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ALTF4
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:45 am

Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...


On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.


My employer's policy is business class is allowed on international flights over 4 hours. If it's Domestic First style, I cannot book up front. Business, I can book up front.

Sorry, but "the majority of people" view isn't always the only answer. As proven by the fact that the majority of people on any flight are in back, due to ratio of seats.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:58 am

EarlyLateORD wrote:
To add to my original comment regarding cargo. Because Ecuador doesn't have a free trade agreement with the US (and Colombia does) a large percentage of Ecuador's export cargo goes to BOG/MDE first.


Sorry to say, but this is not true - even if Cargo would go via colombia, the importer would pay based on the country of origen
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Avianca
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:00 am

RCS763AV wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


Cargo can make a flight break even more easily. Hence why DL has used the 777 and 764 to LIM for years. They have a sweet contract to carry asparagus which allowed them to operate very large widebodies profitably.

Also, no one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand. BOG has come to have premium demand, which was scarce until the end of the 2000s. It's never going to be to London or Tokyo or even Sao Paulo, but it is a growing market and airlines have gradually increased their premium offer.

Where is AV lie-flat the cheapest option from South America to Europe? Please let me know! I haven't flown AV to Europe for years because they consistently charge much higher fares ex-Colombia than IB, UX or KL. Only LH is equally as expensive and AF charge whatever they want because of their monopoly on BOG-CDG, which has resulted in a load factor of 90%+ which has been consistent for the past 10 years. Fortunatley, AV might be launching the route soon and that might lower the prices for those who wich to fly non-stop to Paris.

Now, of course if you try to buy AV going XXX-BOG-Europe, it's going to be cheaper than the non-stop options. Same happens when I try to buy AF BOG-CDG-MAD.


Well Avianca as well Lufthansa are often cheap ex Bog to Europe - have paid as less as 1700 usd in Business
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Judge1310
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:18 am

Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...


On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.


^^ exactly this. One of the IAH flights operates with lie-flats on the 752 with occasional upgauges when necessary.
 
Judge1310
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:55 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:30 am

AaronPGH wrote:
Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:

On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.



EWR-BOG is a 6-hour flight. This is the route I am talking about. It should have a better aircraft on it than a 737-700 with no AVOD.


"... a better aircraft"...? How about right-sized lift for the demand?
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:39 am

AaronPGH wrote:
Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:

On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.



EWR-BOG is a 6-hour flight. This is the route I am talking about. It should have a better aircraft on it than a 737-700 with no AVOD.

Delta flies a non flatbed 757 on jfk-bog. Business class: 35-37” legroom with a TV at your seat with satellite Wifi that has streaming options. I figured they must be flying a lie flat on the route with the way United was being whined about, but Delta isn’t. It’s a domestic 757.
United flies a 737-700 with 37-38” legroom on Newark-Bogota in business class and free Satellite tv at your seat and satellite WiFi that has streaming options.
Both sound miserable overnight but why whine about United on Newark-Bogota? It’s definitely a better product than Delta on the route.
Take Avianca if you want an overnight on a wide body.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5307
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:02 pm

Given the fare level for lie flat from avianca on JFK bog, I don't think any us carriers should be using lie flat seats on this route.

Interesting enough, the economy class fares on JFK bog still looks quite high compared to some of the surrounding markets.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:14 pm

ALTF4 wrote:
My employer's policy is business class is allowed on international flights over 4 hours. If it's Domestic First style, I cannot book up front. Business, I can book up front.


Can you add more clarity?

As an example, in case where DL was flying an international configured aircraft with lie flat seats part of the year and a standard/domestic aircraft with US domestic F seats the other part of the year, you were allowed to fly J part of the year and had to fly Y the other part of the year?

Delta markets short haul international as “business” but not with the Delta One standard of service. (Or at least the did in the past.) So your company books based on seat style vs fare code?
 
ALTF4
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:01 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:06 pm

questions wrote:
ALTF4 wrote:
My employer's policy is business class is allowed on international flights over 4 hours. If it's Domestic First style, I cannot book up front. Business, I can book up front.


Can you add more clarity?

As an example, in case where DL was flying an international configured aircraft with lie flat seats part of the year and a standard/domestic aircraft with US domestic F seats the other part of the year, you were allowed to fly J part of the year and had to fly Y the other part of the year?

Delta markets short haul international as “business” but not with the Delta One standard of service. (Or at least the did in the past.) So your company books based on seat style vs fare code?


The policy is based on fare code. However, when I have flown ATL-MEX before, front of the cabin on a 73G is sold as F not J, so I cannot book up front - even thought it is longer than 4 hours - because I am only allowed to book J or lower. ATL-BOG even on a 767-300ER has been F not J (eligible for "domestic" First upgrades as a medallion member). Adding Delta One service will put it to J, I believe - so then I can book it - even though J is more expensive than F.

This is where my Company's policy and the Delta cabins just never make much sense.
The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
 
RCS763AV
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:22 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:43 am

tphuang wrote:
RCS763AV wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


Cargo can make a flight break even more easily. Hence why DL has used the 777 and 764 to LIM for years. They have a sweet contract to carry asparagus which allowed them to operate very large widebodies profitably.

Also, no one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand. BOG has come to have premium demand, which was scarce until the end of the 2000s. It's never going to be to London or Tokyo or even Sao Paulo, but it is a growing market and airlines have gradually increased their premium offer.

Where is AV lie-flat the cheapest option from South America to Europe? Please let me know! I haven't flown AV to Europe for years because they consistently charge much higher fares ex-Colombia than IB, UX or KL. Only LH is equally as expensive and AF charge whatever they want because of their monopoly on BOG-CDG, which has resulted in a load factor of 90%+ which has been consistent for the past 10 years. Fortunatley, AV might be launching the route soon and that might lower the prices for those who wich to fly non-stop to Paris.

Now, of course if you try to buy AV going XXX-BOG-Europe, it's going to be cheaper than the non-stop options. Same happens when I try to buy AF BOG-CDG-MAD.


From another poster
Additionally, BOG is rather premium heavy from USA. UA operates a 757 with lie flats on their red eye. So the Delta One product helps them compete and can be monetized even for a relatively short route.

Please do read other people's posts before saying "not one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand".

I said AV always cheapest option to South America and Europe. Please actually read carefully before replying. go search up NYC to EZE/GRU/GIG or NYC to MAD/BCN a couple of month ahead and see where AV is pricing these things at.

Sure, it totally makes sense that JFK-BOG-MAD should be cheaper than JFK-LHR-MAD.

JFK-BOG N/S on AV A330 is pricing under $1200 in J. Sure, there is a lot of premium demand.

As for Cargo, if it was such an important factor, 767 should've been on this route a lot earlier than now.


Ok first of all lets take the attidue two notches off. Don't "please do" me, its petty and unnecessary.

First, regarding no-one is saying BOG has a lot of premium demand, specially that other post, I stand by my statement. BOG has premium demand to some specific markets, specially those related to the oil industry. Hence, BOG-IAH is "rather premium heavy". BOG is not premium heavy to the entire US, that is for sure. But I still don't agree that the post meant BOG has a lot of premium demand.

Second, I'm sorry I misread and thought you were talking about flying AV form South America to Europe. I guess I just assumed since it makes no sense to fly from the US to Europe via a South American country, which is probably why AV is the cheapest option at times.

Lastly, as an example of why AV is so cheap right now form the US, in in less than three years, the BOG JFK route has gone from 2 daily flights and 40 business seats (28 on the 787 and 12 on the A319), to 4 daily flights and 110 daily business seats (30 on the A330-300 x 2, 28 on the 787 and 22 on the DL 757). AV has been basically doubling business class capacity throughout its entire system ex-BOG since the past couple of years, and combined with the latin american economy growing feebly, no wonder yields are a bit depressed right now. However, the Colombian economy is one of the few ones that is actually growing at over 3% YoY in the entire region, which is also probably why DL decided to improve their product on BOG-ATL.

Anyhow, I don't understand the hate when a station gets upgraded by DL. I'm sure their route planning department feels very differently than you do about this upgrade.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:50 am

afcjets wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.


All 763s have Delta One.


The non ER models still have 30 first @ 37-38"
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3625
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:57 am

EarlyLateORD wrote:
Cut Roses will likely fill up much of that 763 belly...With Bogota, its all about cargo!

Adam


True and adding delta One allows them to up the price on the pointy end. Should boost margin vs the old domestic first seats.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10699
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:03 pm

rbavfan wrote:
afcjets wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.


All 763s have Delta One.


The non ER models still have 30 first @ 37-38"

The last one of those was retired 6 months ago. All Delta 763s are the ER model with Delta One now.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5307
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:20 pm

RCS763AV wrote:
Ok first of all lets take the attidue two notches off. Don't "please do" me, its petty and unnecessary.

First, regarding no-one is saying BOG has a lot of premium demand, specially that other post, I stand by my statement. BOG has premium demand to some specific markets, specially those related to the oil industry. Hence, BOG-IAH is "rather premium heavy". BOG is not premium heavy to the entire US, that is for sure. But I still don't agree that the post meant BOG has a lot of premium demand.

Second, I'm sorry I misread and thought you were talking about flying AV form South America to Europe. I guess I just assumed since it makes no sense to fly from the US to Europe via a South American country, which is probably why AV is the cheapest option at times.

Lastly, as an example of why AV is so cheap right now form the US, in in less than three years, the BOG JFK route has gone from 2 daily flights and 40 business seats (28 on the 787 and 12 on the A319), to 4 daily flights and 110 daily business seats (30 on the A330-300 x 2, 28 on the 787 and 22 on the DL 757). AV has been basically doubling business class capacity throughout its entire system ex-BOG since the past couple of years, and combined with the latin american economy growing feebly, no wonder yields are a bit depressed right now. However, the Colombian economy is one of the few ones that is actually growing at over 3% YoY in the entire region, which is also probably why DL decided to improve their product on BOG-ATL.

Anyhow, I don't understand the hate when a station gets upgraded by DL. I'm sure their route planning department feels very differently than you do about this upgrade.

My comments had nothing to do with DL changes, but with regard to cargo + premium demand part. Since I plan to fly to south america soon, I will most likely take advantage of AV's low fares.

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