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Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:16 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
QR seems to have the weirdest fleet strategy where they tend to order the next, cool "shiny things" that Airbus and Boeing offer, even if it results in a mongrel fleet. They have a mind-boggling, 234-aircraft fleet, consisting of 7 different aircraft families, from 2 different manufacturers, all to serve a single-hub operation. And this does not include their 737MAX orders from their failed investment in (now-defunct) Air Italy.

Perhaps QR does need to step back from signing-up to the flashy air show orders and take a serious look at rationalizing their fleet? I think both manufacturers and QR will work out a compromise to restructure their open orders, but behind closed doors.

I think QR and Boeing is also heavily supported by trade between the US and Qatar more so than actual physical aircraft needs.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:26 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
If they already have a 779 in production, what happens to the completed frame?

The earliest Boeing will deliver any 77x is 2021 ( ref: https://onemileatatime.com/boeing-777x-delivery-delay/ ).
If QR doesn't want it till 2022 then I'd suggest it'll just get stored till then.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:37 pm

Just for the record, Qatar is currently in the process of accepting 2 new A350s. Both planes can be seen at Airbus' delivery centre in Toulouse.

Image
https://twitter.com/THOFBOSS/status/1273637329455001601
 
ewt340
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:39 pm

Opus99 wrote:
chiad wrote:
oschkosch wrote:

How much does this hurt the entire 777X business case?


IMO ... Very hard!
I expect 2/3 of the backlog to vanish.

Actually no. In the long run not very much. It would be stupid to cancel those orders because in 4/5 years time when your actual replacement cycle for the 77W comes they will have nothing. The truth is, this was the right thing to do. Qatar does not need The 777X now or even in 2 years. Pushing the order book as far as 8-10 years is very appropriate with some 777X coming in 2030. Let’s not forget qatar has some 777-300er that came in 2018 so I don’t know why they needed this now. And I’m sure they were also aware that they didn’t. In 2022/23 they can get some in to replace their A380 as Akbar said is their plan once the aircraft turns 10, I’ve brought in 2 years closer because of covid.


I would expect them to get canceled or at least reduced. They might be able to replace them with A350-1000 rather than taking B777X. It would be better for them to convert them to B787. It's a lower risk purchase.

It's not like they have to have 1:1 replacement for every aircraft. It's not uncommon for airlines to replace larger aircraft with a slightly smaller one.
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pm

ewt340 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
chiad wrote:

IMO ... Very hard!
I expect 2/3 of the backlog to vanish.

Actually no. In the long run not very much. It would be stupid to cancel those orders because in 4/5 years time when your actual replacement cycle for the 77W comes they will have nothing. The truth is, this was the right thing to do. Qatar does not need The 777X now or even in 2 years. Pushing the order book as far as 8-10 years is very appropriate with some 777X coming in 2030. Let’s not forget qatar has some 777-300er that came in 2018 so I don’t know why they needed this now. And I’m sure they were also aware that they didn’t. In 2022/23 they can get some in to replace their A380 as Akbar said is their plan once the aircraft turns 10, I’ve brought in 2 years closer because of covid.


I would expect them to get canceled or at least reduced. They might be able to replace them with A350-1000 rather than taking B777X. It would be better for them to convert them to B787. It's a lower risk purchase.

It's not like they have to have 1:1 replacement for every aircraft. It's not uncommon for airlines to replace larger aircraft with a slightly smaller one.

Only time will tell
 
DCA350
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:50 pm

Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:33 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.

Depends on how you look at it. They have 48 77Ws and 10 77Ls they’ve ordered 50 779s and 10 778s. So if it’s a replacement program then they haven’t. If it’s an expansion program then they have. We know it’s a replacement program because as I think established in another thread QR keeps planes for about 10-15 years and then retirés them
 
DCA350
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:45 pm

Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.

Depends on how you look at it. They have 48 77Ws and 10 77Ls they’ve ordered 50 779s and 10 778s. So if it’s a replacement program then they haven’t. If it’s an expansion program then they have. We know it’s a replacement program because as I think established in another thread QR keeps planes for about 10-15 years and then retirés them


In a vacuum yes but your not accounting for the nearly 40 A350Ks they have on order which are essentially the same size at the 777Ws. So many of the 777Xs were marked for expansion.
 
guillermohs
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:01 pm

Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.

Depends on how you look at it. They have 48 77Ws and 10 77Ls they’ve ordered 50 779s and 10 778s. So if it’s a replacement program then they haven’t. If it’s an expansion program then they have. We know it’s a replacement program because as I think established in another thread QR keeps planes for about 10-15 years and then retirés them


The fact that the 779 is larger than the 77W makes it an unsuitable replacement in many routes, considering the reduction in demand for the next few years.

Still, the 777X has room in Qatar's diverse fleet: replacing the A380 and in trunk routes where there is still enough demand. The problem is they don't need it anytime soon, since the fleet of 77W is not that old and many routes are not coming back for at least several months.

The order of 60 77X was certainly made for the future replacement of 77W, but with such a big order expansion was an inevitable and desired consequence. ME3 had excessively ambitious plans for growth and even before COVD-19 crisis that was clear as day.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:49 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.


https://www.planespotters.net/operators ... /787-9?p=9

Qatar has 7 B789's that were delivered in December 2019 and have not yet been put into revenue service. There is one more finished B789 that is sitting on the flight line at PAE since March waiting for Qatar to take delivery. The 7 aircraft making up the December 2019 deliveries had been stored at VCV until May, then they were sent to Doha where they were put back into storage there. It is true that the pandemic impacted Qatar's plans for these birds, but I wonder if they were just another "shiny thing" they ordered that they really did not need?

One of the reasons that Qatar is getting cold feet over taking the B779's is that their purchase plan called for moving on their relatively low-time B77W's to the 2nd-hand market for premium prices. The pandemic ruined that plan, at least for the next couple of years.
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:09 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.

Depends on how you look at it. They have 48 77Ws and 10 77Ls they’ve ordered 50 779s and 10 778s. So if it’s a replacement program then they haven’t. If it’s an expansion program then they have. We know it’s a replacement program because as I think established in another thread QR keeps planes for about 10-15 years and then retirés them


In a vacuum yes but your not accounting for the nearly 40 A350Ks they have on order which are essentially the same size at the 777Ws. So many of the 777Xs were marked for expansion.

That’s a good point with regards to the A35Ks. So yeah you could look at them that way. I also strongly believe a lot of Qatar’s orders with Boeing don’t necessarily relate to their operational needs. Some are also to fulfil trade agreements between the US & Qatar and things like that
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:24 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
One of the reasons that Qatar is getting cold feet over taking the B779's is that their purchase plan called for moving on their relatively low-time B77W's to the 2nd-hand market for premium prices. The pandemic ruined that plan, at least for the next couple of years.

This is a fair argument. The number of 777-300ERs available is far more than supply. The 777-300ERSF is not ready yet to absorb capacity and then will select lower price candidates in good condition.

QR will stall in their fleet turnover plans.

Lightsaber
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:22 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Qatar has 7 B789's that were delivered in December 2019 and have not yet been put into revenue service. There is one more finished B789 that is sitting on the flight line at PAE since March waiting for Qatar to take delivery. The 7 aircraft making up the December 2019 deliveries had been stored at VCV until May, then they were sent to Doha where they were put back into storage there. It is true that the pandemic impacted Qatar's plans for these birds, but I wonder if they were just another "shiny thing" they ordered that they really did not need?


Was lucky enough to see 4 of those 789s (along with a UPS 748 (maintenance) and a FedEx A310F (retirement)) fly in on one day. Those Qatari birds flew to VCV for Q Suite installation, not storage due to COVID. They were then ferried to the old Doha airport (after Q Suite installation) where they are currently being stored. I do not know what they’ll do with the Qatar 789 currently sitting at PAE, possibly ferrying to a dedicated storage site as they said they wouldn’t take delivery of new aircraft, but not 100% sure.

EDIT: I think I read you’re post too fast, yes the plans were impacted by COVID, not that they were stored because of it. The original plan was for the 788s to go to Air Italy and the 789s to stay with Qatar, filling in as the 788s left. A332s were supposed to leave Air Italy. All that’s now been radically changed.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:52 pm

Is there any confirmation Airbus or Boeing agreed to these delays?

Lightsaber
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
One of the reasons that Qatar is getting cold feet over taking the B779's is that their purchase plan called for moving on their relatively low-time B77W's to the 2nd-hand market for premium prices. The pandemic ruined that plan, at least for the next couple of years.



This is a fair argument. The number of 777-300ERs available is far more than supply. The 777-300ERSF is not ready yet to absorb capacity and then will select lower price candidates in good condition.

QR will stall in their fleet turnover plans.

Lightsaber



This statement makes no sense. Do you mean the supply available is more than demand for them? Or that the supply available is less than the demand?
 
Mboyle1988
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:33 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
United1 wrote:

...Ladies and Gentlemen I'd like to welcome you aboard the newest member of the Qatar Airways fleet the Sukhoi Superjet 100 with 15 stop service to JFK..:)

AAB doesn't seem to understand there are only two aircraft manufacturers producing aircraft capable of operating in his network. While playing Boeing and Airbus off each other is a viable negotiating strategy this doesn't seem to be the best way to start off productive talks.


Except, sales do not work that way, ABB calls airbus and Boeing and says "We would like to order 50 widebodies" neither of the manufacturers are going to say "No, we don't want your business".


Except they can say that if they want because A & B are not two-a-penny office stationary suppliers. They are the only two duopolistic producers on the planet and QR is just one of many customers, and not a very good one at that. 100% cash upfront and list price + X% are the only way they would gt their hands on air frames, A & B hold the cards, not QR.


What I don't get is why AAB thinks he's in any position of strength. It's not like Qatar will allow the airline to fail and has the pockets so why have so much bother? AAB could just do the decent thing and come to a workable solution against the giants. Also this could get geopolitical. Sure people want Qatari gas, but it goes two ways in life, Qatar is expected to buy European and American planes amongst other imports. That's how the relationship goes. The government of Qatar could find itself getting the cold shoulder diplomatically very quickly when the economic impact starts to take toll, and not just QR losing 3rd and 4th freedom rights. We know Germany and others have had strong reservations about opening up to QR, this won't help the cause.


Always remember the golden rule. He with the gold rules.
 
jagraham
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:11 am

Revelation wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
United1 wrote:
AAB doesn't seem to understand there are only two aircraft manufacturers producing aircraft capable of operating in his network. While playing Boeing and Airbus off each other is a viable negotiating strategy this doesn't seem to be the best way to start off productive talks.

Except, sales do not work that way, ABB calls airbus and Boeing and says "We would like to order 50 widebodies" neither of the manufacturers are going to say "No, we don't want your business".

But there are exceptions to the exceptions. FR and MOL complain Airbus doesn't compete for their orders, apparently a bridge has been burned. IB seems to be personna non grata with Boeing after apparently accepting a bid on A340s that Boeing thought it had secured with 777s. There's a link in our IB A346 retirement thread on that. Seems IB won the battle but lost the war.

There seems to be a limit on how hard you can play the game. Complaining about carpeting is one thing, refusing to take years worth of orders is a big step up from that. We may be witnessing AAB crossing the line.


The IB story is key here. Of course A and B will sell AAB more planes when he wants them. But at what terms? AAB can burn them both now, then pay list for whatever he wants for the foreseeable future.
 
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qf789
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:32 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Qatar has 7 B789's that were delivered in December 2019 and have not yet been put into revenue service. There is one more finished B789 that is sitting on the flight line at PAE since March waiting for Qatar to take delivery. The 7 aircraft making up the December 2019 deliveries had been stored at VCV until May, then they were sent to Doha where they were put back into storage there. It is true that the pandemic impacted Qatar's plans for these birds, but I wonder if they were just another "shiny thing" they ordered that they really did not need?


Was lucky enough to see 4 of those 789s (along with a UPS 748 (maintenance) and a FedEx A310F (retirement)) fly in on one day. Those Qatari birds flew to VCV for Q Suite installation, not storage due to COVID. They were then ferried to the old Doha airport (after Q Suite installation) where they are currently being stored. I do not know what they’ll do with the Qatar 789 currently sitting at PAE, possibly ferrying to a dedicated storage site as they said they wouldn’t take delivery of new aircraft, but not 100% sure.

EDIT: I think I read you’re post too fast, yes the plans were impacted by COVID, not that they were stored because of it. The original plan was for the 788s to go to Air Italy and the 789s to stay with Qatar, filling in as the 788s left. A332s were supposed to leave Air Italy. All that’s now been radically changed.


There is also another QR 789 undergoing final assembly and another about to enter final assembly in the next week or so
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:38 am

qf789 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Qatar has 7 B789's that were delivered in December 2019 and have not yet been put into revenue service. There is one more finished B789 that is sitting on the flight line at PAE since March waiting for Qatar to take delivery. The 7 aircraft making up the December 2019 deliveries had been stored at VCV until May, then they were sent to Doha where they were put back into storage there. It is true that the pandemic impacted Qatar's plans for these birds, but I wonder if they were just another "shiny thing" they ordered that they really did not need?


Was lucky enough to see 4 of those 789s (along with a UPS 748 (maintenance) and a FedEx A310F (retirement)) fly in on one day. Those Qatari birds flew to VCV for Q Suite installation, not storage due to COVID. They were then ferried to the old Doha airport (after Q Suite installation) where they are currently being stored. I do not know what they’ll do with the Qatar 789 currently sitting at PAE, possibly ferrying to a dedicated storage site as they said they wouldn’t take delivery of new aircraft, but not 100% sure.

EDIT: I think I read you’re post too fast, yes the plans were impacted by COVID, not that they were stored because of it. The original plan was for the 788s to go to Air Italy and the 789s to stay with Qatar, filling in as the 788s left. A332s were supposed to leave Air Italy. All that’s now been radically changed.


There is also another QR 789 undergoing final assembly and another about to enter final assembly in the next week or so


Wow, that means 3 QR 787s with no where to go, and AAB won't 'look good' (at least in his eyes) if he takes those 3 so soon after he stated he wouldn't be taking delivery....this might get interesting.
 
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qf789
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:53 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:

Was lucky enough to see 4 of those 789s (along with a UPS 748 (maintenance) and a FedEx A310F (retirement)) fly in on one day. Those Qatari birds flew to VCV for Q Suite installation, not storage due to COVID. They were then ferried to the old Doha airport (after Q Suite installation) where they are currently being stored. I do not know what they’ll do with the Qatar 789 currently sitting at PAE, possibly ferrying to a dedicated storage site as they said they wouldn’t take delivery of new aircraft, but not 100% sure.

EDIT: I think I read you’re post too fast, yes the plans were impacted by COVID, not that they were stored because of it. The original plan was for the 788s to go to Air Italy and the 789s to stay with Qatar, filling in as the 788s left. A332s were supposed to leave Air Italy. All that’s now been radically changed.


There is also another QR 789 undergoing final assembly and another about to enter final assembly in the next week or so


Wow, that means 3 QR 787s with no where to go, and AAB won't 'look good' (at least in his eyes) if he takes those 3 so soon after he stated he wouldn't be taking delivery....this might get interesting.


Well it gets worse. There are 2 due to enter final assembly in August, 2 in September and 2 in October.

ATM there are 8 A350-1000's at TLS for QR, 2 are ready for delivery, a third has started flight testing while the other 5 have rolled out of final assembly and are in various stages of pre flight prep
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:59 am

qf789 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:
qf789 wrote:

There is also another QR 789 undergoing final assembly and another about to enter final assembly in the next week or so


Wow, that means 3 QR 787s with no where to go, and AAB won't 'look good' (at least in his eyes) if he takes those 3 so soon after he stated he wouldn't be taking delivery....this might get interesting.


Well it gets worse. There are 2 due to enter final assembly in August, 2 in September and 2 in October.

ATM there are 8 A350-1000's at TLS for QR, 2 are ready for delivery, a third has started flight testing while the other 5 have rolled out of final assembly and are in various stages of pre flight prep


Dang, I guess that there is the very good possibility that I may see some more Qatari (787s) at VCV. Although Airbus has storage areas/facilities that they use, one has to wonder what they and Boeing will do with all of the over-flow aircraft. Boeing has MWH, BFI, RNT, PAE (kinda), VCV, SKF, PDX (kinda) for storage. And with the 737MAX, most of those resources have been used up (although VCV has a bit more space now that DL is taking some aircraft out of retirement....).
 
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qf789
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:06 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
VCVSpotter wrote:

Wow, that means 3 QR 787s with no where to go, and AAB won't 'look good' (at least in his eyes) if he takes those 3 so soon after he stated he wouldn't be taking delivery....this might get interesting.


Well it gets worse. There are 2 due to enter final assembly in August, 2 in September and 2 in October.

ATM there are 8 A350-1000's at TLS for QR, 2 are ready for delivery, a third has started flight testing while the other 5 have rolled out of final assembly and are in various stages of pre flight prep


Dang, I guess that there is the very good possibility that I may see some more Qatari (787s) at VCV. Although Airbus has storage areas/facilities that they use, one has to wonder what they and Boeing will do with all of the over-flow aircraft. Boeing has MWH, BFI, RNT, PAE (kinda), VCV, SKF, PDX (kinda) for storage. And with the 737MAX, most of those resources have been used up (although VCV has a bit more space now that DL is taking some aircraft out of retirement....).


There have so far been 4 789's ferried from PAE to CHS for storage (2 Norwegian and 1 Hainan NTU plus 1 Vistara NTU, formerly Hainan NTU) , currently there are 26 787's on the flightline at CHS, 2 788's have been stored at PDX (El Al and Uzbekistan) and there are 19 787's on the flightline at PAE. So by the end of this month there are going to be around 50 787's just between PAE and CHS so its probably a matter of time before 787's end up at places like VCV, would think QR 787's would end there if they arent going to take delivery for a couple of years and probably longer
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:29 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
One of the reasons that Qatar is getting cold feet over taking the B779's is that their purchase plan called for moving on their relatively low-time B77W's to the 2nd-hand market for premium prices. The pandemic ruined that plan, at least for the next couple of years.



This is a fair argument. The number of 777-300ERs available is far more than supply. The 777-300ERSF is not ready yet to absorb capacity and then will select lower price candidates in good condition.

QR will stall in their fleet turnover plans.

Lightsaber



This statement makes no sense. Do you mean the supply available is more than demand for them? Or that the supply available is less than the demand?

Typo, there is too much supply of the 777-300ER. Actually, that is true of all widebodies as many airlines are differing deliveries of new widebodies.

QR had a strategy that relies on a good secondary market for their used aircraft.

In the past, QR received favorable terms as they generally kept their terms. This allowed rapid fleet turnover economically.

Now, good luck selling a used widebody. Any used widebody. The 777-300ERs were due to be rotated out of the fleet. QR won't be able to sell them for what was expected.

I thought the conclusion was obvious in that QR's fleet turnover plans are stalled.

It isn't just QR. The entire aircraft second hand market isn't functioning. Not even the scrapping as suddenly parts demand is down.

This has a long term impact.

Lightsaber
 
Sjtstudios
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:25 pm

DCA350 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
DCA350 wrote:
Imo they have overordered. 60 777Xs was always way too many.. At most they need half that. I expect some to be cancelled and/or converted to 787s.

Depends on how you look at it. They have 48 77Ws and 10 77Ls they’ve ordered 50 779s and 10 778s. So if it’s a replacement program then they haven’t. If it’s an expansion program then they have. We know it’s a replacement program because as I think established in another thread QR keeps planes for about 10-15 years and then retirés them


In a vacuum yes but your not accounting for the nearly 40 A350Ks they have on order which are essentially the same size at the 777Ws. So many of the 777Xs were marked for expansion.


You expand to new routes with smaller aircraft, not larger. Probably why the 787 and a350 do so well... Well, obviously you could increase frequency with two smaller aircraft, but besides that... all Qatar orders are part of the growth model and replacement cycles they operate within. Everything changes, not just the 777x business case.

The 777X is the 777w replacement for an airline like Qatar. More room for premium configurations, same passenger load. Obviously what you want when you’re a hub airline like Qatar. The a350k has the range and efficiency to be the moneymaker on thinner or more competitive routes, but also works as a 1:1 replacement in some circumstances.

If any cancellations occur, it will be spread evenly. Qatar always wants good faith or the upper hand in these circumstances.
 
pugman211
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:07 pm

I thought AAB said that anything that was already in assembly would be taken?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:02 am

Qatar Airways expects to take delivery of its first 777X in 2025.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... irst-class
 
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CraigAnderson
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Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:44 am

Reported today, Qatar CEO says they are working on first class for some B777-9s, it will be a cabin of four suites and fitted only to some 777-9s which will be dedicated to a few routes favoured by wealthy Qatari nationals such as LHR and CDG, so most of the 777X fleet will be only business and economy.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... irst-class
 
chonetsao
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:49 am

Interesting they are not going for Premier Economy route. Even Emirates is considering it.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:53 am

chonetsao wrote:
Interesting they are not going for Premier Economy route. Even Emirates is considering it.


Not considering. Emirates’ first aircraft with Premium Economy is a new A380 that’s “ready to go” at Toulouse.
 
mrkerr7474
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:00 am

Ishrion wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Interesting they are not going for Premier Economy route. Even Emirates is considering it.


Not considering. Emirates’ first aircraft with Premium Economy is a new A380 “ready to go” at Toulouse.


I've often thought that if QR introduced PE, this could potentially take a lot more customers their way. I for one would easily switch to QR as business class isn't always feasible moneywise. Hopefully one day they will look at this
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:06 am

According to AAB his economy is as good as anybody else's premium economy, seriously, he said this at a press conference once!

EK premium economy actually sounds like it could be the best one so far.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:36 am

Ishrion wrote:
Qatar Airways expects to take delivery of its first 777X in 2025.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... irst-class


The article doesn't mention 2025 at all. It says 777X will be delayed until "at least 2022" (which is what this thread is all about). Where are you getting 2025 from?
 
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PM
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:41 am

Sjtstudios wrote:



If any cancellations occur, it will be spread evenly. Qatar always wants good faith or the upper hand in these circumstances.

Obviously. I'm told that "Good Faith" is the nickname Airbus and Boeing have for Mr. Al Baker...
 
Jomar777
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:41 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
According to AAB his economy is as good as anybody else's premium economy, seriously, he said this at a press conference once!

EK premium economy actually sounds like it could be the best one so far.


Never seen anything about the Emirates PE so cannot comment on theirs but, have flown the product on other airlines like BA and AF, I can say that Qatar Airways Economy is not too far off. You struggle to get the food you want even on a full plane (and when it happens they will let you know how sorry they are), the seats are quite spacious and relatively comfortable and the leg room is not that bad.

If they had installed a PE on the moulds of BA, for example, the difference would not be too far off and would occupy plane space which they prefer to fill with passengers doing onward connections.

If Emirates pulls off a winner with theirs, I am sure they will change tack and offer something but till then I do not see them even studying.
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:44 am

scbriml wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Qatar Airways expects to take delivery of its first 777X in 2025.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... irst-class


The article doesn't mention 2025 at all. It says 777X will be delayed until "at least 2022" (which is what this thread is all about). Where are you getting 2025 from?

The author changed the article. It was originally 2025
 
RvA
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:47 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
According to AAB his economy is as good as anybody else's premium economy, seriously, he said this at a press conference once!

EK premium economy actually sounds like it could be the best one so far.


Haha! Although their economy may or may not be better than certain other’s economy there is no way it is as good as premium economy. I have flown AA in PE not that long ago and the seat etc is definitely not what you get in QR in economy.
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:50 am

Makes sense. As I understand their A380’s won’t stay on for much longer and they won’t have a first cabin.

I suppose they will have First on about 10 of the B777-9 to directly replace their A380 fleet.
 
Opus99
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:00 am

The first one is expected to arrive in 2028 because they need time to develop the seat. Hmm this could be interesting. And it will only be 4 seats. So maybe something along the lines of Singapore airlines new suites on the 380?
 
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zkojq
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:06 am

What's the point of announcing something eight years in advance? :roll:
 
Opus99
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:09 am

zkojq wrote:
What's the point of announcing something eight years in advance? :roll:

Reminds me of Lufthansa and their new business class that still isn’t on a single aircraft today
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Some QR B777-9s to get first class

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:52 am

Jomar777 wrote:
Never seen anything about the Emirates PE so cannot comment on theirs but, have flown the product on other airlines like BA and AF, I can say that Qatar Airways Economy is not too far off.


BA premium economy is the pits, maybe the worst out there! There's quite a bit of info out there about EK premium economy, Tim Clark has actually talked about the seat design and pitch and cabin size, having its own washrooms etc, and there are even some photos of a seat which is said to be the one EK has chosen.
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:48 am

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... retirement

AAB says the 777s will be retired over the next 3 to 4 years and will be replaced by the 777-9s it what seems to be a 1 for 1 replacement. The 787-9s will replace the 787-8s and the A330s are all leaving now
 
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FrenchPotatoEye
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:16 am

That's a lots of 777s to send to retirements.

Maybe some will convert for cargo use?
 
DCA350
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:59 am

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qatar-boeing-777-retirement

AAB says the 777s will be retired over the next 3 to 4 years and will be replaced by the 777-9s it what seems to be a 1 for 1 replacement. The 787-9s will replace the 787-8s and the A330s are all leaving now


Well in this case I redact my earlier statement about too many 777Xs on order.. The second hand market is going to be flooded with 777s, I wonder how many will find a second home.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:49 pm

Qatar Airways is planning to retire its massive fleet of more then 50 777s in the next 3 to 4 years.

Qatar Airways will phase out its entire Boeing 777-300ER and 777-200LR fleet by 2024 in favour of new Boeing 777X jets as part of a ‘green modernisation’ push which will also see the last Airbus A380 scuppered by 2028.

“We are very conscious about our emissions and we are very keen to keep on introducing fuel-efficient aeroplanes,” Qatar Airways Group CEO His Excellency Akbar Al Baker tells Executive Traveller.

“We are retiring the entire (Airbus) A330 fleet now, we are retiring all the 777s over the next three to four years, we are retiring the A320 aeroplanes.”

Al Baker also said that the new-for-old swap would see its Boeing 787-9s eventually “replace the 787-8s”, although this is tied to a delayed delivery of the factory-fresh Dreamliners from at least 2022. “We plan to to reduce our emissions and have carbon-neutral growth over a period of time.”


A330 retirement was planned some time ago, but phasing out the 777 fleet is a new piece of information.

The second hand market will be flooded, no?

Qatar to retire all Boeing 777-300ERs “over the next 3-4 years"
 
kaitak
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Re: Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:55 pm

Are they all going to be replaced by the 777X?

Also, they mentioned that they are suspending deliveries of the 787s, but will the -9s they have received recently (after Q suite installment) be put into service?
 
Opus99
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Re: Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:56 pm

kaitak wrote:
Are they all going to be replaced by the 777X?

Also, they mentioned that they are suspending deliveries of the 787s, but will the -9s they have received recently (after Q suite installment) be put into service?

It seems like it yes
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:02 pm

PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded, no?

Understatement. The 777-300ER second hand market just took a step down in value.

We should expect other airlines not to renew leases too. e.g., EK is doing some lease returns.

The timing of the 777-300ERSF is looking more and more brilliant.

No one should be smug on competing products. When this many good longhaul aircraft hit the market, there will be airlines that change plans and buy second hand.

Lightsaber
 
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SEPilot
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Re: Qatar CEO: no new Airbus or Boeing deliveries until 2022

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:04 pm

The entire airline business is in for a very, very hard time for the foreseeable future; how long, nobody knows. It is an industry with intense competition and slim margins even in good times. Not all players are going to survive. Both Airbus and Boeing will out of necessity; the world cannot accept the idea that there will be only one supplier of large airliners, and there is no possibility of anyone else entering the field anytime soon. But as to airlines none are guaranteed. A very good way to be one of the ones that don’t survive is to aggravate both A&B, and AAB seems to be doing his best to do just that. They may both continue to sell to him, but will not give him their best deals or work with him when he has problems. That will effectively mean he is paying more for his planes than his competitors, and that will put him at a competitive disadvantage. And that may be enough to put him out of business, as the cutthroat competition of the past will be child’s play to what it is going to be in the near future.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Qatar Airways to retire entire 777 fleet

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
The second hand market will be flooded, no?

Understatement. The 777-300ER second hand market just took a step down in value.

We should expect other airlines not to renew leases too. e.g., EK is doing some lease returns.

The timing of the 777-300ERSF is looking more and more brilliant.

No one should be smug on competing products. When this many good longhaul aircraft hit the market, there will be airlines that change plans and buy second hand.

Lightsaber


This gets me to thinking: If the feedstock of low-time B77W's gets large enough, could a potential, semi-independent re-engining program be feasible? The airframes are stout and built to go for 30 years, put a pair of GenX engines on a B77W and the "Greens" would be satisfied. Of course it would kick the B77X and A350 programs hard in the teeth if this were to happen.

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