Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
jfk777 wrote:The 787 will have incremental upgrades as expected. A longer range 787-10 would be welcome as a 777-200ER replacement. A 787-9 flying from JFK to Sydney nonstop would be a welcome development.
cskok8 wrote:Should it be called 787 Max 9 and Max 10?
n5u wrote:If your going to "NG" anything it should be the 727-200 it was the best plane they ever built. Pilots loved it, it had good short field performance,fast, comfortable and you did't need any ground facilities.
Mightyflyer86 wrote:n5u wrote:If your going to "NG" anything it should be the 727-200 it was the best plane they ever built. Pilots loved it, it had good short field performance,fast, comfortable and you did't need any ground facilities.
The 727NG exists, its name is the 757.
Max Q wrote:Boeing should not let the 787 get ‘stale’
keep improving it
n5u wrote:Mightyflyer86 wrote:n5u wrote:If your going to "NG" anything it should be the 727-200 it was the best plane they ever built. Pilots loved it, it had good short field performance,fast, comfortable and you did't need any ground facilities.
The 727NG exists, its name is the 757.
no it was the replacement but it missed the mark. Not to take anything away for the 757 though it too was a grate plane but it was to heavy and because of its tall landing gear it needs special equipment at the gate. the 727-200 did the job of the 737 & 757 not to mention the fact that it was built way more sold the either of them. The thing was as solid as a brick outhouse...
VSMUT wrote:Max Q wrote:Boeing should not let the 787 get ‘stale’
keep improving it
I completely agree. But having said that, a 787NG is not the way forward right now. What Boeing should do is a rolling series of improvements ala what Airbus did under the "A320 Enhanced" program. Launched in 2006, it rolled out a series of minor improvements (engine PIPs, new cabin, minor aerodynamic tweeks, winglets), ultimately culminating with the re-engined A320neo.
Under a similar program, Boeing should roll out cabin improvements (which to be honest, it really needs), aerodynamic improvements, improved/modified wingtip devices (I mean, if Airbus could improve the A350 winglets barely 3 years after EIS, Boeing should be able to do something as well), various technological advances and improved MTOWs, culminating with a 787neo in 8-10 years when a new engine is truly available.
Max Q wrote:VSMUT wrote:Max Q wrote:Boeing should not let the 787 get ‘stale’
keep improving it
I completely agree. But having said that, a 787NG is not the way forward right now. What Boeing should do is a rolling series of improvements ala what Airbus did under the "A320 Enhanced" program. Launched in 2006, it rolled out a series of minor improvements (engine PIPs, new cabin, minor aerodynamic tweeks, winglets), ultimately culminating with the re-engined A320neo.
Under a similar program, Boeing should roll out cabin improvements (which to be honest, it really needs), aerodynamic improvements, improved/modified wingtip devices (I mean, if Airbus could improve the A350 winglets barely 3 years after EIS, Boeing should be able to do something as well), various technological advances and improved MTOWs, culminating with a 787neo in 8-10 years when a new engine is truly available.
Agree completely, that’s probably the best way forward and would spike interest in further sales
Max Q wrote:n5u wrote:Mightyflyer86 wrote:
The 727NG exists, its name is the 757.
no it was the replacement but it missed the mark. Not to take anything away for the 757 though it too was a grate plane but it was to heavy and because of its tall landing gear it needs special equipment at the gate. the 727-200 did the job of the 737 & 757 not to mention the fact that it was built way more sold the either of them. The thing was as solid as a brick outhouse...
I’ve quite a bit of experience in both the 727 and 757
I appreciate your affection for the 727, it was a fine, solid,very fast aircraft and it handled beautifully
However it can’t come close to the 757 in efficiency, payload and range, it certainly couldn’t do the same job
zkncj wrote:Oykie wrote:There was a rumor that the 787-10 for Air NZ had an increased range, but IIRC they will not offer more range, but 787-9 will do more longer haul flying and shuffling the planes around.
For the first batch of 787-10s are coming with the standard range, although I would expect by the time NZ looks at ordering an second batch they will be of an extended range -10 model.
NZ/Boeing have both been public about looking at ways to extend the range for NZ’s requirements.
AKL-EWR will be operated by an 275 seat 789.
n5u wrote:Max Q wrote:n5u wrote:
no it was the replacement but it missed the mark. Not to take anything away for the 757 though it too was a grate plane but it was to heavy and because of its tall landing gear it needs special equipment at the gate. the 727-200 did the job of the 737 & 757 not to mention the fact that it was built way more sold the either of them. The thing was as solid as a brick outhouse...
I’ve quite a bit of experience in both the 727 and 757
I appreciate your affection for the 727, it was a fine, solid,very fast aircraft and it handled beautifully
However it can’t come close to the 757 in efficiency, payload and range, it certainly couldn’t do the same job
Ill agree but it would have been nice to see what the 27 could do with high bypass engines. Like the tays off the folker-100s
Max Q wrote:n5u wrote:Max Q wrote:
I’ve quite a bit of experience in both the 727 and 757
I appreciate your affection for the 727, it was a fine, solid,very fast aircraft and it handled beautifully
However it can’t come close to the 757 in efficiency, payload and range, it certainly couldn’t do the same job
Ill agree but it would have been nice to see what the 27 could do with high bypass engines. Like the tays off the folker-100s
There were lots of proposals to re-engine the 727 including total removal of the #2 engine and the entire inlet and replacement of #1 and #3 with high bypass engines of much greater thrust overall than all three of the earlier power plants
I remember AA was quite interested but I don’t remember which engines were specified, they had a very large 727 fleet to replace or update but they eventually went with the MD80 which they got an amazing deal on from MD and it was considerably more efficient
However UPS did re-engine their 727-100 airframes with the Tay and an updated cockpit with efis displays
And of course numerous conversions on -100 and -200 series were done replacing #1 and #3 with the JT8D-217 or -219 engines, this mod also removed the reverser on the #2 engine
I couldn’t agree more with you on what a fine aircraft the 727 was
It was the first Jet I ever flew and I was in it for six years, initially as an FE and then in the right seat as FO
It was a beautiful aircraft to fly, solid, stable, very fast, very responsive and it went through turbulence like a knife through butter
Best wishes
olle wrote:Airbus seems to work on a 350neo right now. They seems to consider that RR will come with something around 2025.
I think Boeing and Airbus right right now want to address different markets. Boeing is forced to do something about NB.
Airbus on the other hand see that they might be able to reach 50% market share in wb.
I would no be surprised to see a A350 800 concept coming again replacing 330neo perhaps using a smaller wing in order to compete with 787 900 and 1000 while maintaining it for 350 1000 and a new 1100.
A 787neo and 350neo within 5-7 years timeframe will therefore leave some victims. 330 and 777.
DfwRevolution wrote:For those saying a 787 update is premature, all past Boeing widebodies received a significant update to propulsion, aerodynamics, and structures after about 10 years of in-service experience, plus or minus a few years. GE and Rolls Royce were working on the GE90-115B and Trent 8105 just five years after the 777 entered service.
n5u wrote:Max Q wrote:n5u wrote:
Ill agree but it would have been nice to see what the 27 could do with high bypass engines. Like the tays off the folker-100s
There were lots of proposals to re-engine the 727 including total removal of the #2 engine and the entire inlet and replacement of #1 and #3 with high bypass engines of much greater thrust overall than all three of the earlier power plants
I remember AA was quite interested but I don’t remember which engines were specified, they had a very large 727 fleet to replace or update but they eventually went with the MD80 which they got an amazing deal on from MD and it was considerably more efficient
However UPS did re-engine their 727-100 airframes with the Tay and an updated cockpit with efis displays
And of course numerous conversions on -100 and -200 series were done replacing #1 and #3 with the JT8D-217 or -219 engines, this mod also removed the reverser on the #2 engine
I couldn’t agree more with you on what a fine aircraft the 727 was
It was the first Jet I ever flew and I was in it for six years, initially as an FE and then in the right seat as FO
It was a beautiful aircraft to fly, solid, stable, very fast, very responsive and it went through turbulence like a knife through butter
Best wishes
awesome I wish there was a like button ....but i would love to hear more 727 stories
Silverstreak wrote:Deserts are full of “new and improved” airliners which were never to their full potential. How about slowing down a bit?
Max Q wrote:A larger fan seems problematic with the very short landing gear on the 787
n5u wrote:Mightyflyer86 wrote:n5u wrote:If your going to "NG" anything it should be the 727-200 it was the best plane they ever built. Pilots loved it, it had good short field performance,fast, comfortable and you did't need any ground facilities.
The 727NG exists, its name is the 757.
no it was the replacement but it missed the mark. Not to take anything away for the 757 though it too was a grate plane but it was to heavy and because of its tall landing gear it needs special equipment at the gate. the 727-200 did the job of the 737 & 757 not to mention the fact that it was built way more sold the either of them. The thing was as solid as a brick outhouse...