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capitalflyer
Posts: 629
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:59 pm

enilria wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
capitalflyer wrote:

AA DCA-JFK MAY 3>2[3]
Why bother? Just end the route already. Are there international destinations that folks at DCA can't access from CLT? A quick look suggests the main destinations are LHR, CDG, and MXP. If folks want to go to any of those places, they can make the trek to IAD and hop BA 744/789 to LHR and connect everywhere. This route is pointless.

.

DCA-JFK may be pointless to you, but the professionals at AA see a point. Undoubtably one or a combination of:

1. They think this will be profitable with a combination of O&D and connections they would otherwise lose to other carriers.

2.This frees up space that they can sell for a higher profit through other hubs.

3. It provides network benefits that are important to encouraging loyalty in high value costumers.

4 . It is the most cost effective method to hold onto JFK and/or DCA slots.

enilria wrote:
AA ATL-DCA MAY 4>3[4]
AA BGR-DCA MAY 3>2[3]
AA BOS-DCA MAY 13>10[14]
AA CLE-DCA JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3] NOV 3>4[3]
AA CVG-DCA MAY 3>1.8[3]
AA DAY-DCA MAY 4>3[3]
AA DCA-JFK MAY 3>2[3]
AA DCA-YYZ MAY 3>2.0[1.9]

I hadn't noticed this, but they seem to be pulling the same slot utilization game at DCA. This is 8 net RTs out of DCA in MAY. Perhaps whatever complaint was filed at JFK needs to be expanded.


Interesting point. However I still think that the BOS pull down is trickle down MAX related. But slot squatting is always possible. I would imagine the JFK route will be kept (even with my declaration that it is pointless) just to make sure they have slots dedicated to JFK, whether it makes sense in the network or not.

AA is unique at DCA since they aren't just happy to have slots (like UA, DL, WN, B6, F9), but are trying to run a minihub/focus city. So keeping those slots is vital not only to have access to the most convenient DC airport and its high yield travelers (lawyers and politicians) but to effectively run their airline.
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10284
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:57 pm

capitalflyer wrote:
enilria wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
DCA-JFK may be pointless to you, but the professionals at AA see a point. Undoubtably one or a combination of:

1. They think this will be profitable with a combination of O&D and connections they would otherwise lose to other carriers.

2.This frees up space that they can sell for a higher profit through other hubs.

3. It provides network benefits that are important to encouraging loyalty in high value costumers.

4 . It is the most cost effective method to hold onto JFK and/or DCA slots.

enilria wrote:
AA ATL-DCA MAY 4>3[4]
AA BGR-DCA MAY 3>2[3]
AA BOS-DCA MAY 13>10[14]
AA CLE-DCA JUN 3>4[3] JUL 3>4[3] AUG 3>4[3] SEP 3>4[3] OCT 3>4[3] NOV 3>4[3]
AA CVG-DCA MAY 3>1.8[3]
AA DAY-DCA MAY 4>3[3]
AA DCA-JFK MAY 3>2[3]
AA DCA-YYZ MAY 3>2.0[1.9]

I hadn't noticed this, but they seem to be pulling the same slot utilization game at DCA. This is 8 net RTs out of DCA in MAY. Perhaps whatever complaint was filed at JFK needs to be expanded.


Interesting point. However I still think that the BOS pull down is trickle down MAX related. But slot squatting is always possible. I would imagine the JFK route will be kept (even with my declaration that it is pointless) just to make sure they have slots dedicated to JFK, whether it makes sense in the network or not.

AA is unique at DCA since they aren't just happy to have slots (like UA, DL, WN, B6, F9), but are trying to run a minihub/focus city. So keeping those slots is vital not only to have access to the most convenient DC airport and its high yield travelers (lawyers and politicians) but to effectively run their airline.

That's why I am surprised to see these cuts. Another poster said they gutted the weekends. Here's to hoping they don't start DCA-JFK just to block slots at both airports!
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:26 pm

DL should discontinue SEA - PSC & add one more PSC - SLC flight. Let AS have Seattle.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:12 pm

dc10lover wrote:
DL should discontinue SEA - PSC & add one more PSC - SLC flight. Let AS have Seattle.


Cut a market that is four flights a day and just add one flight to a different hub? That makes no commercial sense.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 1088
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:55 am

JetAwayDrew wrote:
It looks like NK is starting to scale back on Its DFW focus city. Interesting.


That's a bit of a shock considering they're the third largest carrier out of DFW, surpassing UA, but behind DL and WAY behind AA.
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW, PHL, MIA, LAX; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), B739 (DL), B712 (DL), B752 (AA), B763 (AA), B77W (AA), B789 (AA)
Next: TBA
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:43 pm

dc10lover wrote:
DL should discontinue SEA - PSC & add one more PSC - SLC flight. Let AS have Seattle.


With the recent Alaska OneWorld announcement, it might be wise for Delta to cozy up to Horizon airlines to provide Delta feed to the Seattle International hub.

I am sure Horizon feeding Delta would be permitted as the OneWorld announcement is with Alaska AS only.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:09 pm

Seattle International feed needs will be dramatically changed once AA ramps up with the AS OneWorld membership

Will be interesting following Enilria’s Sunday OAG updates for changes in the future. Thanks in advance!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
dfw88
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:25 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:12 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
DL should discontinue SEA - PSC & add one more PSC - SLC flight. Let AS have Seattle.


With the recent Alaska OneWorld announcement, it might be wise for Delta to cozy up to Horizon airlines to provide Delta feed to the Seattle International hub.

I am sure Horizon feeding Delta would be permitted as the OneWorld announcement is with Alaska AS only.


What on earth are you talking about? You do know that Alaska Air Group, Alaska Airline's parent company, owns 100% of Horizon, right? Why would Alaska's parent company let their own subsidiary fly for a competitor out of their main hub?
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:14 pm

It has been done before... you should check out American Eagles history.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
alasizon
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:15 pm

dfw88 wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
DL should discontinue SEA - PSC & add one more PSC - SLC flight. Let AS have Seattle.


With the recent Alaska OneWorld announcement, it might be wise for Delta to cozy up to Horizon airlines to provide Delta feed to the Seattle International hub.

I am sure Horizon feeding Delta would be permitted as the OneWorld announcement is with Alaska AS only.


What on earth are you talking about? You do know that Alaska Air Group, Alaska Airline's parent company, owns 100% of Horizon, right? Why would Alaska's parent company let their own subsidiary fly for a competitor out of their main hub?


They wouldn't. Clearly the previous poster doesn't understand how the CPAs work or the full structure of AAG.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm

alasizon wrote:
dfw88 wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:

With the recent Alaska OneWorld announcement, it might be wise for Delta to cozy up to Horizon airlines to provide Delta feed to the Seattle International hub.

I am sure Horizon feeding Delta would be permitted as the OneWorld announcement is with Alaska AS only.


What on earth are you talking about? You do know that Alaska Air Group, Alaska Airline's parent company, owns 100% of Horizon, right? Why would Alaska's parent company let their own subsidiary fly for a competitor out of their main hub?


They wouldn't. Clearly the previous poster doesn't understand how the CPAs work or the full structure of AAG.



Read up on the entangled webs of American Eagle, American Connect, etc of the regionals.

The agreement is with Alaska Airlines not Horizon ... they are two separate airlines owned by one parent company.

Collusion and cooperation has got to be balanced or why does the government have a separately certificate airline that “competes,” in the industry in the first place.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
alasizon
Posts: 2608
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:24 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
alasizon wrote:
dfw88 wrote:

What on earth are you talking about? You do know that Alaska Air Group, Alaska Airline's parent company, owns 100% of Horizon, right? Why would Alaska's parent company let their own subsidiary fly for a competitor out of their main hub?


They wouldn't. Clearly the previous poster doesn't understand how the CPAs work or the full structure of AAG.



Read up on the entangled webs of American Eagle, American Connect, etc of the regionals.

The agreement is with Alaska Airlines not Horizon ... they are two separate airlines owned by one parent company.

Collusion and cooperation has got to be balanced or why does the government have a separately certificate airline that “competes,” in the industry in the first place.


No part of American Eagle (the original) ever operated for another carrier while still being owned by AA. Metro at one point operated for EA but that was before the purchase.

AS joining OW includes the QX and OO operated flights and that discussion belongs entirely in the appropriate thread.

To think that DL is going to start using QX for Regional feed is lunatic.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:33 pm

I reiterate

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Seattle International feed needs will be dramatically changed once AA ramps up with the AS OneWorld membership

Will be interesting following Enilria’s Sunday OAG updates for changes in the future. Thanks in advance!


Necessity creates strange bed fellows!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 869
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:48 pm

I also reiterate

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Seattle International feed needs will be dramatically changed once AA ramps up with the AS OneWorld membership

Will be interesting following Enilria’s Sunday OAG updates for changes in the future. Thanks in advance!


This OneWorld agreement is

AA and Alaska
NOT
AA and Horizon

At least until I hear and see different any way.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14583
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: OAG Changes 2/9/2020:NK Cuts BOSRDU,DEN-DFW/MSY,MSP-DFW/IAH,Adds LGAMCO;AS Adds PAEBOI;MU Ends HNLPVG,SFOTAO;SA IAD?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:57 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
alasizon wrote:
dfw88 wrote:

What on earth are you talking about? You do know that Alaska Air Group, Alaska Airline's parent company, owns 100% of Horizon, right? Why would Alaska's parent company let their own subsidiary fly for a competitor out of their main hub?


They wouldn't. Clearly the previous poster doesn't understand how the CPAs work or the full structure of AAG.



Read up on the entangled webs of American Eagle, American Connect, etc of the regionals.

The agreement is with Alaska Airlines not Horizon ... they are two separate airlines owned by one parent company.

Collusion and cooperation has got to be balanced or why does the government have a separately certificate airline that “competes,” in the industry in the first place.


To your last question, the government really doesn't care how many certificates an ownership group owns as long as all are in good standing. It would be permissible - though a logistical nightmare - for every single AA aircraft to be on a sperate certificate.
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