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fidelidade
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:52 pm

I see that TAP Portugal and Azul has finally signed the JV agreement. In Brasil news, Azul is saying JV will begin their joint network within 3 months. What routes can we see? Tap Portugal seems to be growing and making noise everyday.

https://centreforaviation.com/news/azul ... ent-974503
 
RvA
Posts: 380
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:00 pm

Ripe to be absorbed into one of the EU3. Given two of them (one more than the other though) have a decent to strong presence to South America already I suspect the third one (the largest of the three) will have some interest.

Nice going anyway by TAP and of course Azul.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:01 pm

I was at a conference, and heard they are looking to restart LIS-VCP, and are weeks away from announcing EZE. Good to see this happening. TAP has a lot of momentum, and has been adding capacity 20% every year for 5 years.

Saludos
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
abrelosojos
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:03 pm

RvA wrote:
Ripe to be absorbed into one of the EU3. Given two of them (one more than the other though) have a decent to strong presence to South America already I suspect the third one (the largest of the three) will have some interest.

Nice going anyway by TAP and of course Azul.


= I agree with this completely. If I look across the globe right now, TAP is definitely the #1 acquisition target. I can't recall a legacy airline that has so fundamentally transformed itself in the past 3 years.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
x1234
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:25 pm

Is there any chance of TAP expanding into other markets in Latin America like EZE, SCL, LIM or BOG or only colonial connections to Brazil?
 
dstblj52
Posts: 463
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 10:43 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
RvA wrote:
Ripe to be absorbed into one of the EU3. Given two of them (one more than the other though) have a decent to strong presence to South America already I suspect the third one (the largest of the three) will have some interest.

Nice going anyway by TAP and of course Azul.


= I agree with this completely. If I look across the globe right now, TAP is definitely the #1 acquisition target. I can't recall a legacy airline that has so fundamentally transformed itself in the past 3 years.

Saludos,
Alex

might be AFKLM acquisition especially if air Europa gets acquired by IAG to help fill in that gap, and grow the group cause there the smallest of the EU3
 
airbazar
Posts: 10164
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:52 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
RvA wrote:
Ripe to be absorbed into one of the EU3. Given two of them (one more than the other though) have a decent to strong presence to South America already I suspect the third one (the largest of the three) will have some interest.

Nice going anyway by TAP and of course Azul.


= I agree with this completely. If I look across the globe right now, TAP is definitely the #1 acquisition target. I can't recall a legacy airline that has so fundamentally transformed itself in the past 3 years.

Saludos,
Alex

might be AFKLM acquisition especially if air Europa gets acquired by IAG to help fill in that gap, and grow the group cause there the smallest of the EU3


AFAIK the Portuguese government has little appetite to let a EU carrier buy TAP. The last rumor I heard was that United was interested, which makes sense considering United and Azul already have a strategic partnership and are trying to form a JV. Personally I think United would be bad for TP because UA would always favor the A++ alliance they have with LH and AC in the TATL market.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:24 am

airbazar wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:

= I agree with this completely. If I look across the globe right now, TAP is definitely the #1 acquisition target. I can't recall a legacy airline that has so fundamentally transformed itself in the past 3 years.

Saludos,
Alex

might be AFKLM acquisition especially if air Europa gets acquired by IAG to help fill in that gap, and grow the group cause there the smallest of the EU3


AFAIK the Portuguese government has little appetite to let a EU carrier buy TAP. The last rumor I heard was that United was interested, which makes sense considering United and Azul already have a strategic partnership and are trying to form a JV. Personally I think United would be bad for TP because UA would always favor the A++ alliance they have with LH and AC in the TATL market.

Portugal is a member of the EU if they want to sell their stake in the airline they would have to allow competitive bidding and someone like UA could at most buy 49%
 
Rossiya747
Posts: 322
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:44 am

Could Azul join Star Alliance? They already codeshare with Ethiopian, TAP, United, Turkish, Copa and Lufthansa. Would it be smart for them to build off of these codeshares and join SA with all the benefits? Plus, Azul could replace the hole Avianca Brazil left when they went bankrupt.
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RvA
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:48 am

dstblj52 wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
RvA wrote:
Ripe to be absorbed into one of the EU3. Given two of them (one more than the other though) have a decent to strong presence to South America already I suspect the third one (the largest of the three) will have some interest.

Nice going anyway by TAP and of course Azul.


= I agree with this completely. If I look across the globe right now, TAP is definitely the #1 acquisition target. I can't recall a legacy airline that has so fundamentally transformed itself in the past 3 years.

Saludos,
Alex

might be AFKLM acquisition especially if air Europa gets acquired by IAG to help fill in that gap, and grow the group cause there the smallest of the EU3


Although true I imagine their fellow Star Alliance partner with a smaller footprint to South America than AFKLM may have an interest and potentially deeper pockets too? Either way interesting.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:07 pm

x1234 wrote:
Is there any chance of TAP expanding into other markets in Latin America like EZE, SCL, LIM or BOG or only colonial connections to Brazil?


= Remember, TAP now has Arik De as their CCO running network. I have said this before here, but he is very very good, and I bet he has a strong vision for TAP's network and future. I do see EZE and BOG as a matter of time. At BOG, they can connect with Avianca, which if you recall is Anko Van Do Werff, and Anko and Arik were a team at Aeromexico.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:39 pm

Didn't know about this gentleman, Arik De. I guess then it is very likely to have MEX out of LIS rather soon.

What I think this JV could really benefit is from fleet sharing, i.e. in NW TP would shift capacity to Azul and in NS Azul would shift some frames to Lisbon. I think this would be a huge benefit for a cross hemisphere JV and would solve the issue with the European seasonality demand.
 
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fidelidade
Topic Author
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:06 pm

Oh yes. I forgot that Arik De has joined TAP. I agree with others. Having met him, he is very well spoken with a great presence about him. I think MEX is a no-brainer at this point. Perhaps, 350 service? Can the 339's do it?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10164
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:39 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
Portugal is a member of the EU if they want to sell their stake in the airline they would have to allow competitive bidding and someone like UA could at most buy 49%

The government is not interested in selling more than 49%. They want to remain the majority stakeholder. Then there's the stake that the unions want to keep too.
And there's no such thing as a transparent competitive bidding when it comes to a government owned asset. We saw that the last go around when the winning bid (Atlantic Gateway Consortium), wasn't the highest bid. They may allow competitive bidding but in the end the Government chooses who they think is the best fit.
Rossiya747 wrote:
Could Azul join Star Alliance?

Could they? Probably. But I think the legacy alliances are now weaker than ever. I think the future will be JV's and JV-type partnerships.
I've always suspected that we're heading towards a TAP-Azul-JetBlue JV some time in the near future. The missing link for that to happen is B6 TATL routes and that's coming, supposedly.
 
volks92
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:53 am

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:26 pm

AD doesn't seem to be interested in an alliance, their business is very focused on Brazilian point-of-sale and Star Alliance would offer little benefit right now. JVs are a different story.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:54 am

TAP Portugal seems to be hinting at new service on several fronts. Could these be linked?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
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SDUMIA
Posts: 39
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:05 pm

Has anything been announced in regards to elite status benefits between TudoAzul and Miles&Go? From TudoAzul’s website the only perk that a Diamante status tier gives when flying TAP is the use of the TAP lounge at LIS. Would be nice of they could give equivalent to Star Alliance Gold status.
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:20 pm

airbazar wrote:

Rossiya747 wrote:
Could Azul join Star Alliance?

Could they? Probably. But I think the legacy alliances are now weaker than ever. I think the future will be JV's and JV-type partnerships.
I've always suspected that we're heading towards a TAP-Azul-JetBlue JV some time in the near future. The missing link for that to happen is B6 TATL routes and that's coming, supposedly.


I suppose if we revisit this question today, we may have different answers than a few days ago.
 
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Polot
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Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:45 pm

airbazar wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
Could Azul join Star Alliance?

Could they? Probably. But I think the legacy alliances are now weaker than ever. I think the future will be JV's and JV-type partnerships.
I've always suspected that we're heading towards a TAP-Azul-JetBlue JV some time in the near future. The missing link for that to happen is B6 TATL routes and that's coming, supposedly.

Big issue with that is Azul is likely going to be in a JV with United (not sure if that has been officially requested yet or is just talk) who also has a small ownership stake in the company. This makes a Azul-B6 JV unlikely as a B6-Azul-TP JV that doesn’t include US-Brazil makes B6-Azul cooperation pretty useless. I can see a separate B6-TP JV, although I have my suspicions that the Portuguese government is trying to steer TP to a bigger partner.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10164
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:26 pm

Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Rossiya747 wrote:
Could Azul join Star Alliance?

Could they? Probably. But I think the legacy alliances are now weaker than ever. I think the future will be JV's and JV-type partnerships.
I've always suspected that we're heading towards a TAP-Azul-JetBlue JV some time in the near future. The missing link for that to happen is B6 TATL routes and that's coming, supposedly.

Big issue with that is Azul is likely going to be in a JV with United (not sure if that has been officially requested yet or is just talk) who also has a small ownership stake in the company. This makes a Azul-B6 JV unlikely as a B6-Azul-TP JV that doesn’t include US-Brazil makes B6-Azul cooperation pretty useless. I can see a separate B6-TP JV, although I have my suspicions that the Portuguese government is trying to steer TP to a bigger partner.


Sorry, I meant to say that TP would form a JV with both Azul (done) and B6. That does not interfere with a potential JV between UA and Azul. Although the 3 airlines in one JV would be interesting but I don't really see what benefits Azul would bring to B6 in the same way that I don't really see what benefits Azul brings to UA. in the very near team I suppose Azul would provide B6 with access to Brazil but medium term I see B6 flying their own metal to Brazil. As for UA's investment in Azul I see it as similar to Lufthansa's previous investment in B6: It's just another asset to diversify the portfolio. I'm not reading much more into it at this point.
 
offloaded
Posts: 969
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:42 pm

BOG didn't work so they canx it a few years back. Back to South Africa maybe? LIS is still high on the list for missed connections and delays, hopefully to be much improved when Montijo comes on line.
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
wv399
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:32 pm

Re: TAP Portugal begin JV with Azul

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:

Could they? Probably. But I think the legacy alliances are now weaker than ever. I think the future will be JV's and JV-type partnerships.
I've always suspected that we're heading towards a TAP-Azul-JetBlue JV some time in the near future. The missing link for that to happen is B6 TATL routes and that's coming, supposedly.

Big issue with that is Azul is likely going to be in a JV with United (not sure if that has been officially requested yet or is just talk) who also has a small ownership stake in the company. This makes a Azul-B6 JV unlikely as a B6-Azul-TP JV that doesn’t include US-Brazil makes B6-Azul cooperation pretty useless. I can see a separate B6-TP JV, although I have my suspicions that the Portuguese government is trying to steer TP to a bigger partner.


Sorry, I meant to say that TP would form a JV with both Azul (done) and B6. That does not interfere with a potential JV between UA and Azul. Although the 3 airlines in one JV would be interesting but I don't really see what benefits Azul would bring to B6 in the same way that I don't really see what benefits Azul brings to UA. in the very near team I suppose Azul would provide B6 with access to Brazil but medium term I see B6 flying their own metal to Brazil. As for UA's investment in Azul I see it as similar to Lufthansa's previous investment in B6: It's just another asset to diversify the portfolio. I'm not reading much more into it at this point.


Both TP and AD already provide benefits to B6 through codeshares. These airlines feed domestic flights through B6 focus cities. Who knows, maybe AS joining OW would have B6 consider JVs.

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