately. Dont want to get into details. Suffice it to say, there is a reason why rwy 06L/24R is currently only 7068 ft. We were supposed to have full length for the winter season). Once that runway is fully repaved, Runway 10/28 can close for good and the construction of a new pier can start.

.................................................................................................................................................................

As far as international passengers are concerned:

2019 YTD October International passenger numbers for North America's busiest airports:


1. JFK 29,184,889 (+3.0%)
2. YYZ 27,377,305 (+2.5%)
3. LAX 21,692,237 (-1.4%)
4. MIA 18,580,259 (+3.4%)
5. MEX 14,621,384 (+~2.5%)
6. PTY
7. CUN 13,682,731 (+~0.5%)
8. SFO 12,845,491 (+7.4%)
9. ORD 12,173,390 (+3.0%)
10. EWR 12,050,253 (+1.4%)
11. YVR 11,652,075 (+1.4%)
12. YUL 11,209,688 (+6.4%)
13. ATL 10,784,008 (+1.4%)
14. IAH 9,210,076
15. DFW 8,093,630 (+10.1%)

YUL passed ATL in 2019. With all the additional flights (mentioned above) coming online this year, we are on track to pass YVR very shortly as well. EWR and ORD arent too far ahead either.
DFW, SFO and YUL are leading the intl growth % for North America's busiest airports in 2019.

That line of thinking might be relevant if airports served only International passengers. Look at total passenger count and see how YUL ranks among North American airports. It is not a force.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:26 pm

The OP was talking about international flights. I commented in that regard.

Every major airport in North America (and the world really) strives to attract foreign carriers and/or destinations and the foreign passengers that come with it.

TPA handles a similar number of total passengers compared to YUL. Pretty sure their airport CEO would cut off a limb if it meant they could have non stop flights to places like BOG, GRU, FCO, CDG, PVG, NRT, PEK, etc...

An airport like SEA, which handles almost twice as much traffic as YVR, would probably trade places with it, if it meant they could have flights to places like SYD, MEL, DEL, ZRH, etc....

International airlines and pax are a force, a far greater one than CRJ or Dash 8 flights to Des Moines, Iowa, or Subdury, Ontario.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14636
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:31 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
The OP was talking about international flights. I commented in that regard.

Every major airport in North America (and the world really) strives to attract foreign carriers and/or destinations and the foreign passengers that come with it.

TPA handles a similar number of total passengers compared to YUL. Pretty sure their airport CEO would cut off a limb if it meant they could have non stop flights to places like BOG, GRU, FCO, CDG, PVG, NRT, PEK, etc...

An airport like SEA, which handles almost twice as much traffic as YVR, would probably trade places with it, if it meant they could have flights to places like SYD, MEL, DEL, ZRH, etc....

International airlines and pax are a force, a far greater one than CRJ or Dash 8 flights to Des Moines, Iowa, or Subdury, Ontario.


I see where you are coming from, but it's a tricky issue in North America. Obviously, Disney World is a big driver of demand for YUL-based leisure passengers. Are YUL-MCO passengers more valuable than BOS-MCO passengers because YUL-MCO happens to cross an international border? And New York is an important business destination ex-Montreal, so we could ask the same question about YUL-LGA versus BOS-LGA. I think the distintion you are trying to draw is long-haul versus short-haul (or intercontinental versus intracontinental) more so than domestic versus international.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3020
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:34 pm

^

Yes, International long haul is a force. Airports would kill to have as much of it as they can. There is a reason for that.

That being said, international short haul has its merits too. Routes like YUL-LGA/DCA are far greater in importance than a similar distance domestic hop.

Pretty sure YEG would kill to have its non stop to ORD back. You dont see them complaining that they have no non stop to YQB.
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Jamie514
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:


Rwy 10/28 hasn't been used for almost 3 years now. The new parking area they built north of that runway (west of the de-ice center) is the primary reason why.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

There aren't enough gates at YUL. Forget about peak summer. Last week (mid January), intl flights were landing and were being held on taxiways because their gates were still occupied.

The new terminal needs to be built. Unfortunately, before that can happen, Runway 06L/24R needs to be fully repaved. The reason being when they repave the middle section of runway 06L/24R, we need to use runway 10/28 - in order to have 2 active runways. That project is currently on hold for the winter season and will resume next June. It will most likely take another year or two (some f**k up happened over at ADM in that regard lately. Dont want to get into details. Suffice it to say, there is a reason why rwy 06L/24R is currently only 7068 ft. We were supposed to have full length for the winter season). Once that runway is fully repaved, Runway 10/28 can close for good and the construction of a new pier can start.

.................................................................................................................................................................

As far as international passengers are concerned:

2019 YTD October International passenger numbers for North America's busiest airports:


1. JFK 29,184,889 (+3.0%)
2. YYZ 27,377,305 (+2.5%)
3. LAX 21,692,237 (-1.4%)
4. MIA 18,580,259 (+3.4%)
5. MEX 14,621,384 (+~2.5%)
6. PTY
7. CUN 13,682,731 (+~0.5%)
8. SFO 12,845,491 (+7.4%)
9. ORD 12,173,390 (+3.0%)
10. EWR 12,050,253 (+1.4%)
11. YVR 11,652,075 (+1.4%)
12. YUL 11,209,688 (+6.4%)
13. ATL 10,784,008 (+1.4%)
14. IAH 9,210,076
15. DFW 8,093,630 (+10.1%)

YUL passed ATL in 2019. With all the additional flights (mentioned above) coming online this year, we are on track to pass YVR very shortly as well. EWR and ORD arent too far ahead either.
DFW, SFO and YUL are leading the intl growth % for North America's busiest airports in 2019.

That line of thinking might be relevant if airports served only International passengers. Look at total passenger count and see how YUL ranks among North American airports. It is not a force.


Disqualifying YUL's int'l growth numbers as irrelevant compared to overall growth at american fortress hubs?

You do realize the thread topic is YUL physical expansion due to saturation and projected growth and so other airports and their overall growth aren't really aren't relevant to the discussion?

Or can't we talk about airports outside Atlanta on this forum?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10907
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:48 pm

Jamie514 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:


Rwy 10/28 hasn't been used for almost 3 years now. The new parking area they built north of that runway (west of the de-ice center) is the primary reason why.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

There aren't enough gates at YUL. Forget about peak summer. Last week (mid January), intl flights were landing and were being held on taxiways because their gates were still occupied.

The new terminal needs to be built. Unfortunately, before that can happen, Runway 06L/24R needs to be fully repaved. The reason being when they repave the middle section of runway 06L/24R, we need to use runway 10/28 - in order to have 2 active runways. That project is currently on hold for the winter season and will resume next June. It will most likely take another year or two (some f**k up happened over at ADM in that regard lately. Dont want to get into details. Suffice it to say, there is a reason why rwy 06L/24R is currently only 7068 ft. We were supposed to have full length for the winter season). Once that runway is fully repaved, Runway 10/28 can close for good and the construction of a new pier can start.

.................................................................................................................................................................

As far as international passengers are concerned:

2019 YTD October International passenger numbers for North America's busiest airports:


1. JFK 29,184,889 (+3.0%)
2. YYZ 27,377,305 (+2.5%)
3. LAX 21,692,237 (-1.4%)
4. MIA 18,580,259 (+3.4%)
5. MEX 14,621,384 (+~2.5%)
6. PTY
7. CUN 13,682,731 (+~0.5%)
8. SFO 12,845,491 (+7.4%)
9. ORD 12,173,390 (+3.0%)
10. EWR 12,050,253 (+1.4%)
11. YVR 11,652,075 (+1.4%)
12. YUL 11,209,688 (+6.4%)
13. ATL 10,784,008 (+1.4%)
14. IAH 9,210,076
15. DFW 8,093,630 (+10.1%)

YUL passed ATL in 2019. With all the additional flights (mentioned above) coming online this year, we are on track to pass YVR very shortly as well. EWR and ORD arent too far ahead either.
DFW, SFO and YUL are leading the intl growth % for North America's busiest airports in 2019.

That line of thinking might be relevant if airports served only International passengers. Look at total passenger count and see how YUL ranks among North American airports. It is not a force.


Disqualifying YUL's int'l growth numbers as irrelevant compared to overall growth at american fortress hubs?

You do realize the thread topic is YUL physical expansion due to saturation and projected growth and so other airports and their overall growth aren't really aren't relevant to the discussion?

Or can't we talk about airports outside Atlanta on this forum?

You do realize he is not the one who brought up YUL’s international growth relative to other North American airports?
 
Jamie514
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:50 pm

Polot wrote:
Jamie514 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
That line of thinking might be relevant if airports served only International passengers. Look at total passenger count and see how YUL ranks among North American airports. It is not a force.


Disqualifying YUL's int'l growth numbers as irrelevant compared to overall growth at american fortress hubs?

You do realize the thread topic is YUL physical expansion due to saturation and projected growth and so other airports and their overall growth aren't really aren't relevant to the discussion?

Or can't we talk about airports outside Atlanta on this forum?

You do realize he is not the one who brought up YUL’s international growth relative to other North American airports?


you do realize that he is the one who moved the goalpost from the thread-topical intl growth at YUL subject to an overall numbers contest because someone dared compare it to the megahubs?
 
User avatar
Web500sjc
Posts: 862
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:23 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:55 pm

Jamie514 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Jamie514 wrote:

Disqualifying YUL's int'l growth numbers as irrelevant compared to overall growth at american fortress hubs?

You do realize the thread topic is YUL physical expansion due to saturation and projected growth and so other airports and their overall growth aren't really aren't relevant to the discussion?

Or can't we talk about airports outside Atlanta on this forum?

You do realize he is not the one who brought up YUL’s international growth relative to other North American airports?


you do realize that he is the one who moved the goalpost from the thread-topical intl growth at YUL subject to an overall numbers contest because someone dared compare it to the megahubs?


How many international qualified gates does YUL have compared to JFK, LAX, YYZ, YVR, IAH, DFW, ORD etc. a better statistic would be number of manual passengers per an international gate.
Boiler Up!
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2877
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:00 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
beechnut wrote:
Jean Leloup wrote:
Also, while closer to downtown than YMX was, YHU still involves travel over bridges to get to it.

-JL


There is however a commuter rail station nearby, to downtown (Gare Centrale). A shuttle service from YHU to the station would be very short, very little hard-core traffic to deal with. It would depend on CN whether EXO could increase the frequency of trains. I imagine that the volume at YHU would be quite low though.

Beech


I work out of YHU and the airport has grown a bit since ive been here (4 years). We have Chrono Aviation with 2 737-200s, Dash 8 and a B1900 that are here quite often. Pascan / Max aviation as always and even now Hub Fbo which takes in some a320s 737-400s for some hockey teams. They are making a brand new hangar for Chrono aswell. What I believe they should do is expand the airport (build a small terminal) to accommodate all the northern airlines from Yul to free up space there and maybe even some of the private airlines. The commute from YHU to downtown and YUL to downtown can be around the same depending traffic.


The northern airlines at YUL would never move to YHU as they all interline with AC.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:20 pm

Just spoke to someone at the airport and they are saying 24R/06L will be fully closed this summer as they redo the surface. Meaning it won't even be the shortened version we have now. Going to be a mess this summer.
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3694
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:51 pm

YUL has some African routes to dig into. I believe Air Senegal would start Montreal whenever it is possible. Either Rouge or Air Canada may start TUN as the route grows organically, just like they did for CMN and ALG. France can grow with Air Transat and the NEOs. Canada wise, Saskatchewan needs a non-stop connection, at least seasonally. The remaining of domestic routes would catch YHU more than YUL.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:32 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
Just spoke to someone at the airport and they are saying 24R/06L will be fully closed this summer as they redo the surface. Meaning it won't even be the shortened version we have now. Going to be a mess this summer.


I guess the lighter aircraft will be forced to use 28/10, unfortunately it is not parallel to 24L/06R.
Didn't 24R/06R just get resurfaced not too long ago? It seems that roads/runways etc. are particularly badly built and maintained in Montreal.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:53 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:
Just spoke to someone at the airport and they are saying 24R/06L will be fully closed this summer as they redo the surface. Meaning it won't even be the shortened version we have now. Going to be a mess this summer.


I guess the lighter aircraft will be forced to use 28/10, unfortunately it is not parallel to 24L/06R.
Didn't 24R/06R just get resurfaced not too long ago? It seems that roads/runways etc. are particularly badly built and maintained in Montreal.


28/10 is closed indefinitely due to parking beside it. From my understanding they did the 24R side of the runway first, they are in the process of finishing the 06L side and then they need to do the middle. But I could be wrong this is all second hand info.
 
alexdelzotto1
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:05 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:04 pm

TS-IOR wrote:
YUL has some African routes to dig into. I believe Air Senegal would start Montreal whenever it is possible. Either Rouge or Air Canada may start TUN as the route grows organically, just like they did for CMN and ALG. France can grow with Air Transat and the NEOs. Canada wise, Saskatchewan needs a non-stop connection, at least seasonally. The remaining of domestic routes would catch YHU more than YUL.



There were talks a few months ago of Ethiopian Airlines wanting to start ADD.

Air Canada did at some point have TUN planed but I believe ALG is not preforming as well as planed due to cuts this summer so this plan might be shelved at the moment.

Is there that much demand for Air Senegal to open up a route to DSS? AC & SN will have YUL pretty well covered for one stop connections to Africa from Brussels.
 
santi319
Posts: 1059
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:27 pm

Its unbelivable how AC can make ALG or CMN work (and look at TUN as a potential) but have stayed away from AMM or BEY!

Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.

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