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questions
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:57 am

Gimmicky.

I think in reality the execution will be poor.
- Extremely tight seat pitch.
- Awkward to get in and out of, especially for window seat passengers.
- Impossible to get in and out of when the seat in front is reclined, especially for window seat passengers.
- Passengers will trip over the bins holding the passenger safety information card and Sky Magazine.
- The water bottle holder and recessed holder behind the cocktail tray will become filthy.
- Paper thin design equals awful cushioning.

The only customers who will “love” these new seats will be in the imagination of Delta’s marketing team. Passengers will feel like they’re harnessed into a claustrophobic roller coaster seat and will hate them.

Give me the old burgundy leather club chairs, 40” pitch, no IFE and add power outlets and I’ll be happier.
 
trueblew
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:17 am

Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!
 
max999
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:43 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Not a huge improvement in comfort in my book. The floor attachments are still in the way and the seat armrests look just as hard as they are in Delta One. Also a lot of plastic to mess up with ballpoint pens and bag scuffs. There also seems to be a sacrifice in width. The magazine holders will get all kinds of crud in them. When will we see a truly innovative product in Domestic First that really looks relaxing and comforting? I just don't see the value add here.


I feel the opposite of you. I give credit to DL actively trying to improve its domestic product. Whereas UA and AA are actively trying to worsen their domestic products. Examples: UA ripping out PTVs in their domestic fleet and AA's Oasis project.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:03 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
Listen do y’all think delta didn’t do seat shows. Have their most loyal customers, influencers to come sit in the seats ahead of the final design. I’m sure they have done their research and it appears their demo has asked for privacy, increased storage but with the same width as before.

Delta likely does, but it doesn’t mean they make meaningful decisions off those inputs.
If they actually did, why else would delta:
1. Be the only non ULCC in the US to squeeze two lavs into the back wall of every airbus just to add more 30” seats in Economy?
2. Be the first of the US3 to have 30” Y seat pitch that AA and UA then followed?
3. Have industry-lowest First class seat pitch across their fleet?

It’s certainly nice that Delta seems to be thinking outside the box, but like everything else they do, it’s hard not to be skeptical after they’ve led the industry in so many actual customer discomforts coupled with their marketing campaigns getting everyone to care about the TV in front of their face over their knees.
I hope they add back legroom to first class with this seat design but I don’t think anyone will hold their breath that it’s anything more than AA Oasis, 37”, with this new Delta seat.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:45 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
It’s the same pitch as their other domestic first class folks. I think it’s just the one angle. It’s weird that delta hasn’t put an official statement out or more details.


The current pitch is tight, tighter than almost every other US operator except AA’s Oasis.

Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:56 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

The current pitch is tight, tighter than almost every other US operator except AA’s Oasis.

Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.


Any other carrier could've done the same as Delta, severely limiting bulkhead seat first class pitch. No one else did. Just Delta. Let's give Delta credit for squeezing in that extra row of seats with that decision, combined with reduced seat pitch in Y and the ULCC-style bathrooms on the back wall.

An inconsistent experience in first isn't an excuse for industry-lowest legroom. I rather doubt, in Delta's loyal customer survey, that anyone wrote "I'd like to have a 25% chance of booking first and having 2" less legroom than everyone else paying the same thing".

A little information is helpful here as well, enlighten everyone the rows on AA Oasis that are less than 30" pitch? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/06/aa-rev ... nch-pitch/

Bringing it back to the topic, I'm sure everyone here hopes Delta will add legroom on their new seat above AA Oasis, but I don't even see any Delta fans with any hope of that outcome. Let's just hope that it isn't less than 37", which would be an improvement from their current fleet.
 
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DL717
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:31 pm

JakubH wrote:
Hard to evaluate comfort of the seats but the pitch looks awful!

At first look, I thought this was Delta Comfort+ at best.


Was thinking the same thing but it could be the angle or it’s just a mock-up.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
AIRT0M
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:38 pm

zeke wrote:

One day I hope they call it what it is, business class.


Thank you.
Weird to read first class and then see this seat. I know domestic F is different to long haul F, but I don't think first class is the appropriate name for this.
 
Indy
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:42 pm

DL717 wrote:
Was thinking the same thing but it could be the angle or it’s just a mock-up.


I don't know. The people they choose to design their seats aren't very good. I think they choose gimmicky and flash over substance and comfort. I was in F on the remodeled 747 and those pods were bad. The away facing angled seating was odd. And the pods were very uncomfortable when you'd fully recline. The lower leg area was badly designed. But at least it looked flashy -_-
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
MIflyer12
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:54 pm

AIRT0M wrote:
zeke wrote:

One day I hope they call it what it is, business class.


Thank you.
Weird to read first class and then see this seat. I know domestic F is different to long haul F, but I don't think first class is the appropriate name for this.


It's the buyers of ten of millions of U.S. domestic first class seats that know the convention. Non-Americans who simply don't like the cabin naming get discounted to nothingness. Americans think the intra-European convention of business class on same seat pitch as coach is mindless. https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Lufth ... 21_NEK.php
 
AlexBrewster03
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:35 pm

All of you keep saying “Extremely tight seat pitch” It’s more than what’s offered in Economy, where most people have to fly, so be thankful for the extra legroom.
I think the seat looks great and I hope it is a success for Delta
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:05 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

The current pitch is tight, tighter than almost every other US operator except AA’s Oasis.

Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Well, all of the 752's are going to be retired by 2023, so there's one less.


You have a source for that?
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:29 pm

N312RC wrote:
Compare this cabin to the Oasis cabin being installed on AA’s A321 fleet. About as clear a difference as you can possibly illustrate between management styles/ideas.



This post is pure BS and is the kind of junk ruining this board! MODS really need to get a handle on this, this type of trolling should get you a weeks vacation IMHO!

You are comparing a Wide Body First class product with a narrow body coach product and making some grand deduction?

Why not compare DL's economy to AA's OASIS which is essentially identical, but DL even squeezes in a couple more seats!
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:33 pm

trueblew wrote:
Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!


That's what I was thinking as well. They look like Premium Economy or Economy Plus type of seating. Not First Class.

But they might be really great in real life. We'll have to wait and see.
 
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Polot
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:37 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!


That's what I was thinking as well. They look like Premium Economy or Economy Plus type of seating. Not First Class.

But they might be really great in real life. We'll have to wait and see.

i believe the US3 premium economy seats are essentially slightly modified versions of some their domestic first class seat.

I don’t see the issue calling this first class vs business class. Yes, this isn’t the standard of international First, but it is not like Y seats with the middle seat blocked masquerading as “business class” (as the Euro carriers, for example, typically do) matches the standards of international Business class either. “First” is just used for historical reasons.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:41 pm

UpNAWAy wrote:
N312RC wrote:
Compare this cabin to the Oasis cabin being installed on AA’s A321 fleet. About as clear a difference as you can possibly illustrate between management styles/ideas.



This post is pure BS and is the kind of junk ruining this board! MODS really need to get a handle on this, this type of trolling should get you a weeks vacation IMHO!

You are comparing a Wide Body First class product with a narrow body coach product and making some grand deduction?

Why not compare DL's economy to AA's OASIS which is essentially identical, but DL even squeezes in a couple more seats!

He's comparing DL new A321neo seats (a narrowbody aircraft) with the Oasis Cabin being installed on AA A321 Fleet (a narrowbody aircraft); isn't that comparing apples to apples???
 
Prost
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:43 pm

If I’m not mistaken, the FC seats on the A220 are the same as the Premium Economy on the A330-900, so that isn’t without precedent.
 
LawAndOrder
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:37 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
Listen do y’all think delta didn’t do seat shows. Have their most loyal customers, influencers to come sit in the seats ahead of the final design. I’m sure they have done their research and it appears their demo has asked for privacy, increased storage but with the same width as before.

Delta likely does, but it doesn’t mean they make meaningful decisions off those inputs.
If they actually did, why else would delta:
1. Be the only non ULCC in the US to squeeze two lavs into the back wall of every airbus just to add more 30” seats in Economy?
2. Be the first of the US3 to have 30” Y seat pitch that AA and UA then followed?
3. Have industry-lowest First class seat pitch across their fleet?

It’s certainly nice that Delta seems to be thinking outside the box, but like everything else they do, it’s hard not to be skeptical after they’ve led the industry in so many actual customer discomforts coupled with their marketing campaigns getting everyone to care about the TV in front of their face over their knees.
I hope they add back legroom to first class with this seat design but I don’t think anyone will hold their breath that it’s anything more than AA Oasis, 37”, with this new Delta seat.


For 1-2 you are referring to old configurations. Their standard is 31. The trade off is in some rows there are 30 inch (very few) but unlike oasis you still get a screen which means you dint have to balance your phone for viewing. Their current standard generation first class is 37 inch.

But back to the topic. You are critical of something with no real details and one picture of the seat and not even the cabin. If DL interiors are so bad then why are doing so well? Yes they have to compromise some perhaps what was most important to their key flyers was privacy. I’ve sat in DL 321 current first class, oasis first class, Alaska first class I can’t say I’ve had a bad experience on either with the actual seat. I actually prefer Alaska seat comfort, didn’t notice difference in pitch but I guess that doesn’t matter to me.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:48 pm

Polot wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!


That's what I was thinking as well. They look like Premium Economy or Economy Plus type of seating. Not First Class.

But they might be really great in real life. We'll have to wait and see.

i believe the US3 premium economy seats are essentially slightly modified versions of some their domestic first class seat.

I don’t see the issue calling this first class vs business class. Yes, this isn’t the standard of international First, but it is not like Y seats with the middle seat blocked masquerading as “business class” (as the Euro carriers, for example, typically do) matches the standards of international Business class either. “First” is just used for historical reasons.


Yes, it's just a naming scheme aimed at the markets they operate in.

In Europe, most "Business Class" seats on widebodies are equal to "First Class" in the US. But on the other hand - like you said, on narrowbodies Business Class tickets often get you the same Economy seat with an empty one next to you.

Still, when I think of First Class, I think of suites like on Middle Eastern carriers, not a Business Class seat that looks like a Premium Economy seat.
 
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keesje
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:04 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
It’s the same pitch as their other domestic first class folks. I think it’s just the one angle. It’s weird that delta hasn’t put an official statement out or more details.


The current pitch is tight, tighter than almost every other US operator except AA’s Oasis.

Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Are all Oasis seat pitches at least 37 inch accross the fleet, or are there some 35 inch also, to just fit in that extra row?
If not, there would be rows with much more than 37 inch pitch.
Fascinating.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:05 pm

i hope this is not deltas project Oasis LOL. those images looked really nice and modern too until someone sat in the seats
 
744SPX
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:15 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
Hard to tell from the pictures, but those seats appear to have significantly less "cushion" than the older types (which has been a trend on many carriers for years). It looks like there's another divider between the seats, I wonder if that folds down or extends.


The economy seats on the pre-LCC Frontier A320's were nearly twice as thick and super cush.
Welcome to slimline first class seating. :shakehead:
 
blooc350
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:20 pm

Wheres the legroom? lol It looks like Premium Economy..............
 
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OA412
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:33 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.


Any other carrier could've done the same as Delta, severely limiting bulkhead seat first class pitch. No one else did. Just Delta. Let's give Delta credit for squeezing in that extra row of seats with that decision, combined with reduced seat pitch in Y and the ULCC-style bathrooms on the back wall.

An inconsistent experience in first isn't an excuse for industry-lowest legroom. I rather doubt, in Delta's loyal customer survey, that anyone wrote "I'd like to have a 25% chance of booking first and having 2" less legroom than everyone else paying the same thing".

A little information is helpful here as well, enlighten everyone the rows on AA Oasis that are less than 30" pitch? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/06/aa-rev ... nch-pitch/

Bringing it back to the topic, I'm sure everyone here hopes Delta will add legroom on their new seat above AA Oasis, but I don't even see any Delta fans with any hope of that outcome. Let's just hope that it isn't less than 37", which would be an improvement from their current fleet.


And yet, the least comfortable Y class I've flown in recent memory was AAs Oasis configuration. BA, UA, and DL at 30 have all been more comfortable than AA. The most comfortable domestic Y, by far, is WNs 738.

Further, AA is not spacious in first compared to DL when across the board, the vast majority of seats in DL first are 37", just like AA.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:55 pm

OA412 wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:

Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.


Any other carrier could've done the same as Delta, severely limiting bulkhead seat first class pitch. No one else did. Just Delta. Let's give Delta credit for squeezing in that extra row of seats with that decision, combined with reduced seat pitch in Y and the ULCC-style bathrooms on the back wall.

An inconsistent experience in first isn't an excuse for industry-lowest legroom. I rather doubt, in Delta's loyal customer survey, that anyone wrote "I'd like to have a 25% chance of booking first and having 2" less legroom than everyone else paying the same thing".

A little information is helpful here as well, enlighten everyone the rows on AA Oasis that are less than 30" pitch? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/06/aa-rev ... nch-pitch/

Bringing it back to the topic, I'm sure everyone here hopes Delta will add legroom on their new seat above AA Oasis, but I don't even see any Delta fans with any hope of that outcome. Let's just hope that it isn't less than 37", which would be an improvement from their current fleet.


And yet, the least comfortable Y class I've flown in recent memory was AAs Oasis configuration. BA, UA, and DL at 30 have all been more comfortable than AA. The most comfortable domestic Y, by far, is WNs 738.

Further, AA is not spacious in first compared to DL when across the board, the vast majority of seats in DL first are 37", just like AA.


At the end of the day, any of us can only work with the facts given to us by the airline:
https://www.delta.com/us/en/aircraft/overview
Under the bulkhead-only theory, ~20-33% of Delta first class seats on those aircraft are below Delta's own standard with no plans to change that. I suppose "vast majority" is a term anyone can debate.
I completely agree on Southwest. Lots of legroom.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:14 pm

Do these seats recline? Blocking of window is a big no!
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MSPNWA
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:48 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
Listen do y’all think delta didn’t do seat shows. Have their most loyal customers, influencers to come sit in the seats ahead of the final design. I’m sure they have done their research and it appears their demo has asked for privacy, increased storage but with the same width as before.


Gathering customer opinions and actually heeding them are two different things. Do you really think customers have asked airlines for uncomfortable seats, cramped quarters, and slimline lavs--all of therm in the rear in the case of DL's 739? When DL (or pretty much any airlines for that matter) "invests" in their cabins, they do it to make more money. Customers have to be aware of that. In DL's case, that screen, if you get one, isn't "free". Style over substance is a real phenomenon. This could easily be another case based on the rendering.

LawAndOrder wrote:
Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.


You can say that again. Add the CRJ-700 to the 36" or less list. There's also no Oasis seat with less than 30" pitch.

Also DL's tight bulkheads aren't some rare avoidable anomaly. Bulkhead seats make up between 20-33% of each type's F seats. Anyway you slice it, in general DL has currently the legacy carrier's worst F and Y pitch. And that points to a likely problem with this seat. If we get the now standard 37" of pitch, that middle floor storage would hinder the window seat PAX from getting out. It also would limit underseat storage and squish the available legroom into a narrower area. Legroom is not just about pitch.

LawAndOrder wrote:
For 1-2 you are referring to old configurations. Their standard is 31. The trade off is in some rows there are 30 inch (very few) but unlike oasis you still get a screen which means you dint have to balance your phone for viewing. Their current standard generation first class is 37 inch.

But back to the topic. You are critical of something with no real details and one picture of the seat and not even the cabin. If DL interiors are so bad then why are doing so well? Yes they have to compromise some perhaps what was most important to their key flyers was privacy. I’ve sat in DL 321 current first class, oasis first class, Alaska first class I can’t say I’ve had a bad experience on either with the actual seat. I actually prefer Alaska seat comfort, didn’t notice difference in pitch but I guess that doesn’t matter to me.


Ah, this myth again that says that DL only has a few 30" rows. I'll ask for the umpteen time since no one has been able to answer yet: which rows on which aircraft are 30" and the rest are 31"? What is your source?

Why are they doing well? Lots of reasons an airline can make money with uncomfortable interiors. The biggest is that customers don't have much choice anymore. And for the average DL domestic customer, they have the least amount of choice. If this new seat stinks, customers might not have a reasonable option to avoid it.
 
jetlanta
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:14 am

MSPNWA wrote:
I'll take a wait and see approach to this, but to me this seems like maybe the "privacy" craze has jumped the shark. From blocking window views to being couple-unfriendly, I'm likely not going to be a fan. This could be a domestic F seat that I actively avoid.


You know what blocks windows? Window shades. This seat wont make a damn bit if difference because nearly all windows are closed during daylight hours these days. I don't like it, but thats the deal.

Also, the vast majority of F class passengers are not couples. The rebellion against partitions and suites in international business class never materialized and it won't be an issue here either. Most premium passengers value privacy versus interaction with their neighbor. And, seriously, all you need to do is lean over about six inches to have that important conversation.
 
airzona11
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:21 am

trueblew wrote:
Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!


Which is what PY is, domestic first class seat.
 
TW870
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:44 am

jetlanta wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
I'll take a wait and see approach to this, but to me this seems like maybe the "privacy" craze has jumped the shark. From blocking window views to being couple-unfriendly, I'm likely not going to be a fan. This could be a domestic F seat that I actively avoid.


You know what blocks windows? Window shades. This seat wont make a damn bit if difference because nearly all windows are closed during daylight hours these days. I don't like it, but thats the deal.

Also, the vast majority of F class passengers are not couples. The rebellion against partitions and suites in international business class never materialized and it won't be an issue here either. Most premium passengers value privacy versus interaction with their neighbor. And, seriously, all you need to do is lean over about six inches to have that important conversation.


So spot on about the shades. If I could have an aisle seat with my view partially blocked by my neighbors privacy wings, I would take it - because there is a 99% chance that on any aircraft, the window passenger is going to slam the shade the second they board the aircraft. I have been switching back to window seats now just to keep the shade open, but I have started getting attitude from other passengers that I need to close my shade. I had a window seat on ATL-HNL recently on a flight where I was fortunate enough to be in J, and I was the only person in the 40-seat J cabin with the shade open on the most beautiful flight over downtown LAX and the San Gabriel mountains at 4pm local time on a daylight flight. I don't know how things got so bad so fast.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:42 am

Pretty hard for anyone to shame DL when comparing to AA's product and where it's headed.

As for the new first class seat: here's praying to the high heavens that the tray table a) lays flat and not dropped down at a 10-25 degree angle.
 
ctrabs0114
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:52 am

FedexL1011 wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
FedexL1011 wrote:
Alaska has done that as well with their Ricardo seats in Main Cabin on their Airbus fleet.

Ricardo seats... Thanks for the chuckle. ;-)


Shoot my apologies, Recaro. That’s one that makes me laugh too.


And don't forget about their spin-off brand, Lucy Seats...

All joking aside, I like almost everything about those DL seats except that headrest. I can't help but think it's overkill, to be honest.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
NW747-400
Posts: 445
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:03 am

ctrabs0114 wrote:
FedexL1011 wrote:
GSPSPOT wrote:
Ricardo seats... Thanks for the chuckle. ;-)


Shoot my apologies, Recaro. That’s one that makes me laugh too.


And don't forget about their spin-off brand, Lucy Seats...

All joking aside, I like almost everything about those DL seats except that headrest. I can't help but think it's overkill, to be honest.


I quite like the headrest. Hopefully it’s executed well. Given that the NEO is rumored to be taking over longer stage lengths from the 757 such as west coast - Hawaii, I think this headrest will finally provide decent head support for sleeping on the eastbound redeye segment. Traditional domestic F seats just don’t cut it for trying to sleep.
 
NW747-400
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:56 pm

Update: Here's the official press release from Delta. Included is an additional photo showing the front of the seat. From what I can gather, its the same size as a typical domestic F seat, but with a shell installed around it for privacy / sleeping. There also appears to be a footrest in the photos, but no mention of one in the text. I think it'll be a win.

https://news.delta.com/delta-introduces ... 1neo-fleet
 
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OA412
Moderator
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:37 pm

What's not clear from the press release is whether this seat will be exclusive to the A321neo or whether it will eventually be fitted into the entire domestic fleet.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
questions
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:59 pm

NW747-400 wrote:
Update: Here's the official press release from Delta. Included is an additional photo showing the front of the seat. From what I can gather, its the same size as a typical domestic F seat, but with a shell installed around it for privacy / sleeping. There also appears to be a footrest in the photos, but no mention of one in the text. I think it'll be a win.

https://news.delta.com/delta-introduces ... 1neo-fleet


The cabin will also feature expansive, 25-percent-larger bookshelf-style overhead bins...

Why the change from the ones that rotate upward? Were there problems with that design?

Also, no mention of the all important passenger centric metric of seat pitch.
 
timf
Posts: 568
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:22 pm

questions wrote:
The cabin will also feature expansive, 25-percent-larger bookshelf-style overhead bins...

Why the change from the ones that rotate upward? Were there problems with that design?

Also, no mention of the all important passenger centric metric of seat pitch.

The Airspace XL bins can fit bags on their side, while the current pivot bins cannot. This should greatly reduce the number of roller bags that need to be gate checked.
 
blooc350
Posts: 172
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:24 pm

looks like SQ's premium economy lol

Image
 
questions
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:29 pm

AlexBrewster03 wrote:
All of you keep saying “Extremely tight seat pitch” It’s more than what’s offered in Economy, where most people have to fly, so be thankful for the extra legroom.
I think the seat looks great and I hope it is a success for Delta


LOL First Class passengers PAY* more to fly in the F cabin.

They expect a comfortable product, greater personal space, enhanced service and an overall better experience.

The experience is diminished with reduced seat pitch, a passenger reclined into your laptop, difficulty getting into/out of seat, catering by the Piggly Wiggly, visual cabin dividers and non existent FA’s who don’t provide the minimum standard offering.


*Granted, a percentage of F passengers are “upgrades.” However, over the past 10 years, Delta has become more sophisticated with passenger data. They have increased their ability to offer complimentary upgrades to their most valuable customers who contribute to the revenue line over time vs on a per flight basis.
 
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Web500sjc
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:42 pm

questions wrote:
NW747-400 wrote:
Update: Here's the official press release from Delta. Included is an additional photo showing the front of the seat. From what I can gather, its the same size as a typical domestic F seat, but with a shell installed around it for privacy / sleeping. There also appears to be a footrest in the photos, but no mention of one in the text. I think it'll be a win.

https://news.delta.com/delta-introduces ... 1neo-fleet


The cabin will also feature expansive, 25-percent-larger bookshelf-style overhead bins...

Why the change from the ones that rotate upward? Were there problems with that design?

Also, no mention of the all important passenger centric metric of seat pitch.



It sounds like the A321Ns will have the same bins as the refurbished A320/319 or the refurbished Boeing overheads. The Bins on the current A321 can not accommodate carryon bags on their side, so each bag has to lie flat and us more length in the the Aircraft.
Boiler Up!
 
questions
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:54 pm

timf wrote:
questions wrote:
The cabin will also feature expansive, 25-percent-larger bookshelf-style overhead bins...

Why the change from the ones that rotate upward? Were there problems with that design?

Also, no mention of the all important passenger centric metric of seat pitch.

The Airspace XL bins can fit bags on their side, while the current pivot bins cannot. This should greatly reduce the number of roller bags that need to be gate checked.


Ah, thanks. I thought the retrofitted pivot bins could accommodate bags on their side. Thanks for clarifying.
 
questions
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:57 pm

timf wrote:
questions wrote:
The cabin will also feature expansive, 25-percent-larger bookshelf-style overhead bins...

Why the change from the ones that rotate upward? Were there problems with that design?

Also, no mention of the all important passenger centric metric of seat pitch.

The Airspace XL bins can fit bags on their side, while the current pivot bins cannot. This should greatly reduce the number of roller bags that need to be gate checked.


Here’s a link to the non-pivot, bookshelf-style Airspace XL bins:

https://economyclassandbeyond.boardingarea.com/2019/04/02/aix19-airbus-and-american-airlines-launch-the-airspace-xl-overhead-bin/
 
GSOflyerDL
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:29 pm

airzona11 wrote:
trueblew wrote:
Wow, this looks like a really spiffy Premium Economy seat!


Which is what PY is, domestic first class seat.


I'm not sure if trueblue was referring to Premium Select or Comfort+. They are different products.
DL Diamond Medallion 360
 
GSOflyerDL
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:35 pm

blooc350 wrote:
looks like SQ's premium economy lol

Image


This is not news. International Premium Select is the same as domestic First on DL.
DL Diamond Medallion 360
 
GSOflyerDL
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:37 pm

n7371f wrote:
Pretty hard for anyone to shame DL when comparing to AA's product and where it's headed.

As for the new first class seat: here's praying to the high heavens that the tray table a) lays flat and not dropped down at a 10-25 degree angle.


The tray table in domestic F is stowed in the armest, so what angle are you talking about?
DL Diamond Medallion 360
 
IFlyVeryLittle
Posts: 117
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:02 pm

Why do all these "premium" product seats seem to assume people travel alone or want nothing to do with their spouses, children or traveling companions. I'll probably never fly anywhere outside of cattle class, but I would think carrying on a conversation with a seatmate would be next to impossible with this kind of deal.
 
n7371f
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:06 am

Yes. Like 99% of first class tray tables it is stored in the arm rest. When it is fully retracted, it more often than not droops in a lower down angle up to 20 degrees.

GSOflyerDL wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Pretty hard for anyone to shame DL when comparing to AA's product and where it's headed.

As for the new first class seat: here's praying to the high heavens that the tray table a) lays flat and not dropped down at a 10-25 degree angle.


The tray table in domestic F is stowed in the armest, so what angle are you talking about?
 
TW870
Posts: 1234
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:32 am

GSOflyerDL wrote:
blooc350 wrote:
looks like SQ's premium economy lol

Image


This is not news. International Premium Select is the same as domestic First on DL.


Absolutely, and I have a hunch that if this seat design is popular for domestic F that you might see it applied to Premium Select as the longhaul fleet is updated in the future. The head support would make this seat really desirable for international premium economy.
 
TObound
Posts: 783
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:04 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Nearly every first class current seat pitch Delta has is tighter than AA’s Oasis seat pitch. Oasis is spacious compared to current Delta.

Oasis: 37”

Delta:
A319: 35-37”
A320: 36”
A321: 37”
B73G: 35-37”
B738:36-38”
B739: 35-37”
B752: 35-37”
Let’s hope Delta adds some more legroom to their new seat.


Numbers and a little information can be deceitful.
The numbers you are quoting are due to the first row being tighter at the bulkhead. Majority of their cabins are 37 with the exception of the 320. United seems to be coming in between 37 and 38 with a few older fleets having 39.

AA oasis isn’t bad upfront it’s the back that makes it bad. It averages at 30 seat pitch with a decent amount of rows at less than 30.


Any other carrier could've done the same as Delta, severely limiting bulkhead seat first class pitch. No one else did. Just Delta. Let's give Delta credit for squeezing in that extra row of seats with that decision, combined with reduced seat pitch in Y and the ULCC-style bathrooms on the back wall.

An inconsistent experience in first isn't an excuse for industry-lowest legroom. I rather doubt, in Delta's loyal customer survey, that anyone wrote "I'd like to have a 25% chance of booking first and having 2" less legroom than everyone else paying the same thing".

A little information is helpful here as well, enlighten everyone the rows on AA Oasis that are less than 30" pitch? https://thepointsguy.com/2017/06/aa-rev ... nch-pitch/

Bringing it back to the topic, I'm sure everyone here hopes Delta will add legroom on their new seat above AA Oasis, but I don't even see any Delta fans with any hope of that outcome. Let's just hope that it isn't less than 37", which would be an improvement from their current fleet.


Same whine from you every single time. And guess what? Customers are voting with their feet and wallets. Delta is doing better on premium cabins than the competition. And retaining customers. How's that happening? Turns out that 1" extra in pitch in F isn't all that relevant. Particularly when that same frequent flyer also has to fly Y often enough and will remember what that's like on the competition.....
Last edited by TObound on Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TObound
Posts: 783
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Re: New Delta First Class Seats - A321neo

Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:06 pm

IFlyVeryLittle wrote:
Why do all these "premium" product seats seem to assume people travel alone or want nothing to do with their spouses, children or traveling companions. I'll probably never fly anywhere outside of cattle class, but I would think carrying on a conversation with a seatmate would be next to impossible with this kind of deal.


Because most people who travel in F are often traveling alone or working,etc. The airlines aren't morons. They have data on how many travelers are traveling accompanied.

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