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United787
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:51 pm

Revelation wrote:
werdywerd wrote:
Very Detailed Eyewitness account of the accident

https://youtu.be/28QYy8lrww8

Indeed, the interview subject is a professional sound engineer, is a local very familiar with the vicinity of the crash, heard the last flight and the crash, and is wearing a TWA cap.

Not sure who could be a better witness.


The detail he provided was quite amazing.

If you go on this witness account alone, it supports the theory of CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) due to disorientation in the low clouds/fog. Also, seems to rule out mechanical issue.

It seems like they were at a safe altitude had he stayed there. But he descended, assuming trying to get below the clouds, one of the fatal mistakes.
 
SuperiorPilotMe
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:52 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
For reference Cory Lidle when his aircraft (don’t remember if it was a plane or helicopter) crashed it was definitely discussed in civil aviation.



SR-22, also in IMR, CFIT straight into a skyscraper.
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
SuperiorPilotMe
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
Indeed, the interview subject is a professional sound engineer, is a local very familiar with the vicinity of the crash, heard the last flight and the crash, and is wearing a TWA cap.


Good point. I’ll be sure to put on my Ace Combat(R) 6: Fires of Liberation(TM) baseball cap so it’s clear I’m intimately knowledgeable about Pentagon operations.
Stop the stupids!- Claus Kellerman
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:05 pm

btfarrwm wrote:
Interesting that they never contacted SoCal after being handed off from Van Nuys ATC. It would be interesting to see they radar track overlaid on Google Maps to see how closely they were following the freeways.

You can see that on FR24. (It may help to change increase the Brightness of the map in the FR24 Settings). They were following 101 exactly. Very low, sometimes as low as 138 ft above ground (see the Google Earth plots that have been posted).

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... x#23a8271e
 
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casinterest
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:39 pm

flybucky wrote:
btfarrwm wrote:
Interesting that they never contacted SoCal after being handed off from Van Nuys ATC. It would be interesting to see they radar track overlaid on Google Maps to see how closely they were following the freeways.

You can see that on FR24. (It may help to change increase the Brightness of the map in the FR24 Settings). They were following 101 exactly. Very low, sometimes as low as 138 ft above ground (see the Google Earth plots that have been posted).

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... x#23a8271e


That is quite a turn. The investigation will be looking at if they got disoriented or something else happened?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:40 pm

ikramerica wrote:
In this case it’s a wealthy person saving some time by flying instead of driving to a business he built far from where he lives because he can. Then again, commuting by car that far frequently also greatly increases your chance of a fatal accident.

I had these same thoughts.

The man builds his house south of LA and his academy north of LA, seems to be asking for problems IMO.

I've seen too many big names die in helicopter crashes (Stevie Ray Vaughn came immediately to mind but https://www.ranker.com/list/famous-peop ... /reference lists many others with Bill Graham and Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha standing out to me) to make me think the helicopter is risky. I get it, the automobile has its risks as well, but when a helicopter crashes it's got pretty bad survive-ability.

Of course we don't know if the pilot was the aggressive party or if it was someone else. However they were willing to accept some pretty low minimums, one both LAPD and LA Sheriffs Dept said they would not fly in.
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:54 pm

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Aesma
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:00 pm

I remember a few years ago that a new generation of autopilot for helicopters was able to hover, any information on that ?

I also know some GA aircraft have now a button you can press that will put the aircraft straight and level, in case you're disoriented.

Of course you must first recognize you're in trouble.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Revelation
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:07 pm

https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/27/kobe-bry ... slow-down/ (yes, TMZ) says:

The pilots we spoke with say it's clear based on the abrupt change on the flight tracker ... the pilot panicked and quickly ascended to 2,000 feet. We're told he cleared a mountain range by 100 feet, and the pilots we spoke with say he was so low he almost certainly saw the tops of the mountain.

The pilots we spoke with -- all of whom have extensive experience -- say based on the flight tracker and the accident scene, they believe the pilot felt he had cleared all of the mountains and was proceeding to head back when he hit another mountain. The pilot clearly did not know there were mountains ahead because he actually descended from 2,000 feet to 1,700 feet .. presumably to go under the fog.

Even more baffling, we've been told the pilot was extremely experienced flying in that area -- and was even a flight instructor. One seasoned helicopter pilot told TMZ, he could not understand why Kobe's pilot would have maintained a speed of 161 knots in such dense fog. One of the benefits of a helicopter is you can go much slower -- even 15 mph -- to gingerly avoid terrain if you're uncertain.

Interesting details.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:10 pm

D L X wrote:
bourbon wrote:
Daughters were on board

Source?

Daughters on board does not add up.


Why wouldn’t it add up that his daughter was on board? It makes sense that his family would also travel with him at times. Idk why that seemed so strange to you.....
 
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Revelation
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:13 pm

airplanecrazy wrote:
I found publicly published granular FlightRadar24 data published here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe ... ter-crash/

and used the ATSB KML Creator found here:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/utilities/atsb- ... nload.aspx

to create a granular KML of the flight. Here is what the last part looked like (please be patient as I find a site to host the image):

Image

Is this consistent with the "climbed to 2000, cleared a mountain by 100 ft then turned to go home at 161 knots" statements in the TMZ article above?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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airplanecrazy
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
Is this consistent with the "climbed to 2000, cleared a mountain by 100 ft then turned to go home at 161 knots" statements in the TMZ article above?


It is more consistent with cleared a mountain pass by 100', climbed to 2000', turned to the left, then descended rapidly (to go home?) Here is my representation of the helicopter path at about 100' above ground going across the mountain pass. Almost hit the tree! I am a bit surprised that no one has reported seeing the helicopter going across the pass on Hwy 101. Probably is also indicative of the poor visibility.

Image
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:17 pm

bluejuice wrote:
It will take a while for the official findings to be released but there are always lessons.

Hopefully, the NTSB should be releasing a preliminary report in 10 days, which would be next Wed Feb 5.
 
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william
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:21 pm

Revelation wrote:
airplanecrazy wrote:
I found publicly published granular FlightRadar24 data published here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe ... ter-crash/

and used the ATSB KML Creator found here:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/utilities/atsb- ... nload.aspx

to create a granular KML of the flight. Here is what the last part looked like (please be patient as I find a site to host the image):

Image

Is this consistent with the "climbed to 2000, cleared a mountain by 100 ft then turned to go home at 161 knots" statements in the TMZ article above?


No it doesn't, its looks to me like mechanical failure of some type. He crashed in the valley, according to the routing he didn't scrape or make contact until he crashed. Did he go into a quick descent in a fog only to break out at 161 knots to realize oops, there is the ground? No one is explaining the quick descent since apparently he did not hit anything before it.

Alot of attention has been paid to the loss of Kobe and his daughter (at least on Sports Radio understandably) but there are two sets of parents who are not famous who lost their children too . So sad, so sad for all involved.
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:22 pm

shaner82 wrote:
So if the pilot of a helo is flying toward low terrain and he realizes it, why not stop forward momentum as quick as possible to avoid a collision. Could then hover or even fly backwards until at a safe elevation.

Of course the pilot would need to be able to stop forward momentum in time, which may or may not be possible. Again, these are questions based on my ignorance. Just trying to understand different possibilities

I had the same noob question too. According to an aviation expert Blancolirio's video ( go to 3:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttx236mUIE ), without visual reference to the ground, helicopters cannot hover. They have to fly like an airplane.

I still don't quite get it though. I can understand that they cannot hover stationary in place without ground reference, they might be drifting around without knowing. But like you said, can't helicopters quickly slow down their forward speed and climb? Even if they are drifting, at least it's better than flying 100 kts in fog.
 
Gtep
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:27 pm

https://ibb.co/QfdZr0t

Actual equipment on board (N76Ill) when sold in 2015.
 
freerover
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:28 pm

Revelation wrote:
https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/27/kobe-bryant-helicopter-pilot-misjudged-terrain-slow-down/ (yes, TMZ) says:

The pilots we spoke with say it's clear based on the abrupt change on the flight tracker ... the pilot panicked and quickly ascended to 2,000 feet. We're told he cleared a mountain range by 100 feet, and the pilots we spoke with say he was so low he almost certainly saw the tops of the mountain.

The pilots we spoke with -- all of whom have extensive experience -- say based on the flight tracker and the accident scene, they believe the pilot felt he had cleared all of the mountains and was proceeding to head back when he hit another mountain. The pilot clearly did not know there were mountains ahead because he actually descended from 2,000 feet to 1,700 feet .. presumably to go under the fog.

Even more baffling, we've been told the pilot was extremely experienced flying in that area -- and was even a flight instructor. One seasoned helicopter pilot told TMZ, he could not understand why Kobe's pilot would have maintained a speed of 161 knots in such dense fog. One of the benefits of a helicopter is you can go much slower -- even 15 mph -- to gingerly avoid terrain if you're uncertain.

Interesting details.


but how confident can you be that all the information at the end of the flight on flight tracker is accurate? Seems like we have to wait until data from the copter is analyzed.
 
D L X
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:41 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
D L X wrote:
bourbon wrote:
Daughters were on board

Source?

Daughters on board does not add up.


Why wouldn’t it add up that his daughter was on board? It makes sense that his family would also travel with him at times. Idk why that seemed so strange to you.....

Because initial reports (since proven wrong) said there were 5 fatalities. Kobe does not pilot the helicopter, leaving enough for 4 passengers. Kobe has four daughters, which would have made 5 passengers. So, something had to be wrong: either there weren’t 5 dead (turns out to be true), and/or not all of Kobe’s daughters were on the helicopter (also turned out to be true).

That point exemplified what was wrong with the spreading of rumors early on.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:42 pm

william wrote:
Revelation wrote:
airplanecrazy wrote:
I found publicly published granular FlightRadar24 data published here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe ... ter-crash/

and used the ATSB KML Creator found here:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/utilities/atsb- ... nload.aspx

to create a granular KML of the flight. Here is what the last part looked like (please be patient as I find a site to host the image):

Image

Is this consistent with the "climbed to 2000, cleared a mountain by 100 ft then turned to go home at 161 knots" statements in the TMZ article above?


No it doesn't, its looks to me like mechanical failure of some type. He crashed in the valley, according to the routing he didn't scrape or make contact until he crashed. Did he go into a quick descent in a fog only to break out at 161 knots to realize oops, there is the ground? No one is explaining the quick descent since apparently he did not hit anything before it.

Alot of attention has been paid to the loss of Kobe and his daughter (at least on Sports Radio understandably) but there are two sets of parents who are not famous who lost their children too . So sad, so sad for all involved.


The pilot climbed above the elevation of a peak he passed to the right above the highway.

Then he descended, some have speculated here, to go below the weather and see the ground again, not realizing there was another "peak" in front, or maybe not realizing he was turning.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:03 pm

airplanecrazy wrote:
I found publicly published granular FlightRadar24 data published here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe ... ter-crash/
and used the ATSB KML Creator found here:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/utilities/atsb- ... nload.aspx
to create a granular KML of the flight.

Thank for you creating that. I didn't realize FR24's KML didn't have the granular data. I'm not sure why didn't just generate the granular KML as well.

Would you be willing to share your KML file?
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:08 pm

airplanecrazy wrote:
I found publicly published granular FlightRadar24 data published here:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/kobe ... ter-crash/

and used the ATSB KML Creator found here:
https://www.atsb.gov.au/utilities/atsb- ... nload.aspx

to create a granular KML of the flight. Here is what the last part looked like (please be patient as I find a site to host the image):

Image


Looking at that, I see pulled up into cloud, was either disoriented by rapid transition to instruments or tried to get back below the cloud. The left turn looks like disoriented. If as someone posted, “cleared to 2,000’” could have been trying to get an IFR clearance, received a hard altitude, disoriented and LOC.

Frank Tallman, famous LA movie stunt pilot, crashed and died in the same area, having lived there his whole life. Experience is meaningless.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:20 pm

flybucky wrote:
I had the same noob question too. According to an aviation expert Blancolirio's video ( go to 3:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cttx236mUIE ), without visual reference to the ground, helicopters cannot hover. They have to fly like an airplane.

I still don't quite get it though. I can understand that they cannot hover stationary in place without ground reference, they might be drifting around without knowing. But like you said, can't helicopters quickly slow down their forward speed and climb? Even if they are drifting, at least it's better than flying 100 kts in fog.

Vertigo / spacial disorientation is the same problem in an airplane or a helicopter.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... no-vertigo is a good explainer.

Why they didn't slow down is a different question.

The TMZ link above seems to suggest the pilot thought he was clear of obstructions and was going to head back home, so he just accelerated as one would do if one felt safe.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
cuisinart
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:28 pm

Hey guys, longtime lurker, love the discussions here. Quick question as CFIT due to loss of visual contact is the leading hypothesis based on available data:
We all have GPS on our phones which can show a live map of terrain, roads, and our speed and orientation while traveling, even altitude. Why would something like this not be a standard equipment to fall back on for helis or light craft caught in unexpectedly bad conditions?
Likewise, many are saying that hovering isn't possible without sight of land, but even cheap quads are able to hover on their own with a combination of inertia and GPS inputs. I would think an indicator based on the same signals could allow manual hovering in 0 visibility, no?
 
airplanecrazy
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:29 pm

flybucky wrote:
Would you be willing to share your KML file?


Sure

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ai5ul4veNOgHhYlk9jfjGyiqVcvZYQ?e=3GEqVw
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:32 pm

freerover wrote:
but how confident can you be that all the information at the end of the flight on flight tracker is accurate? Seems like we have to wait until data from the copter is analyzed.

IMO, I would be 95% confident of the flight tracker data. The altitude, speed, location data is not estimated by radar or the flight tracker. Those come directly from the onboard instruments and are broadcasted by ADS-B system.

Now, they may be able to get more detailed data from the heli, but I don't think it would invalidate the ADS-B, it would just give more info.

However, I saw some sources say that on the S-76B FDR and CVR are not standard (like they are on S-76D). If not, then they may not be able to get much more data from the heli.
 
MontaukMonster
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:17 pm

Why would this pilot be so reckless as to fly towards rising terrain with low visibility and low ceilings? Complete incompetence.
 
airplanecrazy
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:26 pm

MontaukMonster wrote:
Why would this pilot be so reckless as to fly towards rising terrain with low visibility and low ceilings? Complete incompetence.


Or mechanical failure, or disorientation, or...
 
avi8tir
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:32 pm

Here's a question.... I am in instrument rated private pilot SEL. I have been around helo's, but not intimately familiar with their normal operations.

Why not file an IFR flight plan SNA - CMA and shoot the ILS into CMA? With ceilings as low as they were and knowing you would have to navigate through a canyon. I know helo pilots like to scud run, but would an IFR flight plan be that uncommon? Assuming the aircraft and pilot are rated for it, obviously.
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amcnd
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:34 pm

That type of helicopter have a “RA” Radar altimeter? Or EGPWS??
 
flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:39 pm

NTSB will be having a media briefing at 4:00pm PST (in about 20 mins).

I assume the local news will be streaming it live. Anyone have links?

https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/statu ... 2317023232
 
MontaukMonster
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:44 pm

The regulations for special VFR require the pilot to remain clear of clouds. This flight did not and had a predictable outcome.
 
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SuperGee
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:00 am

Here is some more detail on the pilot's background. He apparently is the only pilot Kobe would let fly him:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/who-was-a ... pter-crash

>>After learning to fly, Zobayan worked at Group 3 as a flight instructor. One of his students there, Darren Kemp, told the Los Angeles Times that Zobayan had worked as Bryant’s private pilot for some time. “[Bryant] doesn’t let anyone else fly him around but Ara,” Kemp told the paper.<<


https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... ter-crash/

>>Ara Zobayan, the pilot of the helicopter, taught other aspiring pilots how to fly “and was very much loved in the aviation community,” Christina Pascucci of KTLA-TV — herself a licensed pilot — tweeted Sunday night.

Friends have identified the pilot as Ara Zobayan. He taught aspiring heli pilots to fly and was very much loved in the aviation community. They wrote “rest easy as you take your final flight to heaven.”@KTLA #KobeBryant pic.twitter.com https://t.co/8pQh9eNJTk
— Christina Pascucci (@ChristinaKTLA) January 27, 2020....

.....Zobayan was an “amazing person and an amazing pilot,” Margaret Bray, a restaurant owner on Santa Catalina Island who had flown many times with him, told the Orange County Register.

Zobayan worked for Group 3 Aviation, which said in a statement that he came to the company in 1998 to learn how to fly helicopters after being captivated during a sightseeing flight at the Grand Canyon.

“Ara worked hard in other businesses to save enough money to pay for training. Flying was his life’s passion,” owners Peter and Claudia Lowry said in the statement. The owners said they were heartbroken over Zobayan’s death.<<
Last edited by SuperGee on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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jelpee
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:01 am

I did not see a response to another poster asking this question:

For an aircraft such as the S76 and for a celebrity client such as this, shouldn't they have had 2 pilots aboard? In my experience, most corporate clients require 2 engines and 2 pilots? I realize the S76 could be operated by 1 pilot, but it would have been an extra measure of safety to have another set of eyes, ears and hands in the cockpit.

Jehan
Airliners.net Crew - Photo Screener
 
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DL717
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:04 am

MrBretz wrote:
Looking at the track, it appears the pilot, after leaving Glendale, pretty much lined up on the 101 but instead of continuing on, he made two left turns into a hillside. Maybe he got lost or had mechanical problems?

I wonder if any driver on the 101 at the time could tell us about visibility. I know is was foggy in Orange County but we had at least a couple miles of visibility where I live. But the day before we only had a few hundred feet in the AM.


This is what’s weird. How do you go from following the 101 almost perfectly to making a sharp left into the ground? I read somewhere the final decent rate was on the order of 4000 feet per minute.
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reality
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:13 am

flybucky wrote:
NTSB will be having a media briefing at 4:00pm PST (in about 20 mins).

I assume the local news will be streaming it live. Anyone have links?

https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/statu ... 2317023232


Now at: https://www.foxla.com/live
 
LTC8K6
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:20 am

NTSB asking for photos taken near the area around the time of the crash. Trying to get pics of the weather.
 
Deanger
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:23 am

I'm curious why a pilot this experienced would tell ATC they were climbing to avoid a cloud layer and then stop the climb by choice... Assuming what the NTSB said about his final radio call, it would seem he WASN'T going to try to follow roads any more, wouldn't it?
 
airplanecrazy
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:23 am

NTSB says helicopter didn't have FDR or CVR.
 
dragon6172
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:26 am

MontaukMonster wrote:
The regulations for special VFR require the pilot to remain clear of clouds. This flight did not and had a predictable outcome.

Special VFR only applied to this flight as they went thru the Burbank Class C and Van Nuys Class D airspace. Once they were following the 101 into the mountains west of Van Nuys regular VFR rules applied
Last edited by dragon6172 on Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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flybucky
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:31 am

NTSB Media Briefing by Jennifer Homendy from NTSB

* 2 Pratt & Whitney engines
* Asked public for photos of the weather in the area [email protected]
* FBI there to help collect evidence, no criminal investigation.
* Circling was to wait for SVFR approval.
* Pilot requested flight following to Camarillo.
* Pilot told ATC he was climbing to avoid cloud layer, no reply after that.
* Last radar contact 9:45am [matches ADS-B]
* Another press briefing tomorrow.
* NTSB will be on scene for 5 days.

Q&A

* What is flight following? radar assistance for the flight.
* Debris field about 500-600 ft. Fuselage, main rotor, tail in separate places
* No black box, no CVR, no FDR. (not required)
* Only an ipad for flight planning.
* Impact crater is 1085 ft above sea level
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15087
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:52 am

MontaukMonster wrote:
Why would this pilot be so reckless as to fly towards rising terrain with low visibility and low ceilings? Complete incompetence.

The rise is gradual so the clouds get thicker and that area is the pinchpoint for terrain. We will never know but it looks like his plan was to turn around over the flat area that’s populated but got disoriented.

The sad thing is there are plenty of flat empty fields right there to set down in.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:55 am

MontaukMonster wrote:
Why would this pilot be so reckless as to fly towards rising terrain with low visibility and low ceilings? Complete incompetence.


Are you a pilot? Do you have experience “scud running”?
 
Chemist
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:56 am

avi8tir wrote:
Here's a question.... I am in instrument rated private pilot SEL. I have been around helo's, but not intimately familiar with their normal operations.

Why not file an IFR flight plan SNA - CMA and shoot the ILS into CMA? With ceilings as low as they were and knowing you would have to navigate through a canyon. I know helo pilots like to scud run, but would an IFR flight plan be that uncommon? Assuming the aircraft and pilot are rated for it, obviously.


CMA doesn't have an ILS, they have an RNAV and a VOR approach I believe.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5602
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:58 am

avi8tir wrote:
Here's a question.... I am in instrument rated private pilot SEL. I have been around helo's, but not intimately familiar with their normal operations.

Why not file an IFR flight plan SNA - CMA and shoot the ILS into CMA? With ceilings as low as they were and knowing you would have to navigate through a canyon. I know helo pilots like to scud run, but would an IFR flight plan be that uncommon? Assuming the aircraft and pilot are rated for it, obviously.


Helicopters default to VFR operations, by their nature. IFR flight is not the regular way of doing business; many IR helicopter pilots don’t get a lot of actual IMC time and often aren’t current for IFR because VMC is the default. Even the NYC area helo operators default to VFR because they use the Manhattan helipads which aren’t IFR.

GF
 
User avatar
Revelation
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Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:02 am

flybucky wrote:
* Circling was to wait for SVFR approval.

Interesting that this was clarified, some reports had this as "circling waiting for the fog to clear" yet ATC said all along that the helo was to stay clear of the controlled airspace till SVFR was granted.
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PC12Fan
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:03 am

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
For reference Cory Lidle when his aircraft (don’t remember if it was a plane or helicopter) crashed it was definitely discussed in civil aviation.



SR-22, also in IMR, CFIT straight into a skyscraper.


My apologies if this is off topic. Weather was a factor, but not the main cause. They simply messed up.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-release ... _York.aspx
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
PC12Fan
Posts: 2133
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:50 pm

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:06 am

SuperiorPilotMe wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Indeed, the interview subject is a professional sound engineer, is a local very familiar with the vicinity of the crash, heard the last flight and the crash, and is wearing a TWA cap.


Good point. I’ll be sure to put on my Ace Combat(R) 6: Fires of Liberation(TM) baseball cap so it’s clear I’m intimately knowledgeable about Pentagon operations.


I'm having doubts you even watched the clip.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
L0VE2FLY
Posts: 1011
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:54 pm

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:18 am

How often do people of Kobe stature choose to be flown by just 1 pilot? What if the pilot becomes incapacitated? Almost all aircraft have a 2 crew cockpit, the S-76 certainly does.
 
MontaukMonster
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:41 pm

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:21 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MontaukMonster wrote:
Why would this pilot be so reckless as to fly towards rising terrain with low visibility and low ceilings? Complete incompetence.


Are you a pilot? Do you have experience “scud running”?

Fixed wing CFII for over 20 years and no I have never scud run.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3532
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:27 am

What are the standards for GPWS on rotary-wing aircraft, as opposed to fixed-wing? I ask because this is looking more and more like a controlled flight into terrain incident.
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