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Razza92
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:39 am

AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:49 pm

It has just been announced today that the FQTV partnership between AF, KL, VS & DL officially starts on the 13 February, meaning that frequent flyers of the 4 airlines can 'earn and burn' their miles on the newest addition to the JV - VIrgin Atlantic.

This is good news for those who are VS Flying Club members, as you can now earn/use your miles on any AF/KL flight - whereas previously you could only do it on AF/KL codeshare flights.

Also good news for AF/KL Flying Blue members as you can now earn/use miles on VS operated flights.

https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... nched.html
A300, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A359, A380, AT72, B717, B733, B737, B738, B739, B748, B752, B763, B772, B773, B77W, B789, DC10, DH8D, E145, E170, E195, F70, F100
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:57 pm

Large majority of AF/KL flying blues fly out of AMS/CDG so I don't see that much of a benefit for them as they can get non-stop from either CDG/AMS to all of VS destinations out of the UK. On the other side, FlyingBlue members based in other continental Europe countries -like myself- can't take advantage of VS as they don't have a short-haul network.

DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
x1234
Posts: 832
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:04 pm

At this point I don’t understand why VS won’t join SkyTeam.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7762
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:23 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


DL miles have been redeemable for VS flights (2014?) and upgrades (2017) for years.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:54 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


DL miles have been redeemable for VS flights (2014?) and upgrades (2017) for years.


So then VS FF base who will get the benefit as they will earn and redeem in the much larger AF/KL network.
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
Razza92
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:39 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:01 pm

I think this is more of a win for UK based FF's as VS FF's can now earn miles on AF/KL flights east and west, as well as AF/KL FF's based in the UK can use VS to go west and earn mileage that way.
A300, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A359, A380, AT72, B717, B733, B737, B738, B739, B748, B752, B763, B772, B773, B77W, B789, DC10, DH8D, E145, E170, E195, F70, F100
 
Razza92
Topic Author
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:39 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:05 pm

On another note, being a UK based VS, DL & Flying Blue card holder - I'm now in a position of not knowing which airline to accredit my mileage to? Any suggestions as to which one i should stick to or sway towards. The only thing that puts me off Flying Blue is the fact the mileage expires, where as DL doesn't, and i can retain my mileage on VS by using their 'shops away' online portal to earn some miles to keep the account active.
A300, A320, A32N, A321, A332, A333, A359, A380, AT72, B717, B733, B737, B738, B739, B748, B752, B763, B772, B773, B77W, B789, DC10, DH8D, E145, E170, E195, F70, F100
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3170
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:07 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
I don't see that much of a benefit for them as they can get non-stop from either CDG/AMS to all of VS destinations out of the UK.

DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


On the first point ....Vegas says hi

On the second, totally agree.
 
Flanker7
Posts: 462
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:38 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:22 pm

Razza92 wrote:
On another note, being a UK based VS, DL & Flying Blue card holder - I'm now in a position of not knowing which airline to accredit my mileage to? Any suggestions as to which one i should stick to or sway towards. The only thing that puts me off Flying Blue is the fact the mileage expires, where as DL doesn't, and i can retain my mileage on VS by using their 'shops away' online portal to earn some miles to keep the account active.

You can always make a small purchase of miles to extend the account
Flying blue only if possible
 
umichman
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


DL miles have been redeemable for VS flights (2014?) and upgrades (2017) for years.


There's currently a corner case where DL Skymiles members don't earn any miles on KL/AF-coded, VS operated flights (due to VS not being a Skyteam member). Presumably this change will address that.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:27 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
I don't see that much of a benefit for them as they can get non-stop from either CDG/AMS to all of VS destinations out of the UK.

DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


On the first point ....Vegas says hi

On the second, totally agree.



Missed Vegas....how comes? LOL
748,744,742,741,772,773,762,763,
764, 789, 732,733,735,737,738,739,
752, 722, 717,74M,DC10,DC9,M82,
M83, M87, M88,310,319,320,321,332,
333, 343, 346,359,388,L1011,CR2,
CR7, CR9,CRK, E175,E190,ATR42,
DSH8, CS1,CS3
 
User avatar
FlyRow
Posts: 842
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:05 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:30 pm

x1234 wrote:
At this point I don’t understand why VS won’t join SkyTeam.

Because it offers no extra benefits for them comparing it to this deal. They are defacto skyteam without paying or having the hassle of being a alliance member.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
FSDan
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:22 pm

upperdeckfan wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
I don't see that much of a benefit for them as they can get non-stop from either CDG/AMS to all of VS destinations out of the UK.

DL and VS FF's are the ones who will get most of the benefit on this deal.


On the first point ....Vegas says hi

On the second, totally agree.



Missed Vegas....how comes? LOL


KL actually flies AMS-LAS, but I believe it's summer-only and something like 3x weekly.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:25 pm

x1234 wrote:
At this point I don’t understand why VS won’t join SkyTeam.


It seems airlines are more and more often going outside alliances to build partnerships. Look at the various airlines that are closest with DL (either via a JV or an ownership stake):

WS
AM - SkyTeam
LA
VS
AF - SkyTeam
KL - SkyTeam
KE - SkyTeam
MU - SkyTeam
VA

Only just over half are in SkyTeam, and there's been no indication that WS, LA, VS, or VA plan to join.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:44 pm

FSDan wrote:
x1234 wrote:
At this point I don’t understand why VS won’t join SkyTeam.


It seems airlines are more and more often going outside alliances to build partnerships. Look at the various airlines that are closest with DL (either via a JV or an ownership stake):

WS
AM - SkyTeam
LA
VS
AF - SkyTeam
KL - SkyTeam
KE - SkyTeam
MU - SkyTeam
VA

Only just over half are in SkyTeam, and there's been no indication that WS, LA, VS, or VA plan to join.


It’s an interesting case study — alliances vs JV vs ownership stakes.

While all three of the US3 have JV’s, Delta seems most aggressive from an equity stake perspective. I wonder if AA and UA have similar experiences with the success (or lack of) of oneworld and Star Alliance.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3669
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:50 pm

How long until LA join up?
come visit the south pacific
 
FSDan
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:06 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
How long until LA join up?


They said themselves when they announced they're leaving OneWorld that they don't plan to join SkyTeam.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:18 pm

questions wrote:
While all three of the US3 have JV’s, Delta seems most aggressive from an equity stake perspective. I wonder if AA and UA have similar experiences with the success (or lack of) of oneworld and Star Alliance.


I think UA and AA probably have had similar experiences. UA is close with some SA members (mostly the ones they have JVs with - AC, LH Group, NH, NZ), but at the same time hasn't really cooperated very extensively with SQ, OZ, SK, etc., even though those airlines have a decent presence in the U.S. market.

AA is deepening ties with CZ, which did leave SkyTeam but hasn't announced that they'll be joining OneWorld. They've had a hot and cold (mostly cold) relationship with fellow OneWorld member QR. Similar to United, their real cooperation focus has been with their JBA partners - BA/IB/AY, JL, and QF.

What we haven't seen UA and AA do yet that DL has done is form a JV with a non-alliance partner (and AA+CZ couldn't form a JV even if they wanted to due to the U.S.-China bilaterals).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3669
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:52 pm

FSDan wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
How long until LA join up?


They said themselves when they announced they're leaving OneWorld that they don't plan to join SkyTeam.


I meant to the new FQTV partnership.
come visit the south pacific
 
winginit
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:45 am

x1234 wrote:
At this point I don’t understand why VS won’t join SkyTeam.


Is the better question not why DL AF KL shouldn't ditch SkyTeam? Being in those alliances isn't cheap, and it's clear as day that there are virtually no commercial benefits of being in the alliance that can't be gathered outside of it. The alliance model is surely in it's waning years.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 583
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:48 am

If I fly VS with a VS ticket and enter my Flying Blue account number, do I get XPs or miles only? Not clear from the announcement.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2663
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:42 am

FSDan wrote:
upperdeckfan wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:

On the first point ....Vegas says hi

On the second, totally agree.



Missed Vegas....how comes? LOL


KL actually flies AMS-LAS, but I believe it's summer-only and something like 3x weekly.


Negative...KLM is year around at LAS.
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: AF KL VS DL - FQTV Partnership Fully Commences 13Feb20

Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:08 am

Razza92 wrote:
It has just been announced today that the FQTV partnership between AF, KL, VS & DL officially starts on the 13 February, meaning that frequent flyers of the 4 airlines can 'earn and burn' their miles on the newest addition to the JV - VIrgin Atlantic.

This is good news for those who are VS Flying Club members, as you can now earn/use your miles on any AF/KL flight - whereas previously you could only do it on AF/KL codeshare flights.

Also good news for AF/KL Flying Blue members as you can now earn/use miles on VS operated flights.

https://corporate.virginatlantic.com/gb ... nched.html


This is interesting because Delta pilot contracts negotiating is this year, and one of the major grips were route outsourcing through partnerships.

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