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lawair
Topic Author
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DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:45 pm

The order involves three Muslim passengers who were removed from two different Delta flights. The assessed civil penalty is $50,000.

Haven't seen one of these kinds of orders in a while.

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... r-2020-1-9
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:07 pm

This is interesting to see. Can I assume that these incidents were those were perhaps a Muslim person was talking on a mobile phone and a passenger got scared and told the FA, who then told the flight crew, who then, not wanting to go against the FA's, had the pax removed?

While I understand the position that the flight and cabin crews may have felt they were in, it is good that these have actually been addressed and that DL is being held accountable. When these come up next time, perhaps they can kick off the person who was just scared of folks with skin darker than theirs.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:18 am

The funny thing about all this is this - it only happens to Arab looking passengers. Whereas there are plenty of non-Arab Muslims flying around without harassment in the US every single day.

Just goes to show how bigotry + ignorance = idiocy.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
HPRamper
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:57 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
This is interesting to see. Can I assume that these incidents were those were perhaps a Muslim person was talking on a mobile phone and a passenger got scared and told the FA, who then told the flight crew, who then, not wanting to go against the FA's, had the pax removed?

While I understand the position that the flight and cabin crews may have felt they were in, it is good that these have actually been addressed and that DL is being held accountable. When these come up next time, perhaps they can kick off the person who was just scared of folks with skin darker than theirs.

The scenario you have described is literally what has happened in nearly all of these cases. The airlines need to tell the bigoted passenger to get off the plane instead of catering to their fearful whims.
 
Cactusjuba
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:55 pm

Please note this event happened about 4 years ago. Lessons have been learned. When these sort of situations occur, the captain is now trained to contact a representative specially trained to deal with these matters. Kind of like how pilots contact doctors on the ground to handle diversion decisions for inflight medical issues. Hopefully that mitigates these misinterpreted threats to security.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:53 pm

What if I'm from China and is on a flight because I was coughing? Will they kick me off?
 
kiowa
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:26 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
What if I'm from China and is on a flight because I was coughing? Will they kick me off?


Depends, do you have a sense of humor?
 
CelesteMix
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:27 am

Ziyulu wrote:
What if I'm from China and is on a flight because I was coughing? Will they kick me off?


They would probably kick you of for assurance that the virus wont spread.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:46 am

I was wondering: why is the DOT the one fining Delta? Did this action violate any DOT rules?
I'm surprised if wasn't handled by the DOJ, as it sounds more like a civil violation.
Just asking...
 
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longhauler
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:43 am

If Delta Air Lines is going to continue pretending to be an international carrier, they best learn the way the world works. And “the world” does not discriminate nor harass passengers based solely on their religion. By comparison, imagine how British Airways, Cathay Pacific, Qantas, etc . would have handled this.

Where I fly, line one of the “suspicious passenger” and “disruptive passenger” QRH checklists states “If your perception or handling of the passenger would change if he were a different gender, age, race or religion, then you must stop.” Period.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:47 am

While I suppose there are instances where the captain has not kicked off people at the cabin crew’s request, why is it so often that they seemed to side with them without much debate?

I suppose maybe that’s the part we don’t hear about. However, it does seem like there may be some sort of issues between these two groups if the pilots don’t go along with them.

Glad there is now a better mechanism to help with these instances. And, it does seem like these are happening less often.
 
mcdu
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:28 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
While I suppose there are instances where the captain has not kicked off people at the cabin crew’s request, why is it so often that they seemed to side with them without much debate?

I suppose maybe that’s the part we don’t hear about. However, it does seem like there may be some sort of issues between these two groups if the pilots don’t go along with them.

Glad there is now a better mechanism to help with these instances. And, it does seem like these are happening less often.


There should not be the jet bridge Admirals making rash decisions like this. They need to get the company security team involved. Airline security can get instant data on a passenger and if they are suspicious. If the questionable parties pass the company security test, then the options need to be to offer the passengers that are uncomfortable the opportunity to take a different flight (in my experience when it comes to a decision to inconvenience themselves they tend to not be as concerned). If the Flight Attendants are still uncomfortable after talking to the airline security team they too need to be offered to deplane.
 
kiowa
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:38 pm

mcdu wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
While I suppose there are instances where the captain has not kicked off people at the cabin crew’s request, why is it so often that they seemed to side with them without much debate?

I suppose maybe that’s the part we don’t hear about. However, it does seem like there may be some sort of issues between these two groups if the pilots don’t go along with them.

Glad there is now a better mechanism to help with these instances. And, it does seem like these are happening less often.


There should not be the jet bridge Admirals making rash decisions like this. They need to get the company security team involved. Airline security can get instant data on a passenger and if they are suspicious. If the questionable parties pass the company security test, then the options need to be to offer the passengers that are uncomfortable the opportunity to take a different flight (in my experience when it comes to a decision to inconvenience themselves they tend to not be as concerned). If the Flight Attendants are still uncomfortable after talking to the airline security team they too need to be offered to deplane.


I believe a ground security coordinator works with the crew while at the gate if a passenger is a problem. Not sure what a jetway admiral is.
 
mcdu
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:38 pm

kiowa wrote:
mcdu wrote:
SL1200MK2 wrote:
While I suppose there are instances where the captain has not kicked off people at the cabin crew’s request, why is it so often that they seemed to side with them without much debate?

I suppose maybe that’s the part we don’t hear about. However, it does seem like there may be some sort of issues between these two groups if the pilots don’t go along with them.

Glad there is now a better mechanism to help with these instances. And, it does seem like these are happening less often.




There should not be the jet bridge Admirals making rash decisions like this. They need to get the company security team involved. Airline security can get instant data on a passenger and if they are suspicious. If the questionable parties pass the company security test, then the options need to be to offer the passengers that are uncomfortable the opportunity to take a different flight (in my experience when it comes to a decision to inconvenience themselves they tend to not be as concerned). If the Flight Attendants are still uncomfortable after talking to the airline security team they too need to be offered to deplane.


I believe a ground security coordinator works with the crew while at the gate if a passenger is a problem. Not sure what a jetway admiral is.


Jetway Admiral is a Captain making unilateral decisions without input from the company security team. Most carriers use a security team in their operations centers to address passenger concerns. The GSC might be a resource but you need the corporate folks to get the intel.
 
ewt340
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:46 pm

I might not look middle eastern myself. But I'm gonna wear turban, thawb and fake beard. And see how many idiots I could scare off on my next flight.
 
kiowa
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:19 am

ewt340 wrote:
I might not look middle eastern myself. But I'm gonna wear turban, thawb and fake beard. And see how many idiots I could scare off on my next flight.


Hopefully it is the behavior that Delta found scary, not the attire.
 
ewt340
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:27 am

kiowa wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
I might not look middle eastern myself. But I'm gonna wear turban, thawb and fake beard. And see how many idiots I could scare off on my next flight.


Hopefully it is the behavior that Delta found scary, not the attire.


I hope so, but you already know that's a tall order.
 
kiowa
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:00 pm

ewt340 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
I might not look middle eastern myself. But I'm gonna wear turban, thawb and fake beard. And see how many idiots I could scare off on my next flight.


Hopefully it is the behavior that Delta found scary, not the attire.


I hope so, but you already know that's a tall order.


It certainly is. I have seen people freaking out about other passengers on aircraft. The ones I have seen are image related but backed up by weird, perhaps even provacative behavior. Its kind of strange how many teenagers (among many others) strive to stand out as unique just to make others uneasy.
 
sonicruiser
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:08 pm

Always found it ironic how Delta prides itself on diversity politics but is less culturally tolerant than both UA and AA. Being a Muslim American myself and having flown all US3 numerous times, I'm surprised this hasn't happened more times on Delta. The only time I have ever had an argument with a F/A on any airline was on Delta for a reason similar to these pax. There is something rotten in DL's culture, maybe they feel superior to everyone else, I don't know. They are easily the worst of the US3 when it comes to things like this. UA and AA aren't perfect, but both are more tolerant than DL in my personal experience. Happy to see the DOT finally taking some action.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
ewt340
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:23 am

kiowa wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
kiowa wrote:

Hopefully it is the behavior that Delta found scary, not the attire.


I hope so, but you already know that's a tall order.


It certainly is. I have seen people freaking out about other passengers on aircraft. The ones I have seen are image related but backed up by weird, perhaps even provacative behavior. Its kind of strange how many teenagers (among many others) strive to stand out as unique just to make others uneasy.


Not really, you're probably too nosy in the first place. Ignoring others are free and easy. You don't need to do anything to mind your own business.

I think those "unique" teenagers (whatever that mean, lol) might have just minding their own business until some people who forgot to take on their meds suddenly goes beserk.
 
kiowa
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Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:30 pm

ewt340 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

I hope so, but you already know that's a tall order.


It certainly is. I have seen people freaking out about other passengers on aircraft. The ones I have seen are image related but backed up by weird, perhaps even provacative behavior. Its kind of strange how many teenagers (among many others) strive to stand out as unique just to make others uneasy.


Not really, you're probably too nosy in the first place. Ignoring others are free and easy. You don't need to do anything to mind your own business.

I think those "unique" teenagers (whatever that mean, lol) might have just minding their own business until some people who forgot to take on their meds suddenly goes beserk.


Nosy? Perhaps it's my professional training and backround to be observant. Observant is a smart quality in today's world. "ignoring" is just that-ignorant. No need to insult someone for paying attention to things around them.
 
ewt340
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:41 am

kiowa wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
kiowa wrote:

It certainly is. I have seen people freaking out about other passengers on aircraft. The ones I have seen are image related but backed up by weird, perhaps even provacative behavior. Its kind of strange how many teenagers (among many others) strive to stand out as unique just to make others uneasy.


Not really, you're probably too nosy in the first place. Ignoring others are free and easy. You don't need to do anything to mind your own business.

I think those "unique" teenagers (whatever that mean, lol) might have just minding their own business until some people who forgot to take on their meds suddenly goes beserk.


Nosy? Perhaps it's my professional training and backround to be observant. Observant is a smart quality in today's world. "ignoring" is just that-ignorant. No need to insult someone for paying attention to things around them.


Calm down ma'am. No need to get emotional. I think everybody just need to stop getting angry for no reason when they see others who doesn't look or act like them.

Presumably, these teenagers you are talking about hasn't done anything illegal correct? Then you shouldn't even wasting your time getting worked up by random people who look or act differently than yourself. Unless you could proved that they are doing something illegal. Then you're out of luck here ma'am.

Same principle goes to the Muslim passengers on board on this Delta Flight. There's no evidence that he create problems during the flight or done something illegal. Hence why Delta get fined for making such mistakes.
 
Sokes
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Re: DOT fines Delta for discriminating against Muslim passengers

Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:25 pm

So what was the problem? The link doesn't tell.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?

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