Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
andz
Posts: 7696
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:13 am

Now the "experts" start coming out of the woodwork:

some local reports on TV yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_VfUtLKnX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoklLrH4CRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb1GScIO_I4
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:51 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Why does a South African airline need to be 75% owned by South African passport holders ? If this is set by the Govt, it sounds like an attempt in the past to protect SAA from possible competitors. Perhaps the Govt might want to lower the barrier to 50.1 % ownership instead to encourage non-S.African resident companies to invest in any future medium and long haul carrier

It is mentioned in this article: https://mg.co.za/article/2013-10-08-fly ... st-flight/

I have no doubt you are correct. The point is more to ask whether the South African Govt should reduce the ownership threshold from 75% to 50% once SAA is dissolved. It is pointless to have laws to protect an airline after the airline ceases to exist. I imagine a 75% threshold will make it harder for any airline based in S.Africa to be involved in medium/long haul flying, which leaves the country reliant on foreign airlines with monopoly pricing power. I am dubious that Comair are going to be adding 787s to their fleet any time soon...
 
berari
Posts: 901
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:38 pm

evanb wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
FlySafair (which only flies domestic routes in South Africa) was delayed in starting scheduled service (it did so with the B738s coming off lease from South African Airways, which were owned by Safair's parent ASL Aviation Group) because it had to restructure its ownership.


Safair's first flight took place in Oct 2014. The 3x SAA B738s arrived a year later.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Coastal areas by Nigeria, Ghana, and the Ivory Coast could come when the MAX is able to fly again.


I think you're being overly optimistic about the MAX's capabilities operating at 5,700ft AMSL. The -8 will leave behind about 5t to 10t of payload. That would dramatically reduce the range given its MTOW is only about 82t. That might not be a problem on shorter routes, but it'll eat into the paying payload on something like JNB-LOS or JNB-ACC.


Looking through what ET was doing out of ADD, range wise, it has been able to make destinations like DME and OUA work using the MAX8. Likely at a loss. But how can that be explained?

JNB LOS 2,803 mi
JNB ACC 2,897 mi
JNB ABJ 3,051 mi
ADD DME 3,200 mi
ADD OUA 2,748 mi
ADD JNB 2,516 mi
 
trees
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:14 pm

berari wrote:
evanb wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
FlySafair (which only flies domestic routes in South Africa) was delayed in starting scheduled service (it did so with the B738s coming off lease from South African Airways, which were owned by Safair's parent ASL Aviation Group) because it had to restructure its ownership.


Safair's first flight took place in Oct 2014. The 3x SAA B738s arrived a year later.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Coastal areas by Nigeria, Ghana, and the Ivory Coast could come when the MAX is able to fly again.


I think you're being overly optimistic about the MAX's capabilities operating at 5,700ft AMSL. The -8 will leave behind about 5t to 10t of payload. That would dramatically reduce the range given its MTOW is only about 82t. That might not be a problem on shorter routes, but it'll eat into the paying payload on something like JNB-LOS or JNB-ACC.


Looking through what ET was doing out of ADD, range wise, it has been able to make destinations like DME and OUA work using the MAX8. Likely at a loss. But how can that be explained?

JNB LOS 2,803 mi
JNB ACC 2,897 mi
JNB ABJ 3,051 mi
ADD DME 3,200 mi
ADD OUA 2,748 mi
ADD JNB 2,516 mi


berari wrote:
Likely at a loss.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2373
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:17 pm

Why hasn't anyone posted that SAA is now gone? They've fired all staff and no money from the government.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... -employees

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... s-20200421
 
Flylot
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:33 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:26 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why hasn't anyone posted that SAA is now gone? They've fired all staff and no money from the government.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... -employees

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... s-20200421


You can see this is in discussion on the previous page.
"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
 
KingOrGod
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:51 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why hasn't anyone posted that SAA is now gone? They've fired all staff and no money from the government.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... -employees

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... s-20200421


Because it's not gone yet. I believe this to be a showdown between SAA and the RSA Treasury. In that, they're testing the waters to see if the ANC really wants to lose their biggest source of cash to steal.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3534
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:07 pm

evanb wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
FlySafair (which only flies domestic routes in South Africa) was delayed in starting scheduled service (it did so with the B738s coming off lease from South African Airways, which were owned by Safair's parent ASL Aviation Group) because it had to restructure its ownership.


Safair's first flight took place in Oct 2014. The 3x SAA B738s arrived a year later.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Coastal areas by Nigeria, Ghana, and the Ivory Coast could come when the MAX is able to fly again.


I think you're being overly optimistic about the MAX's capabilities operating at 5,700ft AMSL. The -8 will leave behind about 5t to 10t of payload. That would dramatically reduce the range given its MTOW is only about 82t. That might not be a problem on shorter routes, but it'll eat into the paying payload on something like JNB-LOS or JNB-ACC.


What about from CPT instead?
 
evanb
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:15 am

berari wrote:
Looking through what ET was doing out of ADD, range wise, it has been able to make destinations like DME and OUA work using the MAX8. Likely at a loss. But how can that be explained?

JNB LOS 2,803 mi
JNB ACC 2,897 mi
JNB ABJ 3,051 mi
ADD DME 3,200 mi
ADD OUA 2,748 mi
ADD JNB 2,516 mi


As far as I'm aware, they fly OUA via NIM (so 2,501 mi) and ADD-DME is mostly with B788. So I don't think they're consistently flown routes of 2,800 mi with the B737 MAX. But even then, ET have an extraordinarily low cost base. Lower than any comparable airline by a large margin. That means they're able to operate on lower unit/trip revenues than other airlines. So they could run routes with far greater payload restrictions than a comparable carrier. So what is good for ET is not necessarily the same for MN. MN simply don't have the same very low labour costs, airport costs at their home base and access to cheap capital.
 
evanb
Posts: 908
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:18 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
What about from CPT instead?


Because the regional O&D market to/from South Africa is heavily dominated by JNB (probably more than 80 or 90%).
 
cityshuttle
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:13 am

Rumors about a government backed airline / successor for SAA

https://liveandletsfly.com/new-south-african-airline/
 
trees
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:41 am

cityshuttle wrote:
Rumors about a government backed airline / successor for SAA

https://liveandletsfly.com/new-south-african-airline/


If the government has anything to do with it, South African Airways 2 with quickly become South African Airways 3 and then 4 and 5 and 6 and so on... much like “flag” carriers in the rest of Africa.
 
User avatar
frigatebird
Posts: 1778
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:35 am

cityshuttle wrote:
Rumors about a government backed airline / successor for SAA

https://liveandletsfly.com/new-south-african-airline/

Wonder what will happen with the tickets I have for a SAA flight later this year (purchased these long before the COVID-19 crisis of course). Hoped I could still use them on a later date next year, SAA promised to be very flexible with changes.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
andz
Posts: 7696
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:15 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Why hasn't anyone posted that SAA is now gone? They've fired all staff and no money from the government.

https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/busines ... -employees

https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Industr ... s-20200421


They haven't fired all staff, get your facts straight.

It's not looking good but despite all the reports in the media and elsewhere the employees haven't received a single communication from management or the BRP about the alleged actions being reported publicly. News reports say they want to wrap things up by 30 April but the unions are dragging their feet as expected so who knows.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
TLG
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:41 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:21 pm

I am an American expat living in Ghana. I never flew SAA, but many people with our organization regularly used their IAD-ACC-IAD flight. Sometime in 2019 it went daily, and it was quite popular. It was part of the daily JNB-ACC-IAD-ACC-JNB route.

I know a number of people who had tickets with SAA, either fully unused or one way used of a round trip. Some of them were here in Ghana when SAA quit flying, and ended up returning to the US on repatriation flights (that wasn't only due to SAA ceasing operations; there were here all flights were shut down due to COVID 19). Some of them are still here. Others were scheduled to fly here from the US shortly after SAA ceased operations. So far I don't believe any of them have been successful at getting a refund.
 
mr02
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:43 am

...and a new airline will be formed.
https://mg.co.za/article/2020-04-29-saa ... e-off/?amp
There is a bit of controversy about this but it might be for the best.
 
LUKAS10
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:54 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:11 am

Another black hole for taxpayers' money to be created...
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:22 am

Has it actually been agreed to liquidate or are people still just talking about it ?
 
TC957
Posts: 3785
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:46 am

LUKAS10 wrote:
Another black hole for taxpayers' money to be created...

You may well be right, but how about a bit of positivity that at least something is being done about SAA ?
 
IWMBH
Posts: 616
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:50 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Has it actually been agreed to liquidate or are people still just talking about it ?


Reuters and Flightglobal aren't reporting anything about a liquidation.
I suspect these are just layoffs like mentioned some days ago.
 
User avatar
SR380
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am

If a new national airline is created, why would they sale the very expensive LHR slots? Which routes would they still operate, and which what aircraft?
 
Someone83
Posts: 4824
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:09 am

While its death sentence has been announced, we're still waiting for the execution....
 
mr02
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:51 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:30 am

It'll be interesting how it format is going to be after liquidation.
 
AMP44
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:34 am

What are the chances they keep the South African Airways brand? Similar to what Alitalia – Società Aerea Italiana (New Alitalia) did with Alitalia – Linee Aeree Italiane (Old Alitalia).
 
User avatar
PM
Posts: 5261
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:39 am

"...it is understood that an equity partner will be brought on board."

IF a new airline is established and IF an equity partner (another airline, ideally) comes on board, and IF the government can keep their hands off it (note to new equity partner - get a watertight guarantee), this might be the best outcome all round.
 
User avatar
fraspotter
Posts: 2261
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 8:12 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:51 am

So they want to start a new airline to replace the old SAA. Are they going to try and replicate their long haul routes or are they going to try and refocus as a regional airline? But now they want to absorb all the former SAA employees? How will this turn out any different then before? SAA was grossly overstaffed before and this new airline would surely be overstaffed too. As another poster mentioned "Another black hole for taxpayers' money to be created..."
"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee."

— Gunter's Second Law of Air Travel
 
cityshuttle
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:58 am

Another question would be, if they also prefer to remain in Star Alliance with the new airline ...
 
LifelinerOne
Posts: 1614
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:30 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:07 pm

fraspotter wrote:
So they want to start a new airline to replace the old SAA. Are they going to try and replicate their long haul routes or are they going to try and refocus as a regional airline? But now they want to absorb all the former SAA employees? How will this turn out any different then before? SAA was grossly overstaffed before and this new airline would surely be overstaffed too. As another poster mentioned "Another black hole for taxpayers' money to be created..."


Actually, the article doesn't say "all" SAA employees need to be absorbed. Could be some, several, multiple, most or all. We don't know.

I do think this could be a good thing, as long as they indeed are able to create a new airline without overstaffing and governmental meddling. But I am not too hopeful about that.

Cheers! :wave:
Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2638
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:54 pm

Thing is dead. they just haven't accepted it yet.
This is happening to airlines right around the world. Some are going to need to take a haircut
and others open heart surgery. Others already have died. See the Virgin group, Eurowings,
etc. Sad to see it happen but many once great carriers have gone through this during
a crisis. Some survive like JAL. More end up like Pan Am, Sebena, Varig and Ansett.
 
Pavlakakos
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:51 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:00 pm

"Details about the proposed new airline have not been revealed, but it is understood that an equity partner will be brought on board. "

Well, well, now we get an idea of what LH could do with the 10 bil. taxpayer bailout it asked for.
 
User avatar
BN727227Ultra
Posts: 693
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:15 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:01 pm

Have Alitalia run it! What could go wrong?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Pavlakakos wrote:
"Details about the proposed new airline have not been revealed, but it is understood that an equity partner will be brought on board. "

Well, well, now we get an idea of what LH could do with the 10 bil. taxpayer bailout it asked for.


The prospective value determines the size of an equity investment. IMHO, LH could participate for pocket change.

The Alitalia reference is a good one. It's possible to demand so much - carrying old debts, mandating unprofitable routes for political reasons, keeping too many underproductive staff - that you have an entity with no economic value to owners. That should be the lesson of Alitalia's nearly three years in administration prior to nationalization.
 
737max8
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:01 pm

If the SAA name is NOT reused, what do y'all think would be a nice name to use?
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3723
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:08 pm

If the new SAA has the same terrible governance structure it will be doomed to failure again. Any airline where the national treasury makes the fleet decisions, parliament decides what longhaul routes to fly and the local politicians decide whom it employs cannot have success. The new carrier has to let it's managers manage.
 
User avatar
eastafspot
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:11 pm

737max8 wrote:
If the SAA name is NOT reused, what do y'all think would be a nice name to use?


Good Hope Airlines :duck:
Fly with Air Burundi, Air Tanzania, Golden Wings Aviation, Kenya Airways, RwandAir and Uganda Airlines...Jumuiya ya Afrika mashariki !
 
User avatar
smithbs
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:09 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:31 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Have Alitalia run it! What could go wrong?


Call Qatar and tell them there's a new investment opportunity!

usflyer msp wrote:
If the new SAA has the same terrible governance structure it will be doomed to failure again. Any airline where the national treasury makes the fleet decisions, parliament decides what longhaul routes to fly and the local politicians decide whom it employs cannot have success. The new carrier has to let it's managers manage.


I can understand fleet decisions having a political aspect in a small country, since the debt would need central bank support and therefore which currency to use or who to buy from becomes an issue. But otherwise, I think you are correct - it can't be a socio-political hand-out machine.

However, I think it would be too tempting for the SA government to use it as such. No guarantee could be watertight enough when a simple government decree could overturn it and go back to how it was. And the SA government is just the kind to do it...

I'll be curious to see what happens with long-haul flying. With all service in the hands of the 'foreign majors' now, I'm curious how long the SA government will let that go before saying something about having their own long-haul service again.
 
Williamsb747
Posts: 143
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:32 pm

eastafspot wrote:
737max8 wrote:
If the SAA name is NOT reused, what do y'all think would be a nice name to use?


Good Hope Airlines :duck:


With a hub at CPT I would LOVE that.
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
andz
Posts: 7696
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 10:51 am

Staff have been informed that they are on unpaid leave from today, still waiting to hear the final outcome.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
User avatar
chunhimlai
Posts: 598
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:03 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Fri May 01, 2020 1:01 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
eastafspot wrote:
737max8 wrote:
If the SAA name is NOT reused, what do y'all think would be a nice name to use?


Good Hope Airlines :duck:


With a hub at CPT I would LOVE that.


Air Koryo South African
 
crownvic
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 1:23 pm

Just had an A340-600 transit OR TAMBO-Dulles yesterday and another one today too.
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3175
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Fri May 01, 2020 2:29 pm

737max8 wrote:
If the SAA name is NOT reused, what do y'all think would be a nice name to use?


Avatar


Anyways, what I think we will end up seeing is an outside airline brought in under contract to set up a "new" SA, in much the same way as UL did, in fact, EK would probably be the go to IMHO, in normal times EK was flying 2x380, 1 x 777 into JNB, that's a lot of pax taken from SA. While SA certainly has a number of issues, the SA government allowed the competition to trample them, maybe by having one of the competition having some skin in the game a little pressure could be relieved.

Set up a few direct flights (NYC-GRU), but route the majority of the long haul flights into Dubai and let them carry the pax the rest of the way.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 2:38 pm

Would a theoretical "new SAA" go straight into Star Alliance (or Skyteam) as happens with Alitalia every time it gets resurrected ? Or should it operate on a standalone basis ? Is it sensible for it to do long haul, or should it confine itself to just sub-Saharan Africa ? Would it be able to afford the fees of *A ? Would it be happy taking a likely small share of ticket revenue as happened with bmi in London about 10 years ago if it avoids long haul ? Would it be welcome in *A ?
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Fri May 01, 2020 3:04 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
Another question would be, if they also prefer to remain in Star Alliance with the new airline ...


That is probably the last question on their mind. Depends on what the new carrier looks like. Will it be a domestic/regional outfit? In which case being in an alliance is less important than having bilateral agreements with the big players into JNB.
 
iadbudd
Posts: 126
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:36 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 3:17 pm

crownvic wrote:
Just had an A340-600 transit OR TAMBO-Dulles yesterday and another one today too.

Cargo only flight
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Fri May 01, 2020 3:25 pm

smithbs wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
Have Alitalia run it! What could go wrong?


Call Qatar and tell them there's a new investment opportunity!

I am honestly surprised that there hasn't been any info on QR looking to invest in them. This is right up QR's alley.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 3:43 pm

iadbudd wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Just had an A340-600 transit OR TAMBO-Dulles yesterday and another one today too.

Cargo only flight


Yes, I am aware of that I was just wondering who is paying the crew since all this talk is that they closed up shop...
 
andz
Posts: 7696
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 4:29 pm

crownvic wrote:
iadbudd wrote:
crownvic wrote:
Just had an A340-600 transit OR TAMBO-Dulles yesterday and another one today too.

Cargo only flight


Yes, I am aware of that I was just wondering who is paying the crew since all this talk is that they closed up shop...

They haven't closed up shop, cargo and repatriation flights are still operating as many have said and seen. For those still working it is business as usual for now.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
hohd
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 4:45 pm

One of the many reasons for SAA's failure is allowing EK and QR to ramp up its services without any consideration to O & D traffic. Had South Africa struck a good bilateral deal with Dubai and Qatar, SAA would be in a somewhat better shape.

Using the current pandemic as an excuse, may be South African govt can renegotiate the bilaterals with UAE and Qatar to get a better deal for its own carriers by reducing the seats allowed.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19743
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri May 01, 2020 5:02 pm

hohd wrote:
One of the many reasons for SAA's failure is allowing EK and QR to ramp up its services without any consideration to O & D traffic. Had South Africa struck a good bilateral deal with Dubai and Qatar, SAA would be in a somewhat better shape.

Using the current pandemic as an excuse, may be South African govt can renegotiate the bilaterals with UAE and Qatar to get a better deal for its own carriers by reducing the seats allowed.

What is South Africa offering? Please remember air service is only a small part of the bilateral. So if the bilateral is cancelled, South Africa losses in other areas. You are asking for Qatar and UAE to give up a lot.

Other business business benefits, for example connections to China.

The main issue of SAA is lack of cost control. Look at the staffing ratios.

The many reasons mattered more.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
ScottB
Posts: 6923
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: SAA to be liquidated!

Fri May 01, 2020 6:22 pm

PM wrote:
"...it is understood that an equity partner will be brought on board."

IF a new airline is established and IF an equity partner (another airline, ideally) comes on board, and IF the government can keep their hands off it (note to new equity partner - get a watertight guarantee), this might be the best outcome all round.


When dealing with a government entity, just remember that you are basically dealing with Darth Vader: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

hohd wrote:
Using the current pandemic as an excuse, may be South African govt can renegotiate the bilaterals with UAE and Qatar to get a better deal for its own carriers by reducing the seats allowed.


I'm not really sure what sort of improvement you'd expect? O&D between ZA and the Gulf nations is relatively small and there's going to be little transit traffic to DXB/AUH/DOH over JNB. On the flip side, in normal times, South African consumers and tourism businesses benefit from the competition which results in lower fares to South Africa. What you're talking about is like bandaging a paper cut while ignoring the gunshot wound to the abdomen.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747classic, 747d10, Armadillo1, aviatorcraig, bmibaby737, Boeing74741R, Google Adsense [Bot], Iemand91, offloaded, rrlopes, RyanairGuru, Scotron12, Someone83, Tdan, usflyer msp, YUAND and 383 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos