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santi319
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:27 pm

Its unbelivable how AC can make ALG or CMN work (and look at TUN as a potential) but have stayed away from AMM or BEY!

Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.
 
drgmobile
Posts: 989
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:06 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:30 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
Howdy Everybody!

I was just thinking about this the other day. During the summer at Yul anytime between 4pm and 9pm the airport is absolutely jammed with International flights. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot more the airport can grow (especially in those time slots).

With the limited land Yul has is there really any room to grow or is it stuck at what it is now?


Based on what? The number of open gates? T/L slots?
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:38 pm

drgmobile wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:
Howdy Everybody!

I was just thinking about this the other day. During the summer at Yul anytime between 4pm and 9pm the airport is absolutely jammed with International flights. It doesn't seem like there is a whole lot more the airport can grow (especially in those time slots).

With the limited land Yul has is there really any room to grow or is it stuck at what it is now?


Based on what? The number of open gates? T/L slots?


I'd say gates. This is all speculative on my part I don't have any stats. More from an observation standpoint I see a lot of planes land and have to wait for a gate during the summertime. The airport just seems very busy and the wait times at security are ridiculous at times.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:18 am

Skywatcher wrote:
Didn't 24R/06R just get resurfaced not too long ago?


Define not too long ago.

 
alexdelzotto
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:22 am

santi319 wrote:
Its unbelivable how AC can make ALG or CMN work (and look at TUN as a potential) but have stayed away from AMM or BEY!

Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.


Royal Jordanian already serves AMM 2 weekly from Montreal.

Trust me AC would love to jump on BEY if they could. But no government will approve that. Back in 2003 AC was days away from launching the flight and it never happened.
 
santi319
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:45 am

alexdelzotto wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Its unbelivable how AC can make ALG or CMN work (and look at TUN as a potential) but have stayed away from AMM or BEY!

Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.


Royal Jordanian already serves AMM 2 weekly from Montreal.

Trust me AC would love to jump on BEY if they could. But no government will approve that. Back in 2003 AC was days away from launching the flight and it never happened.

It makes no sense, BEY serves almost every European Capital, but can’t serve Canada?

I think I know why but thats a whole different (non-aviation) subject...
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:17 am

santi319 wrote:
Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.

Indeed.

I had a business trip in BEY a few years ago. I had a security briefing from my employer before the trip. Let's say there are some intriging aspects pertaining to the airport staffing - and also of its land accesses.

But hey, my trip went extremely well and everyone was very professional. (All the "stakeholders" over there have a vested interest that things goes smoothly I guess)
 
YYZLGA
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:28 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:49 am

YYZORD wrote:
Is there no more space to expand the number of gates and terminal space after this plan?


The current plan would be a pretty gigantic expansion, but there's theoretically nothing stopping them from expanding even further into the infield, subject to the relocation of the AC HQ and Bombardier plant that are currently located there.
 
santi319
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:05 am

ExMilitaryEng wrote:
.

But hey, my trip went extremely well and everyone was very professional. (All the "stakeholders" over there have a vested interest that things goes smoothly I guess)


They are just like that, there wasn’t a hidden agenda. Lebanon is extremely westernized, specially Beirut. The portrait of them by the media and certain Governments is extremely unfair.

Watch some Lebanese series like “Dollar” on Netflix, or simply ask some Lebanese locals about how life is there on Instagram or what not. You’ll all be surprised.

Traveling the world and discovering how false the portrait of a lot of places is, has to be one of the most rewarding things in life.
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:15 am

2019 could be the year when YUL served 20 million passengers for the first time. In 2016 the total was around 16,6 millions and at least half of that growth has been achieved on the International part (not including Transborder).
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:40 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
2019 could be the year when YUL served 20 million passengers for the first time. In 2016 the total was around 16,6 millions and at least half of that growth has been achieved on the International part (not including Transborder).


Not could. Is.

YUL passed 20 million around Dec 20.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/fil ... GFinal.pdf
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:41 pm

jumbojettony wrote:
Just spoke to someone at the airport and they are saying 24R/06L will be fully closed this summer as they redo the surface. Meaning it won't even be the shortened version we have now. Going to be a mess this summer.


That is false.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:48 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Not could. Is.

YUL passed 20 million around Dec 20.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/fil ... GFinal.pdf


Excellent. I didn't saw that. I was cautious since growth is slowing.
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:33 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
jumbojettony wrote:
Just spoke to someone at the airport and they are saying 24R/06L will be fully closed this summer as they redo the surface. Meaning it won't even be the shortened version we have now. Going to be a mess this summer.


That is false.


Good news then! Any idea when 24R should be completed by then?
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 920
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:14 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Skywatcher wrote:
Didn't 24R/06R just get resurfaced not too long ago?


Define not too long ago.



So it was last rebuilt 16 years ago (in 2004). It is concrete so shouldn't it last longer than that?
Like I said, I find the concrete construction quality (on the public side at least-private seems far better) in Montreal in general are below the standards of what I've seen an many other places around the world.

Does anybody have any professional knowledge concerning how long a concrete runway should last before being rebuilt?
 
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TS-IOR
Posts: 3694
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:15 pm

santi319 wrote:
Its unbelivable how AC can make ALG or CMN work (and look at TUN as a potential) but have stayed away from AMM or BEY!

Politics aside we know why but still, would love to see those.


AMM is already served by RJ and didn't grow in years. Still two weekly with capacity shared with DTW. For BEY better asking MEA how they are not catering for the diaspora and beyond. They have a bunch of A330s for Europe and Africa. SkyTeam is for something I guess. Take an Air France out of any Canadian airport and you'll see how many Lebanese and lots of them C/J and W travellers.
 
User avatar
TS-IOR
Posts: 3694
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2001 9:44 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:19 pm

As per Air Senegal I believe there have some potential if they build a reliable West Africa network. AF and SN are being overtaken by RAM as gateway to French speaking Africa.
 
alexdelzotto
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:08 pm

I wonder YUL will be connected to WAW in the next few years. It seems it’s the only destination missing to really complete Montreal’s European destinations.
 
jwjsamster
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:12 am

Re: Future of YUL

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:24 pm

winter wrote:
Planned full build-out of YUL:
Image


Is the Air Canada hanger being demolished? I don't see it anymore...

Also, where are the new de-icing pads going to be?
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:11 am

jwjsamster wrote:
Is the Air Canada hanger being demolished? I don't see it anymore...


Look closer...
 
jumbojettony
Topic Author
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:29 am

Re: Future of YUL

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:09 pm

jwjsamster wrote:
winter wrote:
Planned full build-out of YUL:
Image


Is the Air Canada hanger being demolished? I don't see it anymore...

Also, where are the new de-icing pads going to be?


It is there just the render doesnt have all the colors and logos we are used to seeing.
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:17 pm

jumbojettony wrote:

Good news then! Any idea when 24R should be completed by then?


2021 at the earliest. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 2022.

jwjsamster wrote:

Is the Air Canada hanger being demolished? I don't see it anymore...

Also, where are the new de-icing pads going to be?


AC base is still there. The de-icing pad will need to move further north, closer to the AC base. It will most likely be where those easternmost 8 planes are parked in that image.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:36 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
So it was last rebuilt 16 years ago (in 2004). It is concrete so shouldn't it last longer than that?
Like I said, I find the concrete construction quality (on the public side at least-private seems far better) in Montreal in general are below the standards of what I've seen an many other places around the world.


Do these other places encounter the same sort of weather as YUL?

Is the concrete construction quality in any way impacted by what lead to the Charbonneau Commission?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charbonneau_Commission
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 920
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:19 pm

I have been to many other Canadian airports-the concrete is better.
I just wish that the Quebec government would stop allowing the construction industry to take advantage of taxpayers (I consider the YUL airport organization basically a public entity).Another commission is needed to focus on the poor quality, high costs and inefficiency of public infrastructure projects. It is more complicated than a few organized crime characters and crooked politicians. Of course the labour unions, engineering firms and local suppliers would object but it is they who are the problem.
 
ExMilitaryEng
Posts: 653
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:29 pm

Interesting / intriging comments to say the least.

However, YUL's finances seemed to have been well managed all along. Past capital projects (since the last 25 years or so) have all been pretty much completed on time, on budget and at competitive pricings (if we compare to YYZ by exemple).
Last edited by ExMilitaryEng on Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
basspaul
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Future of YUL

Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:40 pm

I can't say for sure if it's the issue, but by judging by land all around the airport, the airport appears to have been been built on wet/swampy land. Never helpful for slab on grade construction. 16 years with the amount of salt, freeze/thaw cycles and the abuse of landing planes does not seem too terrible to me.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 920
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:55 pm

Sorry guys-the runway projects may be on budget but who says the budget isn't inflated and/or low quality bid guidelines in the first place?
16 years just sounds like not very long for a concrete project like a runway. I wish somebody who has more professional knowledge than myself could offer an unbiased response about what is a "normal" runway lifespan..

If it is swampy land then past construction practices didn't deal with it effectively and/or it was never dealt with correctly (insufficient depth of gravel base etc.).

The trouble with topics like this is the facts are very difficult to uncover. Many people respond purely defensively/emotionally regardless what the facts might be.
 
rampbro
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: Future of YUL

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:39 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
I have been to many other Canadian airports-the concrete is better.
I just wish that the Quebec government would stop allowing the construction industry to take advantage of taxpayers (I consider the YUL airport organization basically a public entity).Another commission is needed to focus on the poor quality, high costs and inefficiency of public infrastructure projects. It is more complicated than a few organized crime characters and crooked politicians. Of course the labour unions, engineering firms and local suppliers would object but it is they who are the problem.


Well, we certainly don't see the level of infrastructure decay, nor the long cycle times for construction in BC. We do have labour unions, engineering firms and local suppliers out here as well.....what am I missing?
 
Thenoflyzone
Posts: 3057
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2001 4:42 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:55 am

Guys, 24R/06L, the current runway being resurfaced, was due for resurfacing.

It’s 24L/06R that was resurfaced 15 or so years ago, and won’t be resurfaced for quite some time, as it’s in good condition.

We’re talking about two different runways here.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
SpaceshipDC10
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:16 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Guys, 24R/06L, the current runway being resurfaced, was due for resurfacing.

It’s 24L/06R that was resurfaced 15 or so years ago, and won’t be resurfaced for quite some time, as it’s in good condition.

We’re talking about two different runways here.


Right. Got completely mixed up by the 06R upthread.
 
Skywatcher
Posts: 920
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 11:19 am

Re: Future of YUL

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:31 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Guys, 24R/06L, the current runway being resurfaced, was due for resurfacing.

It’s 24L/06R that was resurfaced 15 or so years ago, and won’t be resurfaced for quite some time, as it’s in good condition.

We’re talking about two different runways here.


That makes more sense-I would think a rebuilt concrete runway should last for at least 25 years. Maybe ADM (Aeroports de Montréal) are better project managers than other civil entities in Montreal then.

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