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caetravlr
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:33 pm

I believe that the purple is in line with Delta's current branding direction. Take a look at the Delta Reserve Card photos that came out on the American Express website this morning.
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:03 pm

BN747DFWHNL wrote:
Stink! documentary (Netflix) may relate to this topic: father explores the prevalence of unknown chemicals in products after his kid's pajamas have a strange odor (clothing company cites proprietary information re: chemicals used in its manufacturing and dye processes). Have to wonder if a chemical in these uniforms is reacting allergically with affected FAs?


Stink Movie aside, you have hit the nail on the head. The chemical process in making these uniforms, the chemicals used to ship them, and the off gassing that comes with that can have profound and far reaching adverse effects. While American companies put their name on these, they are mostly--if at all--made here, but in other countries under less than stringent monitoring.
 
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enilria
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:09 pm

questions wrote:
AA experienced a similar issue. What’s in uniforms that causes the problems that is not in the clothes purchased in retail chains that the average Joe wears?

1) You only wear a typical outfit maybe once per week. This is 40-60 hours per week in it.
2) You only buy stuff that is comfortable to YOU.
3) If you buy something you don't like, you stop wearing it.
4) They tend to make these uniforms cheaply and out of materials that are durable and most importantly don't wrinkle. Don't wrinkle = synthetics.
 
questions
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:41 pm

enilria wrote:
questions wrote:
AA experienced a similar issue. What’s in uniforms that causes the problems that is not in the clothes purchased in retail chains that the average Joe wears?

1) You only wear a typical outfit maybe once per week. This is 40-60 hours per week in it.
2) You only buy stuff that is comfortable to YOU.
3) If you buy something you don't like, you stop wearing it.
4) They tend to make these uniforms cheaply and out of materials that are durable and most importantly don't wrinkle. Don't wrinkle = synthetics.


Thanks.

I never wear no-iron shirts because I hate the way they feel. I get the picture now.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:48 pm

enilria wrote:
questions wrote:
AA experienced a similar issue. What’s in uniforms that causes the problems that is not in the clothes purchased in retail chains that the average Joe wears?

1) You only wear a typical outfit maybe once per week. This is 40-60 hours per week in it.
2) You only buy stuff that is comfortable to YOU.
3) If you buy something you don't like, you stop wearing it.
4) They tend to make these uniforms cheaply and out of materials that are durable and most importantly don't wrinkle. Don't wrinkle = synthetics.


5) They are doused with chemicals to extend wear, fire retardant, no wrinkle (its not just the material.)
6) You work in an enclosed aluminum tube.
 
blooc350
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:16 pm

American based cabin crew are always screaming “we’re here for safety not service”. So just give them a white blouse, black skirt or pants and call it a day lol
 
alasizon
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:14 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
enilria wrote:
questions wrote:
AA experienced a similar issue. What’s in uniforms that causes the problems that is not in the clothes purchased in retail chains that the average Joe wears?

1) You only wear a typical outfit maybe once per week. This is 40-60 hours per week in it.
2) You only buy stuff that is comfortable to YOU.
3) If you buy something you don't like, you stop wearing it.
4) They tend to make these uniforms cheaply and out of materials that are durable and most importantly don't wrinkle. Don't wrinkle = synthetics.


5) They are doused with chemicals to extend wear, fire retardant, no wrinkle (its not just the material.)
6) You work in an enclosed aluminum tube.


Beyond all else, it is #5 that causes the issue from everything I've seen. This is part of the reason why AA chose to go down the road of ensuring that their new uniform is Oeko-tex certified.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:20 pm

Perhaps we can have them designed to ooze antibacterial and a light antibacterial mist!

New design should incorporate 737 FOD rough field runway blow away technology to insure a constant fresh air supply upon Far East flights!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
questions
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:25 pm

blooc350 wrote:
American based cabin crew are always screaming “we’re here for safety not service”. So just give them a white blouse, black skirt or pants and call it a day lol


What they generally say is, “We are here primarily for your safety.” This implies that anything else they do is optional and as a passenger you are lucky to receive it.

This is much more that allergic reactions to chemicals. This is about Delta missing indicators of low acceptance among the employee populations due to poor design choices.
 
questions
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:27 pm

caetravlr wrote:
I believe that the purple is in line with Delta's current branding direction. Take a look at the Delta Reserve Card photos that came out on the American Express website this morning.


https://card.americanexpress.com/d/delt ... gL2AfD_BwE
 
PI4EVR
Posts: 119
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:43 pm

Stop the silly discussion its about purple and not the DL traditional red, blah, blah, blah.
It has to be the chemical protectants and preservatives applied to the material as many have pointed out. This was a major issue at AA.
Not from the prospective the uniforms were not attractive.....quite the contrary they looked crisp and professional and most liked the new look. The allergic reactions began quickly not from liking the color palette but the material coming into contact with skin and breathing the material fibers.
My family is fairly allergy free at all ages, but we discovered an issue when our Mother had her home re-done throughout with new carpet. It had been packed in rolls wrapped in plastic and then opened and cut to size as they installed it in each room. Allergic reactions began almost immediately and many of us thought we were imagining what we were experiencing and just kept it to ourselves.
We ended up taking readings and determined there were high levels of formaldehyde used as a protectant treatment on the carpet as it was manufactured. It then was wrapped in plastic and stored so the carpet material never "aired" out until installation.
My Mother reacted so severely we had to move her out of the house for 2 months. The installing company ultimately removed all the carpet, had it cleaned and hung rooms full in a warehouse for a month to clear the accumulation of the formaldehyde. It had reactions and consequences to any of us exposed to it for any length of time and the most common irritant was itching and areas exposed directly to the carpet would form welps or "abrasion" looks to the skin surface.
This is not a cosmetic "we don't like the color purple on a red, white and blue airline" complaint. I say chemical treatment and suspicion is the fabric was made and treated in China and not processed further by the actual uniform company.
Anyone recall the issue with sheetrock made in China that formed black mold in and on walls in new built homes several years ago? Many owners had to move out of the their home and interior walls completely rebuilt to correct the situation. I'd put money that same basic issue is what the employees and those airlines are and have dealt with. It is not a group of disgruntled employees stirring the pot or seeking union representation.
I understand AA's new uniform is being distributed to employees now and to be worn effective March 1.
 
FF630
Posts: 34
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:17 pm

Khaki, Navy blue or bankers gray with a navy pin striped blouse or shirt suits the Delta image much better than purple. Uniforms should be cotton or light weight wool so they breathe. Polyester does not breathe can be very hot in the warm months.

The purple is ugly, uniforms should compliment the cabin interiors.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:12 pm

jfern022 wrote:
I overheard a group of FA’s in ATL talking amongst each other saying they were getting doctors note even though they weren’t sick, to change to the alternate uniforms so they can “unite for AFA”


Exactly. Oy.
 
wjcandee
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:16 pm

questions wrote:
3) There is a disgruntled group of employees who is causing a stink and another group of employees, who didn’t really like the uniforms but are not necessarily disgruntled, jumped on the alternative uniform wagon, thereby making the problem bigger than what it is — the disgruntled group’s stink
.


We have a winner. And add in the idea that wearing the alternative uniform somehow shows support for AFA -- stickin' it to the Man and all.
 
Prost
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:58 am

My uniform gave me a rash that opened my skin and caused me to bleed. I can’t be too prideful of that.
 
flyer0889
Posts: 6
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:12 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
flyer0889 wrote:
questions wrote:

Employees were on design teams, there were focus groups, they were field tested and employee feedback was obtained — all with the intent of employee involvement and acceptance.

Three possibilities of what’s going on:
1) The design methodology was flawed and employee feedback data was incomplete/misinterpreted and/or the calculation for employee acceptance was over estimated
2) Something is wrong with the manufacturing of the uniforms
3) There is a disgruntled group of employees who is causing a stink and another group of employees, who didn’t really like the uniforms but are not necessarily disgruntled, jumped on the alternative uniform wagon, thereby making the problem bigger than what it is — the disgruntled group’s stink

My bet is #1 and #3.


Employee feedback was negative on the designs but the company still pushed forward. They made minor changes with our feedback but never fully reversed course when they realized we overwhelmingly disliked them.


Not all feedback was negative maybe you and ur friends didn’t like them. All of my friends from 2-40 years liked them. They are also stylish and understand the point of a uniform and understand that a brand must innovate.

The Richard Tyler uniform in the end was a frumpy ill fitting, basic uniform that even Southwest Airlines new uniform and American has surpassed. The guys had a zoot suit for Gods sake! A zoot suit combined with a turtle neck. The best part of the women’s line was the skirt and blazer with the red lining showing if it was fitted properly but 9/10 it wasn’t.


When I say “we” I mean the workgroup as a whole. As a male I like my uniform but the women got the short end of the stick.

The negative feedback I’m referencing was internal polling which showed a majority dislike for the new uniform. If I go based on my personal experience, with the crews I’ve flown with, (over 600k miles since the uniform release) I would say the overwhelming majority has been neutral to negative when the topic comes up.

I agree with your points on the Richard Tyler uniform. It was absolutely Ill fitting, dated, and needed to go. Over the decade it was out the suppliers for pieces had changed so many times that many wore pieces with mismatched colors if you looked closely enough.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:18 pm

Just some insight.

Continental people hated the Delta Plum color uniform they had. Now back then Continental people hated everything after the Lorenzo fiasco.

I kind of liked Continental’s uniform color, as I do Delta’s.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
questions
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:48 pm

flyer0889 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:
flyer0889 wrote:

Employee feedback was negative on the designs but the company still pushed forward. They made minor changes with our feedback but never fully reversed course when they realized we overwhelmingly disliked them.


Not all feedback was negative maybe you and ur friends didn’t like them. All of my friends from 2-40 years liked them. They are also stylish and understand the point of a uniform and understand that a brand must innovate.

The Richard Tyler uniform in the end was a frumpy ill fitting, basic uniform that even Southwest Airlines new uniform and American has surpassed. The guys had a zoot suit for Gods sake! A zoot suit combined with a turtle neck. The best part of the women’s line was the skirt and blazer with the red lining showing if it was fitted properly but 9/10 it wasn’t.


When I say “we” I mean the workgroup as a whole. As a male I like my uniform [b]but the women got the short end of the stick[/b].

The negative feedback I’m referencing was internal polling which showed a majority dislike for the new uniform. If I go based on my personal experience, with the crews I’ve flown with, (over 600k miles since the uniform release) I would say the overwhelming majority has been neutral to negative when the topic comes up.

I agree with your points on the Richard Tyler uniform. It was absolutely Ill fitting, dated, and needed to go. Over the decade it was out the suppliers for pieces had changed so many times that many wore pieces with mismatched colors if you looked closely enough.


I think the two styles of the men’s jacket look awful. But I don’t have to wear it.

I’m curious, why the women got the short end of the stick. It seems like they have more pieces to chose from than the guys do — slacks, skirt, 2 dresses, jacket, vest, 2 sweaters, 2 blouses, turtleneck.

What have they shared with you that they do not like about the uniform.

Thanks.
 
bhill
Posts: 1861
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:05 pm

Stupid....Delta should ask the DoD who sources their flight suits...use that material...same shit the Army and Air Force prolly use!!
Carpe Pices
 
flyer0889
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:30 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:20 pm

questions wrote:
flyer0889 wrote:
LawAndOrder wrote:

Not all feedback was negative maybe you and ur friends didn’t like them. All of my friends from 2-40 years liked them. They are also stylish and understand the point of a uniform and understand that a brand must innovate.

The Richard Tyler uniform in the end was a frumpy ill fitting, basic uniform that even Southwest Airlines new uniform and American has surpassed. The guys had a zoot suit for Gods sake! A zoot suit combined with a turtle neck. The best part of the women’s line was the skirt and blazer with the red lining showing if it was fitted properly but 9/10 it wasn’t.


When I say “we” I mean the workgroup as a whole. As a male I like my uniform [b]but the women got the short end of the stick[/b].

The negative feedback I’m referencing was internal polling which showed a majority dislike for the new uniform. If I go based on my personal experience, with the crews I’ve flown with, (over 600k miles since the uniform release) I would say the overwhelming majority has been neutral to negative when the topic comes up.

I agree with your points on the Richard Tyler uniform. It was absolutely Ill fitting, dated, and needed to go. Over the decade it was out the suppliers for pieces had changed so many times that many wore pieces with mismatched colors if you looked closely enough.


I think the two styles of the men’s jacket look awful. But I don’t have to wear it.

I’m curious, why the women got the short end of the stick. It seems like they have more pieces to chose from than the guys do — slacks, skirt, 2 dresses, jacket, vest, 2 sweaters, 2 blouses, turtleneck.

What have they shared with you that they do not like about the uniform.

Thanks


Lack of useable pockets for any type of storage (like our company issued devices with seat map/sales/communication with gate agent). The company gave us tiny pens that you find in the D1 amenity kits because you can’t fit a standard pen in their pockets - this was discussed constantly during wear testing.

A majority of their looks are head to toe purple. Unnecessary Barney comments from passengers aside, the purple dye has a crocking issue causing purple undergarments and isn’t resolving with multiple washes. If you board a delta aircraft, look at the white tags on our jump seat harnesses and you’ll see they all have a purple tint to them now. Same with the edges of tables and even the edges of their company ID.

The scarfs don’t stay put and they’re constantly adjusting them (many asked for a breakaway scarf due to concerns about safety that was mentioned in the works and never provided). There was a grey women’s suit, that was initially considered, and dropped, that’s finally being produced due to concerns about the purple dye.

This is just stuff from top of mind that I recall. Guys complain too, but I hear more functionality concerns from the women.
 
questions
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:40 pm

flyer0889 wrote:

> Lack of useable pockets for any type of storage (like our company issued devices with seat map/sales/communication with gate agent ... you can’t fit a standard pen in their pockets

> the purple dye has a crocking issue causing purple undergarments... the white tags on our jump seat harnesses... all have a purple tint to them now... Same with... the edges of their company ID

> The scarfs don’t stay put and they’re constantly adjusting them (many asked for a breakaway scarf due to concerns about safety that was mentioned in the works and never provided).


That is some incredibly basic stuff from design and manufacturing perspectives.

Useable pockets for pens, and now smart phones, have always been on the list of must haves.
 
flyer0889
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:30 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:34 pm

questions wrote:
flyer0889 wrote:

> Lack of useable pockets for any type of storage (like our company issued devices with seat map/sales/communication with gate agent ... you can’t fit a standard pen in their pockets

> the purple dye has a crocking issue causing purple undergarments... the white tags on our jump seat harnesses... all have a purple tint to them now... Same with... the edges of their company ID

> The scarfs don’t stay put and they’re constantly adjusting them (many asked for a breakaway scarf due to concerns about safety that was mentioned in the works and never provided).


That is some incredibly basic stuff from design and manufacturing perspectives.

Useable pockets for pens, and now smart phones, have always been on the list of must haves.


Agreed! And it’s something that was provided early and often in feedback but was ignored, which circles back to my original argument - that I hope they listen and are as transparent as they have said they intend to be and as they stated they would be with the current uniform.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:47 am

flyer0889 wrote:
questions wrote:
flyer0889 wrote:

> Lack of useable pockets for any type of storage (like our company issued devices with seat map/sales/communication with gate agent ... you can’t fit a standard pen in their pockets

> the purple dye has a crocking issue causing purple undergarments... the white tags on our jump seat harnesses... all have a purple tint to them now... Same with... the edges of their company ID

> The scarfs don’t stay put and they’re constantly adjusting them (many asked for a breakaway scarf due to concerns about safety that was mentioned in the works and never provided).


That is some incredibly basic stuff from design and manufacturing perspectives.

Useable pockets for pens, and now smart phones, have always been on the list of must haves.


Agreed! And it’s something that was provided early and often in feedback but was ignored, which circles back to my original argument - that I hope they listen and are as transparent as they have said they intend to be and as they stated they would be with the current uniform.


How did that happen?? Weren’t frontline workers, including FA’s, on the design team? Who overrode them? I can’t imagine Zac Posen would wield that much power since Delta was his client. Who on the Delta side overrode the feedback? The current guy who’s in charge of “Onboard Brand Experience and Uniforms”... the one who used to purchase fuel?
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3150
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:08 am

questions wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
Seat1F wrote:
I agree. Nothing was wrong with the prior uniforms. They certainly looked much better than the current purple uniforms.


Should go back to what they had before, or hire Old Navy that did VA America and go from there ... whomever made the decision at DELTA to switch to the purple costumes will be out of their job


Employees were on design teams, there were focus groups, they were field tested and employee feedback was obtained — all with the intent of employee involvement and acceptance.

Three possibilities of what’s going on:
1) The design methodology was flawed and employee feedback data was incomplete/misinterpreted and/or the calculation for employee acceptance was over estimated
2) Something is wrong with the manufacturing of the uniforms
3) There is a disgruntled group of employees who is causing a stink and another group of employees, who didn’t really like the uniforms but are not necessarily disgruntled, jumped on the alternative uniform wagon, thereby making the problem bigger than what it is — the disgruntled group’s stink

My bet is #1 and #3.


In Tech Ops we pretty much all hated our new look as soon as we saw it. At least we got the stupid purple minimized. The zipper on the polo looks like some 70's Studio 54 crap. The workshirt reminds me of a Waffen SS shirt. I own ZERO of those shirts. The T-shirt had a terrible fit. What designer can't make a basic T shirt? The pants are way too tight fitting for most of us. Yes, we are fat. Why couldn't they just make pants like all the other work pants from Dickey's and Red Cap?

AND WHY PURPLE? This isn't FedEx!

The pants have faded incredibly fast. No coveralls because Lands End does not do coveralls. Almost two years just to get a basic sweatshirt added? I hear the jackets just suck up jet fuel if they get wet. I have to wear a plain t-shirt under the polo due to the fabric. Never had to wear two shirts with the old plain Cintas polo.

Where are they made? For TechOps, Vietnam, one of my coworkers got blasted by a Director because he questioned why they could not be US made.
 
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NWAESC
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:23 am

The pants they were wear testing earlier this year are much more roomier. They also got rid of the rubberized cover of the button. Hopefully, those changes stay.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
questions
Posts: 2337
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Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:29 am

Dalmd88 wrote:
questions wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:

Should go back to what they had before, or hire Old Navy that did VA America and go from there ... whomever made the decision at DELTA to switch to the purple costumes will be out of their job


Employees were on design teams, there were focus groups, they were field tested and employee feedback was obtained — all with the intent of employee involvement and acceptance.

Three possibilities of what’s going on:
1) The design methodology was flawed and employee feedback data was incomplete/misinterpreted and/or the calculation for employee acceptance was over estimated
2) Something is wrong with the manufacturing of the uniforms
3) There is a disgruntled group of employees who is causing a stink and another group of employees, who didn’t really like the uniforms but are not necessarily disgruntled, jumped on the alternative uniform wagon, thereby making the problem bigger than what it is — the disgruntled group’s stink

My bet is #1 and #3.


In Tech Ops we pretty much all hated our new look as soon as we saw it. At least we got the stupid purple minimized. The zipper on the polo looks like some 70's Studio 54 crap. The workshirt reminds me of a Waffen SS shirt. I own ZERO of those shirts. The T-shirt had a terrible fit. What designer can't make a basic T shirt? The pants are way too tight fitting for most of us. Yes, we are fat. Why couldn't they just make pants like all the other work pants from Dickey's and Red Cap?

AND WHY PURPLE? This isn't FedEx!

The pants have faded incredibly fast. No coveralls because Lands End does not do coveralls. Almost two years just to get a basic sweatshirt added? I hear the jackets just suck up jet fuel if they get wet. I have to wear a plain t-shirt under the polo due to the fabric. Never had to wear two shirts with the old plain Cintas polo.

Where are they made? For TechOps, Vietnam, one of my coworkers got blasted by a Director because he questioned why they could not be US made.


Interesting to hear from a non cabin crew member. Thanks.

In this article there is a group shot, including a TechOps guy wearing the zippered shirt:

https://www.twincities.com/2020/01/03/delta-workers-sue-manufacturer-lands-end-over-uniforms/

What type of role does the guy behind the pilot’s left shoulder have? He appears to be wearing the alternative uniform, black trousers and white dress shirt.
 
reggiet
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 5:04 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:54 am

Prost wrote:
kjeld0d wrote:
Chafing and rashes I get...its probably flameproof polyester that doesn't breathe. Someone will have to explain to me how uniforms can cause "vertigo and even impaired liver functions".

The chemicals the uniforms were sprayed with when placed into the shipping containers, the chemicals imbedded in the fabric for fire retardant and other properties. This is not some hysterical FAs complaining.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
Reggie in Austin
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: DL launching new Uniforms amidst health concerns

Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:36 am

I must concur with some of the other posters, the ramp uniforms are utter shiite. The pants and hats especially would fade after being in the sun for a few short weeks to a little over a month. Faded to the point they weren't gray anymore. The pants were made for people who like to wear them at pubic bone level. You pull them up any higher, like most normal people do, and your "Frank and Beans" will be prominently displayed for all to see. And try getting the rubber button off of those pants in a hurry, you'll be wearing soiled pants I assure you. Some of the work shirts were made with cardboard imbedded in them. After twenty washes I can still stand my shirts up on their own. The rain equipment we were given, LOL, doesn't keep you dry.. They added an insulated liner for the jackets because apparently, they didn't realize that some stations get cold in the winter, go figure! We were advised by some of the original wear testers that the uniform and accessories that they originally tested were definitely not the same materials and fit as the final items that were handed out to us. Colors aside, these new uniforms are crap, they wear like crap and fit like crap. Some rampers have resorted to wearing the old uniform pants and other items as the fit and quality are much better.
I miss the Red Tail

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