I do not have issues with piston engines. They can be more efficient than turboprops.

I have issues that modern aircraft Designs are using engines which use 1920s style magneto ignition, 6 litres plus displacement, leaded fuel (the engine allows avgas 100 UL which does not yet exist).

Tecnam does better with the P2010 TDI.

And yes, avgas explodes, jet a does not.

You obviously haven’t seen as many crashes as I have. Jet A will explode just fine, I’ve been in a mid-air to prove it to myself. It does have a higher flame point, so it takes more to set it off. Gas explodes only when in a confined space at the right saturation level.

Your issues might be with certification authorities who, like OEM, are very conservative.

GeeBeeRacer wrote:

I wonder if the P2012 electric will have an quick change battery pack. With the battery pack low under the fuselage it seems like a slide in / slide out arrangement would be a great feature. The batteries could be charged at each airport.

The article on the P-VLT mentions Rapid Recharging... not swapping. Interesting the way they are slung right to the bottom. 200nmi range w/ 9pax would be good enough for allot of the island hopping wouldn't it? I wonder what the recharge time would be and how that affects turn-arounds..

Aquila3 wrote:

Phosphorus wrote:

Uh oh. Be ready for some flak. In no particular order, on these topics:
1) Power-to-weight ratio still favours gasoline engine

Do you have any number in support of that thesis?
And does that power-to-weight ratio include also the fuel for a typical mission?
Not saying that you are wrong, but that you may be right only in a very limited environment.
Hint: I went to turbo-diesels 25 years ago and never looked back.

I drive diesel for 15 years now. Doesn't mean a thing for aviation.
Continental data: http://www.continental.aero/diesel/engines/cd300.aspx
I see 248.5 kg of dry weight and 221 kW power. I.e. more kilograms than kilowatts.

I don't have Lycoming data handy, but from memory, it's more than 1 kW/kg.

TheSonntag wrote:

I do not have issues with piston engines. They can be more efficient than turboprops.

I have issues that modern aircraft Designs are using engines which use 1920s style magneto ignition, 6 litres plus displacement, leaded fuel (the engine allows avgas 100 UL which does not yet exist).

Tecnam does better with the P2010 TDI.

And yes, avgas explodes, jet a does not.

So you can survive the explosion, but the ensuing fire doesn't matter? Regardless, it's hard to compare a 9 seat commuter airplane to a 4 seat leisure aircraft.

The Continental TDI (was once Thielert) engines have left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, after Thielert went tits up, and prices went thru the roof. There are lots of wear limited parts on the CD-155, that require total replacement, not overhaul, that simply makes them a non-starter for most people

Most of these issues have been overcome after Continental took over the programme. The CD155 is around 40kg heavier than the o-360 but range is the same due to lower fuel consumption. TBR is now 2100 hours and most parts have reasonable Times now.

Whether this also applies for the CD170 and CD300 remains to be seen.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

GeeBeeRacer wrote:

I wonder if the P2012 electric will have an quick change battery pack. With the battery pack low under the fuselage it seems like a slide in / slide out arrangement would be a great feature. The batteries could bnede charged at each airport.

The article on the P-VLT mentions Rapid Recharging... not swapping. Interesting the way they are slung right to the bottom. 200nmi range w/ 9pax would be good enough for allot of the island hopping wouldn't it? I wonder what the recharge time would be and how that affects turn-arounds..

The Tesla "Super Chargers" if comparable, claim a turn-around time of 30 minutes, which I think is to an 80% charge. A 30 minute charge time would be more-than-enough for any of Cape Air's scheduled flight lay-overs. No physical swapping would be necessary. However, the 1000 mile, 5 hour legs used for the P2012 ferry flights across the Atlantic would be nearly impossible for the electric.
As far other fueled engines are concerned, I believe if a certified 375hp to 400hp diesel piston engine using jet-A was available, Tecnam would use it in a flash.

Speaking of ferry flights, Cape Air's 18th P2012 (SN-024/US) is now half way across the Atlantic. I would guess that Cape Air will pause the deliveries at 20. I think they have a firm commencement to purchase 20 copies of the P2012 with an option for another 80 planes. At least until the airline business recovers.

Quite the stylish update their website, that's for sure. https://www.tecnam.com/aircraft/p2012-traveller/

Any new developments on this fine 9 pax plane?

Any news on the 19th and 20th deliveries for Cape Air? Cape Air website states an order for 102 P2012s (but it doesn't give the firm/options split).

Anecdotally the Cape Air O'Hare operation with EAS service to UIN and MBL does not seem to be going all that smoothly with tons of A/C downgrades to Cessnas and some cancellations..

Seems to be a mix of C402 and P2012. See https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KMBL/arrivals and look at the KAP flights. These aircraft fly directly over my house north of Chicago every day on the flights from ORD to MBL just before their turn over Lake Michigan and there is a distinct, yet subtle, noise difference between the C402 and the P212. The P212 has a slightly higher "sweeter" pitch than the C402. With no sun for last 6 weeks that is all I have as a clue as to which type of aircraft KAP is flying over my house!

RJNUT wrote:

Anecdotally the Cape Air O'Hare operation with EAS service to UIN and MBL does not seem to be going all that smoothly with tons of A/C downgrades to Cessnas and some cancellations..

Ironic for UIN more, as that's the very reason UIN went back to Cape Air from SkyWest, due to lots of cancellations under SkyWest to Chicago.

I realize you mentioned Anecdotally, but any statistics to show these cancellation rates?

Alex

Tecnam has a vaccine plane: https://jalopnik.com/an-italian-plane-m ... 1846076903

they’ve added a refrigeration system to Tecnam’s 11-seat P2012 mini-airliner that contains the specialized equipment necessary for vaccine transportation.

the Tecnam—named the P2012 TravelCare—can transport up to 115,000 COVID-19 vaccine doses per trip.

It appears that A/C N965CA has departed Italy for its journey to the US This is Cape Air's 19th.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N965CA

A/C N995CA is at LIKO-FkyOzanno awaiting delivery.

A/C N945 has moved to Cape's BIL base. It traveled on Sat/Sun
HYA-IAG-MBL-FCM-BIL No update to their schedule as to when it will go into service.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N945CA

Polot wrote:

When you are a small airline and the first operator of a type in the country getting through all the proper certifications can take forever. Just look how long it took Silver to get their ATRs into service (they were first operator of -600 variants in US). You have little priority and ability to push things through the FAA bureaucracy.

This is a very good point....from project management however, the expectation of 12-18m of Rigorous FAA oversight for a NEW TYPE FOREIGN BUILT to carry revenue flights should have been expected. Involving the FAA early is very important SPECIALLY when is NEW out of the box.
Cape Air will have 300-500h on the fleet by the time revenue flights begin. FAA has to check all the boxes on NEW TYPES... burden on first operator.

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/aircraf ... ric-model/

Now that the electric version of the 2012 has found a launch customer, I wonder if Cape Air could take delivery of this version at some point in the future. They definitely are interested in electric aviation seeing how they enthusiastically supported the Eviation Alice.

alberchico wrote:

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/aircraft/rolls-royce-tecnam-wideroe-electric-model/

Now that the electric version of the 2012 has found a launch customer, I wonder if Cape Air could take delivery of this version at some point in the future. They definitely are interested in electric aviation seeing how they enthusiastically supported the Eviation Alice.

Their handsome livery and 'green' tech really compliment one another..

Cape Air has ordered ten more P2012's according to FlightGlobal. Production is planned in 2021. In addition Cape Air has secured ten options to be produced in the 2022 production plan and ten options from the 2023 production plan. All are plan of the ongoing replacement of the Cessna 402C's.

Cape Air orders another 10 Tecnam P2012s

The 20th Tecnam-P2012 for Cape Air departed Italy yesterday April 2.
N995CA is on it's way to the US.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N995CA

SQ22 wrote:

Cape Air has ordered ten more P2012's according to FlightGlobal. Production is planned in 2021. In addition Cape Air has secured ten options to be produced in the 2022 production plan and ten options from the 2023 production plan. All are plan of the ongoing replacement of the Cessna 402C's.

Cape Air orders another 10 Tecnam P2012s

That is fantastic. It will bring the P2012 fleet to 30 at Cape Air by the end of this year. Just 50 more needed to replace all of the 402Cs.

Has anyone here on these forums had the priviledge of flying in one (pilot or passenger)?

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

Cape Air has ordered ten more P2012's according to FlightGlobal. Production is planned in 2021. In addition Cape Air has secured ten options to be produced in the 2022 production plan and ten options from the 2023 production plan. All are plan of the ongoing replacement of the Cessna 402C's.

Cape Air orders another 10 Tecnam P2012s

That is fantastic. It will bring the P2012 fleet to 30 at Cape Air by the end of this year. Just 50 more needed to replace all of the 402Cs.

Has anyone here on these forums had the priviledge of flying in one (pilot or passenger)?

I fly Cape Air between STL and MWA (MWA is 15 min from my hometown of Carbondale, Illinois).

I have been lucky to get the Tecnam twice. It is a very sweet plane. The onboard amenities are fantastic. All Leather Seats, reasonable legroom, huge windows, a cup holder, and a USB plug as well.

Regarding the operation it is a bit loud from the prop sound, a bit slower then the Cessna 402. I am not sensing a vibration or rushing sound from the landing gear not being retracted on the Tecnam.

From a comfort aspect, I vote for Tecnam over Cessna anytime!

I will be flying Cape Air MWA-STL in June, and MWA-BNA in July... hope to see the Tecnam again!

Alex

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

SQ22 wrote:

Cape Air has ordered ten more P2012's according to FlightGlobal. Production is planned in 2021. In addition Cape Air has secured ten options to be produced in the 2022 production plan and ten options from the 2023 production plan. All are plan of the ongoing replacement of the Cessna 402C's.

Cape Air orders another 10 Tecnam P2012s

That is fantastic. It will bring the P2012 fleet to 30 at Cape Air by the end of this year. Just 50 more needed to replace all of the 402Cs.

Has anyone here on these forums had the priviledge of flying in one (pilot or passenger)?

I am currently scheduled end of May for MBL-ORD , Ha!, then I'm taking the "L" from O'Hare to Midway to catch WN flight. to MCI . all this trouble just to try out the new Tecnam.!

As others have echoed as well, it will be interesting to see if CapeAir takes delivery of a few Electric versions of the Traveler as it proves itself and improves? Surely it's built in as an option in their options clause.

Atrude777 and RJNUT thanks for the feedback!

I saw a recent article that shows new connectivity agreements between Cape Air (Airline responsible for p-twentytwelve development) and Delta Airlines for 11 locations from Boston. Cap Air passengers will earn miles on Delta.

https://news.delta.com/delta-strengthen ... rtheast-us

Many of the cities on that connectivity agreement are EAS locations (8 of them, e.g. Saranac Lake) that were awarded because of Cape Air's promise to offer the P2012 on the route, necessary to provide ameneties like air conditioning, phone charging etc..).

Anyway, it might give us some insight into where Cape Air will be deploying a number of it's P2012 aircraft.

It doesn't appear that Cape Air has received authority to permit the use of P.E.D. during flight on the P2012Traveller. I know that was one of their goals with the aircraft and that certification effort began soon after they accepted the delivery of their first couple of aircraft.

RJNUT wrote:

I am currently scheduled end of May for MBL-ORD , Ha!, then I'm taking the "L" from O'Hare to Midway to catch WN flight. to MCI . all this trouble just to try out the new Tecnam.!

How did that flight go? What was the experience like?

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

RJNUT wrote:

I am currently scheduled end of May for MBL-ORD , Ha!, then I'm taking the "L" from O'Hare to Midway to catch WN flight. to MCI . all this trouble just to try out the new Tecnam.!

How did that flight go? What was the experience like?

i ended up flying via OHARE All on UA and have a credit on Cape Air for future!

I started doing a bit of research on Tecnam... and found that the Pescale brothers first built aircraft under a company called Partenavia. One of the aircraft that they developed was the P68 (Partenavia/Tecnam name their aircraft with a 'P' for Pescale followed by the year that production work begins... P68- 1968, P2012 - 2012). The P68 was a 6 pax aircraft powered by twin Lycoming O-360 engines. When you look at photos of it (especially as it was produced for police duty - clear nose aside), you can see the P2012 is inspired by the P68, despite being a clean-sheet design.







Getting back to transparent nose.... How is this for a view?


Nominally the P2012 is 8' longer than the P68 (P68 had varying lengths from 29' to 32'). There was a stretched version, the Partenavia AP68TP-600 Viator, that had a high density seating capacity of 9... That program, as well as all P68s, are now the property of VulcanAir and is called the A-Viator.. https://www.vulcanair.com/a-viator With a length of 37', it's just shy of the more modern P2012's 38'9" length.

Anyway, I thought it was fascinating to read a bit about the forerunner aircraft.

Back to the P2012 Traveller, here it is in revenue service with Zil Air



Tecnam is also developing a derivative for special mission purposes. The Tecnam P2012 Sentinel SMP

Nice video of the P2012 at Sun n' Fun 2021.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS44K33Teng

These planes are a good replacement for out of production aircraft link the Cessna 402C and Fiarchaild Swearinger Metroliner that still see use throughout the world
Here's a good example at the least used airport in the continental USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64DkJDCkIgE

Is the P2012 a good match for airlines that fly other such aircraft, where the 2.5million price tag is not an issue?

Another P2012 on delivery to Cape Air today. N135CA is over Eastern England heading North.

Excellent news. I was just reading in the Textron Cessna 408 Sky Courier thread that that plane is only going to be certified for 9 pax in the USA. If not moving cargo, and not moving more pax, there isn't much incentive to pick that plane over the Tecnam P2012 Traveller. I had wondered why the Sky Courier wasn't gaining much traction yet. Of course, this plane, the Traveller, hasn't seen any sales in the USA outside of Cape Air. Could be that Cape Air has the bulk of early delivery slots? Perhaps other carriers are waiting to see how the aircraft works out for Cape Air before placing their orders later on as delivery slots free-up?

EIther way, nice to see Cape Air getting another one.I wonder how off they are from having thier targeted 30 by the end of 2021?

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

. Of course, this plane, the Traveller, hasn't seen any sales in the USA outside of Cape Air. Could be that Cape Air has the bulk of early delivery slots? Perhaps other carriers are waiting to see how the aircraft works out for Cape Air before placing their orders later on as delivery slots free-up?

Consider that the other operators of 8/9-seat airplanes are content with flying Caravans or PC-12s (of which most were acquired used and are readily available used). The manufacturer advertises its uses in cargo and MedEvac missions. I think the PC-12 has the lock on MedEvac, and the economics don't quite fit the cargo role (at least in the US).

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

These planes are a good replacement for out of production aircraft link the Cessna 402C and Fiarchaild Swearinger Metroliner

Not comparable to a Metroliner, which is a much heavier, faster (and much more thirsty) airplane.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

EIther way, nice to see Cape Air getting another one.I wonder how off they are from having thier targeted 30 by the end of 2021?

It has accepted 25 so far.....

Here's a nice piece of news. Apex Flight School in Taiwan has ordered two P2012 Travellers for providing scenic tours of the mountains and islands of Taiwan. They are scheduled to arrive next month.
Of course this requires the aircraft to recieve CAA certification which may bode well for the program throughout Asia.

Nice looking livery. Makes it look kind of sporty.



https://taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/arc ... 2003764729

Another route announcement for the Tecnam P2012 Traveller. Quincy Illinois for 36 weekly round trip flights for Cape Air. That's some decent utlization. Destinations of Chicago (Ohare) and StLouis.

Would be cool to understand how CapeAir handles a station like that. Is it two planes, one stationed in Chicago and the Other in St. Louis (which is better for swapping in spares to the support the flights). Or does Quincy have a mini-fleet of 2 to 3 aircraft stationed there? Just neat to see an EAS station get that many flights, that regularly. Fun stuff. Nice to see this little plane continuing to exploit a niche.

https://wgem.com/2021/09/27/cape-air-to ... ore-years/

[photoid][/photoid]

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Another route announcement for the Tecnam P2012 Traveller. Quincy Illinois for 36 weekly round trip flights for Cape Air. That's some decent utlization. Destinations of Chicago (Ohare) and StLouis.

Would be cool to understand how CapeAir handles a station like that. Is it two planes, one stationed in Chicago and the Other in St. Louis (which is better for swapping in spares to the support the flights). Or does Quincy have a mini-fleet of 2 to 3 aircraft stationed there? Just neat to see an EAS station get that many flights, that regularly. Fun stuff. Nice to see this little plane continuing to exploit a niche.

https://wgem.com/2021/09/27/cape-air-to ... ore-years/

I don’t know the answer to your question about where the aircraft are based, but they do something very similar in southern Illinois at MWA (Marion, IL). In that case the flights are split between STL and BNA. It is a fascinating operation!

https://veteransairport.com/airlines-fl ... -schedule/

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Another route announcement for the Tecnam P2012 Traveller. Quincy Illinois for 36 weekly round trip flights for Cape Air. That's some decent utlization. Destinations of Chicago (Ohare) and StLouis.

That's the current schedule. Two airplanes overnight in Quincy. Flight crews based at Quincy. Planes may be traded at STL for the Marion or Owensboro airplanes.

MO11 wrote:

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

Another route announcement for the Tecnam P2012 Traveller. Quincy Illinois for 36 weekly round trip flights for Cape Air. That's some decent utlization. Destinations of Chicago (Ohare) and StLouis.

That's the current schedule. Two airplanes overnight in Quincy. Flight crews based at Quincy. Planes may be traded at STL for the Marion or Owensboro airplanes.

That's make sense... Of course the first flight each day would be commuter flights from Quincy to the two larger airports. That's a nice steady gig for the flight crews based in Quincy. Good for them!

We will be treated to see P2012s replacing the 402Cs slowly but surely. Each time we will learn a little something about how a small commuter airline like Cape Air manages it's people and assets. Fun stuff all around.

Cape Air's 25th P2012 has stararted the journey to the US
N335CA s/n 035/US

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N335CA

Here is another piece of news on the Apex Flight Academy in Taiwan which is using the Tecnam P2012. Seems that they are the first in the country to do these kind of sky tours.
Looks interesting

http://www.smartaviation-apac.com/2021/ ... -charters/

I've been waiting for Apex Flight Academy to take their new P2012 on the ferry flight back to Taiwan. It looks like they have arrived in Taiwan on Tuesday. The following (Google Translated) was posted on Instagram:
"2 days ago
P2012✈ Arrived in Taiwan on Tuesday and returned to the warm home in Taitung on Wednesday! Ansett’s new aircraft set sail in Italy and now it has arrived in South Korea. After a day’s rest, it is expected to fly to Taoyuan Airport at noon on Tuesday (approximately 1230). On Wednesday morning (expected to take off at 08:30, Taoyuan Airport) 1000 landed at Taitung Airport) and flew back to Ansett’s main base in Taitung! Aviation fans and those who like photography, welcome to catch the iron bird that first appeared in the sky of Taiwan! Continue to master the P2012 flight trajectory: https://www.flightradar24.com/IPDVD/29daa0c5"

It looks like they flew through Russia to get to Taiwan. A long ferry flight. There are many photos on Instagram of the plane landing in Taiwan.

I saw news today on the P2012 PVolt. Performance specs were reported in this article:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 00.article

Interesting... The P-Volt will fly 10% of the distance at 75% of the cruise of the Lycoming powered plane. Planned entry into service is 2026 (Wideroe). Tecnam is working with Rolls Royce.

You have to imagine this is rather state of the art, so the performance figures are sobering and give some insight into the challenges of replacing fossil fuels in aviation. P2012 and P-Volt is a rather direct apples to apples comparison, so it indicates we have a way to go.

Even still, they've outlined an 'upgrade' program to go from P2012 Petrol to the P-Volt...

https://www.prweb.com/releases/tecnam_a ... 337014.htm

Other news released tis weekend was news of further teething/reliability problems with the P2012 at Cape Air. I haven't been able to find out what they are specifically (avionics, engines, other?). There were comments in a local Manistee MA newspaper article related to that:

https://www.manisteenews.com/insider/ar ... #taboola-1

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

I saw news today on the P2012 PVolt. Performance specs were reported in this article:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 00.article

Interesting... The P-Volt will fly 10% of the distance at 75% of the cruise of the Lycoming powered plane. Planned entry into service is 2026 (Wideroe). Tecnam is working with Rolls Royce.

You have to imagine this is rather state of the art, so the performance figures are sobering and give some insight into the challenges of replacing fossil fuels in aviation. P2012 and P-Volt is a rather direct apples to apples comparison, so it indicates we have a way to go.

Even still, they've outlined an 'upgrade' program to go from P2012 Petrol to the P-Volt...

https://www.prweb.com/releases/tecnam_a ... 337014.htm

Other news released tis weekend was news of further teething/reliability problems with the P2012 at Cape Air. I haven't been able to find out what they are specifically (avionics, engines, other?). There were comments in a local Manistee MA newspaper article related to that:

https://www.manisteenews.com/insider/ar ... #taboola-1

It won’t let us read the Manistee article as it’s behind a pay wall.

I was on Cape Air’s first flight out of Manistee, Michigan back in October of 2020 made a trip report about it but I can’t post it here cause of the forum rules. But I have noticed that the Cessna 402 is swapped in for the P2012 I’d say at least half of the time in Manistee. Even in the first week of service in the city, the only flight on the P2012 was the inaugural I was on, then for the next week it was the C402.

For all of the EAS contracts they have, they bid the P2012, and say “Newer, faster, more comfortable” which are all true. But then flights to these communities are constantly being swapped to the C402 which while a fun ride for aviation enthusiasts, regular passengers like that aircraft a lot less.

Doesn’t seem right for them to bid these communities probably knowing they will send the older plane for half the time.

P2012 P-Volt
8157lb Ramp Wt 9000lb
3117lb Useful Load 1780lb
1925lb Full Fuel Payload 1780lb
1188lb Energy storage 2420 lb
Avgas Battery pack
2x 375hp T/O power 2x 430hp
950nm Max Range 85nm Today's tech, 145nm projected 2030 tech
173Ktas Typical Cruise 120Ktas
194Ktas (FL100) Max Speed 180ktas (FL50)

Note: Range is computed with battery at the end of life (90% SOH) and it includes reserves. Today's tech and 2030 projection are referred to the energy storage system.

The Flight Global article is paywalled. But I copied the above from:
https://www.aviacionline.com/2021/11/du ... traveller/

Wow, It is harder to read than what I tediously typed in. Maybe someone more savvy could post the chart?

At any rate it is a disappointing commentary on what we already know: Current lithium battery tech is woefully inadequate for air transportation. An evolution of lithium isn't going to cut it. We need energy storage as far beyond lithium, as lithium is beyond lead acid.

I note also that it takes some pretty advanced math to claim a fully loaded P2012 can fly 950nm even with vfr reserves, no alternate no wind on 198 gallons of fuel.

A 404 (operated rich of peak as all 402/404 commercial operators do) would have about a 700nm range on 198 gallons with 30 minutes reserve, no alternate, no wind. About 450-550nm for real world planning with wind, weather and alternates.

The larger, draggier P2012 would magically have to burn 3/4 the fuel of a 404 Titan to fly 950nm. Fadec and lean burn IS magic compared to ROP manual mixture on the 404, but not that magic.

I'm not trying shoot down the P-volt. It would be fantastic to have a commercially useful quiet emission free airplane, and I think it will happen at some point. I'm just illustrating the marketing numbers on gasoline powered plane because the electric projections are probably equally optimistic.

Anyone know what the production rate is for the Traveler, it seems to have picked up nicely.

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

I saw news today on the P2012 PVolt. Performance specs were reported in this article:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers ... 00.article

Interesting... The P-Volt will fly 10% of the distance at 75% of the cruise of the Lycoming powered plane. Planned entry into service is 2026 (Wideroe). Tecnam is working with Rolls Royce.

You have to imagine this is rather state of the art, so the performance figures are sobering and give some insight into the challenges of replacing fossil fuels in aviation. P2012 and P-Volt is a rather direct apples to apples comparison, so it indicates we have a way to go.

Even still, they've outlined an 'upgrade' program to go from P2012 Petrol to the P-Volt...

https://www.prweb.com/releases/tecnam_a ... 337014.htm

Other news released tis weekend was news of further teething/reliability problems with the P2012 at Cape Air. I haven't been able to find out what they are specifically (avionics, engines, other?). There were comments in a local Manistee MA newspaper article related to that:

https://www.manisteenews.com/insider/ar ... #taboola-1

It won’t let us read the Manistee article as it’s behind a pay wall.

I was on Cape Air’s first flight out of Manistee, Michigan back in October of 2020 made a trip report about it but I can’t post it here cause of the forum rules. But I have noticed that the Cessna 402 is swapped in for the P2012 I’d say at least half of the time in Manistee. Even in the first week of service in the city, the only flight on the P2012 was the inaugural I was on, then for the next week it was the C402.

For all of the EAS contracts they have, they bid the P2012, and say “Newer, faster, more comfortable” which are all true. But then flights to these communities are constantly being swapped to the C402 which while a fun ride for aviation enthusiasts, regular passengers like that aircraft a lot less.

Doesn’t seem right for them to bid these communities probably knowing they will send the older plane for half the time.

Just like Southern Airways Express getting Chadron, NE EAS gig touting BE 350, yet seems Caravans are the usual plane. Bait and switch at it's best LOL.

sprxUSA wrote:

Just like Southern Airways Express getting Chadron, NE EAS gig touting BE 350, yet seems Caravans are the usual plane. Bait and switch at it's best LOL.

I don't know that it's intentional. They are reporting reliability issues with the planes, not being shy to mention it to the media. They've already taken 25 of them over the course of 3 years so they should be beyond initial teething problems, no?.

They literally have enough to replace nearly 30% of the Cessna fleet, so there are probably enough for these new EAS routes they've acquired. They've got to be somewhat disappointed as this plane was specifically built for them. I wonder if they are finding the Lycomings on the P2012 than the Continentals on the 402s?

I'm so excited that a new fuel efficient 9pax plane is on the market. I hope the dispatch reliability improves.

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

sprxUSA wrote:

Just like Southern Airways Express getting Chadron, NE EAS gig touting BE 350, yet seems Caravans are the usual plane. Bait and switch at it's best LOL.

I don't know that it's intentional. They are reporting reliability issues with the planes, not being shy to mention it to the media. They've already taken 25 of them over the course of 3 years so they should be beyond initial teething problems, no?.
.

That's what 9K did with Quincy and Burlington (the latter of which they secured a few days ago). They pitch the Tecnam, but it ends up being a mixture. Reliability and shit.

Lycoming has had to do a lot of engine replacements on our current Tecnam fleet. I know one guy from Lycoming who's actually renting in St. Louis because he has to come out here so often. It's insane.

maps4ltd wrote:

Lycoming has had to do a lot of engine replacements on our current Tecnam fleet. I know one guy from Lycoming who's actually renting in St. Louis because he has to come out here so often. It's insane.

Is it a specific problem with new technology developed for the engine? I mean you don't stay relevant for 64 years if you aren't reliable (Lycoming O-540 produced from 1957 on). Is it turbos on the TEO-540? Is it the new independent cyclinder injection & management (iE2) not adjusting mixture correctly and just subjecting them to harder operation, leading to premature life?

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

maps4ltd wrote:

Lycoming has had to do a lot of engine replacements on our current Tecnam fleet. I know one guy from Lycoming who's actually renting in St. Louis because he has to come out here so often. It's insane.

Is it a specific problem with new technology developed for the engine? I mean you don't stay relevant for 64 years if you aren't reliable (Lycoming O-540 produced from 1957 on). Is it turbos on the TEO-540? Is it the new independent cyclinder injection & management (iE2) not adjusting mixture correctly and just subjecting them to harder operation, leading to premature life?

I'm not a mechanic so I can't specify. But the Tecnams have been hangar queens. I know with the engines on the Tecnams you have to actually get a computer and perform diagnostic downloads or something, which can take a while. The Continentals you can just remove the cowling and get to work.

maps4ltd wrote:

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:

maps4ltd wrote:

Lycoming has had to do a lot of engine replacements on our current Tecnam fleet. I know one guy from Lycoming who's actually renting in St. Louis because he has to come out here so often. It's insane.

Is it a specific problem with new technology developed for the engine? I mean you don't stay relevant for 64 years if you aren't reliable (Lycoming O-540 produced from 1957 on). Is it turbos on the TEO-540? Is it the new independent cyclinder injection & management (iE2) not adjusting mixture correctly and just subjecting them to harder operation, leading to premature life?

I'm not a mechanic so I can't specify. But the Tecnams have been hangar queens. I know with the engines on the Tecnams you have to actually get a computer and perform diagnostic downloads or something, which can take a while. The Continentals you can just remove the cowling and get to work.

This video starting at 55 seconds in explains it. This aircraft utilizes a brand new engine with full FADEC controls that allow the mixture control levers to be removed. That would explain the teething issues that requires special infrastructure to troubleshoot. So a new airframe coupled with a new powerplant. No wonder there are some nagging issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKXJr3 ... nnel=AVweb

Apex Academy received it's P2012 two weeks ago... It flew over Siberia as part of the ferry flight... It received a nice inaugaration in Taiwan.



http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=m ... b05b3e6b4e