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Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:38 pm
by 720B
Delta One will replace First Class beginning Feb. 4 on the flight departing Atlanta and on Feb. 5 on the flight departing Bogota. Delta currently operates daily service between Atlanta and Bogota using a 767-300ER aircraft during part of the year, and will now fly the route using this widebody aircraft year-round.


https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... route.html

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:49 pm
by Nicoeddf
Wow, that's exciting. Thanks for sharing

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:42 pm
by jfk777
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:57 pm
by afcjets
jfk777 wrote:
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.


All 763s have Delta One.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:05 pm
by Cubsrule
jfk777 wrote:
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.


I expect it has more to do with having some spare 763 time that lines up with when this flight operates than anything with BOG specifically.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:18 pm
by TYWoolman
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:05 am
by jetlanta
TYWoolman wrote:
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.


Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:20 am
by questions
720B wrote:
Delta One will replace First Class beginning Feb. 4 on the flight departing Atlanta and on Feb. 5 on the flight departing Bogota. Delta currently operates daily service between Atlanta and Bogota using a 767-300ER aircraft during part of the year, and will now fly the route using this widebody aircraft year-round.


https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... route.html


What aircraft does DL use during the non-767-300ER part of the year?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:24 am
by questions
jetlanta wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.


Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.


ATL + MIA to Latin America will start to take off as the DL/LA JV engages in growth.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:39 am
by 777Mech
questions wrote:
720B wrote:
Delta One will replace First Class beginning Feb. 4 on the flight departing Atlanta and on Feb. 5 on the flight departing Bogota. Delta currently operates daily service between Atlanta and Bogota using a 767-300ER aircraft during part of the year, and will now fly the route using this widebody aircraft year-round.


https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... route.html


What aircraft does DL use during the non-767-300ER part of the year?


They did use the 199 seat 757, now it's a 76W year round.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:47 am
by Antarius
jetlanta wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.


Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.


I agree that overall we will see more, but I do not agree that this is an example of it. LATAM is pretty irrelevant at BOG.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:44 am
by AaronPGH
I wish UA would get their shit together on their BOG routes like this. Sigh.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:35 am
by jetlanta
Antarius wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.


Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.


I agree that overall we will see more, but I do not agree that this is an example of it. LATAM is pretty irrelevant at BOG.


That’s not true at all. LATAM has a significant and growing presence at BOG.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:52 am
by sargester
There goes deltas not great margins already on this route out the winder, sigh... just shove them on an A321 and tow up a 319 for an extra flight...

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:09 am
by EarlyLateORD
Cut Roses will likely fill up much of that 763 belly...With Bogota, its all about cargo!

Adam

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:13 am
by MIflyer12
sargester wrote:
There goes deltas not great margins already on this route out the winder, sigh... just shove them on an A321 and tow up a 319 for an extra flight...


That's the AA way - 3x A319 BOG-MIA tomorrow. Remind us, though, which among AA and DL has the better margins and TRASM?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:26 am
by wrldtvlr
MIflyer12 wrote:
sargester wrote:
There goes deltas not great margins already on this route out the winder, sigh... just shove them on an A321 and tow up a 319 for an extra flight...


That's the AA way - 3x A319 BOG-MIA tomorrow. Remind us, though, which among AA and DL has the better margins and TRASM?

Not to mention, superior product and overall customer experience.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:30 am
by TYWoolman
Antarius wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think we will see more of this as Atlanta becomes more relevant for South American travel with the LATAM deal.


Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.


I agree that overall we will see more, but I do not agree that this is an example of it. LATAM is pretty irrelevant at BOG.


Perhaps, but the partnership itself should result in increased demand for connections through Atlanta from all points just by the very nature of LATAM's overall channel of sales and marketing relevance, prompting Delta to up its game on this and other routes. In addition, LATAM's relative weakness in Bogota is all the more reason for Delta to do this.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:37 am
by LAX772LR
EarlyLateORD wrote:
Cut Roses will likely fill up much of that 763 belly...With Bogota, its all about cargo!

While I don't know if it's still the same now, a while back, DL did huge business carrying enormous amounts of asparagus from Peru to the U.S. again. They even put 777s on the route back then.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:38 am
by Okcflyer
EarlyLateORD wrote:
Cut Roses will likely fill up much of that 763 belly...With Bogota, its all about cargo!

Adam


Ding Ding ... we have a winner. BOG if one of the few airports in the world with consistent high value cargo demand. The extra cargo revenue (probably got a contract) will easily pay for the margin cost difference and then some profit on top.

Additionally, BOG is rather premium heavy from USA. UA operates a 757 with lie flats on their red eye. So the Delta One product helps them compete and can be monetized even for a relatively short route.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:02 am
by CURQ400
jetlanta wrote:
Antarius wrote:
jetlanta wrote:

Yep...this is a concrete result of the LATAM partnership.


I agree that overall we will see more, but I do not agree that this is an example of it. LATAM is pretty irrelevant at BOG.


That’s not true at all. LATAM has a significant and growing presence at BOG.


You might want to check that again. LATAM only flies to LIM, SCL and GRU, outside of a handful of domestic destinations. They even dropped MIA.

Presence? Yes.
Significant? Nah.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:53 am
by RCS763AV
CURQ400 wrote:
jetlanta wrote:
Antarius wrote:

I agree that overall we will see more, but I do not agree that this is an example of it. LATAM is pretty irrelevant at BOG.


That’s not true at all. LATAM has a significant and growing presence at BOG.


You might want to check that again. LATAM only flies to LIM, SCL and GRU, outside of a handful of domestic destinations. They even dropped MIA.

Presence? Yes.
Significant? Nah.


LATAM is still the second largest domestic carrier in Colombia, with a market share close to 25%. Although I agree they have nothing close to a hub like they do in GRU or LIM or a dominant operation like they do in SCL, BOG is still a significant base, I would dare say a little bit less relevant than EZE/AEP and more than UIO in the LATAM system. My opinion comes from LATAM's published revenue numbers.

As said by other posters above, this comes in part because DL will able to increase sales through LATAM sales channels as a result of the partnership and is increasing service to key destinations before the implementation. However, it also comes from an overall increase in demand from BOG as the Colombian economy has kept growing, consistently outpacing the region. After 20 years of a daily 757 on BOG-ATL DL is finally upgauging and brought BOG-JFK back just last year.

Kudos to DL! I had the pleasure of flying with them on the SFO-ATL-BOG route in May, and I must say the product was impeccable on both the 753 and the 752 I got for each leg.

Should we expect service increases on ATL-CTG or the return of ATL-MDE in the coming future?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:19 pm
by onwFan
My guess is that LATAM will do most of the heavylifting from SCL, LIM and GRU. And leave DL to take care of most of the international flying from BOG, UIO/GYE and EZE. ATL-GYE and JFK-EZE should be launching soon on DL as well? Also, we can watch out for when one day suddenly the AR-DL partnership dies and AR becomes yet another zombie in SkyTeam till their contract ends...

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:42 pm
by evanb
Okcflyer wrote:
EarlyLateORD wrote:
Cut Roses will likely fill up much of that 763 belly...With Bogota, its all about cargo!


Ding Ding ... we have a winner. BOG if one of the few airports in the world with consistent high value cargo demand. The extra cargo revenue (probably got a contract) will easily pay for the margin cost difference and then some profit on top.


And if that is the case, then the B76W makes perfect sense. At >8,000ft AMSL, I suspect that narrowbodies would struggle to lift cargo on a 5 hour sector from BOG.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:58 pm
by tphuang
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:15 pm
by DylanHarvey
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?

It’s not mystical by any stretch, you’re looking at the percentages, look at the revenue in dollars, heavy cargo isn’t the reason a flight is flown, but it can be the break even. Tell this to airlines that carry 25t of cargo.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:38 pm
by RCS763AV
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


Cargo can make a flight break even more easily. Hence why DL has used the 777 and 764 to LIM for years. They have a sweet contract to carry asparagus which allowed them to operate very large widebodies profitably.

Also, no one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand. BOG has come to have premium demand, which was scarce until the end of the 2000s. It's never going to be to London or Tokyo or even Sao Paulo, but it is a growing market and airlines have gradually increased their premium offer.

Where is AV lie-flat the cheapest option from South America to Europe? Please let me know! I haven't flown AV to Europe for years because they consistently charge much higher fares ex-Colombia than IB, UX or KL. Only LH is equally as expensive and AF charge whatever they want because of their monopoly on BOG-CDG, which has resulted in a load factor of 90%+ which has been consistent for the past 10 years. Fortunatley, AV might be launching the route soon and that might lower the prices for those who wich to fly non-stop to Paris.

Now, of course if you try to buy AV going XXX-BOG-Europe, it's going to be cheaper than the non-stop options. Same happens when I try to buy AF BOG-CDG-MAD.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:20 pm
by questions
Is the Delta One service altered on this route? If so, how?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:25 pm
by tphuang
RCS763AV wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


Cargo can make a flight break even more easily. Hence why DL has used the 777 and 764 to LIM for years. They have a sweet contract to carry asparagus which allowed them to operate very large widebodies profitably.

Also, no one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand. BOG has come to have premium demand, which was scarce until the end of the 2000s. It's never going to be to London or Tokyo or even Sao Paulo, but it is a growing market and airlines have gradually increased their premium offer.

Where is AV lie-flat the cheapest option from South America to Europe? Please let me know! I haven't flown AV to Europe for years because they consistently charge much higher fares ex-Colombia than IB, UX or KL. Only LH is equally as expensive and AF charge whatever they want because of their monopoly on BOG-CDG, which has resulted in a load factor of 90%+ which has been consistent for the past 10 years. Fortunatley, AV might be launching the route soon and that might lower the prices for those who wich to fly non-stop to Paris.

Now, of course if you try to buy AV going XXX-BOG-Europe, it's going to be cheaper than the non-stop options. Same happens when I try to buy AF BOG-CDG-MAD.


From another poster
Additionally, BOG is rather premium heavy from USA. UA operates a 757 with lie flats on their red eye. So the Delta One product helps them compete and can be monetized even for a relatively short route.

Please do read other people's posts before saying "not one has said BOG has a lot of premium demand".

I said AV always cheapest option to South America and Europe. Please actually read carefully before replying. go search up NYC to EZE/GRU/GIG or NYC to MAD/BCN a couple of month ahead and see where AV is pricing these things at.

Sure, it totally makes sense that JFK-BOG-MAD should be cheaper than JFK-LHR-MAD.

JFK-BOG N/S on AV A330 is pricing under $1200 in J. Sure, there is a lot of premium demand.

As for Cargo, if it was such an important factor, 767 should've been on this route a lot earlier than now.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:38 pm
by N649DL
Not entirely surprising. Wasn't ATL-LIM upgraded to Delta One using a 764 or A330 mainly for cargo over the last few years?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:53 pm
by 777Mech
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


DL made over $752 million in cargo revenue last year. That's significant.

And an FYI, the previous aircraft on this route, the 757, can carry cargo as well and it was consistently bulked out with perishables, which commands a premium. BOG, LIM and SCL are some of the most profitable cargo stations in the system.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:01 pm
by tphuang
777Mech wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here? If that's the case, why is AV struggling despite running mostly widebodies to BOG.

Oh and the kicker is how BOG has a lot of premium demand. Is that why I keep seeing AV lie flat as always cheapest option to South America and Europe?


DL made over $752 million in cargo revenue last year. That's significant.

And an FYI, the previous aircraft on this route, the 757, can carry cargo as well and it was consistently bulked out with perishables, which commands a premium. BOG, LIM and SCL are some of the most profitable cargo stations in the system.


That all sounds good until you divide that by DL's total revenue. I'm sure cargo helps these routes, but in the end, aircraft deployment decisions have to be justified by passenger yield.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:18 pm
by FSDan
tphuang wrote:
Yes, the mystical cargo revenue I keep reading about that's going to make every flight profitable. If that was the case, why has it taken DL this long to switch to a 767 here?


Perhaps without the LATAM partnership DL felt the extra 27 seats would have diluted fares, but now they expect a slight bump in demand due to increased South America point of sale?

Also (and perhaps more significantly than the above), DL's widebody fleet has been stretched very thin the last few years. This year there's finally a little wiggle room in the 763 fleet as the 339s and a few additional 359s are arriving, with only a few 763 retirements having happened in the last year. DL apparently feels BOG is the next in line for an upgauge, and that the 763 is better allocated to this route than to an additional TATL flight.

Airlines optimize aircraft allocation all the time, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should have happened long ago. At some point multiple factors combine to tip the scale on certain routes.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:32 pm
by usdcaguy
You have to wonder if D1 will allow DL to raise fares to BOG, since, after all, passengers will now be getting the full business class treatment. It used to be they charged more for transcontinental flights in D1 than domestic first, so you have to wonder if introducing D1 is also a revenue opportunity for them.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:13 pm
by EarlyLateORD
To add to my original comment regarding cargo. Because Ecuador doesn't have a free trade agreement with the US (and Colombia does) a large percentage of Ecuador's export cargo goes to BOG/MDE first.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:45 pm
by Judge1310
AaronPGH wrote:
I wish UA would get their shit together on their BOG routes like this. Sigh.


So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:10 pm
by 777Mech
EarlyLateORD wrote:
To add to my original comment regarding cargo. Because Ecuador doesn't have a free trade agreement with the US (and Colombia does) a large percentage of Ecuador's export cargo goes to BOG/MDE first.


Bingo.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:15 pm
by AaronPGH
Judge1310 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
I wish UA would get their shit together on their BOG routes like this. Sigh.


So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...


On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:00 am
by JAMBOJET
What exactly is Delta doing here?
There's no frequency advantage to be had from doing this. They'll still be at a frequency disadvantage to AA via Miami/dfw and UA/AV via JFK/EWR or IAH. They're still only once daily from JFK, once daily from ATL with a flat-bed product specifically being flown during the day both ways.

It's a widebody in the middle of the summer that could be flying to pretty much ANYWHERE in Europe making more money from any of their hubs. And they're landing this 763 in BOG at 6pm, leaving it overnight, and not back to ATL until 3pm (9am takeoff) the next day? A lie-flat widebody is gone an entire day for ~10 hours max of flying? They could literally fly this route twice easily with decent times (including an overnight one way) with this exact plane taking off about an hour or two earlier from ATL.
And all to fly to a city that even LATAM has given up on for North America?
This isn't a critique of Delta, it just seems really weird to leave a lie-flat widebody in Bogota for 15 hours overnight when you have a network like Delta's network. I just don't think this has anything to do with building LATAM or even cargo, but rather just an open plane that didn't have a better use this late in the game.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:49 am
by 777Mech
JAMBOJET wrote:
What exactly is Delta doing here?
There's no frequency advantage to be had from doing this. They'll still be at a frequency disadvantage to AA via Miami/dfw and UA/AV via JFK/EWR or IAH. They're still only once daily from JFK, once daily from ATL with a flat-bed product specifically being flown during the day both ways.

It's a widebody in the middle of the summer that could be flying to pretty much ANYWHERE in Europe making more money from any of their hubs. And they're landing this 763 in BOG at 6pm, leaving it overnight, and not back to ATL until 3pm (9am takeoff) the next day? A lie-flat widebody is gone an entire day for ~10 hours max of flying? They could literally fly this route twice easily with decent times (including an overnight one way) with this exact plane taking off about an hour or two earlier from ATL.
And all to fly to a city that even LATAM has given up on for North America?
This isn't a critique of Delta, it just seems really weird to leave a lie-flat widebody in Bogota for 15 hours overnight when you have a network like Delta's network. I just don't think this has anything to do with building LATAM or even cargo, but rather just an open plane that didn't have a better use this late in the game.


You must be up in arms over how airlines schedule their South American trips. Check out the ground time in GIG, GRU, SCL,LIM etc and let us know.

You're comparing DL to AA, but how's it working out for AA? DL isn't the most profitable airline in the world for nothing. They've done their homework on this route and many others.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:51 am
by JAMBOJET
777Mech wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
What exactly is Delta doing here?
There's no frequency advantage to be had from doing this. They'll still be at a frequency disadvantage to AA via Miami/dfw and UA/AV via JFK/EWR or IAH. They're still only once daily from JFK, once daily from ATL with a flat-bed product specifically being flown during the day both ways.

It's a widebody in the middle of the summer that could be flying to pretty much ANYWHERE in Europe making more money from any of their hubs. And they're landing this 763 in BOG at 6pm, leaving it overnight, and not back to ATL until 3pm (9am takeoff) the next day? A lie-flat widebody is gone an entire day for ~10 hours max of flying? They could literally fly this route twice easily with decent times (including an overnight one way) with this exact plane taking off about an hour or two earlier from ATL.
And all to fly to a city that even LATAM has given up on for North America?
This isn't a critique of Delta, it just seems really weird to leave a lie-flat widebody in Bogota for 15 hours overnight when you have a network like Delta's network. I just don't think this has anything to do with building LATAM or even cargo, but rather just an open plane that didn't have a better use this late in the game.


You must be up in arms over how airlines schedule their South American trips. Check out the ground time in GIG, GRU, SCL,LIM etc and let us know.

You're comparing DL to AA, but how's it working out for AA? DL isn't the most profitable airline in the world for nothing. They've done their homework on this route and many others.

It’s not a critique. It’s a curiosity.
I was comparing delta to every other carrier flying to Bogota from North America, not AA.
Those planes you’re talking about fly overnight back and forth from GRU. This one is sitting in Bogota overnight and the beds are being used/flown in the middle of the day. The exact opposite of your analogy with the other cities.

I do love the new fan defense: “every bit of Delta’s current profitability has to do with this ONE decision being discussed in this thread. Let’s end discussion because of that”

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:56 am
by ALTF4
afcjets wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Seems like overkill for a 4 hour flight, if Delta is getting lots of international connections from BOG than that is the answer. BOG has a decent European schedule from AV and European airlines.


All 763s have Delta One.


Delta One isn't just the seating, it's the service. I'm sure they ran lie-flat seating on the 767-300ER (as all have lie-flat I believe), but now they are just upping the cabin service to the Delta One standard.

As much as I appreciate Delta, it does seem sort of funny. Meal service alone can take two hours. Leaves hardly any time for a snooze.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:11 am
by 720B

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:45 am
by hkcanadaexpat
JAMBOJET wrote:
777Mech wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
What exactly is Delta doing here?
There's no frequency advantage to be had from doing this. They'll still be at a frequency disadvantage to AA via Miami/dfw and UA/AV via JFK/EWR or IAH. They're still only once daily from JFK, once daily from ATL with a flat-bed product specifically being flown during the day both ways.

It's a widebody in the middle of the summer that could be flying to pretty much ANYWHERE in Europe making more money from any of their hubs. And they're landing this 763 in BOG at 6pm, leaving it overnight, and not back to ATL until 3pm (9am takeoff) the next day? A lie-flat widebody is gone an entire day for ~10 hours max of flying? They could literally fly this route twice easily with decent times (including an overnight one way) with this exact plane taking off about an hour or two earlier from ATL.
And all to fly to a city that even LATAM has given up on for North America?
This isn't a critique of Delta, it just seems really weird to leave a lie-flat widebody in Bogota for 15 hours overnight when you have a network like Delta's network. I just don't think this has anything to do with building LATAM or even cargo, but rather just an open plane that didn't have a better use this late in the game.


You must be up in arms over how airlines schedule their South American trips. Check out the ground time in GIG, GRU, SCL,LIM etc and let us know.

You're comparing DL to AA, but how's it working out for AA? DL isn't the most profitable airline in the world for nothing. They've done their homework on this route and many others.

It’s not a critique. It’s a curiosity.
I was comparing delta to every other carrier flying to Bogota from North America, not AA.
Those planes you’re talking about fly overnight back and forth from GRU. This one is sitting in Bogota overnight and the beds are being used/flown in the middle of the day. The exact opposite of your analogy with the other cities.

I do love the new fan defense: “every bit of Delta’s current profitability has to do with this ONE decision being discussed in this thread. Let’s end discussion because of that”

Why don't you look at it in another way. ATL-BOG on the 763 for S20 was added in the system just a few days ago.
The S20 schedule has generally been out for many months now with any new/expanded TPAC and TATL routes announced at that time.
DL has been having issues with the delivery of new widebodies due to supplier issues.
Due to those issues, DL was holding back a bit more slack than usual in its widebody allocation for S20 compared to previous summers in case the scheduled deliveries didn't happen.
As we get closer to S20, DL is getting a better idea on timing of new widebody deliveries and as such can start allocating some of that extra slack to routes.
It's too late to start/add new TATL/TPAC routes for S20, so DL allocates it to where it makes most sense.
BOG seemed to fit all dimensions at play (ie. widebody type available, hub available, times of day available for rotation, route needs, cargo, etc...)

You're rationale of whether or not this frame would be better used on a TATL turn sure has legs but the timing isn't such.
This frame was not "available" for allocation at the time DL put the pin in its S20 TATL schedule.
This frame became "available" recently and now its a question of where to use it to its best benefit given the factors presented to it.
If it made more sense to upgrade a 75W TATL route, they would have done it.
If it made more sense to put it on a JFK-SFO rotation, they would have done it.
They did the math, and BOG was the answer.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:46 am
by Mightyflyer86
AaronPGH wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
I wish UA would get their shit together on their BOG routes like this. Sigh.


So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...


On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:49 am
by JAMBOJET
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
777Mech wrote:

You must be up in arms over how airlines schedule their South American trips. Check out the ground time in GIG, GRU, SCL,LIM etc and let us know.

You're comparing DL to AA, but how's it working out for AA? DL isn't the most profitable airline in the world for nothing. They've done their homework on this route and many others.

It’s not a critique. It’s a curiosity.
I was comparing delta to every other carrier flying to Bogota from North America, not AA.
Those planes you’re talking about fly overnight back and forth from GRU. This one is sitting in Bogota overnight and the beds are being used/flown in the middle of the day. The exact opposite of your analogy with the other cities.

I do love the new fan defense: “every bit of Delta’s current profitability has to do with this ONE decision being discussed in this thread. Let’s end discussion because of that”

Why don't you look at it in another way. ATL-BOG on the 763 for S20 was added in the system just a few days ago.
The S20 schedule has generally been out for many months now with any new/expanded TPAC and TATL routes announced at that time.
DL has been having issues with the delivery of new widebodies due to supplier issues.
Due to those issues, DL was holding back a bit more slack than usual in its widebody allocation for S20 compared to previous summers in case the scheduled deliveries didn't happen.
As we get closer to S20, DL is getting a better idea on timing of new widebody deliveries and as such can start allocating some of that extra slack to routes.
It's too late to start/add new TATL/TPAC routes for S20, so DL allocates it to where it makes most sense.
BOG seemed to fit all dimensions at play (ie. widebody type available, hub available, times of day available for rotation, route needs, cargo, etc...)

You're rationale of whether or not this frame would be better used on a TATL turn sure has legs but the timing isn't such.
This frame was not "available" for allocation at the time DL put the pin in its S20 TATL schedule.
This frame became "available" recently and now its a question of where to use it to its best benefit given the factors presented to it.
If it made more sense to upgrade a 75W TATL route, they would have done it.
If it made more sense to put it on a JFK-SFO rotation, they would have done it.
They did the math, and BOG was the answer.

Great thoughts and thanks for the response. Gets at what my curiosity was.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:52 am
by phxtristar
Could this upgage be part of the Latam Alliance?

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:57 am
by jfk777
MIflyer12 wrote:
sargester wrote:
There goes deltas not great margins already on this route out the winder, sigh... just shove them on an A321 and tow up a 319 for an extra flight...


That's the AA way - 3x A319 BOG-MIA tomorrow. Remind us, though, which among AA and DL has the better margins and TRASM?


Its 3 hours from BOG to MIA, flat seats in Business Class are not important, frequency is king. This is not a route to brag about how great Delta's A350 is. AV uses A320 for most if not all their Miami to Colombia flights. Delta ONE is not a big deal on short haul.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:13 am
by AaronPGH
Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:
Judge1310 wrote:

So three daily flights to two hubs (2X IAH, 1X EWR) isn't enough for you? Okay...


On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.



EWR-BOG is a 6-hour flight. This is the route I am talking about. It should have a better aircraft on it than a 737-700 with no AVOD.

Re: Delta Air Lines Introduces Delta One on Atlanta-Bogota Route

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:24 am
by JAMBOJET
AaronPGH wrote:
Mightyflyer86 wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:

On an old domestic 737-7? No. Leaves a bit to be desired.


If you are willing to pay a premium to fly on a fancy lie flat seat on a 4 hr flight then good for you. The majority of the people who fly is price sensitive so I don’t think they care whether they are flying a “fancy” 767-300ER or an old 737-700.



EWR-BOG is a 6-hour flight. This is the route I am talking about. It should have a better aircraft on it than a 737-700 with no AVOD.

AA flies BOG-DFW on an A319 overnight. UA flies IAH-BOG on a 73G overnight.
I agree that this is a nightmare of an overnight flight.

#nothanks