Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:20 pm

Clackers wrote:
Singapore Airlines Group are being extraordinarily irrespondible.

All eastbound Scoot flights should be grounded, westbound flights reduced by 50%.

SilkAir needs to be 100% grounded. Nobody flies with them anyway lol.


Being irresponsible how?

Seriously, nobody outside of East Asia (including China) had reduced flights or cancelled flights into Singapore. I guess UA is being VERY irresponsible for still flying to SIN from SFO? The like of EU3, ME3, QF/NZ, etc. not reducing their SIN flights one bit?

If SIA Group will cut more flights, it'll be bc the planes are empty, period. Well, Changi airport right now is definitely dead compare to usual anyway.

Some of the hysteria is just insane...

P.S. Just randomly scrolling through UA's seat map, to no surprise, SFO->SIN is half empty (although SQ1 J is full) while SIN->SFO is 80% filled up.
 
Nileblue
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 1:20 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:21 pm

Nileblue wrote:
EgyptAir have announced the suspension of flights to China including Hangzhou (from 01FEB), Beijing (from 04FEB) and Guangzhou (from 04FEB). Hong Kong flights will continue to operate.


EgyptAir will resume a limited service to China with a weekly flight operating CAI-PEK-CAN-PEK-CAI from 27FEB.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4755
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 7:13 pm

Photo from SCMP of parked planes at HKG

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERNhWrzU8AAIt-u?format=jpg&
mercure f-wtcc
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 858
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:28 pm

I see CA offering running domestic flights within the US. LAX to SFO and JFK to IAD. Do you know if passengers go through immigration at the first point of entry?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:51 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
I see CA offering running domestic flights within the US. LAX to SFO and JFK to IAD. Do you know if passengers go through immigration at the first point of entry?


Just looking at their schedule:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ir%20china

My guess is that pax goes through immigration and custom at LAX and JFK. Don't see why they would stop for 3.5 hours going to US otherwise (On the return the stop time is 1hr45mins for SFO-LAX-PEK and 2hr for IAD-JFK-PEK).

BTW it's not "domestic" flight, but just tag-ons. CA obviously can't carry pax between LAX and SFO or JFK and IAD.

mercure1 wrote:
Photo from SCMP of parked planes at HKG

Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERNhWrzU8AAIt-u?format=jpg&


Wow...is all I'll say.

On a side note - I guess the Midfield Concourse is no longer in used? Those CX planes on the right of the picture are parking at the gates of the MFC, right?
 
me89
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:54 pm

A TK charter flight with pax from the in Cambodia stranded cruise ship, which was underway from PNH to IST diverted to KHI. Looking at the track it seemed they were in holding above Iran before turning back to KHI. Does anyone know why? Were they maybe denied entry into Turkish Airspace? https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... m#23ecc26c
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 858
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:01 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I see CA offering running domestic flights within the US. LAX to SFO and JFK to IAD. Do you know if passengers go through immigration at the first point of entry?


Just looking at their schedule:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ir%20china

My guess is that pax goes through immigration and custom at LAX and JFK. Don't see why they would stop for 3.5 hours going to US otherwise (On the return the stop time is 1hr45mins for SFO-LAX-PEK and 2hr for IAD-JFK-PEK).

BTW it's not "domestic" flight, but just tag-ons. CA obviously can't carry pax between LAX and SFO or JFK and IAD.

My opinion is they should keep the passengers on the plane to have less of a chance to infect others.
 
miguel0881
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:37 pm

Is there any information on the specific US-HKG flights that CX has cancelled, including dates? For example, I do not see any non-stop flights operating between HKG and IAD for the next week at least. Was this announced?
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4755
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:41 pm

miguel0881 wrote:
Is there any information on the specific US-HKG flights that CX has cancelled, including dates? For example, I do not see any non-stop flights operating between HKG and IAD for the next week at least. Was this announced?


Yes posted previously.

You can also see more in specific CX cuts thread >> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431097
mercure f-wtcc
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24507
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:43 pm

Air China asked DOT to allow it to combine JFK/IAD services till September now. Original authority expires in March.

Nothing similar to LAX and SFO, so suspect they will resume individual flights at the soonest opportunity of market normalization.

OST-2020-0014
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:36 am

Reports that a New Chitose airport (Hokkaido, Japan) quarantine officer has tested positive for Covid-19.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 679
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:12 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Reports that a New Chitose airport (Hokkaido, Japan) quarantine officer has tested positive for Covid-19.


soon Japan and South Korea will be see the same decline as China, in the future all world will be quarantined. then back to business.
 
T4thH
Posts: 971
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:45 am

Nowadays, working machines like excavators are online connected with the producer, to perform online checks, if repairs are needed and to verify the maintenance status,e.g. The excavator values from one company are: 50% less working hours compared to last years values.
Additional the data of generation of electricity for China for coal fired power plants are available (at 60% compared to last year values).

The economy in China is now running at 50%, slowly increasing. From the migratory workers, it seems only 25 to 30 % are now back at work.
Hotels in Germany expects 1% less guest-nights for 2020, just regarding less guests from China.
We will see a big impact on the global aviation market in 2020.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:21 pm

KU has stopped flying to Iran along with YI.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN20E2R1

A pax on a Mahan Air flight THR-BEY tested positive for coronavirus. All the pax were advised to self quarantine at home for 14 days.
 
miguel0881
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:52 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:10 pm

mercure1 wrote:
miguel0881 wrote:
Is there any information on the specific US-HKG flights that CX has cancelled, including dates? For example, I do not see any non-stop flights operating between HKG and IAD for the next week at least. Was this announced?


Yes posted previously.

You can also see more in specific CX cuts thread >> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1431097


Thanks. I wonder if some cuts (including IAD) will extend beyond March or become permanent.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:18 pm

HKG provides airlines abreak on fees and rental charges

Hong Kong airport unveils HK$1.6 billion package to support industry buckling under coronavirus outbreak, anti-government protests
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... ge-support
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
747d10
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:02 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:46 pm

asuflyer wrote:
KU has stopped flying to Iran along with YI.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN20E2R1

A pax on a Mahan Air flight THR-BEY tested positive for coronavirus. All the pax were advised to self quarantine at home for 14 days.


Is there a link to an article regarding the Mahan Air flight? This sounds pretty bad.
E145 E190 F100 L10/15 DC8 D8S D10 M11 D91/S/5 M80 M90 717 727/S 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/42/43/44 752 762/3/4 77E/L 788 A300 310 319 320 321 333 Concorde
AA AC AF AL AQ AS BN CI CO CX DL EA FL HA HU HY KL MC MU MX NA NC NW OZ PA PI QH RC SQ TI TW UA US WA 9K
 
asuflyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:05 pm

747d10 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
KU has stopped flying to Iran along with YI.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chin ... SKBN20E2R1

A pax on a Mahan Air flight THR-BEY tested positive for coronavirus. All the pax were advised to self quarantine at home for 14 days.


Is there a link to an article regarding the Mahan Air flight? This sounds pretty bad.


https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/02 ... ister.html

The flight was Mahan Air 1152 from THR was operating over 9 hours late. The video below shows the pax given masks and temperatures taken.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230912445121810432
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8763
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:09 am

Given that this thing seems to be significantly more contagious then people thought, and that it can be transmitted by people who show no symptoms, Bravo to the Kalitta pilots who flew those State Department charters. They were likely in significantly more Peril than they realized.

Looking back, the measures taken by the Chinese government, which seemed absurdly Draconian at first, now seem almost insufficient. One has to wonder whether the powers that be in China knew what they were dealing with, and knew how deadly and easily transmitted it was, when making those decisions. Fortunately for the Western world, but very unfortunately for Asia, it does seem that this virus is more deadly to Asians than caucasians. Remarkable to see that at least four high-profile Physicians treating these patients, young guys all, have now died of that virus. Here's hoping that the Gilead antiviral product will turn out to to be if not a Panacea at least a significant help. All anecdotal evidence seems to point to this, but until they can get that double-blind study up and completed in a month or so, we really won't know.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14960
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:06 am

asuflyer wrote:

The flight was Mahan Air 1152 from THR was operating over 9 hours late. The video below shows the pax given masks and temperatures taken.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1230912445121810432


Iran has now reported one death as a result of the virus to the WHO.

wjcandee wrote:
Given that this thing seems to be significantly more contagious then people thought, and that it can be transmitted by people who show no symptoms, Bravo to the Kalitta pilots who flew those State Department charters. They were likely in significantly more Peril than they realized.


Airline crews in general are healthier than those who die from the virus. This virus like influenza is more fatal to those with pre-existing medical conditions, compromised immune systems, or the elderly. Given the precautions taken by these airlines to provide physical barriers like full face plastic shields and gloves from the passengers I think the real risk to them to close to zero.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:30 am

Subsidies are flowing right and left for airlines. After China and Hong Kong, Korea is unleashing subsidies to sustain the airline industry.

We'll probable see EU airlines get some subsidies too as the first uncontained outbreak is unraveling in Italy.

God speed to everyone, this is going to be a bumpy one.
 
User avatar
hongkongflyer
Posts: 798
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:47 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
I see CA offering running domestic flights within the US. LAX to SFO and JFK to IAD. Do you know if passengers go through immigration at the first point of entry?


Just looking at their schedule:
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... ir%20china

My guess is that pax goes through immigration and custom at LAX and JFK. Don't see why they would stop for 3.5 hours going to US otherwise (On the return the stop time is 1hr45mins for SFO-LAX-PEK and 2hr for IAD-JFK-PEK).

BTW it's not "domestic" flight, but just tag-ons. CA obviously can't carry pax between LAX and SFO or JFK and IAD.

mercure1 wrote:
Photo from SCMP of parked planes at HKG

Image



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERNhWrzU8AAIt-u?format=jpg&


Wow...is all I'll say.

On a side note - I guess the Midfield Concourse is no longer in used? Those CX planes on the right of the picture are parking at the gates of the MFC, right?


Yes , MFC is temporary closed, as well as the NSC which is the home of KA's NB
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7325
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:45 am

The Wamos Air 747 is due to touch down in about 1 hr, going into MoD Boscombe Down air base.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51594507

https://www.flightradar24.com/PLM8471/23f1dc3b
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11099
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:00 pm

Cathay Pacific latest changes for Feb/March

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21feb20/
Forum Moderator
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3488
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:33 pm

qf789 wrote:
Cathay Pacific latest changes for Feb/March

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21feb20/


You know things are bad when LHR get reduced by more than half.

Not a fun time for CX/KA at all.
 
Speedalive
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:40 pm

qf789 wrote:
Cathay Pacific latest changes for Feb/March

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-21feb20/

Not good! :shock:
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:36 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
the first uncontained outbreak is unraveling in Italy.

God speed to everyone, this is going to be a bumpy one.


Corona has now arrived in the middle of the open EU, I would be surprised if it doesn't spread further sooner or later. Also the European/Atlantic aviation can expect a major head ache, I'm afraid.
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 1773
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:37 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:48 pm

The good news is that if it's already everywhere we might as well bring the flights back again. There's no point trying to stop something that is already there.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:37 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
The good news is that if it's already everywhere we might as well bring the flights back again. There's no point trying to stop something that is already there.


The bad news is that people are going to barricade themselves in their houses and shelve plans for that holiday or that visit to their friends.
Businessmen are not going to take chances of contracting this either.
Crews will need to be convinced to fly.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 586
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:03 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
The good news is that if it's already everywhere we might as well bring the flights back again. There's no point trying to stop something that is already there.

The point is to mitigate the situation by making it difficult for people who are infected and aren’t aware of it from traveling. The key here is to make sure the health services of a country are not overwhelmed and to keep numbers as low as possible.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
ual4life
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:10 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:39 pm

Those parked planes remind me of 9/11. I wonder if Europe is shut down and the US if the economic ramifications for airlines will be worse than 9/11 in the end.
NNVII
 
Clackers
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:29 pm

The following airports outside of China need to be closed until further notice: TPE, ICN, PUS, HKG, MNL

I would say SIN too but their economy is too important ngl.

So many people are still underestimating this virus it is shocking.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3648
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:36 pm

Clackers wrote:
The following airports outside of China need to be closed until further notice: TPE, ICN, PUS, HKG, MNL

I would say SIN too but their economy is too important ngl.

So many people are still underestimating this virus it is shocking.


What about Japanese airports?

Although Korea has a higher official count, part of that is because they're doing aggressive contact tracing and IIRC their testing capacity is over fivefold that of Japan. Unfortunately things might turn out really bad for Japan since they released hundreds of people from the cruise ship, some of whom have tested positive after being tested negative on the ship. Some of them even used public transport to return home!
Flown: 2L 7C 9E 9L AA AB AC AF AY AZ BA BR BX B6 CA CO CP CX DL EK EY JL KE KL LA LH LX MQ NW OZ PD RW SQ TG TP TR TS US WG WN WS XE XJ
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14960
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:41 pm

Clackers wrote:
The following airports outside of China need to be closed until further notice: TPE, ICN, PUS, HKG, MNL

I would say SIN too but their economy is too important ngl.

So many people are still underestimating this virus it is shocking.


I don’t understand your logic, why close MNL and leave SIN open ?

BKK, DMK, HND, NRT ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:01 pm

:old:

As a reminder, this thread is solely meant for aviation-related discussions.

If you seek to hold a broader discussion feel free to post in the Coronavirus thread in Non-Av >>> viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1438989
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
Aither
Posts: 1284
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:43 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:04 pm

I wonder what airlines can do under such event to reduce their losses. Obviously the easy answer is stop flying & force the staff to leave/trainings/voluntary leaves....but what else ?

- Anticipated aircraft maintenance ?
- Increasing capacity to new destinations if possible ?
- Increase tag ends destinations ?
- Lease aircraft to other airlines (but who ?)
- Play with revenue management (less flights but higher fares as the ones who are traveling probably really need to travel).
- Delay aircraft deliveries and earlier phase out of older air frames ?
- Fuel hedging to partially compensate the current losses by higher profits in the future ?
- Capture transit traffic of other airlines having stopped many of their operations ?
Other things ?

Certainly after such a crisis there will be big losers but also winners. Maintaining capacity these days can make the airline go bankrupt or make it a winner when the market will be back.
Never trust the obvious
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:28 pm

Aither wrote:
I wonder what airlines can do under such event to reduce their losses. Obviously the easy answer is stop flying & force the staff to leave/trainings/voluntary leaves....but what else ?

- Anticipated aircraft maintenance ?
- Increasing capacity to new destinations if possible ?
- Increase tag ends destinations ?
- Lease aircraft to other airlines (but who ?)
- Play with revenue management (less flights but higher fares as the ones who are traveling probably really need to travel).
- Delay aircraft deliveries and earlier phase out of older air frames ?
- Fuel hedging to partially compensate the current losses by higher profits in the future ?
- Capture transit traffic of other airlines having stopped many of their operations ?
Other things ?

Certainly after such a crisis there will be big losers but also winners. Maintaining capacity these days can make the airline go bankrupt or make it a winner when the market will be back.


Airlines in the heavily hit area's should start considering offering their assets to combat this crisis.

-Aircraft assets:
Aircraft are perfect as isolation facilities, clinical environment control can be achieved. It will be safer for medical professionals too and will reduce secondary infections.
Aircraft cabins typical suck air back out at floor level on the sidewalls, so this strongly reduces the amount of infectious air cycling around the mouth and nose level.
Remove seats and start installing walls to build compartments. It' s faster than building pseudo-hospitals wherein construction workers are exposed to possible infections and the roofs are leaking, no compartments are present.
Remaining aircraft used as charters, flying ambulances to move patients around to provincial facilities with capacity.
Hundreds, thousands of aircraft grounded = a lot of capacity.

-People assets:
Train voluntary cabin and flight crew to perform basic care duties in support of shorthanded nurses and doctors.

-Catering facilities: obviously, provide meals to the aircraft used as isolation facilities.

-Infrastructures:
Maintenance buildings: Use as area's for disinfection of crews returning from aircraft, general laundry and logistics, support base for the crews working the aircraft. They are huge, so they are convenient and allow to reduce close contact.
HQ's operate as the brains of the whole operation. Organise charter flights to move patients around to facilities where capacity is available.


What's in it for the airlines? Quicker crisis resolution and they can get paid big money by the governments plus marketing impact.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:27 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Aither wrote:
I wonder what airlines can do under such event to reduce their losses. Obviously the easy answer is stop flying & force the staff to leave/trainings/voluntary leaves....but what else ?

- Anticipated aircraft maintenance ?
- Increasing capacity to new destinations if possible ?
- Increase tag ends destinations ?
- Lease aircraft to other airlines (but who ?)
- Play with revenue management (less flights but higher fares as the ones who are traveling probably really need to travel).
- Delay aircraft deliveries and earlier phase out of older air frames ?
- Fuel hedging to partially compensate the current losses by higher profits in the future ?
- Capture transit traffic of other airlines having stopped many of their operations ?
Other things ?

Certainly after such a crisis there will be big losers but also winners. Maintaining capacity these days can make the airline go bankrupt or make it a winner when the market will be back.


Airlines in the heavily hit area's should start considering offering their assets to combat this crisis.

-Aircraft assets:
Aircraft are perfect as isolation facilities, clinical environment control can be achieved. It will be safer for medical professionals too and will reduce secondary infections.
Aircraft cabins typical suck air back out at floor level on the sidewalls, so this strongly reduces the amount of infectious air cycling around the mouth and nose level.
Remove seats and start installing walls to build compartments. It' s faster than building pseudo-hospitals wherein construction workers are exposed to possible infections and the roofs are leaking, no compartments are present.
Remaining aircraft used as charters, flying ambulances to move patients around to provincial facilities with capacity.
Hundreds, thousands of aircraft grounded = a lot of capacity.

-People assets:
Train voluntary cabin and flight crew to perform basic care duties in support of shorthanded nurses and doctors.

-Catering facilities: obviously, provide meals to the aircraft used as isolation facilities.

-Infrastructures:
Maintenance buildings: Use as area's for disinfection of crews returning from aircraft, general laundry and logistics, support base for the crews working the aircraft. They are huge, so they are convenient and allow to reduce close contact.
HQ's operate as the brains of the whole operation. Organise charter flights to move patients around to facilities where capacity is available.


What's in it for the airlines? Quicker crisis resolution and they can get paid big money by the governments plus marketing impact.


Removing seats and installing walls alone would cost tens of millions of dollars, especially once you factor in that you then need to reinstall seats when the aircraft get put back into service. Maintenance or wet leasing makes way more sense than the plan you're proposing which would require complete overhaul of airports and aircraft, something that airlines and governments likely would not have the bandwidth to do quickly.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:58 am

NYCVIE wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Aither wrote:
I wonder what airlines can do under such event to reduce their losses. Obviously the easy answer is stop flying & force the staff to leave/trainings/voluntary leaves....but what else ?

- Anticipated aircraft maintenance ?
- Increasing capacity to new destinations if possible ?
- Increase tag ends destinations ?
- Lease aircraft to other airlines (but who ?)
- Play with revenue management (less flights but higher fares as the ones who are traveling probably really need to travel).
- Delay aircraft deliveries and earlier phase out of older air frames ?
- Fuel hedging to partially compensate the current losses by higher profits in the future ?
- Capture transit traffic of other airlines having stopped many of their operations ?
Other things ?

Certainly after such a crisis there will be big losers but also winners. Maintaining capacity these days can make the airline go bankrupt or make it a winner when the market will be back.


Airlines in the heavily hit area's should start considering offering their assets to combat this crisis.

-Aircraft assets:
Aircraft are perfect as isolation facilities, clinical environment control can be achieved. It will be safer for medical professionals too and will reduce secondary infections.
Aircraft cabins typical suck air back out at floor level on the sidewalls, so this strongly reduces the amount of infectious air cycling around the mouth and nose level.
Remove seats and start installing walls to build compartments. It' s faster than building pseudo-hospitals wherein construction workers are exposed to possible infections and the roofs are leaking, no compartments are present.
Remaining aircraft used as charters, flying ambulances to move patients around to provincial facilities with capacity.
Hundreds, thousands of aircraft grounded = a lot of capacity.

-People assets:
Train voluntary cabin and flight crew to perform basic care duties in support of shorthanded nurses and doctors.

-Catering facilities: obviously, provide meals to the aircraft used as isolation facilities.

-Infrastructures:
Maintenance buildings: Use as area's for disinfection of crews returning from aircraft, general laundry and logistics, support base for the crews working the aircraft. They are huge, so they are convenient and allow to reduce close contact.
HQ's operate as the brains of the whole operation. Organise charter flights to move patients around to facilities where capacity is available.


What's in it for the airlines? Quicker crisis resolution and they can get paid big money by the governments plus marketing impact.


Removing seats and installing walls alone would cost tens of millions of dollars, especially once you factor in that you then need to reinstall seats when the aircraft get put back into service. Maintenance or wet leasing makes way more sense than the plan you're proposing which would require complete overhaul of airports and aircraft, something that airlines and governments likely would not have the bandwidth to do quickly.


Removing seats and installing walls doesn't cost anything at all.
I have done C-checks and it took a crew of 4 less than a shift to install all seats on an A320.

About walls, you can just attach MDF panels cut to size and shape to seat tracks, it takes literally nothing and no need to order certified panels.

Wetleasing out is not an easy option when you have a pandemic and a big chunk of the global fleet is grounded.There will be little demand except for the above mentioned charters.
Maintenance: airlines don't do maintenance ahead of necessity. Just to give you an example of idiotic levels of cost-consciousness in maintenance, when an aircraft came into the hangar for a bigger A-check, I had nose tires close to (practically on) the limit and suggested to the maintenance manager to change them then that the aircraft had time and was in the hangar anyways, rather than having to do it hastily and wasting more time on the line a few days later. I was met with total disbelief. "Do you buy new tyres before you have to for your own car?".
There isn't much big maintenance that you can do in preparation of return to service, time starts ticking again every time you complete a check, so it's a waste of money when you do maintenance ahead of time and don't have foresight of how long your fleet is going to be grounded.

Bureaucracy is a reality, but the end justifies the means. Governments are good at cutting their own red tape when things suit them.

You have to realise that most countries are operating hospital facilities at capacity, and don't have thousands of empty beds "just in case".
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:27 am, edited 6 times in total.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:15 am

Israel has refused entry to non-Israeli pax on KE957. The pax were sent back to ICN after two South Koreans in Israel were found to have coronavirus. The pax who were due to return on KE958 will be repatriated on charter flights.

Image

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/South ... ars-618419
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1207
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:37 am

I'm wondering out loud: will the outbreak in Japan result in suspension of the B787 production?
After the suspension of the production of the B737 MAX, could we see Boeing's only remaining high volume line get shut down too?

How about the B777X? Japan has a major role in that program as well.

Could Boeing end up in a situation where they will be delivering no passenger aircraft at all?

Covid19, bliss or curse for Boeing?
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 996
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:32 am

DL198 ICN-SEA on 2/18/2020 was noticeably staffed with more Asian American cabin crew than my normal experience of the 2 to maybe 3 Korean speakers onboard. I was able to confirm at least one Japanese speaker, two Chinese speakers, and at least four Korean speakers onboard the A330neo. My requests spoken onboard in Korean with the non-Korean speakers were met with confusion or replies in English stating that Chinese and Japanese were also spoken onboard. I felt bad for the assumptions, but it was a very clear reminder of how the Coronavirus and the cancellation and service reductions of flights to Asia have impacted crew scheduling. In-flight service by all of the cabin crew were delightful and friendly and it was such a pleasure to fly with DELTA. The flight was nearly full but one would never notice that because there were plenty of staff present throughout the 10 hour flight.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9621
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:36 am

I do wonder how many of the routes being cancelled will not re open.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:00 pm

I bet the use of General Aviation (mainly fractional jet) use is seeing some amazing growth right now. I recall talking to our chartering broker during the year we had numerous hurricanes in FL and the Gulf coast. Rich people don't have to fly commercial. It will only get more popular if/when additional cases appear in North America.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    User avatar
    lightsaber
    Moderator
    Posts: 19727
    Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:21 pm

    AirAfreak wrote:
    DL198 ICN-SEA on 2/18/2020 was noticeably staffed with more Asian American cabin crew than my normal experience of the 2 to maybe 3 Korean speakers onboard. I was able to confirm at least one Japanese speaker, two Chinese speakers, and at least four Korean speakers onboard the A330neo. My requests spoken onboard in Korean with the non-Korean speakers were met with confusion or replies in English stating that Chinese and Japanese were also spoken onboard. I felt bad for the assumptions, but it was a very clear reminder of how the Coronavirus and the cancellation and service reductions of flights to Asia have impacted crew scheduling. In-flight service by all of the cabin crew were delightful and friendly and it was such a pleasure to fly with DELTA. The flight was nearly full but one would never notice that because there were plenty of staff present throughout the 10 hour flight.

    A very interesting experience. It shows the staffing impacts.

    As someone on the vendor side, the doom is coming.

    Lightsaber
    IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
     
    1989worstyear
    Posts: 887
    Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:42 pm

    lightsaber wrote:
    AirAfreak wrote:
    DL198 ICN-SEA on 2/18/2020 was noticeably staffed with more Asian American cabin crew than my normal experience of the 2 to maybe 3 Korean speakers onboard. I was able to confirm at least one Japanese speaker, two Chinese speakers, and at least four Korean speakers onboard the A330neo. My requests spoken onboard in Korean with the non-Korean speakers were met with confusion or replies in English stating that Chinese and Japanese were also spoken onboard. I felt bad for the assumptions, but it was a very clear reminder of how the Coronavirus and the cancellation and service reductions of flights to Asia have impacted crew scheduling. In-flight service by all of the cabin crew were delightful and friendly and it was such a pleasure to fly with DELTA. The flight was nearly full but one would never notice that because there were plenty of staff present throughout the 10 hour flight.

    A very interesting experience. It shows the staffing impacts.

    As someone on the vendor side, the doom is coming.

    Lightsaber


    Yep - it's time for us to start looking for new jobs. Now with this plague attacking Italy TATL traffic will disappear.

    Thanks again China! I hope the pangolin meat was delicious!
    Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
     
    YULACYYZ
    Posts: 49
    Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:00 pm

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:14 pm

    Air Canada has confirmed that a passenger aboard one of its flights from Montreal to Vancouver on Valentine's Day has tested positive for the novel coronavirus, COVID-19.

    As per CBC.ca

    if this is spreading in North America, I think it's fair to say that TATL will also be affected
     
    Kilopond
    Posts: 559
    Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:54 pm

    Not totally off-topic but very closely related: Austria has halted cross-border railway traffic with Italy.

    https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-austr ... a-52493063
     
    ZazuPIT
    Posts: 121
    Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:12 am

    bennett123 wrote:
    I do wonder how many of the routes being cancelled will not re open.


    I would say it's going to be a long time for the second tier cities in China (mainly served by Chinese carriers) see resumptions of service to N. America and Europe.
     
    User avatar
    zeke
    Posts: 14960
    Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

    Re: Corona Virus outbreak - Aviation related News and Discussion Thread

    Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:31 am

    Looking at the soft forward bookings and charter requests/cancellations for July to Tokyo, there seems to be a real possibility that the olympics will not go ahead.

    That should have brought a major uptick in air travel to the area.
    Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: 8herveg, Alfonsillo, Baidu [Spider], bennett123, Coma993, COSPN, cyx323, Eurowingsa320, GLondon, GloomyDe, Google Adsense [Bot], Haemoglobin, jhdk, n757kw, NZ6, olle, Speedbird96, The777Man, Ursula21, Virtual737, ZK-NBT and 460 guests

    Popular Searches On Airliners.net

    Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

    Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

    Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

    Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

    Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

    Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

    Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

    Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

    Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

    Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

    Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

    Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

    Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

    Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

    Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos