Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

ikramerica · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:13 pm

Not a flying into terrain situation by the looks of it, but possibly struck something higher first.

LA Times reporter who lives nearby says he heard an aircraft sputtering and then a boom.

MakeMinesLAX · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:15 pm

Truly a shock.

Flightaware shows a bunch of activity lately for N72EX, including multiple SNA-CMA roundtrips. FlightRadar24 has today's route - there was some unusual circling near Glendale, and an abrupt turn into the hillside in Calabasas.
[EDIT] Having watched playback, the aircraft was maintaining speed and climbing prior to impact, which seems to rule out mechanical issues. Purely conjecture on my part, but it appears to be an attempted turnaround in a tight space due to fuel concerns (from the earlier circling) and/or possible low visibility beyond the pass.

LittleFokker · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:26 pm

Vladex wrote:
I will never fly a copter without a parachute at least .

I know it's too early to know the cause of the accident, but the one picture I have seen of the site showed the crash was on the side of a mountain, and reports are that dense fog was in the area. Whether it was mechanical or pilot error, I think it's safe to say a parachute wouldn't have done a lick of good in this situation.

Jouhou · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:29 pm

As much as I'm not big on following celebrities, this is a pretty shocking one. Also, does anyone have data on the safety of helicopters vs fixed wing aircraft? I get the feeling there's more risk but it doesn't get as much attention due to carrying smaller groups of passengers.

KCaviator · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:35 pm

MakeMinesLAX wrote:
Truly a shock.

Flightaware shows a bunch of activity lately for N72EX, including multiple SNA-CMA roundtrips. FlightRadar24 has today's route - there was some unusual circling near Glendale, and an abrupt turn into the hillside in Calabasas.

There was a sudden and significant climb right before the crash. Wondering if it was the result of a EGPWS warning?

RightRudder · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:36 pm

It was reported that there was dense fog. Is it possible that they hit an electrical wire or tower?

wjcandee · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:36 pm

There's a video circulating that is purporting to show the crash. I can't see it up close, so I don't know if the livery matches.

What I'm watching is a clear tail-rotor failure, mismanaged. Power isn't cut following entry into the spin, aircraft continues to spin and fall, with fireball at the end. Again, don't know if that's in fact this incident. Curious, because with fog and hills, one would expect a CFIT as the cause. On the other hand, the available avionics on an S76 are pretty-advanced...

flybucky · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:37 pm

D L X wrote:
Please everyone, do not spread rumors. Cite sources.

N212R wrote:
If this wasn't a personal tragedy, I would be tempted to laugh. Rumors are the mother's milk of the "entertainment" biz and it's attendant cretins.

Of course tabloids and social media will spread wild, unconfirmed rumors, but that doesn't mean those rumors should be posted here on a.net without citing sources.

BN747 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:40 pm

LittleFokker wrote:
Vladex wrote:
I will never fly a copter without a parachute at least .

I know it's too early to know the cause of the accident, but the one picture I have seen of the site showed the crash was on the side of a mountain, and reports are that dense fog was in the area. Whether it was mechanical or pilot error, I think it's safe to say a parachute wouldn't have done a lick of good in this situation.

That was my 1st reaction when I heard this news, I took my pooch out at 5am and fog was soaking everything, 20-30 visibility - and that's in the basin! In those hills out in Calabasas that fog can pull a SFO number and hang in the hills all day.

I bet this was a factor, I'm waiting hear the time of the crash...that will tell.

I feel bad for the dude in many ways...but this is too soon for someone so young.

BN747

ikramerica · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:40 pm

wjcandee wrote:
There's a video circulating that is purporting to show the crash. I can't see it up close, so I don't know if the livery matches.

What I'm watching is a clear tail-rotor failure, mismanaged. Power isn't cut following entry into the spin, aircraft continues to spin and fall, with fireball at the end. Again, don't know if that's in fact this incident. Curious, because with fog and hills, one would expect a CFIT as the cause. On the other hand, the available avionics on an S76 are pretty-advanced...

The location of impact into a low spot in a valley (pictures I’ve seen from KTLA) doesn’t look like CFIT.

zeke · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:41 pm

RightRudder wrote:
It was reported that there was dense fog. Is it possible that they hit an electrical wire or tower?

The flight path seemed to be following the Ventura Freeway okay....

btfarrwm · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:42 pm

Which ATC station would have control over this flight at the time of the crash?

VapourTrails · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:43 pm

Jouhou wrote:
As much as I'm not big on following celebrities, this is a pretty shocking one.

I had never heard of him, but I acknowledge the grief. Watching the live coverage on ABC News (America). A legend in his game and as a person. Rest In Peace.

D L X · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:44 pm

N212R wrote:
D L X wrote:
Please everyone, do not spread rumors. Cite sources.

If this wasn't a personal tragedy, I would be tempted to laugh.

Rumors are the mother's milk of the "entertainment" biz and it's attendant cretins.

This isn’t an entertainment website.

flybucky · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:47 pm

There were 5 confirmed dead on the flight. According to Woj tweet (extremely reputable NBA reporter), the victims included Kobe, his daughter Gianna, her teammate, and another parent. Presumably the fifth victim was the pilot.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1221537476893925376

Sources: Kobe Bryant was on his way to a travel basketball game with his daughter Gianna when the helicopter crashed. Those aboard the helicopter also included another player and parent.

KCaviator · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:48 pm

[twoid][/twoid]

wjcandee wrote:
There's a video circulating that is purporting to show the crash. I can't see it up close, so I don't know if the livery matches.

What I'm watching is a clear tail-rotor failure, mismanaged. Power isn't cut following entry into the spin, aircraft continues to spin and fall, with fireball at the end. Again, don't know if that's in fact this incident. Curious, because with fog and hills, one would expect a CFIT as the cause. On the other hand, the available avionics on an S76 are pretty-advanced...

You’re saying there’s actuaL, supposed, footage of the crash?

flybucky · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:50 pm

Clackers wrote:
Who the hell takes off in a helicopter in THICK FOG?

Well, the flight took off from Santa Ana, roughly 40 miles away. So it probably was not foggy when it took off from SNA.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N72EX

N212R · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:53 pm

D L X wrote:
N212R wrote:
D L X wrote:
Please everyone, do not spread rumors. Cite sources.

If this wasn't a personal tragedy, I would be tempted to laugh.

Rumors are the mother's milk of the "entertainment" biz and it's attendant cretins.

This isn’t an entertainment website.

And I'm not the ambulance chaser at whom you should be directing that remark... back to aviation.

N292UX · Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:54 pm

I was a Kobe fan growing up. This is beyond heartbreaking.

iseeyyc · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:02 pm

Does anyone publish accident rates for helicopters? Curious to know the comparison per million hours or whatever the metric is vs fixed wing private vs fixed wing commercial. PS> What is going on with the avatars?

32andBelow · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:04 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
Which ATC station would have control over this flight at the time of the crash?

Probably ZLA. I don’t know if SoCal goes that far north. They could have been flying VFR and not talking also.

ikramerica · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:23 pm

zeke wrote:
RightRudder wrote:
It was reported that there was dense fog. Is it possible that they hit an electrical wire or tower?

The flight path seemed to be following the Ventura Freeway okay....

The elevation of the 101 freeway reaches the highest in Socal in Calabassas, and the passage narrows, but I don’t recall powerlines over the freeway.

F9Animal · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:29 pm

[photoid][/photoid]

wjcandee wrote:
There's a video circulating that is purporting to show the crash. I can't see it up close, so I don't know if the livery matches.

What I'm watching is a clear tail-rotor failure, mismanaged. Power isn't cut following entry into the spin, aircraft continues to spin and fall, with fireball at the end. Again, don't know if that's in fact this incident. Curious, because with fog and hills, one would expect a CFIT as the cause. On the other hand, the available avionics on an S76 are pretty-advanced...

Where are you seeing this?

mxaxai · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:34 pm

iseeyyc wrote:
Does anyone publish accident rates for helicopters? Curious to know the comparison per million hours or whatever the metric is vs fixed wing private vs fixed wing commercial. PS> What is going on with the avatars?

Of course someone does:
https://flightsafety.org/helicopter-acc ... ationally/
https://flightsafety.org/2018-data-show ... atalities/
https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-release ... 91114.aspx

2017 numbers in the US:
0.59 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours for helicopters
0.9355 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours for general aviation
0.199 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours for part 135 carriers*
0 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours for part 121 carriers (0.05 in 2018)

* virtually all part 135 accidents are in the on-demand sector, while commuter services are almost as safe as part 121 airlines.

stealth777 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:40 pm

press conference just said 9 souls were on board the helicopter.

Seabear · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:43 pm

LA County Sheriff just stated in a press briefing that 9 souls were on board per the manifest. No confirmation was provided that Kobe Bryant or his family was on board.

Cadet985 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:45 pm

LA County Sheriff reports nine fatalities. Just watched the press conference.

SocalApproach · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:47 pm

not saying this is what happened, I am generally curious as I know nothing about helicopters. what solutions are there if you have an engine failure at altitude In a helicopter? I’m sure the most novice traveler probably thinks if an airliner loses its engines it will fall out of the sky. Obviously not accurate but what about rotor aircraft? They don’t have the ability to glide, correct?

Revelation · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 pm

Take it for what it is worth:

Eyewitnesses also tell us that they heard the helicopter's engine sputtering before it went down.

Ref: https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/26/kobe-bry ... calabasas/

Witness Colin Storm was in his living room in Calabasas when he heard "what sounded like a low-flying airplane or helicopter."

"Ït was very foggy so we couldn't see anything," he said. "But then we heard some sputtering, and then a boom."

A short time later the fog cleared a bit and Storm could see smoke rising from the hillside in front of his home.

Ref: https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lake ... a/2298383/

Around the time of the crash, L.A. Times reporter Richard Winton reported that the mountains were “fogged in.”

“I heard the plane splutter and then a boom," he tweeted.

rEF: https://www.foxnews.com/sports/californ ... s-reported

So, two named sources reporting a sputtering engine, again, for whatever that is worth.

continental004 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 pm

RIP Kobe and Gianna .... he is a true hero to so many of us here in LAX

Cadet985 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:48 pm

Just watched the press conference. LACOSD reporting NINE onboard.

Cadet985 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:50 pm

Seabear wrote:
LA County Sheriff just stated in a press briefing that 9 souls were on board per the manifest. No confirmation was provided that Kobe Bryant or his family was on board.

I noticed he didn’t say Kobe Bryant was aboard, but they did mention a park where people could go to pay respects. That seems to me like he was saying it without saying it.

Marc

MO11 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:50 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
Which ATC station would have control over this flight at the time of the crash?

If flying VFR, then none.

Revelation · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:54 pm

https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/ ... 9058155520 is a twitter thread with a lot of info in it.

Note they report the sputtering engine stuff too, and that was two hours before they knew who was on it.

ATCJesus · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:56 pm

Looks like the pilot requested SVFR and got lost in the cloud and tried to get out. This is speculation, but would be a poor mistake by the pilot.

Here is the audio from the pilot and ATC painting the picture.

https://forums.liveatc.net/atcaviation- ... ter-crash/

MakeMinesLAX · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:56 pm

MO11 wrote:
btfarrwm wrote:
Which ATC station would have control over this flight at the time of the crash?

If flying VFR, then none.

Alluding back to my earlier post, here is the FlightRadar24 trace, which seems to support a VFR operation:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n72ex#23a8271e

dragon6172 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:57 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
not saying this is what happened, I am generally curious as I know nothing about helicopters. what solutions are there if you have an engine failure at altitude In a helicopter? I’m sure the most novice traveler probably thinks if an airliner loses its engines it will fall out of the sky. Obviously not accurate but what about rotor aircraft? They don’t have the ability to glide, correct?

Twin engine helicopter loss of one engine in forward flight is not a big deal. Just need to do a no hover landing, typically.

This of course assumes the engine loss wasnt catastrophic and damaged the second engine. Loss of all engines pretty much means auto rotation, have to be quick to find a place to land and then flare at the bottom to stop forward airspeed and descent rate, using the inertia built up in the rotor system. Higher altitude the better for engine out scenarios

Revelation · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:58 pm

MO11 wrote:
btfarrwm wrote:
Which ATC station would have control over this flight at the time of the crash?

If flying VFR, then none.

https://twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/ ... 9058155520 gives us a map from FR24:

And in the same thread a profile:

So it seems they were squawking a code, at least.

NWNightfly · Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:59 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
Seabear wrote:
LA County Sheriff just stated in a press briefing that 9 souls were on board per the manifest. No confirmation was provided that Kobe Bryant or his family was on board.

I noticed he didn’t say Kobe Bryant was aboard, but they did mention a park where people could go to pay respects. That seems to me like he was saying it without saying it.

Marc

While they’re not identifying any of the victims, the fact that he and his daughter were due to show up for their team's nearby game at noon, and never arrived, pretty much says everything. The only question is the identity of the (apparent) other seven people on board.

zeke · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:08 pm

Seabear wrote:
LA County Sheriff just stated in a press briefing that 9 souls were on board per the manifest. No confirmation was provided that Kobe Bryant or his family was on board.

They slammed TMZ for their inappropriate information they have released. Anything ease is unfounded speculation which could actually distress people. Their families deserve the respect to be notified in private.

There is no confirmation who was onboard, and none will be made until the coroner has positively identified the victims and families notified.

Revelation wrote:
So, two named sources reporting a sputtering engine, again, for whatever that is worth.

FWIW I think that information is garbage. The S76 is a large helicopter with two turbo shaft jet engines. It will not “sputter” like a world war 1 piston radial engine.

freerover · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:09 pm

KCaviator wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
wjcandee wrote:
There's a video circulating that is purporting to show the crash. I can't see it up close, so I don't know if the livery matches.

What I'm watching is a clear tail-rotor failure, mismanaged. Power isn't cut following entry into the spin, aircraft continues to spin and fall, with fireball at the end. Again, don't know if that's in fact this incident. Curious, because with fog and hills, one would expect a CFIT as the cause. On the other hand, the available avionics on an S76 are pretty-advanced...

You’re saying there’s actuaL, supposed, footage of the crash?

That footage isn't this crash. The fog would have been too thick for anyone to get video footage.

vfw614 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:09 pm

Almost an hour for going from Santa Ana to Calabasas seems like a very long time. Wonder what they were doing in the Glendale area where they descended and slowed down? Waiting for better visibility?

RightRudder · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:10 pm

Jeppesen chart indicates a tower at 2805'.

mxaxai · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:11 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
not saying this is what happened, I am generally curious as I know nothing about helicopters. what solutions are there if you have an engine failure at altitude In a helicopter? I’m sure the most novice traveler probably thinks if an airliner loses its engines it will fall out of the sky. Obviously not accurate but what about rotor aircraft? They don’t have the ability to glide, correct?

Rotor aircraft can do something called "auto rotation", though it's supposedly a lot more tricky than a gliding airliner.

If a helicopter has a major parts failure though, like a failure of the main gearbox or the tail rotor shaft, it's going to crash. A comparable failure on an airliner is "merely" an engine failure.

dragon6172 · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:12 pm

zeke wrote:

FWIW I think that information is garbage. The S76 is a large helicopter with two turbo shaft jet engines. It will not “sputter” like a world war 1 piston radial engine.

Agreed. Personally, I feel the "sputtering" they heard was the aircraft hitting the ground.

ikramerica · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:14 pm

Flying visual with 101 as guide in fog, reaching Calabassas means fog is thicker as it’s elevation over 1000. At Las Virgines road, the freeway turns and the intersection is acute. It’s possible to follow the wrong road in the fog.

FTMCPIUS · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:22 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
not saying this is what happened, I am generally curious as I know nothing about helicopters. what solutions are thereif you have an engine failure at altitude In a helicopter? I’m sure the most novice traveler probably thinks if an airliner loses its engines it will fall out of the sky. Obviously not accurate but what about rotor aircraft? They don’t have the ability to glide, correct?

If weight is too high for the remaining engine and you're high enough, autorotation. I know because I was in a Bell Jet Ranger in 1978 that experienced engine failure. We were at about 1,000 ft. and the pilot told us he was putting it into auto-rotate, and that it would be a hard landing but we would be OK as long as the blades didn't hit anything.

He was right although it wasn't as hard as I thought is was going to be. We landed in a park and almost hit a tree. The pilot said that if that occurred at a much lower altitude things would have not turned out very well.

zeke · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:22 pm

RightRudder wrote:

Jeppesen chart indicates a tower at 2805'.

No that’s not where it came down, just to the left of the box that says “ CTC SOCAL APP 128.75”.

Just south of the Venture Fey, between the fork you see of Las Virgenes Rd and Lost Hills Rd heading down to Malibu.

Their flight path was following the freeway west.

32andBelow · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:33 pm

ATCJesus wrote:
Looks like the pilot requested SVFR and got lost in the cloud and tried to get out. This is speculation, but would be a poor mistake by the pilot.

Here is the audio from the pilot and ATC painting the picture.

https://forums.liveatc.net/atcaviation- ... ter-crash/

What do you mean SVFR? He wasn’t transmitting a surface area. He could have requested VFR flight following or IFR but not just special VFR in the middle of enroute class E/G airspace.

ATCJesus · Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:40 pm

32andBelow wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:
Looks like the pilot requested SVFR and got lost in the cloud and tried to get out. This is speculation, but would be a poor mistake by the pilot.

Here is the audio from the pilot and ATC painting the picture.

https://forums.liveatc.net/atcaviation- ... ter-crash/

What do you mean SVFR? He wasn’t transmitting a surface area. He could have requested VFR flight following or IFR but not just special VFR in the middle of enroute class E/G airspace.

I’m high altitude only, but I at least here him say he’s either SVFR and requesting a transition or he’s VFR requesting an SVFR transition.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net