The first one was painted white only because A6-EYP will soon be delivered to Altavair AirFinance, but they probably haven't found a lease customer. (EY is simplifying to 3 groups: A320 family, A380, and B777/B787.) Most of the A330 fleet is still parked at AUH...which has been used for lease returns before for leased planes; A6-EYP is owned until Altavair takes possession.

That one in regular EY livery was the next flight shows that sometimes necessity changes things. As for the KSA, I'm surprised they didn't allow overflight over their airspace...unless KSA airspace is closed for all overflight.

Since each direction was maybe 4 hours did the same crew work it RT?


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smi0006 wrote:

Brilliant to see a bit a little bit of humanity and coordination to ease suffering if only that’s what comes out of this mess,

rampbro wrote:

Sometimes humanity wins out,
even in the most challenging conditions.

Side note: I would have been mercilessly upbraided by my lead for looking at my phone on a ramp. This was 10+ years ago though - has that changed, or is the gentleman in the photo in for a ride?

Lots of Loading reports are now viewable on devices, along with electronic LIR readback, perhaps it’s simply his duty phone?

Loading staff at TLV use a sort of smartphone with a 'walkie-talkie' function on it, where they send each other voice messages instead of direct talking. I'm sure they can use it for other stuff too!
And it's quite common to see ground staff on their personal phone during a turn around, especially when they are waiting for the luggage to arrive or something similar. Normally they would hide a bit more than this though .

This is clearly a cover for Etihad to perform proving flights from AUH to TLV. I expect Etihad to start flying to TLV once the industry recovers with passenger flights. The TLV market connecting through AUH/DXB is too big to ignore. I was expecting Emirates or Gulf Air first, but Etihad sees this as a big business opportunity. The amount of TLV traffic to India, Singapore, Australia, NZ, is too much to pass up. This is long overdue.

Wouldn't there be a need for some sort of minimal *explicit* state recognition or diplomatic relations (not just the behind-closed-doors stuff that happens right now) between Israel and the UAE before regular non-stop passenger flights can happen ?
I'd be very happy if regular passenger flights between TLV and AUH (or DXB) really was to happen - and people in the 2 countries can communicate, meet and exchange ideas better with each other

Edit - that said, I found this - https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-said- ... 2020-expo/

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Wouldn't there be a need for some sort of minimal *explicit* state recognition or diplomatic relations (not just the behind-closed-doors stuff that happens right now) between Israel and the UAE before regular non-stop passenger flights can happen ?

I imagine there would have to be some sort of consular services to allow each other to accept each other's passport holders as visitors. Though in tricky situations this is sometimes handled as an office in neutral third country's embassy.

AshFlops wrote:

This is clearly a cover for Etihad to perform proving flights from AUH to TLV.

The flights might also be a cover to send some secret military tech the other way. Would explain the lack of coordination with Palestinian authorities for the aid shipment.

davidjohnson6 wrote:

Wouldn't there be a need for some sort of minimal *explicit* state recognition or diplomatic relations (not just the behind-closed-doors stuff that happens right now) between Israel and the UAE before regular non-stop passenger flights can happen ?
I'd be very happy if regular passenger flights between TLV and AUH (or DXB) really was to happen - and people in the 2 countries can communicate, meet and exchange ideas better with each other

Edit - that said, I found this - https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-said- ... 2020-expo/

I guess that "some sort" of thing is needed but it can probably be handled in a creative way, like many countries already did with Taiwan.
Even if the question of Israel is frequently used as a rhetorical tool in Middle Eastern politics, it doesn't go much further in many countries. There is no real action on this topic. I tend to think that the first step in establishing some kind of relationship with Israel will be the hardest but once a country will have taken the risk, many other may follow, having the excuse of not being "the first one" to cross the Rubicon.
In fact, a little step already happened with AI flights, but it doesn't seem to be enough, it probably needs to be a direct, explicit, move from an Arab nation (and air transport may well be either the driving force or the pretext).

Toinou wrote:

In fact, a little step already happened with AI flights, but it doesn't seem to be enough, it probably needs to be a direct, explicit, move from an Arab nation (and air transport may well be either the driving force or the pretext).

There are already flights from Arab nations - Egypt (4D as a wet-lease under MS with TLV the only destination) and Jordan (RJ) ... and if flights open up to any of the other airlines in the region, I'd guess that RJ would be the ones with most to lose, and perhaps to a lessor extent TK. Which airline is going to get first (well, second)-move advantage? If not EY/EK, could it be WY? Oman seems to be the 'Switzerland' of the region being buddy-buddy with Qatar, so they may extend the olive branch from Muscat across to Tel Aviv.

Watch and see ...

Jordan and Egypt are out of the move I described as they already have official (albeit limited) relationships with Israel. It would probably need to be a Gulf state to be of any effect.
Oman may be a good candidate and I guess they already have some kind of relationship with Israel (https://www.france24.com/en/20190701-is ... -spy-chief). But they've always had a special place in the Arab world, so it may not be enough.

RogerMurdock wrote:

AshFlops wrote:

This is clearly a cover for Etihad to perform proving flights from AUH to TLV.

The flights might also be a cover to send some secret military tech the other way. Would explain the lack of coordination with Palestinian authorities for the aid shipment.

Very likely. It was reported late last year that UAE had purchased Israeli UAVs, and in April that the UAE had purchased some sort of Israeli missile system that they were going to supply to some allies in Libya.

As long as Islamic fundamentalists have even a tiny bit of influence on the Gulf countries or rather the Islamic countries in the world as a whole we won't see any normalization.
Yes there's some undercover cooperation but officially all those countries want to see Israel being destroyed.
I'm surprised the Israelis allowed EY to land at TLV and that they even considered it instead of AMM

LH748 wrote:

As long as Islamic fundamentalists have even a tiny bit of influence on the Gulf countries or rather the Islamic countries in the world as a whole we won't see any normalization.
Yes there's some undercover cooperation but officially all those countries want to see Israel being destroyed.
I'm surprised the Israelis allowed EY to land at TLV and that they even considered it instead of AMM

Israel would jump at any opportunity to have Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air, or Gulf Air fly to TLV. Of course they allowed it, why on Earth wouldn't they? Israel has been pushing for normalization for decades.

AshFlops wrote:

LH748 wrote:

As long as Islamic fundamentalists have even a tiny bit of influence on the Gulf countries or rather the Islamic countries in the world as a whole we won't see any normalization.
Yes there's some undercover cooperation but officially all those countries want to see Israel being destroyed.
I'm surprised the Israelis allowed EY to land at TLV and that they even considered it instead of AMM

Israel would jump at any opportunity to have Emirates, Etihad, Oman Air, or Gulf Air fly to TLV. Of course they allowed it, why on Earth wouldn't they? Israel has been pushing for normalization for decades.

It would have to be like-for-like ... Israel might be happy to have an EY plane land in TLV, would the United Arab Emirates be please to have an EL plane land in AUH? Hmmmm ...

El Al wouldn't fly to DXB or AUH because there isn't any feed. AUH and DXB serve as hubs for ET and EK and could take an enormous amount of traffic from TLV to SIN/MNL/AUS-NZ via these hubs. The same way that El Al doesn't fly to IST, but TK flies multiple times a day from TLV-IST.

Syria and Iran definitely won't grant flyover rights to Israeli airlinrs. It is extremely unlikely that Iraq would grant flyover to Israeli airlines. Saudi Arabia has granted flyover rights to Air India to when flying India-Israel, but not to El Al. Yes I know there is the odd private flight with rights that makes a technical stop in Jordan, but I'm talking about public nonstop commercial flights...

Until one of these 4 countries grants flyover rights to Israel airlines while Etihad has Iraqi flyover rights when going between Israel athe UAE, then Israeli airlines are at a significant disadvantage. I don't think you will see El Al in Abu Dhabi any time soon

Flight EY8203 is on its way on the mentionned route. What could be the reason at this time of the pandemic?

https://www.flightradar24.com/ETD8203/24b3a7a3

LIkely to be a cargo only flight (depsite being a pax plane).

Repatriating Dominicans who live in the UAE.

I read this as AUH-SDU and had several burning questions.

they were just in HAV last week doing cargo deliveries.

maps4ltd wrote:

I read this as AUH-SDU and had several burning questions.

Omg me too. I was wondering what metal EY had that could land in SDU.

As stated above, repatriation and providing relief supplies. Here's an article on EY's flights to Central America:

https://www.thenational.ae/lifestyle/tr ... -1.1033137

asuflyer wrote:

Repatriating Dominicans who live in the UAE.

...all TWO of them ? (if that)

F27500 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

Repatriating Dominicans who live in the UAE.

...all TWO of them ? (if that)

I imagine there would be several hundred at least.

Caymanair wrote:

F27500 wrote:

asuflyer wrote:

Repatriating Dominicans who live in the UAE.

...all TWO of them ? (if that)

I imagine there would be several hundred at least.

There are approximately 4000-5000 Dominicans in the UAE.

asuflyer wrote:

Caymanair wrote:

F27500 wrote:

...all TWO of them ? (if that)

I imagine there would be several hundred at least.

There are approximately 4000-5000 Dominicans in the UAE.

No!

That is both surprising and informative...

Etihad is being subpoenaed over documents related to the EY/AZ debt assumption agreement. They are being given until July 7th to respond.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-etih ... SKBN23X1QX

And what exactly has this to do with a NY Court? Meddling in others affairs while the city burns!

Fliplot wrote:

And what exactly has this to do with a NY Court? Meddling in others affairs while the city burns!

It's a Federal court - with a long history of Wall Street prosecutions. You don't want people keeping investment markets clean and transparent?

U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York

Fliplot wrote:

And what exactly has this to do with a NY Court? Meddling in others affairs while the city burns!

Wow, really? You do understand how finances work, yes? And LOL the city is not burning. You seem to be strong on drama but light on facts.

I would really like to understand the structure of the EA Partners repeated borrowings of money - it's puzzled me as to how this all really works and seems more than a little obscure and overly complex to avoid transparency in what is really happening. I would guess that somebody somewhere is hiding behind legal technicalities that once exposed in public view might not look good

https://www.pionline.com/money-manageme ... detectives

Air Serbia was also part of this and the Serbian government said that they will have to re-negotiate the terms as they seem highly unfavorable. Seems like Etihad's incompetence has no bounds. Hogan might be gone but his mess is still very much with us.

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2020/06/ai ... tihad.html

Not related, but the Italians are investigating the AZ management when EY was a major shareholder. All to do with fees EY collected plus the very expensive lease agreements on A330s that AZ paid EY during that time.

https://www.eturbonews.com/543213/alita ... -suspects/

As a point of order -- is any of the entities, named in Reuters article (except Fitch rating agency) actually domiciled in the US, to be subject to US court jurisdiction?

Phosphorus wrote:

As a point of order -- is any of the entities, named in Reuters article (except Fitch rating agency) actually domiciled in the US, to be subject to US court jurisdiction?

The bonds were marketed to US investors in the US. The moment you market financial securities in a country you come under their jurisdiction, independent of where the instruments are domiciled or held.

The court isn’t investigating, that’s not its role. It’s a subpoena issued for a lawsuit requested by the plaintiff’s attorneys.

Fliplot wrote:

And what exactly has this to do with a NY Court? Meddling in others affairs while the city burns!

Wouldn't common sense suggest that you wait for the answer to sentence1, before issuing sentence 2?

evanb wrote:

The moment you market financial securities in a country you come under their jurisdiction

The title should be changed to "U.S. Federal Court" (U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York). "New York court" implies state jurisdiction which is not the case.

INFINITI329 wrote:

The title should be changed to "U.S. Federal Court" (U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York). "New York court" implies state jurisdiction which is not the case.

Yes and no.

It's technically federal jurisdiction; but keep in mind that while Federal courts follow federal procedural law, Federal courts also follow the substantive law (i.e. those dealing with statutes of limitations, burdens of proof, choice of law, defenses, etc) of the state in which they sit.

So the fact that this is the SDNY is indeed significant in itself.

That's also a reason why D.C. statehood is one of the most imbecilic proposals coming out of partisan politics nowadays.... but that's a topic for nonav.

Probably a topic of interest to a select few, but as I sit here on a winter's morning in Windhoek, FR24 shows an Etihad 787-9 A6-BLU minutes away from landing at WDH. It's coming from Nairobi.

This is probably the first EY plane to come to WDH and from Nairobi?

The flight number is EY641.

Any ideas?

Most probably cargo there was one in HRE recently with COViD donations from UAE

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chiki wrote:

Most probably cargo there was one in HRE recently with COViD donations from UAE

Yes. I very much doubt if it was carrying passengers. Maybe it dropped half its load at NBO and brought the rest here?

Etihad removes the Airbus A380 from its schedules for the foreseeable future. This follows CEO Tony Douglas previously stating the fate of the A380s was undecided.

https://simpleflying.com/etihad-airbus- ... -schedule/

mercure1 wrote:

Etihad removes the Airbus A380 from its schedules for the foreseeable future. This follows CEO Tony Douglas previously stating the fate of the A380s was undecided.

https://simpleflying.com/etihad-airbus- ... -schedule/

I guess the future of inflight showers in commercial aviation isn't looking very bright now (not like they could be used anyway with the pandemic and all).

Expected but sad, one of the most comfortable ride out there, business and economy...
Only made sense financially for London route, and the A350-1000 could make the job if they ever decide to take it!

If Etihad is indeed refocusing to become a regional niche carrier then the 787-10 fits them like a glove. Unfortunately they have a lot of sunk cash in the bigger stuff which needs dealing with first.
Even the 773ER is probably too big for them in this new vision of Etihad.

EY confirms A380 removed from schedule until fall 2021 at very least.

Statement from company:
“As Etihad continues to focus on recovery and rebuilding our global network, we will continue to rely on the efficiencies and advantages of our twin engine wide-body aircraft," the spokesman told Executive Traveller. "During this period, Etihad’s 10 Airbus A380s will remain grounded, until demand grows and there is sufficient appetite to reassess their viability."

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 0-grounded

mercure1 wrote:

there is sufficient appetite to reassess their viability."[/i]

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 0-grounded

That doesn't sound like a vote of confidence in all honestly. The best case scenario is that they do come back, but that statement gives the feeling that even if demand comes back the A380 returning is not a sure thing.

Etihad Airways has confirmed that it intends to axe Inflight chefs and food and beverage managers in the coming week.Etihad said the COVID-19 pandemic had forced it to “evolve” and “operate in the most efficient way” which in turn has led to the streamlining of in-flight crew roles.

Etihad Airways to Axe In-Flight Chefs and Food & Beverage Managers
https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020 ... -managers/

Who is left with this service? OS and TK??

mercure1 wrote:

EY confirms A380 removed from schedule until fall 2021 at very least.

Statement from company:
“As Etihad continues to focus on recovery and rebuilding our global network, we will continue to rely on the efficiencies and advantages of our twin engine wide-body aircraft," the spokesman told Executive Traveller. "During this period, Etihad’s 10 Airbus A380s will remain grounded, until demand grows and there is sufficient appetite to reassess their viability."

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 0-grounded

The reality is, the A380 needs volume demand to be viable. It will be a tough market to bring them back.

Etihad is facinating as they were downsizing pre-Covid19.

Lightsaber