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OKCDCA
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AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:08 pm

At long last OKC will finally get a non-stop flight to NYC’s preferred O/D airport on June 4th utilizing an E175. This continues AA’s impressive expansion in OKC bringing total N/S destinations to nine and an average of 22 flights/day.

Will be interesting to see if UA responds by going year round to EWR or if DL matches.

https://flyokc.com/american-airlines-an ... ia-airport
 
kavok
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:53 pm

AA continues to improve service from their quasi-focus cities like OKC. Smart move in increasing loyalty among the local OKC business traffic. DL has been doing this for years in places like IND, MKE, TPA, etc. UA seems to be the odd one out, but good for AA.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:08 pm

And yet WN keeps cutting service to OKC. Hmmm
 
LCDFlight
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:14 pm

Interesting context, AA also covers OKC-DCA on E75. And WN competes on that route with 737! Routes like these are the definition of "business route" and both DL and AA are very astute at their DCA and LGA routes. BOS also, but that is a higher mix of leisure IMO.
 
FSDan
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:35 pm

I wonder where the slot is coming from to fund this? Maybe they're cutting something like LGA-CAK that's just a daily 50-seater right now?
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joeljack
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:51 pm

I think this is VERY smart for the long term success of the airline. Delta has added lots of focal cities around the nation to establish and win the frequent flyer base in these cities. AA has the strongest FF base out of the 3 major's in OKC, AA would like to keep that long term. Servicing 9 destinations from OKC will definitely do that! Very smart!

Sort of related, United doesn't have this strategy around the nation and eventually (10-20 years) DL and AA will own all the major cities that don't have hubs by providing some limited service to major business markets that go beyond their hubs. AA is smart to make sure they keep owning OKC frequent flyer base that generates higher yields.
 
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TheZ
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:06 pm

Great news for Oklahoma City!
If you have to say "pun intended," it's not a good enough pun.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:14 pm

UA was running E145s EWR-OKC not that long ago.

IMHO, calling 22 flights/day a quasi-focus city is pretty generous. You'd have 150+ focus cities by DL/AA/UA/WN with such a low threshold.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:41 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
UA was running E145s EWR-OKC not that long ago.

IMHO, calling 22 flights/day a quasi-focus city is pretty generous. You'd have 150+ focus cities by DL/AA/UA/WN with such a low threshold.


In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.
 
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Polot
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:46 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
UA was running E145s EWR-OKC not that long ago.

IMHO, calling 22 flights/day a quasi-focus city is pretty generous. You'd have 150+ focus cities by DL/AA/UA/WN with such a low threshold.


In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.

With the amount of hubs the US3 have many of their stations serve over 5 destinations. UA serves 6 destinations from OKC for example.

AA is purely operating to their hubs/recognized focus cities (+ now LGA) from OKC. That is hardly a “focus city” operation.
Last edited by Polot on Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:47 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
UA was running E145s EWR-OKC not that long ago.

IMHO, calling 22 flights/day a quasi-focus city is pretty generous. You'd have 150+ focus cities by DL/AA/UA/WN with such a low threshold.


In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.


Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:51 pm

FSDan wrote:
I wonder where the slot is coming from to fund this? Maybe they're cutting something like LGA-CAK that's just a daily 50-seater right now?

Pretty sure aa is not fully utilizing their slots now. There are a lot of 44 and 50 seater routes they could cut back on as their performance in NYC continues to decline.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:01 pm

Can I just say how pleasantly surprised I was by how nice OKC is? I connected through there a few years ago (DFW-OKC-LAX) and would absolutely fly through there again - even going all the way across the country on regional jets! Between the sparkling clean, uncrowded terminal to the delicious cheap food and friendly service: OKC was definitely one of the best airport experiences I have had in the entire U.S.!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:20 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
Can I just say how pleasantly surprised I was by how nice OKC is? I connected through there a few years ago (DFW-OKC-LAX) and would absolutely fly through there again - even going all the way across the country on regional jets! Between the sparkling clean, uncrowded terminal to the delicious cheap food and friendly service: OKC was definitely one of the best airport experiences I have had in the entire U.S.!


Glad to hear you enjoyed your transfer here! Next time, stay a few days - you'll likely be surprised at how much there is to do and eat and drink in OKC.

Personally I think our airport still has a looooooong way to go in terms of passenger amenities. Like it floors me that we don't have a Starbucks or McDonalds. Those aren't places I normally go in real life but at airports they're a reliable cheap option. The concessions at OKC leave a LOT to be desired IMO.

But OKC-LGA is a seriously huge leap for OKC! Hopefully this service does well.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:21 pm

Great news. Maybe this makes it more likely AA will start TUL-LGA. I doubt DL would try it given their weaker FF base there.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:42 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Great news. Maybe this makes it more likely AA will start TUL-LGA. I doubt DL would try it given their weaker FF base there.


TUL-PHL/PHX/MIA are more likely before we get to LGA from TUL in my opinion.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
DDR
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:40 am

Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:10 am

DDR wrote:
Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.

WN would bring back DAL-OKC long before that ever happens!
 
9w748capt
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Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:33 am

    DDR wrote:
    Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.


    Yeah, I can't see that happening. There's no way the economics of such a route would make sense.
     
    OKCDCA
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    Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

    Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:39 am

    One thing I’ll be very interested in seeing is how AA handles this additional morning flight. AA is already extremely busy in the morning, typically using G4’s Gate 1 for the morning LAX flight. I’ve got a feeling when the concourse expansion is complete AS and/or G4 will locate to the gates DL is vacating and AA will take over Gates 1 & 2.

    SurfandSnow wrote:
    Can I just say how pleasantly surprised I was by how nice OKC is? I connected through there a few years ago (DFW-OKC-LAX) and would absolutely fly through there again - even going all the way across the country on regional jets! Between the sparkling clean, uncrowded terminal to the delicious cheap food and friendly service: OKC was definitely one of the best airport experiences I have had in the entire U.S.!

    Glad you enjoyed OKC! It truly is a great airport. I remember growing up there and remember watching the rickety old two concourse terminal turn into the airport it is today. Even though I don’t live there anymore, I go back 5-6 times per year and take great pride as an Okie walking through it.

    AWACSooner wrote:
    DDR wrote:
    Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.

    WN would bring back DAL-OKC long before that ever happens!


    DL used to run ATL-TUL-OKC-SLC and back on 732’s. I think it was twice per day. At one point, I believe Comair had a CRJ running OKC-TUL 2x daily. If my memory serves me correctly it would fly CVG-OKC in the morning, fly two flights between OKC-TUL and head back to CVG in the evening. I may be completely off but for some reason I’m reminded of it.
     
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    TWA772LR
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    Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

    Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:37 am

    AWACSooner wrote:
    And yet WN keeps cutting service to OKC. Hmmm

    Ive said it once, I've said it 37 times. WN needs a smaller aircraft.
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    jplatts
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    Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

    Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:27 pm

    9w748capt wrote:
      DDR wrote:
      Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.


      Yeah, I can't see that happening. There's no way the economics of such a route would make sense.


      HNL-KOA, HNL-LIH, and OGG-KOA are the only WN nonstop routes that are shorter than OKC-TUL, but these three routes are between Hawaiian destinations.

      While MDW-GRR is only 26 miles longer than OKC-TUL, WN can make MDW-GRR nonstop service work due to WN having a much bigger presence at MDW and due to WN being able to offer connections to most of its domestic connections from GRR at MDW.

      Most of the destinations that passengers in OKC and TUL would be connecting to on WN already either (a) have nonstop service out of both OKC and TUL on WN or (b) have 1-stop connecting options from both OKC and TUL through airports outside of Oklahoma on WN. The same is true for passengers connecting to domestic or international destinations from OKC or TUL on AA, UA, and DL.

      There are some nonstop routes that could be added by US3 carriers out of TUL, including TUL-MIA/LGA/PHL/PHX on AA, TUL-BOS/DTW/LAX/SEA on DL, and TUL-EWR/SFO/IAD on UA.

      There are also a few more nonstop routes that could be added by DL out of OKC such as OKC-BOS/LAX/LGA/SEA.
       
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      777222LR
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      Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

      Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:36 pm

      DL used to run ATL-TUL-OKC-SLC and back on 732’s. I think it was twice per day. At one point, I believe Comair had a CRJ running OKC-TUL 2x daily. If my memory serves me correctly it would fly CVG-OKC in the morning, fly two flights between OKC-TUL and head back to CVG in the evening. I may be completely off but for some reason I’m reminded of it.


      I remember the ATL-TUL-OKC route. I've flown it, back in the late 80's (I think). Took like 15 min gear up gear down.
       
      Cubsrule
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      Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

      Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:00 pm

      jplatts wrote:
      9w748capt wrote:
        DDR wrote:
        Would love to see someone start TUL-OKC just for connections. I know it’s short distance but it could be part of through service on some routes.


        Yeah, I can't see that happening. There's no way the economics of such a route would make sense.


        HNL-KOA, HNL-LIH, and OGG-KOA are the only WN nonstop routes that are shorter than OKC-TUL, but these three routes are between Hawaiian destinations.

        While MDW-GRR is only 26 miles longer than OKC-TUL, WN can make MDW-GRR nonstop service work due to WN having a much bigger presence at MDW and due to WN being able to offer connections to most of its domestic connections from GRR at MDW.

        Most of the destinations that passengers in OKC and TUL would be connecting to on WN already either (a) have nonstop service out of both OKC and TUL on WN or (b) have 1-stop connecting options from both OKC and TUL through airports outside of Oklahoma on WN. The same is true for passengers connecting to domestic or international destinations from OKC or TUL on AA, UA, and DL.

        There are some nonstop routes that could be added by US3 carriers out of TUL, including TUL-MIA/LGA/PHL/PHX on AA, TUL-BOS/DTW/LAX/SEA on DL, and TUL-EWR/SFO/IAD on UA.

        There are also a few more nonstop routes that could be added by DL out of OKC such as OKC-BOS/LAX/LGA/SEA.


        TUL-OKC has a lovely road that runs directly between the two. MDW-GRR has a 700 foot deep lake in the way. In that regard, it’s much more like the interisland routes in Hawaii than something like TUL-OKC or SNA-BUR.
        I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
         
        rojo
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:30 am

        alasizon wrote:
        TUL-PHL/PHX/MIA are more likely before we get to LGA from TUL in my opinion.


        AA operated a MIA-TUL non-stop flight for years on Saturdays. Used to be a good non rev escape route after coming back from a caribbean cruise when all flights to DFW were full
         
        Dominion301
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:18 am

        alasizon wrote:
        LCDFlight wrote:
        MIflyer12 wrote:
        UA was running E145s EWR-OKC not that long ago.

        IMHO, calling 22 flights/day a quasi-focus city is pretty generous. You'd have 150+ focus cities by DL/AA/UA/WN with such a low threshold.


        In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.


        Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

        These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.


        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.
         
        OKCDCA
        Topic Author
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 am

        Dominion301 wrote:
        alasizon wrote:
        LCDFlight wrote:

        In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.


        Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

        These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.


        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.

        If AA really wanted to fire a shot in OKC, they’d launch OKC-HOU 2-3x daily and OKC-MAF with a morning departure and evening return. I know it’s a long shot based on AA’s business model. They’re already winning over the oilfield traffic who don’t want to fly OKC-HOU/IAH-MAF going through DFW instead with WN vacating OKC-DAL.
         
        malev2012
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:58 pm

        Dominion301 wrote:
        alasizon wrote:
        LCDFlight wrote:

        In the legacy model, anything over say 5 destinations, they are doing some focus city style work there. WN is a whole different model I can't explain.


        Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

        These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.


        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.


        Exactly: AUS has a Club, and service to: LAX, PHX, SJC, DFW, ORD, CLT, MIA, PHL, JFK, BOS, SJD, along with JV flights to LHR on BA. I wouldn't consider Austin a focus city, so I certainly wouldn't consider Oklahoma City to be a focus city.
        Airlines flown: AA, AB, AC, AY, BA, CO, DL, DY, EW, F9, G4, IB, KL, LH, LX, NK, NW, NZ, OS, QF, SN, TP, UA, US, VA, VC, WN, XE
         
        WA707atMSP
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sun Feb 02, 2020 12:40 am

        The Sep 1 1972 OAG shows 15 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x DC-10, 3x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        BN: 1x 727-100
        CO: 1x DC-9-10
        FL: 3x Convair 580
        TW: 3x: 1x 727-200, 2x 727-100

        In July, 1977, there were 18 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x 707, 4x 727-200, 2x 727-100
        BN: 4x: 3x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        FL: 2x Convar 580
        TW: 5x: 2x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100
         
        seat1a
        Posts: 606
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:58 am

        WA707atMSP wrote:
        The Sep 1 1972 OAG shows 15 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x DC-10, 3x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        BN: 1x 727-100
        CO: 1x DC-9-10
        FL: 3x Convair 580
        TW: 3x: 1x 727-200, 2x 727-100

        In July, 1977, there were 18 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x 707, 4x 727-200, 2x 727-100
        BN: 4x: 3x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        FL: 2x Convar 580
        TW: 5x: 2x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100


        A lot of these were tag-on's, (i.e., AA was LAX-OKC-TUL)? While BN's were milk runs across the Midwest, or OKC-TUL-IAD. Just some thoughts.
         
        WA707atMSP
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:10 am

        seat1a wrote:
        WA707atMSP wrote:
        The Sep 1 1972 OAG shows 15 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x DC-10, 3x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        BN: 1x 727-100
        CO: 1x DC-9-10
        FL: 3x Convair 580
        TW: 3x: 1x 727-200, 2x 727-100

        In July, 1977, there were 18 flights a day from OKC to TUL:

        AA: 7x: 1x 707, 4x 727-200, 2x 727-100
        BN: 4x: 3x 727-200, 1x 727-100
        FL: 2x Convar 580
        TW: 5x: 2x 707, 2x 727-200, 1x 727-100


        A lot of these were tag-on's, (i.e., AA was LAX-OKC-TUL)? While BN's were milk runs across the Midwest, or OKC-TUL-IAD. Just some thoughts.


        That's correct. The DC-10 was routed LAX-OKC-TUL, and one of the 707s was flying MEX-DAL-OKC-TUL. Some of the other AA flights were DAL-OKC-TUL-ORD.
         
        pmanni1
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:26 pm

        OKCDCA wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:
        alasizon wrote:

        Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

        These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.


        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.

        If AA really wanted to fire a shot in OKC, they’d launch OKC-HOU 2-3x daily and OKC-MAF with a morning departure and evening return. I know it’s a long shot based on AA’s business model. They’re already winning over the oilfield traffic who don’t want to fly OKC-HOU/IAH-MAF going through DFW instead with WN vacating OKC-DAL.

        No way could OKC support 3 carriers to Houston and no way would AA overfly DFW for a nonstop to MAF.
         
        LCDFlight
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:15 pm

        malev2012 wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:
        alasizon wrote:

        Five destinations is a little low because by that extent a lot of the country that has service to ORD, DFW, CLT, and PHL along with DCA, LGA or MIA would be considered a focus city.

        These stations (i.e. OKC, RIC. CHS) are just important mid-size spoke cities for the network.


        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.


        Exactly: AUS has a Club, and service to: LAX, PHX, SJC, DFW, ORD, CLT, MIA, PHL, JFK, BOS, SJD, along with JV flights to LHR on BA. I wouldn't consider Austin a focus city, so I certainly wouldn't consider Oklahoma City to be a focus city.


        I was trying to talk about something different & used the word focus city, which already means something else.

        Surely there is something between "spoke without a thought as to FF experience in that city" and "full-on mini hub focus city." I suspect AA is hoping for some network effect in cities where it serves LAX, NYC, DCA, ORD, DFW, MIA in addition to its connect-heavy hubs. MSP is an example where AA has a fairly big assortment of destinations.
         
        Dominion301
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        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:31 am

        LCDFlight wrote:
        malev2012 wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:

        Really a station needs more than service to just hubs for it to be a focus city. BOS is a focus city for AA, with AA after years of neglect, turning focus back towards BOS.


        Exactly: AUS has a Club, and service to: LAX, PHX, SJC, DFW, ORD, CLT, MIA, PHL, JFK, BOS, SJD, along with JV flights to LHR on BA. I wouldn't consider Austin a focus city, so I certainly wouldn't consider Oklahoma City to be a focus city.


        I was trying to talk about something different & used the word focus city, which already means something else.

        Surely there is something between "spoke without a thought as to FF experience in that city" and "full-on mini hub focus city." I suspect AA is hoping for some network effect in cities where it serves LAX, NYC, DCA, ORD, DFW, MIA in addition to its connect-heavy hubs. MSP is an example where AA has a fairly big assortment of destinations.


        That would be more along the lines of a large outstation. A focus city is pretty much a non-hub with a lot of flights that aren’t banked, but where given the number of flights allows for 5 to 25% of that station’s traffic to be connecting.

        Take Air Canada for example:
        -Their big three hubs are YYZ, YUL and YVR. YYC is a secondary hub where probably 1/3 of AC’s traffic is connecting.
        -Then you have YHZ, YOW and YEG that are all large stations with 50 to 60 daily departures each, but where the flights aren’t banked. However, given the large number of departures, it’s inevitable that a certain percentage of the airline’s pax are connecting, which may also include connections to Star Alliance partner UA, or in the case of YOW seasonally to/from LH too. Those are AC’s primary non-hub focus cities.
        -YWG, YQB and YYT would be secondary focus cities that also provide for some connections as they’re in the 20 to 35 departures per day range and all have a few non-hub destinations and a few connecting possibilities.
        -YYJ is about AC’s only example of a large outstation for AC. 15 to 20 flights per day, but nobody really ever connects there and YYJ only has service (currently-used to have YEG) to AC’s hubs. YLW sort of fits the bill too for a large outstation but has fewer flights than YYJ and also has seasonal non-hub YEG service.

        YYR (Goose Bay) is a really weird one for AC by network carrier standards. Service to 5 destinations, but not a single flight to a hub, only outstations and focus cities. UA in the South Pacific is probably the only similar US example to that...if you don’t consider GUM to be a hub. Even in Alaska, every AS town has a direct link to ANC.

        Hope that clarifies what constitutes a focus city vs a hub vs a large outstation.
        Last edited by Dominion301 on Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
         
        dstblj52
        Posts: 452
        Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:47 am

        Dominion301 wrote:

        That would be more along the lines of a large outstation. A focus city is pretty much a non-hub with a lot of flights that aren’t banked, but where given the number of flights allows for 5 to 25% of that station’s traffic to be connecting.

        Take Air Canada for example:
        -Their big three hubs are YYZ, YUL and YVR. YYC is a secondary hub where probably 1/3 of AC’s traffic is connecting.
        -Then you have YHZ, YOW and YEG that are all large stations with 50 to 60 daily departures each, but where the flights aren’t banked. However, given the large number of departures, it’s inevitable that a certain percentage of the airline’s pax are connecting, which may also include connections to Star Alliance partner UA, or in the case of YOW seasonally to/from LH too. Those are AC’s primary non-hub focus cities.
        -YWG, YQB and YYT would be secondary focus cities that also provide for some connections as they’re in the 20 to 35 departures per day range and all have a few non-hub destinations and a few connecting possibilities.
        -YYJ is about AC’s only example of a large outstation for AC. 15 to 20 flights per day, but nobody really ever connects there and YYJ only has service (currently-used to have YEG) to AC’s hubs. YLW sort of fits the bill too for a large outstation but has fewer flights than YYJ and also has seasonal non-hub YEG service.

        YYR (Goose Bay) is a really weird one for AC by network carrier standards. Service to 5 destinations, but not a single flight to a hub, only outstations and focus cities. UA in the South Pacific is probably the only similar US example to that...if you don’t consider GUM to be a hub.

        Hope that clarifies what constitutes a focus city vs a hub vs a large outstation.

        Whose definition are you using? Because there does not seem to be an industry standard definition
         
        Dominion301
        Posts: 2809
        Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:53 am

        dstblj52 wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:

        That would be more along the lines of a large outstation. A focus city is pretty much a non-hub with a lot of flights that aren’t banked, but where given the number of flights allows for 5 to 25% of that station’s traffic to be connecting.

        Take Air Canada for example:
        -Their big three hubs are YYZ, YUL and YVR. YYC is a secondary hub where probably 1/3 of AC’s traffic is connecting.
        -Then you have YHZ, YOW and YEG that are all large stations with 50 to 60 daily departures each, but where the flights aren’t banked. However, given the large number of departures, it’s inevitable that a certain percentage of the airline’s pax are connecting, which may also include connections to Star Alliance partner UA, or in the case of YOW seasonally to/from LH too. Those are AC’s primary non-hub focus cities.
        -YWG, YQB and YYT would be secondary focus cities that also provide for some connections as they’re in the 20 to 35 departures per day range and all have a few non-hub destinations and a few connecting possibilities.
        -YYJ is about AC’s only example of a large outstation for AC. 15 to 20 flights per day, but nobody really ever connects there and YYJ only has service (currently-used to have YEG) to AC’s hubs. YLW sort of fits the bill too for a large outstation but has fewer flights than YYJ and also has seasonal non-hub YEG service.

        YYR (Goose Bay) is a really weird one for AC by network carrier standards. Service to 5 destinations, but not a single flight to a hub, only outstations and focus cities. UA in the South Pacific is probably the only similar US example to that...if you don’t consider GUM to be a hub.

        Hope that clarifies what constitutes a focus city vs a hub vs a large outstation.

        Whose definition are you using? Because there does not seem to be an industry standard definition


        No one in particular, but based on what’s generally considered a focus city, both in “the biz” and by others here on a.net. A station that is only linked to hubs and where connecting traffic doesn’t factor into the equation, is a large outstation, not a focus city.
         
        dstblj52
        Posts: 452
        Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:51 am

        Dominion301 wrote:
        dstblj52 wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:

        That would be more along the lines of a large outstation. A focus city is pretty much a non-hub with a lot of flights that aren’t banked, but where given the number of flights allows for 5 to 25% of that station’s traffic to be connecting.

        Take Air Canada for example:
        -Their big three hubs are YYZ, YUL and YVR. YYC is a secondary hub where probably 1/3 of AC’s traffic is connecting.
        -Then you have YHZ, YOW and YEG that are all large stations with 50 to 60 daily departures each, but where the flights aren’t banked. However, given the large number of departures, it’s inevitable that a certain percentage of the airline’s pax are connecting, which may also include connections to Star Alliance partner UA, or in the case of YOW seasonally to/from LH too. Those are AC’s primary non-hub focus cities.
        -YWG, YQB and YYT would be secondary focus cities that also provide for some connections as they’re in the 20 to 35 departures per day range and all have a few non-hub destinations and a few connecting possibilities.
        -YYJ is about AC’s only example of a large outstation for AC. 15 to 20 flights per day, but nobody really ever connects there and YYJ only has service (currently-used to have YEG) to AC’s hubs. YLW sort of fits the bill too for a large outstation but has fewer flights than YYJ and also has seasonal non-hub YEG service.

        YYR (Goose Bay) is a really weird one for AC by network carrier standards. Service to 5 destinations, but not a single flight to a hub, only outstations and focus cities. UA in the South Pacific is probably the only similar US example to that...if you don’t consider GUM to be a hub.

        Hope that clarifies what constitutes a focus city vs a hub vs a large outstation.

        Whose definition are you using? Because there does not seem to be an industry standard definition


        No one in particular, but based on what’s generally considered a focus city, both in “the biz” and by others here on a.net. A station that is only linked to hubs and where connecting traffic doesn’t factor into the equation, is a large outstation, not a focus city.

        It seems to depend on the company and the press briefing for example, but different carriers seem to have wildly varying definitions from a city we are focusing on, to mini-hub, with several using PtP routes as the marker, but you should be careful having a really tightly defined definition of a focus city.
         
        Chuska
        Posts: 330
        Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 4:59 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:10 am

        OKC-LGA: AA is now reigniting this route that TWA did way back in the 1970's. Those OAG's from 1972 and 1977 would show it.
         
        WA707atMSP
        Posts: 1906
        Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:29 pm

        Chuska wrote:
        OKC-LGA: AA is now reigniting this route that TWA did way back in the 1970's. Those OAG's from 1972 and 1977 would show it.


        The Sep 1972 OAG shows TW 170 lv OKC 12:10 PM, arrive LGA 3:59 PM, operated by a 727-100. This flight originated in PHX, and stopped in ABQ and OKC. American, TWA, and Braniff operated 7 multi stop flights between OKC and New York City.

        The July 1977 OAG still shows TWA 170, retimed to leave OKC 12:45 and arrive LGA 4:40, with a 727-100. The flight still was routed PHX-ABQ-OKC-LGA.

        There were numerous multi stop flights, including a Braniff 727-200 that made FIVE stops: The route of Braniff 118 was DFW-OKC-TUL-FSM-LIT-MEM-BNA-JFK. Wouldn't that have been a fun flight to take - getting to enjoy five takeoffs and landings, instead of just one :-)
         
        Dominion301
        Posts: 2809
        Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

        Re: AA Launching OKC-LGA

        Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:34 pm

        dstblj52 wrote:
        Dominion301 wrote:
        dstblj52 wrote:
        Whose definition are you using? Because there does not seem to be an industry standard definition


        No one in particular, but based on what’s generally considered a focus city, both in “the biz” and by others here on a.net. A station that is only linked to hubs and where connecting traffic doesn’t factor into the equation, is a large outstation, not a focus city.

        It seems to depend on the company and the press briefing for example, but different carriers seem to have wildly varying definitions from a city we are focusing on, to mini-hub, with several using PtP routes as the marker, but you should be careful having a really tightly defined definition of a focus city.


        "Be careful"...why? It's not like trying to come up with the definition of a focus city is some kind of life-altering/threatening/security risk. However, knowing your city is not a focus city, but a large outstation for airline XX could be ego deflating I suppose. :white:

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