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TC957
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:33 pm

CONFIRMED ! VS going back - seasonally at least - to CPT. Daylight flight back. daily 787 service.
VS 478 / 479. Going on sale 20 Feb.
 
factsonly
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:19 pm

Virgin Atlantic Cargo will launch a new service from London Heathrow to Cape Town, from October 25, utilising a Boeing 787-9 as part of its winter schedule.

In addition, the carrier will increase its capacity to Cuba.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/v ... le-update/
 
x1234
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:29 pm

I just noticed a pattern, VS destinations are either high yielding destinations to former British colonies or very high in population (DEL + BOM in India, PVG + HKG in China) or has a very high amount of US connecting traffic (TLV JNB CPT). The Americas is higher yielding than East with no price competition. They launched GRU which will help with the DL/LATAM alliance. Is there demand for another carrier on CUN or MEX or YYZ or YVR. Canada also has Westjet which they recently codeshares on.
 
KAUSavgeek
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Ishrion wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
I've heard the rumor that VS is interested in SAN and AUS, BA is doing quite well on these two routes and I believe there's a room for VS to step in.


If it’s Austin, that’ll be pretty insane.

KLM to Amsterdam, Norwegian adding an addition LGW frequency and starting CDG...

Can they sustain a third carrier to London?



Being from AUS, I would love to see it. But I don't think its possible to have 6 TATL's at a time
 
p468
Topic Author
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:01 am

factsonly wrote:
Virgin Atlantic Cargo will launch a new service from London Heathrow to Cape Town, from October 25, utilising a Boeing 787-9 as part of its winter schedule.

In addition, the carrier will increase its capacity to Cuba.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/v ... le-update/


So maybe not a winter schedule announcement and probably old news now. But that article quotes "new daily services from Heathrow to Sao Paulo, twice-daily Delhi flights and increased Heathrow-San Francisco flights, all of which take effect from March"

DEL will go twice daily, JNB will be a A350. What I'm slightly confused about is in W20 from LHR they will have a daily 789 flying to CPT. HAV will increase from 2 weekly to 3 weekly, but going from an A330 to 787. Question is where are they getting a the extra slots and b the 787 availability. Is this expansion if you want to call it coming from culling of another route?
 
Williamsb747
Posts: 143
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:59 am

p468 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
Virgin Atlantic Cargo will launch a new service from London Heathrow to Cape Town, from October 25, utilising a Boeing 787-9 as part of its winter schedule.

In addition, the carrier will increase its capacity to Cuba.

https://www.aircargonews.net/airlines/v ... le-update/


So maybe not a winter schedule announcement and probably old news now. But that article quotes "new daily services from Heathrow to Sao Paulo, twice-daily Delhi flights and increased Heathrow-San Francisco flights, all of which take effect from March"

DEL will go twice daily, JNB will be a A350. What I'm slightly confused about is in W20 from LHR they will have a daily 789 flying to CPT. HAV will increase from 2 weekly to 3 weekly, but going from an A330 to 787. Question is where are they getting a the extra slots and b the 787 availability. Is this expansion if you want to call it coming from culling of another route?


The B789 availability comes from the A35K replacing B789 on services, SFO 1 B789 and JNB 2 B789 siting idle for nearly 12 hours at JNB on the top of my head.


Williams-,
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
TC957
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:45 am

LHR - HAV is still showing as twice a week on the A330 in Galileo GDS. Seems Lagos will go to A350 next winter.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:00 am

x1234 wrote:
I just noticed a pattern, VS destinations are either high yielding destinations to former British colonies or very high in population (DEL + BOM in India, PVG + HKG in China) or has a very high amount of US connecting traffic (TLV JNB CPT). The Americas is higher yielding than East with no price competition. They launched GRU which will help with the DL/LATAM alliance. Is there demand for another carrier on CUN or MEX or YYZ or YVR. Canada also has Westjet which they recently codeshares on.

What you are seeing is probably where the highest yield and demand from London is. If you look at the BA network, the US, Middle East and South Africa are well represented. Asia and South America less so. The new VS routes are in the regions that have been launched by BA with their 787 fleet, DUR, ISB, AUS, MSY, etc VS have finally begun to follow the money, rather than route-map vanity.
p468 wrote:
DEL will go twice daily, JNB will be a A350. What I'm slightly confused about is in W20 from LHR they will have a daily 789 flying to CPT. HAV will increase from 2 weekly to 3 weekly, but going from an A330 to 787. Question is where are they getting a the extra slots and b the 787 availability. Is this expansion if you want to call it coming from culling of another route?

I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.
 
grjplanes
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:16 pm

BA also announced the seasonal LGW-CPT flight will increase from 3 to 5 weekly from January 2021...this is in additiona to the 2 daily LHR flights.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:22 pm

grjplanes wrote:
BA also announced the seasonal LGW-CPT flight will increase from 3 to 5 weekly from January 2021...this is in additiona to the 2 daily LHR flights.


Whilst this is clearly in response to the VS LHR-CPT service, I wonder if BA’s announcement of LHR-NQY is an attempt to stop the rumoured slot swap with AF/KL?
 
B-HOP
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:42 pm

I start to wonder is the HKG flights safe in long term?
Live life to max!!!
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:47 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.


It seems to me they'll need those 789s back in service ASAP even to be able to cover their planned summer schedule... The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON). The 332s and 744s are already spoken for on MAN and LGW routes, and the 35K schedule will require 6 frames operational.

I suppose if the 789s aren't an option, VS will have to add a few more 346 rotations (probably to JFK).
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Arion640
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:50 pm

B-HOP wrote:
I start to wonder is the HKG flights safe in long term?


Likely. It’s a busy business route and a former colony.
 
NateGreat
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:16 pm

FSDan wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.


It seems to me they'll need those 789s back in service ASAP even to be able to cover their planned summer schedule... The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON). The 332s and 744s are already spoken for on MAN and LGW routes, and the 35K schedule will require 6 frames operational.

I suppose if the 789s aren't an option, VS will have to add a few more 346 rotations (probably to JFK).

Why are there so many 333s on JFK? I thought the A35Ks were doing most of the JFK flights now.
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm

NateGreat wrote:
FSDan wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.


It seems to me they'll need those 789s back in service ASAP even to be able to cover their planned summer schedule... The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON). The 332s and 744s are already spoken for on MAN and LGW routes, and the 35K schedule will require 6 frames operational.

I suppose if the 789s aren't an option, VS will have to add a few more 346 rotations (probably to JFK).

Why are there so many 333s on JFK? I thought the A35Ks were doing most of the JFK flights now.


The 35Ks are scheduled to operate 2 of 5 daily LHR-JFK frequencies going by May/June schedules.
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p468
Topic Author
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:00 pm

BrianDromey wrote:
p468 wrote:
DEL will go twice daily, JNB will be a A350. What I'm slightly confused about is in W20 from LHR they will have a daily 789 flying to CPT. HAV will increase from 2 weekly to 3 weekly, but going from an A330 to 787. Question is where are they getting a the extra slots and b the 787 availability. Is this expansion if you want to call it coming from culling of another route?

I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.


Yes, I think they have 2/3 dreamliners parked up at LHR, a quick check online and you'd be able to see which 787 have been flying / sat idle at LHR.

FSDan wrote:
It seems to me they'll need those 789s back in service ASAP even to be able to cover their planned summer schedule... The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON). The 332s and 744s are already spoken for on MAN and LGW routes, and the 35K schedule will require 6 frames operational.

I suppose if the 789s aren't an option, VS will have to add a few more 346 rotations (probably to JFK).


You're correct I think the A333 fleet is most definitely stretched. The 332s on the other hand, it's my understanding were brought in on a medium term lease. The 332s were ex Air Berlin, which conveniently provided immediate aircraft availability at a crucial time for VS. Air Berlin went under, just as the RR issues were grounding aircraft. I think they only have 3 346 in their fleet atm, but they're phasing them out this year

So if the 332s return, wave bye to 346s, they'll (by the face value look at it) will still be short, no?

As touched upon earlier in this thread and others, the 339 order is a direct replacement for the current fleet. The lesiure 350s are direct (like for like) replacements for the 744, so where's the ac for the growth?
 
TC957
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:33 pm

There's currently 2 inactive VS 789's - VOOH & VNYL. The next 350's are MSN 415 & 426, so they should be delivered by early summer and if they get prototype MSN 71 by then as well, means VS will have 7 A350's on line. LHR-JFK will be 3 x 350 most days from mid-summer, so that'll free up an A333.
 
User001
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:25 pm

FSDan wrote:
The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON).


There’s also a 2nd A333 at MAN for peak summer, as it operates the 2nd MCO on Friday’s, a couple of the LAS rotations and IIRC, one of the BGI rotations too.
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:20 am

User001 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON).


There’s also a 2nd A333 at MAN for peak summer, as it operates the 2nd MCO on Friday’s, a couple of the LAS rotations and IIRC, one of the BGI rotations too.


The only 333 flight I'm seeing out of MAN in the June schedules is the ATL flight (which presumably is a rotation from LHR).
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
User001
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:52 am

FSDan wrote:
User001 wrote:
FSDan wrote:
The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON).


There’s also a 2nd A333 at MAN for peak summer, as it operates the 2nd MCO on Friday’s, a couple of the LAS rotations and IIRC, one of the BGI rotations too.


The only 333 flight I'm seeing out of MAN in the June schedules is the ATL flight (which presumably is a rotation from LHR).


Have a look from July onwards as I can assure you the flights I've described are A333. Like I say, the 1110 VS73 MAN-MCO on Fridays is probably the easiest one to spot.
 
sixfootscream
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:02 am

Welcome back to CPT, VS.

Good on them for not staying on ground in CPT. Same as LH to MUC. In and out.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:02 am

p468 wrote:
You're correct I think the A333 fleet is most definitely stretched. The 332s on the other hand, it's my understanding were brought in on a medium term lease. The 332s were ex Air Berlin, which conveniently provided immediate aircraft availability at a crucial time for VS. Air Berlin went under, just as the RR issues were grounding aircraft. I think they only have 3 346 in their fleet atm, but they're phasing them out this year


The publicity doing the rounds at the time was that the ex-Air Berlin -200's were on 4 year leases. The neo's on order are due to start being delivered from next year which ties in with that and the first -300's coming towards the end of their 10 year leases they were reportedly on from new.

Nothing to stop leases being extended mind.
 
p468
Topic Author
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:07 pm

So it turns out VS are trickling their route announcements a little at a time. They've just announced MAN-DEL flying 3 weekly on a A332. A PM departure from MAN and a day return from DEL. STD 1640 STA 0605+1. Two hour turn means they'd be departing DEL 0810 arriving 1210.
Question is, will a 1210 arrival into MAN mean they can operate the aircraft for another departure? Looking at their current schedule from MAN, this seems very unlikely, unless they move one of their westbound routes from MAN to depart later in the day?

Source https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... ober-2020/
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:30 pm

p468 wrote:
So it turns out VS are trickling their route announcements a little at a time. They've just announced MAN-DEL flying 3 weekly on a A332. A PM departure from MAN and a day return from DEL. STD 1640 STA 0605+1. Two hour turn means they'd be departing DEL 0810 arriving 1210.
Question is, will a 1210 arrival into MAN mean they can operate the aircraft for another departure? Looking at their current schedule from MAN, this seems very unlikely, unless they move one of their westbound routes from MAN to depart later in the day?

Source https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... ober-2020/


The MAN-ATL and MAN-JFK flights are moving to late-afternoon departures for W20. It was strange when this was first picked up on earlier this week as it leaves very limited connection opportunities at the JFK and ATL ends due to their arrival times, but now with DEL announced and seeing the times of that flight, it all begins to make some sense even if it obliterates connection opportunities heading west into the US or beyond.

It makes you wonder if an earlier flight to JFK/ATL or another DL hub is in the pipeline to at least offer same-day MAN-US connectivity, otherwise this will push MAN originating traffic who use VS for DL connections to look at other options such as AA or UA.
 
User001
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:32 pm

p468 wrote:
So it turns out VS are trickling their route announcements a little at a time. They've just announced MAN-DEL flying 3 weekly on a A332. A PM departure from MAN and a day return from DEL. STD 1640 STA 0605+1. Two hour turn means they'd be departing DEL 0810 arriving 1210.
Question is, will a 1210 arrival into MAN mean they can operate the aircraft for another departure? Looking at their current schedule from MAN, this seems very unlikely, unless they move one of their westbound routes from MAN to depart later in the day?

Source https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... ober-2020/


They have moved ATL from 1105 to 1555 and JFK from 1300 to 1615 (1640 weds).

Both those flights now become useless for onward connections in the US, which is the life blood of MAN-ATL in particular so will be interesting to see the motive and remedy to these time changes.
 
Arion640
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:54 pm

Virgin seem to be on a mission to build up MAN. Definitely becoming a hub player.
 
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MaxiAir
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:12 pm

So on page one, a leisure config for the A350-1000 was mentioned, given that the fleet will only consist of 12, I question the feasibility of having such small subfleets.
And if so, is the final config known? I did play around a bit, sadly I have no to scale LOPA available for the Virgin 35K, but my guess would be somewhat 16C 56W and around 350Y.
But a total of 12 and only 8 still due to replace 3 346 and 7 744 plus enabling a bit of growth seems like not enough.
Flown on - 306,313,318,319,320,321,332,333,343,345,346,359,35K,388, 712,733,734,735,736,73G,738,744,748,752,753,763,77E,77L,77W, 788, 789, M11, M1F, M88, CR7,CR9, E35,E45,E75,E90,E95, AR1,AR8, DHT,DH1,DH4, and some more ;)
 
TC957
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:25 pm

VS confirmed what many of us have said they would in announcing a new 3 x weekly MAN - DEL flight from 26 Oct on the A332.
MAN - BGI is also seeing increased frequencies compared to this winter.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:26 pm

MaxiAir wrote:
So on page one, a leisure config for the A350-1000 was mentioned, given that the fleet will only consist of 12, I question the feasibility of having such small subfleets.
And if so, is the final config known? I did play around a bit, sadly I have no to scale LOPA available for the Virgin 35K, but my guess would be somewhat 16C 56W and around 350Y.


It was announced at the time of the order the later-build A350's specifically for leisure routes such as MCO will have around 410 seats...

https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin ... 100-order/

I'm sure the config will be revealed soon, but I expect there will be less Upper seats, more Y seats and undoubtedly additional PE seats.

Having two different configs isn't an alien concept. For years, VS operated 747-400's with 2 different configs: aircraft with one config was based at LHR and aircraft with the other config (i.e. less Upper seats, more Y and PE seats) used on leisure routes out of LGW, MAN, GLA etc. The issues start if they substitute one another which seemed rare from past experience, however the use of the leisure 747's on routes such as MAN-JFK wasn't ideal as they only have 14 Upper seats.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:29 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Virgin seem to be on a mission to build up MAN. Definitely becoming a hub player.


It’s moving that way, albeit slowly.

This breaks VS away from TATL only at MAN, which is a step forward, but a 3x weekly seasonal service falls some way short of viable hub operations so there is more to be done.
 
p468
Topic Author
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:28 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Virgin seem to be on a mission to build up MAN. Definitely becoming a hub player.


It’s moving that way, albeit slowly.

This breaks VS away from TATL only at MAN, which is a step forward, but a 3x weekly seasonal service falls some way short of viable hub operations so there is more to be done.


Fair, a 3 weekly definitely a far cry away from being a hub carrier. But I think VS are onto something bigger at MAN. They're opening their flagship lounge aka clubhouse at MAN, which I guess says something about their MAN plans / ambitions
 
Arion640
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:22 pm

p468 wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Virgin seem to be on a mission to build up MAN. Definitely becoming a hub player.


It’s moving that way, albeit slowly.

This breaks VS away from TATL only at MAN, which is a step forward, but a 3x weekly seasonal service falls some way short of viable hub operations so there is more to be done.


Fair, a 3 weekly definitely a far cry away from being a hub carrier. But I think VS are onto something bigger at MAN. They're opening their flagship lounge aka clubhouse at MAN, which I guess says something about their MAN plans / ambitions


If flybe falls apart that’s likely to hamper efforts though as they’re supposed to be providing feed.
 
FSDan
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:54 pm

FSDan wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
I think they have a 787 or two out of service, parked at LHR with RR engine problems? Perhaps this provides a bit of availability too. The A339 isn't due until 2021.


It seems to me they'll need those 789s back in service ASAP even to be able to cover their planned summer schedule... The 333 fleet appears to be overscheduled for S20 right now (I'm counting 13 frames needed to cover LHR-MIA x1, LHR-ATL x1, MAN-ATL x1, LHR-IAD x1, LHR-EWR x1, LHR-JFK x3 (including a JFK and a LHR RON), LHR-BOS x2 (including a BOS and a LHR RON), and LHR-TLV x1 with a TLV RON). The 332s and 744s are already spoken for on MAN and LGW routes, and the 35K schedule will require 6 frames operational.

I suppose if the 789s aren't an option, VS will have to add a few more 346 rotations (probably to JFK).


VS have now updated their June schedules such that no fleet is technically overscheduled. 3x daily LHR-JFK flights (including the RON) are now 789s instead of 333s, and LHR-LOS was moved from 346 to 333. The daily LHR-SFO 35K flight was also changed to a 789. As far as I can tell, the updated schedules would require all 17 789s to be in regular operation.
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Clackers
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:59 pm

Why don't VS announce daily LHR-HKT flights? such an untapped market that would be right up SRB street.
 
TC957
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Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:28 pm

Clackers wrote:
Why don't VS announce daily LHR-HKT flights? such an untapped market that would be right up SRB street.

Might not be the wisest move starting any new route to Asia given the current climate, plus little if any regular business traffic means low yields. If they wish to try a new long-haul leisure service, I'd suggest Male Maldives, plenty of high-end resorts there now. Would be good from Virgin Holidays' viewpoint too.
 
Clackers
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:58 pm

TC957 wrote:
Clackers wrote:
Why don't VS announce daily LHR-HKT flights? such an untapped market that would be right up SRB street.

Might not be the wisest move starting any new route to Asia given the current climate, plus little if any regular business traffic means low yields. If they wish to try a new long-haul leisure service, I'd suggest Male Maldives, plenty of high-end resorts there now. Would be good from Virgin Holidays' viewpoint too.


I do agree with your sentiment, but would also raise you SEZ, COK, and GOA (sorry forget the code). All of those would be fantastic promotion for VS, and while daily flights might be a struggle, I am sure something would work.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1143
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:00 pm

A little sleuthing suggests that the picture for Virgin Atlantic for Winter 2020 at MAN is not yet complete.

A few months ago, OAG were showing increases on ATL/JFK as well as showing LAX/LAS as new for the winter season. This showed LAX was on a Tuesday and Sunday, and LAS on a Tuesday and Thursday and ATL daily except Tue. Looking at the current confirmed schedule (what is based and the gaps in utilisation) the gaps fit perfectly to allow the flights listed above (in particular LAS and LAX).

It seems MAN has 1 A332 based. It does DEL on Mon/Th/Sat (it can do LAX on Tuesday and Sunday - as per OAG a while back).

There are 5 B744 based. These look to operate the following:

1 does JFK daily
2 does MCO daily.
3 does BGI Monday, Thursday, Saturday (gaps on Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday).
4 does ATL Monday, Friday, Saturday and MCO on Thursday (gaps on Tuesday, Wednesday, Sunday).
5 does MCO on Saturday (lots of capacity)

This leaves plenty of availability for a Tuesday and Thursday LAS, and three more ATL (the gaps on ATL are three from Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Sunday).

This leaves further slack for further JFK services which could have a more attractive morning departure.

This ignores the possibility of further DL services into MAN (eg ATL, JFK, BOS). It also ignores what might be 2 unallocated A333 (not assigned between LHR, MAN or LGW).

It also ignores future deliveries of A35K, A339 (which I think start arriving within the year) and possible retirements or lease extensions (eg of the A333 fleet).

It is possible that some or all of that excess B744 capacity could go to GLA or BFS for MCO - but who knows.
 
TC957
Posts: 3849
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:26 pm

Clackers wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Clackers wrote:
Why don't VS announce daily LHR-HKT flights? such an untapped market that would be right up SRB street.

Might not be the wisest move starting any new route to Asia given the current climate, plus little if any regular business traffic means low yields. If they wish to try a new long-haul leisure service, I'd suggest Male Maldives, plenty of high-end resorts there now. Would be good from Virgin Holidays' viewpoint too.


I do agree with your sentiment, but would also raise you SEZ, COK, and GOA (sorry forget the code). All of those would be fantastic promotion for VS, and while daily flights might be a struggle, I am sure something would work.

SEZ doesn't have the bed capacity of the Maldives, COK & GOI doesn't attract enough high rollers for direct scheduled flights from the UK, plus too seasonal anyway. MLE is well covered by the ME3 for connections, but high-end leisure clients often prefer direct flights so that's the one Indian Ocean route that could work. MRU is an outside possibility, think VS tried that route briefly many years ago though.
 
8herveg
Posts: 1489
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:13 am

Why do you think DEL was chosen over BOM? I thought VS may have chosen to fill the hole that 9W left (appreciate the route was only around for a few months!). Do you think they'll announce BOM too?
 
TC957
Posts: 3849
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:46 am

8herveg wrote:
Why do you think DEL was chosen over BOM? I thought VS may have chosen to fill the hole that 9W left (appreciate the route was only around for a few months!). Do you think they'll announce BOM too?

I'm sure the VS bean counters have done their research and concluded DEL will have more demand from the Manchester catchment area business community than BOM. Remember LHR - BOM was dropped for a while whereas LHR- DEL was kept throughout, suggesting DEL is the better performer for VS.
 
behramjee
Posts: 5107
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:22 am

Demand between MAN and the main Indian cities over the past year was as follows:

*round trip pax*

BOM 72,000
DEL 63,000
COK 28,000
BLR 22,000
MAA 20,000
HYD 17,000
AMD 14,000

It is worth mentioning that DEL-BHX average yield over the past year was 20% lower than MAN-BOM along with its p2p traffic too being less than MAN-BOM (72,000 vs 71,000) !
 
User001
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:39 am

8herveg wrote:
Why do you think DEL was chosen over BOM? I thought VS may have chosen to fill the hole that 9W left (appreciate the route was only around for a few months!). Do you think they'll announce BOM too?


DEL is a longer standing route for VS, as BOM has had a very stop start past. DEL LHR is also 2 daily versus 1 daily BOM, therefore, VS likely felt DEL was a 'safer' bet for them based on the data they will have to hand.
 
cirrusdragoon
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:42 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:24 pm

perhaps feed from Canada , albeit from WS codesharing will help in fill these flights?
 
p468
Topic Author
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:12 pm

cirrusdragoon wrote:
perhaps feed from Canada , albeit from WS codesharing will help in fill these flights?


WS don't fly into MAN, so there won't be any Canadian feed onto the VS MAN-DEL service
 
TC957
Posts: 3849
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:15 pm

p468 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
perhaps feed from Canada , albeit from WS codesharing will help in fill these flights?


WS don't fly into MAN, so there won't be any Canadian feed onto the VS MAN-DEL service

They will start MAN - YHZ this summer.
 
p468
Topic Author
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 6:06 pm

TC957 wrote:
p468 wrote:
cirrusdragoon wrote:
perhaps feed from Canada , albeit from WS codesharing will help in fill these flights?


WS don't fly into MAN, so there won't be any Canadian feed onto the VS MAN-DEL service

They will start MAN - YHZ this summer.


I stand corrected then, but looking at the flight times, they're not the best for a WS/VS connection:

WS057 YHZ 2245 – 0812+1 MAN 73W x246
WS058 MAN 0945 – 1152 YHZ 73W x357

VS0318 MAN 1640 – 0605+1 DEL 332 x146
VS0319 DEL 0810 – 1210 MAN 332 x257

You'd arrive into MAN from YHZ at 0812 (having departed the night before) and the VS flight departs at 0945, so might work, but only if you depart on Thursday or a Saturday.
Going back to YHZ, you can't actually make the connection on either the Friday or the Sunday departure from DEL. The VS flight arrives 1210 into MAN and the wb WS flight departs 1152.


Having said that however, Andrew Cowman (CEO MAN airport) said:

I am delighted Virgin Atlantic has recognised this by launching what I’m sure will be a popular service, not least for the 500,000 people of Indian origin living across the North
Source https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/busines ... hi-1996269


seems like MAN believe there's enough direct demand.

On the separate notion of why DEL and not BOM. As some have already said in the thread, VS already fly twice daily from LHR to DEL, logic may dictate that having 2 daily from LHR to DEL and only a single daily to BOM, you may want to add more BOM seats as you've already got DEL covered. But from a flight profit/loss perspective, DEL has now become so much cheaper for VS as their overheads on that route will be split across 2 daily LHR and 3 weekly MAN
 
TC957
Posts: 3849
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:12 pm

With LHR's 3rd runway never happening now, VS has limited chances to expand there unless forking out for extra expensive slots. So expanding slowly at MAN and building up their customer base there is a clever move. Get well established in case BA gets big ideas of starting ex-MAN services. I predict a MAN - MIA service next followed by a seasonal MAN - JNB. Maybe once the A339's start arriving.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1143
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:14 pm

TC957 wrote:
With LHR's 3rd runway never happening now, VS has limited chances to expand there unless forking out for extra expensive slots. So expanding slowly at MAN and building up their customer base there is a clever move. Get well established in case BA gets big ideas of starting ex-MAN services. I predict a MAN - MIA service next followed by a seasonal MAN - JNB. Maybe once the A339's start arriving.


I think BOM, BKK, PVG, PEK, TYO, JNB, CPT, SFO, MIA, SEA, DTW cannot be discounted for VS and DL at MAN.

The real question is what Virgin Connect will look like.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:44 am

p468 wrote:
[seems like MAN believe there's enough direct demand.


MAN will no doubt have an idea based on indirect passengers and the performance of the short-lived Jet Airways offering. There's also the untapped demand from those who haven't travelled due to the absence of a route but will do so now a direct offering is available. It's not just the north that will be able to utilise this new service as it will also be an alternative to the Air India offering out of BHX for those living in the Midlands.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1143
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Rumour: Virgin Atlantic to announce W20 schedule with new routes

Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:46 am

“According to preliminary figures from Sabre Market Intelligence, Mumbai was the largest O&D market between Manchester and India in 2019 with 86,300 two-way passengers. Delhi was second with 57,300 passengers.”

DEL - 57,300 per year = 78.5 PPDEW

BOM - 86,300 per year = 118.2 PPDEW

You can probably add circa 20% for direct route stimulation, and then whatever traffic connects at MAN for TATL services. Provided the yield isn’t trash, the fundamentals should be there for a daily service to both BOM and DEL in due course.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... nchester-/
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