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N171DN
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Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:47 pm

Hi guys!

Flightradar24 for a short time yesterday showed that the last time N171DN (29.8 year old 767-300ER with PW engines) flew was January 5th if this year. It flew ATL-MCI. Is it in for some sort of maintenance, or is it being stored at MCI?

Thanks!
 
hagela
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:39 pm

There is a repair station at MCI so it's probably in for a check. 22 days doesn't seem unreasonable.

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Spacepope
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:49 pm

She's one of the very highest hour 767s in existence, so retirement is a possibility. In April 2019 she had 132,000 hours and 19,000 cycles on her. I'd add at least 3000 hours since then and now.
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SteelChair
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:39 pm

N171DN wrote:
Hi guys!

Flightradar24 for a short time yesterday showed that the last time N171DN (29.8 year old 767-300ER with PW engines) flew was January 5th if this year. It flew ATL-MCI. Is it in for some sort of maintenance, or is it being stored at MCI?

Thanks!


I dunno but you have an interesting screen name!
 
asaad11
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:49 pm

N171DN is in for a heavy check
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:51 pm

We heard a couple months ago that all the -300ERs were going to keep on trucking for a while, which was a change from past plans. 140k hours or more seems entirely possible. These are the hours leaders in the global 767 fleet.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:23 pm

asaad11 wrote:
N171DN is in for a heavy check


Holy moly - this on top of learning that the 76T's (built 2000-01) will be the first to go.

Unless they got an extremely good offer from some cargo operation for the 76T's, I don't see why it would make more sense putting well-used 171DN through another HMV instead of her decade younger Y2K-era counterparts. :?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
strangeplanes
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:27 pm

N171DN wrote:
Hi guys!

Flightradar24 for a short time yesterday showed that the last time N171DN (29.8 year old 767-300ER with PW engines) flew was January 5th if this year. It flew ATL-MCI. Is it in for some sort of maintenance, or is it being stored at MCI?

Thanks!

Plane is sitting in a super hangar undergoing maintenance. Source: my eyes
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:57 pm

seabosdca wrote:
We heard a couple months ago that all the -300ERs were going to keep on trucking for a while, which was a change from past plans. 140k hours or more seems entirely possible. These are the hours leaders in the global 767 fleet.


Not all the -300ERs are sticking around. Some will still be retired over the next few years, although I believe something like 32 of them are supposed to get an interior refurbishment and stay in the fleet a while longer.
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N649DL
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:55 pm

FSDan wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
We heard a couple months ago that all the -300ERs were going to keep on trucking for a while, which was a change from past plans. 140k hours or more seems entirely possible. These are the hours leaders in the global 767 fleet.


Not all the -300ERs are sticking around. Some will still be retired over the next few years, although I believe something like 32 of them are supposed to get an interior refurbishment and stay in the fleet a while longer.


I wonder: Delta has 2x 763 (Non-ERs) in storage delivered in 1998 and 1999. How hard would it be to convert them to ERs or put them back into service for short haul TATL routes?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:21 pm

N649DL wrote:

I wonder: Delta has 2x 763 (Non-ERs) in storage delivered in 1998 and 1999. How hard would it be to convert them to ERs or put them back into service for short haul TATL routes?


I believe 1403 and 1404 have both been scrapped.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
N649DL
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:55 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
N649DL wrote:

I wonder: Delta has 2x 763 (Non-ERs) in storage delivered in 1998 and 1999. How hard would it be to convert them to ERs or put them back into service for short haul TATL routes?


I believe 1403 and 1404 have both been scrapped.


Both ships say stored and one (ER) delivered in 2000 went to the China Air Force: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:20 pm

strangeplanes wrote:
N171DN wrote:
Hi guys!

Flightradar24 for a short time yesterday showed that the last time N171DN (29.8 year old 767-300ER with PW engines) flew was January 5th if this year. It flew ATL-MCI. Is it in for some sort of maintenance, or is it being stored at MCI?

Thanks!

Plane is sitting in a super hangar undergoing maintenance. Source: my eyes


Delta is also sending their 767-300ERs to ILN for maintenance. Recently 156DL, 155DL and 152DL. Currently, 189DN is there. Average time there is about 6 weeks.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:29 pm

N649DL wrote:
DL_Mech wrote:
N649DL wrote:

I wonder: Delta has 2x 763 (Non-ERs) in storage delivered in 1998 and 1999. How hard would it be to convert them to ERs or put them back into service for short haul TATL routes?


I believe 1403 and 1404 have both been scrapped.


Both ships say stored and one (ER) delivered in 2000 went to the China Air Force: https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Delta-Air-Lines


Both have been deregistered with the FAA.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?nNumberTxt=143da

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?nNumberTxt=144da
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:31 pm

ATS's former TWA Super Hangars are so cool. They evoke the look of the Eero Saarinen TWA Flight Center at JFK. I actually remember when Mid-Continent International opened, and how it was going to be a major east-west hub. Oh, well.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:38 pm

wjcandee wrote:
ATS's former TWA Super Hangars are so cool. They evoke the look of the Eero Saarinen TWA Flight Center at JFK. I actually remember when Mid-Continent International opened, and how it was going to be a major east-west hub. Oh, well.


There is a great painting out there of the Super Hangars with TWA Boeing SSTs flying overhead. I believe that they were designed for those.

EDIT:Here are the paintings:

https://twitter.com/TWAMuseum/status/983123657374380038

http://www.flickr.com/photos/americasroof/5511555306

http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kci-repairing-historic-super-hangar-facility
Last edited by DL_Mech on Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
Mightyflyer86
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:42 pm

Spacepope wrote:
She's one of the very highest hour 767s in existence, so retirement is a possibility. In April 2019 she had 132,000 hours and 19,000 cycles on her. I'd add at least 3000 hours since then and now.


Just curious, where do you obtain hour/cycle information for these type of airplanes?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:51 pm

Mightyflyer86 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
She's one of the very highest hour 767s in existence, so retirement is a possibility. In April 2019 she had 132,000 hours and 19,000 cycles on her. I'd add at least 3000 hours since then and now.


Just curious, where do you obtain hour/cycle information for these type of airplanes?


https://av-info.faa.gov/sdrx/Query.aspx

Make sure you leave off the "N" in the registration.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
RJMAZ
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:21 pm

seabosdca wrote:
We heard a couple months ago that all the -300ERs were going to keep on trucking for a while, which was a change from past plans. 140k hours or more seems entirely possible. These are the hours leaders in the global 767 fleet.

Waiting for the 797 by the looks of it.

Keeping the 767 flying really shows how strong the demand must be for a small widebody. The 787-8 can fit 25% more passengers for less than 5% more fuel burn yet airlines keep the 767 fleet flying.

Hundreds of used A330-300's are available cheap and end up going to the scrapyard. It has to be the smaller size of 767 that is in high demand.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:04 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
There is a great painting out there of the Super Hangars with TWA Boeing SSTs flying overhead. I believe that they were designed for those.


Made my day! And that painting really shows the connection to the Saarinen design. Thank you so much for sharing those links!!

The Super Hangars were indeed designed for the SST, but also designed for the 747, to keep TWA from having to use a 20-by-20 hole in the existing hangar's door in order to contain the rest of the 747 inside. One of the drawings you posted of the new Super Hangar facility was labeled "747/SST Airframe Overhaul Facility".

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-Wkd_rWsAM ... name=large The way they handled the 747s when the Queens first arrived and before they built the Super Hangar. Note the big yellow tailstand. From the TWAMuseum twitter feed.

I was inside the TWA hangar at JFK a few times, a portion of which was purpose-built for the 747, with catwalks in the air and such to provide easy access once the 747 was placed in position.
Last edited by wjcandee on Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:22 pm

767 seems to be a sweet spot size at Delta. If I was to suspeculate, my guess would be on the 787-8 as a one for one replacement, 2023 pricing of course.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:57 pm

FlyingViking wrote:
767 seems to be a sweet spot size at Delta. If I was to suspeculate, my guess would be on the 787-8 as a one for one replacement, 2023 pricing of course.


I would tend to doubt that. 787-8 has been available to Delta for more than 10 years, they actually had orders inherited from NWA and cancelled/converted them, and the 787 is 40-50,000 lbs heavier.
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:40 am

I agree it's been available. But Delta was expecting the 797 some time in the late 20'ies and that apparently is not going to happen, since the ER's wont go on forever it could be used 330-200's, new or used 330NEO's or (deeply) discounted 787-8's once Boeing needs to plug the estimated 2023 assembly line gaps. As always it comes down to the overall best deal available that brings the most profit to Delta's bottom line. Airplane weight is one of many factors of course Mx and fuel are others so is the acquisition cost. Ultimately the size of the plane has to fit the mission. Bigger isn't always better, nobody has ever gone bankrupt flying planes that were to small, the other way around......not so much.

Anyone with insight to what the trip cost would be for the above mentioned airplanes on a JFK-LHR flight?
 
SteelChair
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:25 am

My guess is that a 788 on JFK-LHR would only be carrying about 35-40% of its fuel capacity. In other words, it would be very underutilized.
 
ethernal
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:54 am

SteelChair wrote:
My guess is that a 788 on JFK-LHR would only be carrying about 35-40% of its fuel capacity. In other words, it would be very underutilized.


JFK-LHR is the extreme short end of widebody routes so perhaps not the greatest example. Only the Delta One routes for select transcons (a unique market) and 2 or 3 South American routes are shorter that regularly see 763 action.

That said, I agree that the 788 is not likely to be the replacement. Delta is more likely to replace with the much more economical 789 or 339 - they'll can routes if they have to before buying too many relatively uneconomical and overweight airframes.
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:07 am

JFK-LHR was just an quick example, obviously a short route, but there are other routes that Delta flies that could warrant a 787-8. I was simply wondering what the differences in trip cost are between the different competing airplanes out there. Fuel burn and take off weight are just two of the many factors.
Delta bought 330-900s even though 787-9 allegedly burns less fuel. I assume fleet commonality and a discount form Airbus helped sealing the deal.
My point with the 787-8 is that it's the same size as the 767-300ER. And I assume Boeing could contemplate discounts to keep a full assembly line going in 2023.
A 787-9 has a lower seat mile cost then a 787-8 but only if you can sell all the seats at a good yield. The less seats to sell, the higher the yield. Why fly a 787-9/330 if a 787-8 will leave with empty seats?
So if anybody out there has any insight to trip cost/fuel burn that would be greatly appreciated.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:10 am

DL has made no inclinations to bring on expensive 787s. Aging 767s will be replaced with a possible mixture of A321(XLR)s, used A332/333, A339, A338 if discounts can be had. The least profitable routes will be axed or shifted to joint ventures with AF/KLM, KE, VS, and LATAM.

The NMA is wishful thinking at this point for any carrier and it’s doubtful that it will carry paying passengers before the decade is out. Boeing’s plate is quite full, and the hypotheticals for the NMA is very US3/TATL focused.

It is quite easy to see DL have an all-Airbus widebody fleet in a decade or two when the 767s and 777s age out.
 
ethernal
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:12 am

FlyingViking wrote:
A 787-9 has a lower seat mile cost then a 787-8 but only if you can sell all the seats at a good yield. The less seats to sell, the higher the yield. Why fly a 787-9/330 if a 787-8 will leave with empty seats?
So if anybody out there has any insight to trip cost/fuel burn that would be greatly appreciated.


The issue is that stretches are practically free seats. The OEW of the 787-10 is only 13% higher than the 787-8 but fits 36% more seats. While Boeing will charge you a lot more, in reality it only costs a bit extra to make the 781 over the 788 and so there is more room for negotiation. Historically the issue with stretches was weak performance - but engine tech and the like is so good now that even the "under-performers" (like the A321, A351, or 787-10) are either good enough or actually exceed their smaller siblings. There is a reason there are virtually no new orders for the 788 but tons for the 781.

I think the rule today is that "buy as small of an airplane as you can to fit the needs, but make sure you buy the largest of the family." Delta has done this consistently with orders post-financial crisis - they've ordered the largest variant available at time of order (the only notable exception to this rule was the A220): 739s, A321s, A339s, and arguably A359 (admittedly the only variant available at the time).

Anyways - back to the thread topic - as others have deduced, Delta is going to keep these 767-300s around for a very long time. They'll replace the oldest ones with A339s and run them on the thicker routes and preserve the younger ones as long as possible to run thinner routes that are only economical on a fully-paid off small airframe. And then after that? My guess is some routes get cancelled completely and then the rest get upgauged.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:27 am

Don't forget that Boeing is constrained on 787-10 production capacity because they can be assembled only at Charleston. So far, Boeing has been far more aggressive with deals on 787-9s than 787-10s. In any case, either version of 787 is more aircraft than DL needs here. Extremely cheap 787-8s would make more sense, except that the pricing necessary to make them work is probably too low to make sense for Boeing.

I think Delta has really been counting on NMA, more than any other airline in the world. They would still extend 767 lifespans to bridge to it. But if it doesn't happen in the anticipated form, they are going to be in trouble on some routes. They will have to split the difference as best they can with 321XLRs and 339s, and neither product may be good enough for some missions.
 
Antarius
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:59 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
DL has made no inclinations to bring on expensive 787s. Aging 767s will be replaced with a possible mixture of A321(XLR)s, used A332/333, A339, A338 if discounts can be had. The least profitable routes will be axed or shifted to joint ventures with AF/KLM, KE, VS, and LATAM.

The NMA is wishful thinking at this point for any carrier and it’s doubtful that it will carry paying passengers before the decade is out. Boeing’s plate is quite full, and the hypotheticals for the NMA is very US3/TATL focused.

It is quite easy to see DL have an all-Airbus widebody fleet in a decade or two when the 767s and 777s age out.


I doubt the last statement. DL has succeeded by managing to time their fleet acquisitions well, by end of line runs and across all vendors.

I do not see DL giving away their purchase leverage. I could see larger Airbus fleet for sure, but likely DL will get some Boeing wide-bodies later at a good price again.
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Aceskywalker
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 am

Antarius wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
DL has made no inclinations to bring on expensive 787s. Aging 767s will be replaced with a possible mixture of A321(XLR)s, used A332/333, A339, A338 if discounts can be had. The least profitable routes will be axed or shifted to joint ventures with AF/KLM, KE, VS, and LATAM.

The NMA is wishful thinking at this point for any carrier and it’s doubtful that it will carry paying passengers before the decade is out. Boeing’s plate is quite full, and the hypotheticals for the NMA is very US3/TATL focused.

It is quite easy to see DL have an all-Airbus widebody fleet in a decade or two when the 767s and 777s age out.


I doubt the last statement. DL has succeeded by managing to time their fleet acquisitions well, by end of line runs and across all vendors.

I do not see DL giving away their purchase leverage. I could see larger Airbus fleet for sure, but likely DL will get some Boeing wide-bodies later at a good price again.


Boeing has nothing to offer Delta. The 777X isnt happening. The 787 would only be taken on if Boeing would give discounts that would anger the market.

Maybe the NMA but since that’s being started back to square one, we know nothing about it’s spec sheet or it’s business case, much less even a projected EIS. For all we know it will be a narrow body.
 
Antarius
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:34 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
DL has made no inclinations to bring on expensive 787s. Aging 767s will be replaced with a possible mixture of A321(XLR)s, used A332/333, A339, A338 if discounts can be had. The least profitable routes will be axed or shifted to joint ventures with AF/KLM, KE, VS, and LATAM.

The NMA is wishful thinking at this point for any carrier and it’s doubtful that it will carry paying passengers before the decade is out. Boeing’s plate is quite full, and the hypotheticals for the NMA is very US3/TATL focused.

It is quite easy to see DL have an all-Airbus widebody fleet in a decade or two when the 767s and 777s age out.


I doubt the last statement. DL has succeeded by managing to time their fleet acquisitions well, by end of line runs and across all vendors.

I do not see DL giving away their purchase leverage. I could see larger Airbus fleet for sure, but likely DL will get some Boeing wide-bodies later at a good price again.


Boeing has nothing to offer Delta. The 777X isnt happening. The 787 would only be taken on if Boeing would give discounts that would anger the market.

Maybe the NMA but since that’s being started back to square one, we know nothing about it’s spec sheet or it’s business case, much less even a projected EIS. For all we know it will be a narrow body.


777X is unlikely, agree. However I'm not sure I would write off the 787 a decade down the line. A PIP or 2 later and there's no reason the 787 could not fit some of DLs portfolio.

It's like the 739 fleet. Right time, right place, right price. The 787 isn't that now, but neither was the 739 at launch
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fanoftristars
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:36 pm

I personally hope Delta sticks with the Airbus planes - All Airbus widebody and narrowbody jets allow for an 18" wide seat or larger. You can certainly tell the difference in coach on an A330, then going to coach in a 787 in 3-3-3 or a 777 in 3-4-3 - that inch of difference is clearly felt. Long live the Delta 767s in 2-3-2 and the 777s in 3-3-3!
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:44 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I think Delta has really been counting on NMA, more than any other airline in the world. They would still extend 767 lifespans to bridge to it. But if it doesn't happen in the anticipated form, they are going to be in trouble on some routes. They will have to split the difference as best they can with 321XLRs and 339s, and neither product may be good enough for some missions.



The fact that Delta is putting a few high time 767s through an H check validates your NMA bridge theory. These planes were already on the retirement schedule, but were changed at the last minute. Long live 1982 airplanes!

fanoftristars wrote:
You can certainly tell the difference in coach on an A330, then going to coach in a 787 in 3-3-3 or a 777 in 3-4-3 - that inch of difference is clearly felt. Long live the Delta 767s in 2-3-2 and the 777s in 3-3-3!


Agreed, but the A350 has those 17" seats in Y.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:05 am

DL's aircraft info web page says 18" on the A350 in coach, 18.1" on a 76Z, and 18" on the 77L.
 
N649DL
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:50 am

Aceskywalker wrote:
DL has made no inclinations to bring on expensive 787s. Aging 767s will be replaced with a possible mixture of A321(XLR)s, used A332/333, A339, A338 if discounts can be had. The least profitable routes will be axed or shifted to joint ventures with AF/KLM, KE, VS, and LATAM.

The NMA is wishful thinking at this point for any carrier and it’s doubtful that it will carry paying passengers before the decade is out. Boeing’s plate is quite full, and the hypotheticals for the NMA is very US3/TATL focused.

It is quite easy to see DL have an all-Airbus widebody fleet in a decade or two when the 767s and 777s age out.


Honest Question: Can DL still take on the planned ex-NW 788 orders from Boeing to replace the older 763ER? UA only has 12 of them, they could get a good deal on them should they pursue it. Aside AA, the 788 isn't all that popular from domestic carriers.

I love the fact that DL and even UA has kept and refurbished their 25+ year-old 763s but AA did the opposite in favor of the 788. They both need to think of a replacement at some point. And I think that's a bit too aggressive on AA's part with the MAX ban considering they used to have almost a dozen 763ER from 2003. However, AA uses the 788 on long hauls out of ORD (and soon PHL) and seem to really do well for AA despite how dependent they were on the 763ER for many, many years.

In many ways, the 788 is like the new 767-200ER. I say DL should go for it should Boeing offer them up a deal.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:04 am

DL_Mech wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
The fact that Delta is putting a few high time 767s through an H check validates your NMA bridge theory. These planes were already on the retirement schedule, but were changed at the last minute. Long live 1982 airplanes!


Are any of these the ones currently going through service at ILN (AMES) or MCI (ATS)?
 
rbavfan
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:30 am

RJMAZ wrote:
seabosdca wrote:
We heard a couple months ago that all the -300ERs were going to keep on trucking for a while, which was a change from past plans. 140k hours or more seems entirely possible. These are the hours leaders in the global 767 fleet.

Waiting for the 797 by the looks of it.

Keeping the 767 flying really shows how strong the demand must be for a small widebody. The 787-8 can fit 25% more passengers for less than 5% more fuel burn yet airlines keep the 767 fleet flying.

Hundreds of used A330-300's are available cheap and end up going to the scrapyard. It has to be the smaller size of 767 that is in high demand.


The 767's are paid off. 0 Loan/lease payments, maintenance cost + higher fuel cost still outdoes lower fuel, more passengers and very large loan/lease cost.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:58 am

rbavfan wrote:
The 767's are paid off. 0 Loan/lease payments, maintenance cost + higher fuel cost still outdoes lower fuel, more passengers and very large loan/lease cost.


The real issue is reliability. DL monitors that like a hawk, as dispatch-reliability issues are costly.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:45 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DL's aircraft info web page says 18" on the A350 in coach, 18.1" on a 76Z, and 18" on the 77L.


Yes - and the A350 is wider than a 787, both configured at 3-3-3. The A350 can accommodate 18", the 787 cannot.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
timf
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:09 pm

N649DL wrote:
Honest Question: Can DL still take on the planned ex-NW 788 orders from Boeing to replace the older 763ER? UA only has 12 of them, they could get a good deal on them should they pursue it. Aside AA, the 788 isn't all that popular from domestic carriers.

The 787s have been off the books for several years. I'm guessing that at least part of the 737-900ER order was a result of the cancellation agreement.
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:30 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Are any of these the ones currently going through service at ILN (AMES) or MCI (ATS)?


1502 was done at ILN and 171 is at MCI.

fanoftristars wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
DL's aircraft info web page says 18" on the A350 in coach, 18.1" on a 76Z, and 18" on the 77L.


Yes - and the A350 is wider than a 787, both configured at 3-3-3. The A350 can accommodate 18", the 787 cannot.


Virgin and BA have the same Y seats. Virgin claims 17.4",BA 17.6" and DL 18."
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
micstatic
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:06 pm

Hasn't boeing reduced production rates on the 787 for a 2nd time now? Wouldn't this translate into a buyer getting a better deal now than say a few years ago. It will be interesting to watch delta's eventual 767 replacement.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
FlyingViking
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:28 pm

Allegedly FedEx got 50% off list price on their 767's. Now just throwing it out there, how would the economics of a new build 50% off list price passenger 767-300ER compare to the other options?
 
klkla
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:27 am

fanoftristars wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
DL's aircraft info web page says 18" on the A350 in coach, 18.1" on a 76Z, and 18" on the 77L.


Yes - and the A350 is wider than a 787, both configured at 3-3-3. The A350 can accommodate 18", the 787 cannot.


Yes - and the 777 is wider than the A350, both configured at 3-3-3. Why would their seat widths be the same? Is all that extra space on the 777 used for wider aisles?
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:55 am

klkla wrote:
Is all that extra space on the 777 used for wider aisles?


Most of the wasted space on a 3-3-3 777 is between the window seat and the sidewall. If you look at a 3-4-3 777, the window seats are right against the sidewall panel.

To get the 10th 17" seat, they take 3" from each space between the window seat and sidewall, 1" each from the other 9 seats and 1" from each aisle. 3"x2 + 1"x9 + 1"x2 = 17"
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:15 am

FlyingViking wrote:
Allegedly FedEx got 50% off list price on their 767's. Now just throwing it out there, how would the economics of a new build 50% off list price passenger 767-300ER compare to the other options?

50% of list for a major airline buying a decent number of planes is essentially the standard assumed discount these days. UPS likes the 767 because of how they designed their terminal layouts
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:53 am

I'm sure that before Boeing greenlighted the second 787 rate reduction all potential high-volume customers, including DL, were given a chance to bite at the best deal Boeing could offer and have the 12 rate still make sense. Some existing or unannounced orders may have come out of that, but it doesn't look like DL bit. And that makes sense; they don't really need more medium widebodies than they've already got on order for several more years.
 
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PacoMartin
Posts: 901
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 5:24 am

N171DN wrote:
Flightradar24 for a short time yesterday showed that the last time N171DN (29.8 year old 767-300ER with PW engines) flew was January 5th if this year. It flew ATL-MCI. Is it in for some sort of maintenance, or is it being stored at MCI?


Those are some old Delta B763. I heard Vietnam government is now requiring all Viet carriers to sell jets at 20 years of age. Delta would be in a pickle if they did that here.

N171DN 9 Jun 1990
N172DN 22 Jun 1990
N173DN 8 Jun 1990 Broken up Jun 2017 at VCV
N174DN 20 Jul 1990
N175DN 26 Jul 1990
N176DN 15 Dec 1990
N177DN 19 Jan 1991
N178DN 5 Apr 1991
N179DN 17 Apr 1991

Delta actually has six B757s that are older than the B767- N171DN which are configured with 72 first class seats for Basketball charter. Also they have seven MD-88s that are older, but they will be retired by the end of the year.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta 767-300ER stored?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:37 am

PacoMartin wrote:
I heard Vietnam government is now requiring all Viet carriers to sell jets at 20 years of age. Delta would be in a pickle if they did that here.


It's a stupid requirement. Maybe not for there, but certainly for the US. Under DL's maint program, I have never had an issue flying these "old" aircraft. Reliability might take a hit at a certain point, but certainly not safety. The higher-hour aircraft that DL just put through heavy maintenance at AMES and ATS in lieu of retirement are running with sufficient reliability to keep flying them, so they stay.

I did the math the other day. 120,000 hours at 500 mph is 60,000,000 miles. To the Moon and back over 250 times. 2400 times around the earth at the Equator. Cool.

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