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Someone83
Posts: 5840
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Mon May 03, 2021 3:51 pm

But they are far from being back in the air?
 
alfa164
Posts: 4157
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Mon May 03, 2021 4:56 pm

LAXintl wrote:
SAA exits administration after 17 months.

South Africa's struggling national airline South African Airways (SAA) on Friday exited a local form of bankruptcy protection called business rescue after roughly 17 months. Its administrators said in a statement that they had filed a notice of "substantial implementation" of a business rescue plan with South Africa's Companies and Intellectual Property Commission. That meant they had "effectively discharged the business rescue and handed over the operations of SAA back to its board and executive team", adding SAA was now solvent.


Define "solvent"? Do they have any assets that would allow them to keep flying? Or is "solvent" just a way to say the administrators wiped-out their debts by judicial fiat, and everybody is going to walk away from the carcass?
 
danipawa
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Mon May 03, 2021 5:42 pm

how is the current fleet?
 
aa1818
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Mon May 03, 2021 9:54 pm

Based on the quote from Reuters;
The Department of Public Enterprises (DPE), the ministry responsible for SAA, said the government was in the final stages of negotiations with a preferred equity partner for SAA.

"A purchase and sale agreement should be concluded in the next few weeks. This will enable capital, and much-needed technical and commercial expertise to be brought in to ensure a competitive flag carrier emerges," it said in a statement.

Neither the administrators nor the DPE said when SAA might resume flights.


It seems there is a deal to be closed first.
Then the airline will need to be recapitalized.
Then I am assuming some sort of re-fleeting and only then will flights resume.
The remaining aircraft in its fleet are all owned?

AA1818
 
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cv990Coronado
Posts: 394
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Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Tue May 04, 2021 3:59 pm

Does anyone know exactly how many aircraft SAA current have? One sees conflicting information, possibly 3 x A340-600's and 3 x A340-300's. Also, maybe a few A319/320's. The 737's at their subsidiary Mango appear to be all leased. They plan to restart operations, which they have suggested will start with domestic and regional operations; it seems that the A340's are less than ideal. Although there is a surplus of available aircraft from leasing companies, I wonder how keen they will be to deal with SAA after the recent debacle?
 
Williamsb747
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Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:07 am

 
bmagee
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Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:08 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:03 am

2 A320s for SAA returned to Johannesburg last night (I read they were in storage in Abu Dhabi)

https://twitter.com/flysaa/status/1425889682009767939?s=20
https://twitter.com/FlyingZulu/status/1425934476387962887?s=20
 
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PM
Posts: 5686
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:05 am

bmagee wrote:
2 A320s for SAA returned to Johannesburg last night (I read they were in storage in Abu Dhabi)

https://twitter.com/flysaa/status/1425889682009767939?s=20
https://twitter.com/FlyingZulu/status/1425934476387962887?s=20

I'm guessing -SZI and -SZJ?
 
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atcsundevil
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:14 pm

Stick to the topic. Users who want to engage in flamebait racial discussions can find another website to do so.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
T54A
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:47 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:24 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Stick to the topic. Users who want to engage in flamebait racial discussions can find another website to do so.

✈️ atcsundevil


Unfortunately this topic is heavily racial. Even the President of the RSA stated the ‘new’ SAA will be for the benefit of Black pilots. His words, not mine. Good luck trying to moderate that topic
 
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atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 5343
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:34 pm

T54A wrote:
Unfortunately this topic is heavily racial. Even the President of the RSA stated the ‘new’ SAA will be for the benefit of Black pilots. His words, not mine. Good luck trying to moderate that topic

Regardless, that's not what this website is about, so people can either find an appropriate way to include that in the discussion, omit it, or find someplace else to talk that way. Including racial comments or statistics with derogatory implications will absolutely get users banned from these forums, so this is the one and only warning.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
Chrisba320
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:35 pm

As a South African living in Cape Town I’m happy to give SAA another chance. Years of mismanagement and political interference took its toll but let’s see how things go from here. I’m very happy to hear about the 2 A320’s that arrived yesterday from Abu Dhabi. I hope they will start using them on the CPT - JNB route soon. It was always a pleasure to fly on SAA locally, their aircraft and the onboard experience was vastly better than any of the other carriers. I can see a future for them, especially if they focus on routes into Africa where flight frequency is an issue and the yields are high. With better management and less political interference let’s hope their future looks better than their past. I’ll put my money where my mouth is when they resume their flights.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: SAA shrinks even further

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Williamsb747 wrote:
8 of 26 international routes isn't half.... its just over a third.

Williams-

It's just under a third. ;)
 
ScottB
Posts: 7926
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:25 pm

T54A wrote:
Even the President of the RSA stated the ‘new’ SAA will be for the benefit of Black pilots. His words, not mine. Good luck trying to moderate that topic


If the government is mandating policies like that and retaining a golden share with 33% voting rights (as well as unspecified powers regarding "certain areas of national interest") I suspect the era of government meddling is far from ending.

I cannot imagine who would be dumb enough to commit their own private capital to that.
 
Scotron12
Posts: 676
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:42 am

Having watched some of the Zondo Commission enquiry into State Capture, and the trial of Chair Dudu Myemi (2012-2017) where she was found guilty of being a rogue director and disqualified for life to ever serving on any company again, it's tragic what happened to SAA.

The corruption was just astounding, if not treasonous.

Hopefully they do succeed in restarting, although it looks like it will be an uphill struggle.

Some of the former executives at SAA will be criminally charged. When, and if, remains to be seen.

Rgds
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 4887
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: Updated: SAA shrinks even further, laying off staff

Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:11 pm

Scotron12 wrote:
Having watched some of the Zondo Commission enquiry into State Capture, and the trial of Chair Dudu Myemi (2012-2017) where she was found guilty of being a rogue director and disqualified for life to ever serving on any company again, it's tragic what happened to SAA.

The corruption was just astounding, if not treasonous.

Hopefully they do succeed in restarting, although it looks like it will be an uphill struggle.

Some of the former executives at SAA will be criminally charged. When, and if, remains to be seen.

Rgds


I've said this before but I believe the only way SAA will successfully reform itself is to completely overhaul their governance structure.
Hopefully, the privatisation talk will help take care of this as no one will invest in SAA as it is currently structured.

It needs independent, experienced directors not political hacks.
It needs to let its managers make decisions not the treasury, foreign affairs and employment and labour departments.
As long as the managers are micromanaged by the government, they will never be successful.
 
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Miami
Posts: 6358
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

South African Airways Returns To The Skies

Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:14 pm

SAA has announced they will relaunch commercial services from September 23, 2021.

More:
https://simpleflying.com/saa-flight-ret ... mber-2021/

- Miami
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 26704
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:57 pm

SAA says they are back with September relaunch...



Image
https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/ ... zQSmCj_w1E
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 8320
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: South African Airways Returns To The Skies

Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:48 pm

Glad to hear! I was really kicking myself when they grounded as I had the chance to fly them just before the shit down but took LH instead. Now had the SA plane been an A340 instead of the A350, I would've ditched LH. But LH was a 748 and I'm still glad I took the ride.

Hopefully SA keeps the A340 for a little longer. I'd love to take another trip to ZA.
 
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CostaDelSol90
Posts: 41
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Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:59 am

I presume all these flights will be operated by the A320?
 
9252fly
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:02 am

CostaDelSol90 wrote:
I presume all these flights will be operated by the A320?


I see an A319 on JNB - CPT. It will probably be a combination of both for the time being.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3621
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:06 am

CostaDelSol90 wrote:
I presume all these flights will be operated by the A320?


Would JNB-ACC, at 2897 mi, be pushing the range of a 320?
 
Williamsb747
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:49 am

FSDan wrote:
CostaDelSol90 wrote:
I presume all these flights will be operated by the A320?


Would JNB-ACC, at 2897 mi, be pushing the range of a 320?


It will be an a330-300
 
bmagee
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:08 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:09 am

 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 4094
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Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:22 am

I am surprised at not even serving Pretoria or other large cities in South Africa first.
 
contractdog
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:30 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I am surprised at not even serving Pretoria or other large cities in South Africa first.


Considering Pretoria is a 45 minute drive from JHB, I don't quite get what you are suggesting?

As for other cities in SA... the domestic market is VERY saturated right now, especially given that BA/Kulula will also start flying in earnest from 1 September.
 
majano
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:38 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I am surprised at not even serving Pretoria or other large cities in South Africa first.

I assume you meant Durban because SAA has never served Pretoria in the past. Proximity to Johannesburg means that people, especially from the east of Pretoria, can drive to JNB faster than some people in the west and northern parts of Johannesburg.
As for Durban, SAA code shared with its then subsidiary Mango on the JNB - DBN route and Mango operated the flights. I am not sure, but I presume, that SAA lost Mango during its restructure. Perhaps DBN could once again be considered for direct service by SAA
 
shankly
Posts: 1423
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:23 am

Will be interesting to see the early loads and how the airline physically accommodates the ramp up

My perception, living here in SA, is that the air-travelling public has become a little conservative given the lumps and bumps with SAA, Mango, Lift and Comair over these last few months. I now use Airlink as much as possible. Brilliant point to point little airline with a super fleet of EMB's.Thereafter Safair have become my 2nd choice. Both pure-bred private ops. Cemair have also created a good domestic and southern african market presence and I must get round to trying them.

Their initial routes (ACC aside) look like they have been collated by putting a map of Africa on the wall and throwing darts at it, whilst others are destinations, simply because they are there (HRE).

I'll give them 12 months
 
A330Inter
Posts: 209
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:59 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:15 am

So this schedule is doable with 5 aircraft, any idea which aircraft are left in the fleet at the moment?
Planespotters says 3 A319, 2 A320, 1 A330 and a couple of A340 which I doubt will go back to service
 
contractdog
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:31 pm

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:32 am

A330Inter wrote:
So this schedule is doable with 5 aircraft, any idea which aircraft are left in the fleet at the moment?
Planespotters says 3 A319, 2 A320, 1 A330 and a couple of A340 which I doubt will go back to service


The 2 x 346's are on the revised AOC, ZS-SNG did a test flight of an hour a week ago. As they only have the one A333, maybe they will just be used to cover maintenance down time?
 
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CostaDelSol90
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Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:35 pm

The schedule (via booking engine) is showing all Accra ops are on the 333. So there is at least some wide body capacity coming back.
 
imag
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:11 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:54 am

ZS-SXM A333 has been in storage at JNB, all other 332/333 have been returned and physically left the country. Not saying this will be the 333 used, but seems likely.
 
ghdc10
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:51 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:28 am

CostaDelSol90 wrote:
The schedule (via booking engine) is showing all Accra ops are on the 333. So there is at least some wide body capacity coming back.


OMG! Another widebody departing Accra during the 10:00 PM free crack give-away!?! Hahahaha. If you buy a ticket, arrive 4 hours before your flight to avoid needing a therapist after going through the torture of those line-ups.

Just in case you are wondering what I am talking about, here is a preview of the company you will have:
ghdc10 wrote:
I will say though, that it is absolutely insane for Ghana Airports Company to allow several major airlines with widebodies to depart within an hour and half of each other. The late evening rush is ridiculous.
    KLM - 777-300ER - 408 pax
    British Airways - A350-1000 - 331 pax
    Delta - 767-300ER / A330-200 - 226/234 pax
    United - 787-8 243 pax

    Brussels Airlines - A330-300 295 pax but not all O/D TO ACC
    Air France - A330-200 224 pax but not all O/D to ACC

One has to plan for max direct flight capacity and let's say 50% of triangular route capacity. That would total 1,500 passengers arriving at the airport for departure during busy periods.


Yes, I have been ranting about this situation elsewhere. The security and immigration lines are understaffed and traffic to the airport is crazy at about 7-8 PM
 
andz
Posts: 7791
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

"New" SAA - the honeymoon is already over

Tue Oct 12, 2021 5:56 pm

This has to be a record, after only 3 weeks back in the air the unions representing cabin crew and other employees are planning a picket and strike due to salary cuts of up to one third (which was well known before my wife took her severance package more than a year ago) as well as loss of medical aid, housing and other benefits.

https://www.news24.com/fin24/companies/ ... s-20211012
 
9252fly
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

Re: "New" SAA - the honeymoon is already over

Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:05 pm

They ( government ) should have shut it down when they had a chance, but no, had to continue with the farce. Hope your wife got paid her severance package.
 
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enzo011
Posts: 2096
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:12 am

Re: SAA News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:17 am

In what will be no surprise to anyone who has been following SAA and their saga the past decade or so, the Zondo Commission Inquiry has found that there was massive corruption under Dudu Myeni and there are calls that individuals should be investigated for fraud and corruption,

The report recommended that law enforcement agencies and the National Prosecuting Authority investigate numerous cases of corruption and fraud at SAA, SAA Technical and SA Express, uncovered during three years of hearings.

These include probes into:

Myeni illegally disclosing the identity of a whistleblower;
what happened to millions of rands that allegedly flowed into the bank accounts of Myeni and the Jacob Zuma Foundation from a housing project in the Free State province;
whether Myeni is guilty of fraud for "knowingly" misrepresenting decisions taken by SAA's board to two finance ministers;
whether R28.5 million was paid, in apparent kickbacks, in a deal with Swissport for a ground handling contract;
whether JM Aviation paid any VAT to SARS on the R28.5 million it received from Swissport;
the affairs of former Airports Company South Africa group treasurer Phetolo Ramosebudi and Eric Wood, a businessman linked to the Gupta family, for corruption linked to an interest rate swap deal.
The report also ruled that:

The Airports Company of South Africa should take steps to recover millions of rands paid to Gupta-linked Regiments Capital under the abovementioned interest swap contract;
former SAA Technical procurement head Nontsasa Memela, and others, be investigated by the NPA for forging documents. The report also suggested that Memela be probed by the Legal Practice Council and, if found guilty, struck off the roll of advocates;
former SAA board member Yakhe Kwinana be probed by the South African Institute of Charted Accountants as she appeared to have "no clue" about some of the basic obligations the job entails.


State Capture Inquiry finds SAA 'racked by corruption and fraud' under Dudu Myeni

Hopefully, for the good of the country, individuals will be charged and found guilty and sent to jail. The country needs a reset in how it views corruption and fraud and sending those to jail that are guilty of it, no matter if they were president, would go a long way to getting things back on track for everyone.
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