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xwb565
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Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:48 am

FT is reporting Airbus is close to settling the corruption probes by the UK,EU and US.

One suspects the euro 3 billion figure spoken of will make a substantial dent into any development activities for the near future.

http://www.ft.com/content/cb81a5fc-4138 ... e9bd51ceba
 
xwb565
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:40 am

Now confirmed

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbu ... SKBN1ZR0HQ

“Airbus confirms that it has reached agreement in principle with the French Parquet National Financier, the U.K. Serious Fraud Office and the U.S. authorities,” Airbus said in a statement.
 
VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:49 am

Three billion US dollars is huge. It is too huge in my opinion.

I think a settlement in the five hundred million US dollars is more reasonable.
Well, it is still a five with eight zeros.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:11 am

The 3 billion seems to be a guess rather than a confirmed number.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:16 am

Probably a good timing for Airbus. It is small compared to the Boeing problem and therefore will not get a lot of media attention. So I think Airbus wanted to get over with it and swallowed the higher price tag to get it done during an aviation crisis that does not include Airbus.

Even though the $3B is towards the higher end of the spectrum Airbus definitely made provisions towards the settlement as this cases are ongoing since a while and a settlement was expected.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:28 am

No contest.

Airbus wants it off the table and filed under "expensive lessons". Everyone is happy and Airbus can easily afford the $3bn as it is far from cash-poor. I expect there were tears at bedtime although the change in leadership would have cleared the decks for this.
 
Noshow
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:45 am

Strange how much european companies pay for fraud. Are US companies paying similar amounts?
If they manage to finally solve it now it is quite important for Airbus. They even changed their CEO over the strategy concerning this topic.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:25 am

VV wrote:
Three billion US dollars is huge. It is too huge in my opinion.



A small price to pay in return for billions of profit Airbus made over the last decade.
Good moaning!
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:26 am

FluidFlow wrote:
Probably a good timing for Airbus. It is small compared to the Boeing problem and therefore will not get a lot of media attention. So I think Airbus wanted to get over with it and swallowed the higher price tag to get it done during an aviation crisis that does not include Airbus.


I also suspect that a high price tag means nobody will get prosecuted. So the company pays the bill and everyone moves on.
Good moaning!
 
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Polot
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:40 pm

Everyone is aware that the EU/UK are also involved in the fining and it is not just the US, right? In fact the EU/UK are probably getting the bulk of that EUR3 billion.
 
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par13del
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:51 pm

Polot wrote:
Everyone is aware that the EU/UK are also involved in the fining and it is not just the US, right? In fact the EU/UK are probably getting the bulk of that EUR3 billion.

Which will be recycled into RLI, or factory improvements or other projects indirectly affecting Airbus.
So really a distribution of funds for re-investment versus a straight forward loss as it will be recorded on the books. The UK is going through Brexit and may have to incur higher cost for continued production of Airbus products, so think through the possible scenarios.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:13 pm

Does anyone have an actual list of the orders that were won where bribes were paid? It's interesting that every time in the past I've asked for one I've been met with silence.
First to fly the 787-9
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:40 pm

zkojq wrote:
Does anyone have an actual list of the orders that were won where bribes were paid? It's interesting that every time in the past I've asked for one I've been met with silence.


I assume that nobody outside of Airbus and the different organisations, like the serious fraud office, do know that. I have heard it is in regards to military contracts, but I do not know how reliable that information is.

Perhaps you do the research here?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:43 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Does anyone have an actual list of the orders that were won where bribes were paid? It's interesting that every time in the past I've asked for one I've been met with silence.


I assume that nobody outside of Airbus and the different organisations, like the serious fraud office, do know that. I have heard it is in regards to military contracts, but I do not know how reliable that information is.

Perhaps you do the research here?


I heard various rumours that the Austrian Eurofighter scandal was related but it's hard to find anything solid.
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Revelation
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:23 pm

xwb565 wrote:
FT is reporting Airbus is close to settling the corruption probes by the UK,EU and US.

One suspects the euro 3 billion figure spoken of will make a substantial dent into any development activities for the near future.

http://www.ft.com/content/cb81a5fc-4138 ... e9bd51ceba

Yes, but not DE, according to Reuters:

A further German probe into potential misuse of client documents is ongoing.

Not sure how serious this is, though.

FluidFlow wrote:
Probably a good timing for Airbus. It is small compared to the Boeing problem and therefore will not get a lot of media attention. So I think Airbus wanted to get over with it and swallowed the higher price tag to get it done during an aviation crisis that does not include Airbus.

Even though the $3B is towards the higher end of the spectrum Airbus definitely made provisions towards the settlement as this cases are ongoing since a while and a settlement was expected.

Yes, this one was always going to end with a settlement. If they fought and lost they could have been barred from all US DoD contracts, something no defense contractor would want.

Channex757 wrote:
No contest.

Airbus wants it off the table and filed under "expensive lessons". Everyone is happy and Airbus can easily afford the $3bn as it is far from cash-poor. I expect there were tears at bedtime although the change in leadership would have cleared the decks for this.

The old regime is the one that self-reported this issue, closed down the "bullshit castle" (google it) and fired over 100 individuals.

I'd say bravo to the old regime for taking most of the hit, and leaving the new regime with not much more burden than writing the check (cheque?).

That, and for taking the A380 millstone off the necks of the new team.

PepeTheFrog wrote:
I also suspect that a high price tag means nobody will get prosecuted. So the company pays the bill and everyone moves on.

Reuters suggests otherwise, that this agreement puts the corporation in the clear but individuals may still be prosecuted.

Polot wrote:
Everyone is aware that the EU/UK are also involved in the fining and it is not just the US, right? In fact the EU/UK are probably getting the bulk of that EUR3 billion.

It seems everyone skipped over that part so they could slag the Mercans and feed the Europeans as victims narrative.
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WIederling
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:52 pm

Revelation wrote:
Yes, but not DE, according to Reuters:

A further German probe into potential misuse of client documents is ongoing.



different domain. This is not about bribes or similar
but about indiscriminate wandering of documents between Bundeswehr and Airbus the way I've understood it.
( on the other hand: if you share a program ... )
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bundesw ... s+spionage ( use Gtranslate to get at the meat.)
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JetBuddy
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:25 pm

FluidFlow wrote:
Probably a good timing for Airbus. It is small compared to the Boeing problem and therefore will not get a lot of media attention. So I think Airbus wanted to get over with it and swallowed the higher price tag to get it done during an aviation crisis that does not include Airbus.

Even though the $3B is towards the higher end of the spectrum Airbus definitely made provisions towards the settlement as this cases are ongoing since a while and a settlement was expected.


Yep. Stock prices are up since the news.
 
airboeingbus
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:54 pm

What does this mean for the tarrifs on airbus aircraft in the USA? Is that another issue to this?
 
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Polot
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:56 pm

airboeingbus wrote:
What does this mean for the tarrifs on airbus aircraft in the USA? Is that another issue to this?

Separate issue. That is involving the long standing dispute over the legality and fairness of subsidies used for Airbus/Boeing commercial projects, not the corruption probe.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:52 pm

Reuters cites a French source saying the amounts are settled:

PARIS (Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus will pay 3.592 billion euros ($3.98 billion) to settle corruption probes by U.S., British and French authorities into contract dealings, France’s financial prosecutor said on Friday.

...

Airbus has reached an agreement to settle corruption charges with France’s financial prosecutor for 2.08 billion euros, the prosecutor said. Announcements from British and U.S. authorities on their settlements were expected later on Friday.

...

The deal, believed by anti-corruption experts to be the largest ever in a bribery case, ends an almost four-year crisis that led to a sweeping management overhaul and delayed plans to redeploy the plane giant’s cash surplus.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... ZU1X4?il=0
 
Virtual737
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:29 pm

I would be reasonably confident that more contracts in these areas include bribes (/ gifts / off the books payments / call them what you like) than do not. It is the way that business has been done for many years.

Boeing will have almost certainly done the same, as will RR, CFM and any number of other corporations.

It is illegal in our western societies, but that only matters if you are caught.
 
PixelPilot
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:46 pm

Massive airbus scandal and crickets on this topic lol. A-net is so predictable.
 
VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:04 pm

You need two parties for a corruption.

What about the other side? Is someone going to prosecute those airline executives and wives of executives and others?
 
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william
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:58 pm

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/a ... al-budget/

Airbus used its 150-person strategy and marketing department to pay bribes to win business, according to prosecutors in Washington, D.C. The company made $50 million in improper payments to AirAsia Group directors through the sponsorship of a sports team, promised to pay off the relative of a high-ranking Ghanaian government official and paid $2 million to the wife of a Sri Lankan Airways purchasing official, according to the U.K. judgment.

The company’s crimes in the U.S. included export violations, the court was told.

“Airbus has admitted to a yearslong campaign of corruption around the world,” said U.S. Attorney Jessie Liu of the District of Columbia. “Through bribes, Airbus allowed rampant corruption to invade the U.S. system. Additionally, Airbus falsely reported information about their conduct to the U.S. government for more than five years in order to gain valuable licenses to export U.S. military technology.”

In the U.K., there were five counts, four relating to commercial aircraft in Malaysia, Sri Lanka and Taiwan while the fifth related to a defense contract.

The wrongdoing first came to light when the U.K.’s export finance body, which supports some Airbus sales, questioned the company about missing information about sales agents contained in its filings, according to the U.K. judgment.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:03 pm

VV wrote:
What about the other side? Is someone going to prosecute those airline executives and wives of executives and others?


And how are you going to do that? The deals involved are not from Western based airlines. For example, one deal dates from 2003 with Saudi Arabian Airlines. Good luck finding those executives from 17 years ago in the Middle East. They will have a good laugh.
Good moaning!
 
sxf24
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:28 am

Virtual737 wrote:
I would be reasonably confident that more contracts in these areas include bribes (/ gifts / off the books payments / call them what you like) than do not. It is the way that business has been done for many years.

Boeing will have almost certainly done the same, as will RR, CFM and any number of other corporations.

It is illegal in our western societies, but that only matters if you are caught.


US companies have very, very strict rules about paying bribes called FCPA. If they have government contracts, they’re regularly audited on compliance. This is a pretty strong legal and cultural concept shared with Britain.

I can guarantee Boeing and CFM have not engaged in the type of behavior. By many accounts, both the Air Asia and Saudia A330 campaigns were won due to the behavior Airbus pleaded guilty to.

P.S. Airbus did not come clean, they were caught by UK Export Finance.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:00 am

sxf24 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
I would be reasonably confident that more contracts in these areas include bribes (/ gifts / off the books payments / call them what you like) than do not. It is the way that business has been done for many years.

Boeing will have almost certainly done the same, as will RR, CFM and any number of other corporations.

It is illegal in our western societies, but that only matters if you are caught.


US companies have very, very strict rules about paying bribes called FCPA. If they have government contracts, they’re regularly audited on compliance. This is a pretty strong legal and cultural concept shared with Britain.

I can guarantee Boeing and CFM have not engaged in the type of behavior. By many accounts, both the Air Asia and Saudia A330 campaigns were won due to the behavior Airbus pleaded guilty to.

P.S. Airbus did not come clean, they were caught by UK Export Finance.

Honestly paying bribes is very routine in some of these countries to get deals done, so the fact that Boeing has been getting sales in those regions suggest either knowingly or unknowingly allowed at the very least some games to happen.
 
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:56 am

MIflyer12 wrote:

TFA says:

Court filings in Britain and the United States outlined efforts to keep relationships and payments secret, including the use of code names such as ‘Van Gogh’ and payments described as “medications and dosages prescribed by Dr Brown”.

I wonder why that particular code name was chosen.

French and U.S. prosecutors said the settlement covered Airbus only as a company and any current or former employees involved in related crimes could still be open to prosecution.

“With this settlement we’ve completed a first phase ... we are now going to have to examine individual responsibilities,” French prosecutor Bohnert told reporters.

Lots of people will be looking over their shoulders I would think.

Others say the system, whose roots go back decades to an era when payments to win deals were tolerated and tax-deductible, was an open secret in the company and French political circles where it was intertwined with influence-building abroad.

Ditto.
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sxf24
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:16 am

dstblj52 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
I would be reasonably confident that more contracts in these areas include bribes (/ gifts / off the books payments / call them what you like) than do not. It is the way that business has been done for many years.

Boeing will have almost certainly done the same, as will RR, CFM and any number of other corporations.

It is illegal in our western societies, but that only matters if you are caught.


US companies have very, very strict rules about paying bribes called FCPA. If they have government contracts, they’re regularly audited on compliance. This is a pretty strong legal and cultural concept shared with Britain.

I can guarantee Boeing and CFM have not engaged in the type of behavior. By many accounts, both the Air Asia and Saudia A330 campaigns were won due to the behavior Airbus pleaded guilty to.

P.S. Airbus did not come clean, they were caught by UK Export Finance.

Honestly paying bribes is very routine in some of these countries to get deals done, so the fact that Boeing has been getting sales in those regions suggest either knowingly or unknowingly allowed at the very least some games to happen.


Paying bribes is not routine.

I’ve been asked for bribes before and you say no. Sometimes you loose the business, but at least you know you lost honestly.

Market share does not justify cheating.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:34 am

DAMN! For that kind of money? They could have GIVEN 100 A320's away and not felt the crunch! I'd like to know whom they Bribed aside from why they went after Boeing for getting US Govt, contracts while they WERE doing the bribes!
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:07 am

sxf24 wrote:
Paying bribes is not routine.

I’ve been asked for bribes before and you say no. Sometimes you loose the business, but at least you know you lost honestly.

Market share does not justify cheating.


And most legitimate large US businesses have extensive training on the topic, making it clear that employees are not to jeopardize the company’s ability to gain government contracts by violating this principle.

Has Boeing given gifts to airline purchasers that are probably over the line? Sure, someone’s probably been invited to a “business meeting” at the Super Bowl before. That kind of sales force excess certainly occurs, and moderately inappropriate gifts in the thousands of dollars range are more routine than they should be.

But $50 million dollars into an unmarked Swiss bank account? No, that’s just not how business is done in the US, and the ways to hide sums of money that large in accounting paperwork would require collusion at a very high level in the corporate governance structure. Frankly, I didn’t think it was how business was done in Europe, either - I would have thought this culture would be equally strong, if not stronger, in Germany and France.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:28 am

william wrote:
Airbus used its 150-person strategy and marketing department to pay bribes to win business, according to prosecutors in Washington, D.C. The company made $50 million in improper payments to AirAsia Group directors through the sponsorship of a sports team, promised to pay off the relative of a high-ranking Ghanaian government official and paid $2 million to the wife of a Sri Lankan Airways purchasing official, according to the U.K. judgment.


I remember the sponsorship deal. It was rather amazing how a backmarker F1 team like Caterham was able to feature bluechip sponsors like Airbus & GE when even better funded teams couldn't manage to snag such sponsors.

VV wrote:
What about the other side? Is someone going to prosecute those airline executives and wives of executives and others?


It's better to prosecute those who give than those who ask/receive. The deterrent would be much stronger that way.
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n7371f
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:40 am

Now we know a lot more about cocky John Leahy's sales wins...
 
VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:20 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:
VV wrote:
What about the other side? Is someone going to prosecute those airline executives and wives of executives and others?


And how are you going to do that? The deals involved are not from Western based airlines. For example, one deal dates from 2003 with Saudi Arabian Airlines. Good luck finding those executives from 17 years ago in the Middle East. They will have a good laugh.


I am also wondering if the countries or airlines could cancel the remaining ordered items, if any, without any penalty since the contract was obtained by the individuals fraudulently. It could be handy during this coronavirus crisis.
 
VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 8:24 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
...
VV wrote:
What about the other side? Is someone going to prosecute those airline executives and wives of executives and others?


It's better to prosecute those who give than those who ask/receive. The deterrent would be much stronger that way.


Cannot you see the fact that those corrupt people did something wrong toward their people, country and/or their airlines? Therefore, since the case is now uncovered publicly then lawsuits can start in each country using the findings to prosecute the wrongdoers.

https://www.sfo.gov.uk/download/airbus- ... -of-facts/

https://www.sfo.gov.uk/2020/01/31/sfo-e ... esolution/
 
VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:41 am

dstblj52 wrote:
...

Honestly paying bribes is very routine in some of these countries to get deals done, so the fact that Boeing has been getting sales in those regions suggest either knowingly or unknowingly allowed at the very least some games to happen.


Routine? What the heck?

In any case, even if it happens every now and then it does not mean it is right.

In addition, isn't it a little bit everyone's duty to put into place integrity, a fair and honest business practice? This includes huge western corporations.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:27 am

The countries I see listed are corrupt to the core, to the point people there don't even understand the concept of corruption, to them it's normal life.

I doubt you can do any business there without greasing some palms.

These anti-corruption practices seem well-intentioned, but I have my doubts they're effective at what they claim to do. They have been pushed by the US on European countries, who adopted similar rules under duress, allowing US prosecutors to routinely get billions of dollars from European companies. They also prosecute US companies of course, to appear fair.

Noshow wrote:
Strange how much european companies pay for fraud. Are US companies paying similar amounts?
If they manage to finally solve it now it is quite important for Airbus. They even changed their CEO over the strategy concerning this topic.


I could find that Boeing paid 600 millions over the KC-X debacle. No EU agency at the time prosecuted them, maybe they should have.
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VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:39 am

Aesma wrote:
The countries I see listed are corrupt to the core, to the point people there don't even understand the concept of corruption, to them it's normal life.

I doubt you can do any business there without greasing some palms
.....


It still does not justify the corrupt behavior of any "sophisticated" corporations based in "developed" countries.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:43 am

n7371f wrote:
Now we know a lot more about cocky John Leahy's sales wins...


Ir's not just Airbus in the shady payments.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... o-suggests
 
Virtual737
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:54 am

sxf24 wrote:
I’ve been asked for bribes before and you say no.


Out of interest, which countries was this in, for what approximate overall contract value and were there any other competing bidders?

It's not just that you might lose a sale in some parts of the world, but that it's hardly even worth being considered. Your beliefs and your laws say that it is wrong. That does not mean to say that there are other beliefs and customs in other parts of the world that take a completely different stance, rightly or wrongly, depending on your point of view.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:56 am

VV wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The countries I see listed are corrupt to the core, to the point people there don't even understand the concept of corruption, to them it's normal life.

I doubt you can do any business there without greasing some palms
.....


It still does not justify the corrupt behavior of any "sophisticated" corporations based in "developed" countries.


If everyone is doing it, you can't afford to not do it. Companies aren't there to improve society, even if some do it.

What really happens is that things are hidden better. I'm sure now cryptocurrencies are used for bribes, for example. Give some people a higher bonus/salary than granted, that person then buys bitcoins on account of the company... No need to fiddle the books.
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:01 am

Aesma wrote:
The countries I see listed are corrupt to the core, to the point people there don't even understand the concept of corruption, to them it's normal life.

I doubt you can do any business there without greasing some palms.

These anti-corruption practices seem well-intentioned, but I have my doubts they're effective at what they claim to do. They have been pushed by the US on European countries, who adopted similar rules under duress, allowing US prosecutors to routinely get billions of dollars from European companies. They also prosecute US companies of course, to appear fair.


If nobody gives the demanded bribe, then nobody will get any. Simple as that.

If France & the US are bastions of incorruptibility, then the companies shouldn't have acquiesced to the bribe request. But they didn't, so you can't really blame "corrupt to the core countries" alone for this. It takes two to tango.
Last edited by TheFlyingDisk on Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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T54A
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:03 am

South Africa now also investigating Airbus deals going back to 2002.

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... l-20200131
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VV
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Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:08 am

Aesma wrote:
VV wrote:
Aesma wrote:
The countries I see listed are corrupt to the core, to the point people there don't even understand the concept of corruption, to them it's normal life.

I doubt you can do any business there without greasing some palms
.....


It still does not justify the corrupt behavior of any "sophisticated" corporations based in "developed" countries.


If everyone is doing it, you can't afford to not do it. Companies aren't there to improve society, even if some do it.
...


What the hell?
No. It still does not justify a bad behavior. Full stop.
 
VV
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:14 am

The good thing about these investigations and penalties is that it is much easier for individuals (the sellers) to say no.
They can now just say, "No, I cannot do it" when they are asked to pay bribery.

In reality I am more concerned by the fact some employees of the seller company also got some kickbacks of the kickbacks. Do you see what I mean?

"Hey, please ask my company to bribe you ten millions to make this deal happen. And then you give me one million from those ten."

This behavior would be even worse. It then raises the question whether an investigation should be launched on the individuals who worked in the company during those years.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13020
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:19 am

VV wrote:
Aesma wrote:
VV wrote:
It still does not justify the corrupt behavior of any "sophisticated" corporations based in "developed" countries.


If everyone is doing it, you can't afford to not do it. Companies aren't there to improve society, even if some do it.
...


What the hell?
No. It still does not justify a bad behavior. Full stop.


Since when does the USA care about "bad behavior" ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Virtual737
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:31 am

Aesma wrote:
Since when does the USA care about "bad behavior" ?


You forget that it's not bad behaviour if the US is doing it.

We in the west are so quick to believe that we are right and others are wrong. Upthread ^^^ somebody just put a stop to all the world's corruption in a single sentence.

It's almost laughable seeing the holier than thou attitudes from many when others act differently to their beliefs, while the same people totally ignore anyone's else's position when the tables are turned.
 
VV
Posts: 1702
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:42 am

Virtual737 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Since when does the USA care about "bad behavior" ?


You forget that it's not bad behaviour if the US is doing it.

We in the west are so quick to believe that we are right and others are wrong. Upthread ^^^ somebody just put a stop to all the world's corruption in a single sentence.

It's almost laughable seeing the holier than thou attitudes from many when others act differently to their beliefs, while the same people totally ignore anyone's else's position when the tables are turned.


What the hell is this discourse?

I am a European and I am disgusted by such a mentality.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 717
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:47 am

VV wrote:

What the hell is this discourse?

I am a European and I am disgusted by such a mentality.


Is Europe not in the west?
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 500
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Report: Airbus set to settle corruption probe

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:01 pm

Revelation wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-
Court filings in Britain and the United States outlined efforts to keep relationships and payments secret, including the use of code names such as ‘Van Gogh’ and payments described as “medications and dosages prescribed by Dr Brown”.

I wonder why that particular code name was chosen.



Van Gogh's famous for The Starry Night and also cutting off one of his ears. Can be quite the code for "see no evil, hear no evil". Just a thought.

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