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DLHAM
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sun Oct 25, 2020 4:50 pm

Havent they announced to build up a new shorthaul Network in Europe? This was before COVID.
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User001
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:02 pm

And if we are talking about the short haul segments of Virgin Australia/blue and Virgin Nigeria, then we can't leave out Virgin Sun and the small fleet of A320 and A321.
 
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Polot
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:11 pm

DLHAM wrote:
Havent they announced to build up a new shorthaul Network in Europe? This was before COVID.

They were going to be part of the new FlyBe ownership and rebrand it as Virgin Connect. I’m not sure where those plans currently fall though since FlyBe ended up collapsing then covid hit.
 
BealineV953
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:42 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
the only short-haul route VS operated was LGW-ATH


Early days saw a BAF Viscount in full Virgin Atlantic colours operating LGW-MST and a short-lived venture with Club Air of Dublin which flew LTN-DUB with a 727-100 under the Virgin Atlantic brand also.
The Athens service was flown by South East European Airways as a franchise before Virgin took it on themselves when SEEA collapsed.


...and also:
CityJet flew DUB-LCY under the Virgin brand for a year or two
Virgin Express based at Brussels.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
bennett123
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sun Oct 25, 2020 10:02 pm

I recall flying from LHR to EDI and back once.

The fares were reasonable, (about £79 return) and there was no issues about the service.

However, the L/F was dire, (less than 40-50%).

Flying up to EDI on Sunday Evening and back Friday Evening).

If that it not 100%, then you have no chance the rest of the week.
 
TC957
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VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:24 pm

Virgin increases Caribbean services next summer with a new twice-weekly flight to St Vincent.
A330 equipment.

Interesting choice...would SXM have made a better option for a new Caribbean route ?
 
x1234
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:26 pm

It would be better for VS to launch services to BLR (Bangalore, India) which has a TON of J traffic to both the UK and USA. I still can't beleive they launched Pakistan before BLR.
 
caribny
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:38 pm

TC957 wrote:
Virgin increases Caribbean services next summer with a new twice-weekly flight to St Vincent.
A330 equipment.

Interesting choice...would SXM have made a better option for a new Caribbean route ?



Not SXM. I would have thought that BA would have been the carrier to SVD though. They have more flights to the Eastern Caribbean so my opportunities to tag SVD to a major market. SVD is paying MRGs for this route, so this might be VS hungry for revenue. This doesnt represent a new flight. Its just extension of an existing flight, likely from ANU, or maybe BGI.
 
RainerBoeing777
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:47 pm

x1234 wrote:
It would be better for VS to launch services to BLR (Bangalore, India) which has a TON of J traffic to both the UK and USA. I still can't beleive they launched Pakistan before BLR.



I agree with you, BLR is needed in the VS route network, it is a destination with good yields much better than Pakistan
CX - JL - LH - KE - KL - SQ - QR - QF - TG - UA
 
TC957
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:11 pm

Still find it a bit odd they would drop UVF and start SVD. The hotel capacity in St Lucia is way more than St Vincent, but I appreciate there are some very upmarket boutique properties on the nearby Grenadine Islands served internationally through SVD. But if VS's strategy is to chase the high-end tourist $ then a MLE service would be good. Have heard that UL will re-instate the direct LHR - MLE flight soon. And BA have upped MLE to a 4-class 77W.
 
by738
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:28 pm

BA will squash this in due course...
 
sand26391
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:09 am

RainerBoeing777 wrote:
x1234 wrote:
It would be better for VS to launch services to BLR (Bangalore, India) which has a TON of J traffic to both the UK and USA. I still can't beleive they launched Pakistan before BLR.



I agree with you, BLR is needed in the VS route network, it is a destination with good yields much better than Pakistan


Only a matter of time I would say, maybe 2023/24?
Image

Link:- https://www.anna.aero/search/?q=British ... s+Pakistan
 
Zidane
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:53 am

TC957 wrote:
Still find it a bit odd they would drop UVF and start SVD. The hotel capacity in St Lucia is way more than St Vincent, but I appreciate there are some very upmarket boutique properties on the nearby Grenadine Islands served internationally through SVD. But if VS's strategy is to chase the high-end tourist $ then a MLE service would be good. Have heard that UL will re-instate the direct LHR - MLE flight soon. And BA have upped MLE to a 4-class 77W.


VS asked the local government for MRGs, like most of these islands, and were denied. I'm positive SVD is paying for these flights, as are ANU and TAB. VS has served UVF for some 20 years, BA 50 years. The island is well known to the UK by now, BA and BY are already filling the void.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:17 am

caribny wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Virgin increases Caribbean services next summer with a new twice-weekly flight to St Vincent.
A330 equipment.

Interesting choice...would SXM have made a better option for a new Caribbean route ?



Not SXM. I would have thought that BA would have been the carrier to SVD though. They have more flights to the Eastern Caribbean so my opportunities to tag SVD to a major market. SVD is paying MRGs for this route, so this might be VS hungry for revenue. This doesnt represent a new flight. Its just extension of an existing flight, likely from ANU, or maybe BGI.


Regardless of whether it's direct or a tag-on to an existing Caribbean flight, it's a new air link from the UK to St Vincent that has previously not existed. I'm guessing when they built the new airport there a few years ago, long-haul flights to places such as London is what they had in mind. Up until now, the best way to have travelled to St Vincent from the UK is via the US somewhere or changing airlines at somewhere like BGI.

It'll be interesting to see how VS get on with this route.
 
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OA260
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:12 am

VS just announced it is axing its UK sales staff and moving the jobs to South Africa.
 
Brickell305
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Re: VS to launch LHR - SVD in S21.

Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:48 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
caribny wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Virgin increases Caribbean services next summer with a new twice-weekly flight to St Vincent.
A330 equipment.

Interesting choice...would SXM have made a better option for a new Caribbean route ?



Not SXM. I would have thought that BA would have been the carrier to SVD though. They have more flights to the Eastern Caribbean so my opportunities to tag SVD to a major market. SVD is paying MRGs for this route, so this might be VS hungry for revenue. This doesnt represent a new flight. Its just extension of an existing flight, likely from ANU, or maybe BGI.


Regardless of whether it's direct or a tag-on to an existing Caribbean flight, it's a new air link from the UK to St Vincent that has previously not existed. I'm guessing when they built the new airport there a few years ago, long-haul flights to places such as London is what they had in mind. Up until now, the best way to have travelled to St Vincent from the UK is via the US somewhere or changing airlines at somewhere like BGI.

It'll be interesting to see how VS get on with this route.

VS will stick it out as long as SVD is paying. It is relatively low cost/risk to tag on SVD from a nearby destination.
 
p468
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:48 pm

GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?
 
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OA260
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:35 am

p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.
 
SueD
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:27 am

OA260 wrote:
p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.


Works well if India ease the intermediate restrictions. Guyana has one of worlds largest Hindi populations indeed 40% of the population are of Indian decent.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:54 am

cedarjet wrote:
Def Virgin Atlantic did Gatwick to NL with a Viscount, consensus here seems to be Maastricht but I thought it was Rotterdam? Whichever, I think for promotion they might have sent a jumbo once or twice. Interesting way to cross the North Sea. Around the same time, Sabena had a JV with British Caledonian so a SN 747 did BRU-LGW-JFK-LGW-BRU a few days a week. BRU-LGW on a SN 747, MST/RTM-LGW on a VS Viscount (or maybe 747), very nice!


I think BAF had a route licence for Rotterdam. Occasionally a VS livered viscount could be seen on the route when not operating to Maastricht on behalf of VS.
 
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OA260
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:05 am

SueD wrote:
OA260 wrote:
p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.


Works well if India ease the intermediate restrictions. Guyana has one of worlds largest Hindi populations indeed 40% of the population are of Indian decent.


I know that my Father is one of them ;) Still dont see a demand . Most of my Guyanese side of the family have never been to India. Im one of the few that have. Most Guyanese are interested in USA / Canada and thats where the ex pat populations are.
 
LH982
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:28 pm

flyjay123 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Def Virgin Atlantic did Gatwick to NL with a Viscount, consensus here seems to be Maastricht but I thought it was Rotterdam? Whichever, I think for promotion they might have sent a jumbo once or twice. Interesting way to cross the North Sea. Around the same time, Sabena had a JV with British Caledonian so a SN 747 did BRU-LGW-JFK-LGW-BRU a few days a week. BRU-LGW on a SN 747, MST/RTM-LGW on a VS Viscount (or maybe 747), very nice!


I think BAF had a route licence for Rotterdam. Occasionally a VS livered viscount could be seen on the route when not operating to Maastricht on behalf of VS.


DUB-LTN started with a Viscount around 87, and moved to 727's about a year later.

I always thought the SN 747 went to Atlanta
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Virgin Atlantic Short Haul

Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:00 pm

LH982 wrote:
I always thought the SN 747 went to Atlanta


You are quite correct, it was Atlanta.


Regards
CROSSWIND
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:57 am

OA260 wrote:
p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.


There has been a semi-regular charter operating GEO-LHR for the past few months. Seems to be oil traffic related apparently. VFR traffic is also one of the few sectors that seems to be ok as well so perhaps a service could work.
 
Breathe
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:55 pm

SueD wrote:
OA260 wrote:
p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.


Works well if India ease the intermediate restrictions. Guyana has one of worlds largest Hindi populations indeed 40% of the population are of Indian decent.

No it doesn't. Most of the population doesn't speak Hindi.

The connection with Guyanese Indians with the "motherland" is only historical for the majority of Caribbean Indians, who went there as indentured labourers. A could analogy would be a lot of 3-4th generation North Americans having a loose connection with their European or African forefathers.

The only "demand" I can see is with the Guyanese population living in the UK (which is relatively small), or perhaps it could be a new holiday destination, but I don't believe Guyana has the same level of beach resorts as the neighbouring islands in the Caribbean Sea.

The other demand would be oil exploration which is going on. Although if they hit oil, then this could ignite the border disputes with neighbouring Venezuela! That is of course a different topic for a different day!
 
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OA260
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:29 pm

Breathe wrote:
SueD wrote:
OA260 wrote:

Dont see where the demand for that would come from.


Works well if India ease the intermediate restrictions. Guyana has one of worlds largest Hindi populations indeed 40% of the population are of Indian decent.

No it doesn't. Most of the population doesn't speak Hindi.

The connection with Guyanese Indians with the "motherland" is only historical for the majority of Caribbean Indians, who went there as indentured labourers. A could analogy would be a lot of 3-4th generation North Americans having a loose connection with their European or African forefathers.

The only "demand" I can see is with the Guyanese population living in the UK (which is relatively small), or perhaps it could be a new holiday destination, but I don't believe Guyana has the same level of beach resorts as the neighbouring islands in the Caribbean Sea.

The other demand would be oil exploration which is going on. Although if they hit oil, then this could ignite the border disputes with neighbouring Venezuela! That is of course a different topic for a different day!


100% correct . Even the oil will not sustain regular scheduled flights . Less then 40K Guyanese in the UK and many have no interest in going back on a regular basis. As for tourism its a small market based on eco tourism / tours. Guyana is not a place you just land and walk around. Crime is rife. The times I was there I never left the house without a family member.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:39 pm

OA260 wrote:
p468 wrote:
GEO is apparently rumored. According to this article at least.
https://demerarawaves.com/2020/11/04/vi ... -on-cards/
Does not explicitly state GEO, but what other airport would VS fly to in Guyana. After the cancellation of GRU, could this be the first South America destination for VS?


Dont see where the demand for that would come from.

I don’t either. The Guyanese VFR market in the UK isn’t very big and obviously GEO is not touristy in the least. That said though, VS seems to be looking to expand in the Caribbean. They are adding SVD. Maybe they feel that adding GEO as a tag to, say, BGI is a low risk way of extracting some added revenue on that flight. BA usually performs better with the VFR market but as they don’t serve GEO (or SVD), maybe VS thinks they can make it a feasible destination.
 
windian425
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:43 pm

Only way a GEO flight works for VS is if it's tagged on to another stronger market such as BGI or ANU. With UVF gone, either ANU or BGI are expected. My money would be on BGI.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:23 pm

https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlanti ... o-fleet-2/

Not sure if the claim about the A330-200's is true as only one has left the fleet (unless the other three still at MAN are now WFU), but in short the A330-900's will now start arriving from late-2022 and there will be no more A350 deliveries for the next 12 months.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:31 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantic-a330neo-fleet-2/

Not sure if the claim about the A330-200's is true as only one has left the fleet (unless the other three still at MAN are now WFU), but in short the A330-900's will now start arriving from late-2022 and there will be no more A350 deliveries for the next 12 months.

Codswallop. A fluff piece about how they are taking COVID as an opportunity to become more efficient and save the planet. It did get one thing right. It said :
"Virgin remains committed to net zero operations by 2050, and with the quadjets out and new twinjets incoming, it’s well on its way to achieving that goal."

Freudian slip, proving Denial is not only a river in Egypt.
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:55 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
https://simpleflying.com/virgin-atlantic-a330neo-fleet-2/

Not sure if the claim about the A330-200's is true as only one has left the fleet (unless the other three still at MAN are now WFU), but in short the A330-900's will now start arriving from late-2022 and there will be no more A350 deliveries for the next 12 months.

Codswallop. A fluff piece about how they are taking COVID as an opportunity to become more efficient and save the planet. It did get one thing right. It said :
"Virgin remains committed to net zero operations by 2050, and with the quadjets out and new twinjets incoming, it’s well on its way to achieving that goal."

Freudian slip, proving Denial is not only a river in Egypt.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

In fairness, they were pushing the “greenest fleet” narrative at around the time of the order for the A330-900neo which was pre-Covid.

I assume it’s going to be part of the brand moving forwards, but let’s hope that they are not committed to a path of self destruction!!!
 
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Polot
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:01 pm

So nice of VS, an overall very small airline, to commit to being net zero by 2050 while much much much larger DL strives to reach that milestone by 2030.
 
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res77W
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:41 pm

The A333s aren't that old are they? From what I could find, the oldest one is just nearing ten years old. I'm sure a cabin refit is out of the question since the A339s are coming in a couple of years.

-Rowen
 
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Polot
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:43 pm

res77W wrote:
The A333s aren't that old are they? From what I could find, the oldest one is just nearing ten years old. I'm sure a cabin refit is out of the question since the A339s are coming in a couple of years.

-Rowen

They are all leased. VS is/was planning on replacing them with A330neos as the leases expire. Not sure if the A333s are now getting small lease extensions or if VS will now be dropping some before A339s arrive.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:02 pm

OA260 wrote:
VS just announced it is axing its UK sales staff and moving the jobs to South Africa.


I cannot find any such announcement. Where did you find it?
“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” ~Harlan Ellison~
 
timberwolf24
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:04 pm

Does anyone think that VS will return to ORD from LHR and/or MAN? I know they are currently operating cargo flight to ORD.
Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
 
jbs2886
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:31 pm

timberwolf24 wrote:
Does anyone think that VS will return to ORD from LHR and/or MAN? I know they are currently operating cargo flight to ORD.


I think it is unlikely now that VS is part of the DL/AF/KLM JV. But, with cargo being king right now, it wouldn't be totally surprising if pax are added (AF and/or KLM could adjust frequencies to make it work, too).
 
jbs2886
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:58 pm

klm617 wrote:
jordanh wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Maybe finally DTW will get a MAN nonstop it's long over due.


Find the PDEW between DTW and MAN - and you will have your answer. Nothing is "long overdue" unless a business case exists.


Find out how many people travel a day between Manchester and the Midwest and the western us and you'll find a better answer to the protentional of a DTW-MAN link. While yes there has to be some O/D market but hubs are all about transfer passengers. That is the entire point of having a hub. There are a variety of reasons why routes with potential are not attempted. Detroit is a case an point that because it is a fortress hub with lack of any real competition there isn't really a lot of incentive for Delta to add routes even if they make sense.


If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end, and the Midwest hub. Interesting now, however, that you are arguing DL's fortress hub in DTW could actually be a benefit - when you rail on that fact regularly.

The reality is, DL connects enough Midwestern cities to JFK for MAN. Others may just have a double connect.
 
User001
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:06 pm

If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end


Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.
 
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klm617
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:17 pm

User001 wrote:
If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end


Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.



Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! People really don't grasp this fact.


For those who may not know.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
jbs2886
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:33 pm

User001 wrote:
If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end


Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.


You're right, and I just commented elsewhere that prior route success or not doesn't indicate future success of another airline. But, although VS does have a long-haul presence in MAN, BA has a large market share as well, which should support the AA flight.

Either way, my point is I'm not sure there is sufficient demand for DTW when JFK surely serves the vast majority of the Midwest market. I, like many other posters, are endlessly frustrated with this one poster.
 
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Polot
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Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
User001 wrote:
If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end


Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.



Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! People really don't grasp this fact.


For those who may not know.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... -for-2017/

Yet VS/DL never launched that route during the best of times.

And while there is no BA at MAN there is really isn’t VS at MAN either. There are just the soon to be launched flights to India and Islamabad. People are not going to fly DTW-MAN-JFK.
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1041
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:51 pm

timberwolf24 wrote:
Does anyone think that VS will return to ORD from LHR and/or MAN? I know they are currently operating cargo flight to ORD.


I'm afraid Virgin have tried Chicago a number of times already. It was first suspended after 9/11. Virgin tried a summer seasonal route around 2007. It came back a few years ago after the Delta joint-venture launched and was suspended again.

They cannot match AA/BA and United for frequency on this route.
 
xwb777
Posts: 1024
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:52 pm

VS is preparing a cargo operations to help transport COVID19 vaccine.

https://virgin.com/about-virgin/latest/ ... ce=Twitter
 
Kraken27
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:54 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:12 pm

klm617 wrote:
User001 wrote:
If the Midwest had such large MAN demand, AA would have made it work from ORD considering it has BA on the MAN end


Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.



Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! People really don't grasp this fact.

Back in the mid-1980's up to about 2000 I used the AA MAN-ORD service several times a year when going skiing in Colorado or for summer Californian sunshine. I certainly don't recall any long delays or cancellations. We never missed a connection in Chicago over the years. If you want a route that gave AA headaches, look at the BHX-ORD route. If they sent a 767-200 over and the wind was in the "wrong" direction at BHX, then passengers / cargo had to be offloaded as the flight was payload restricted due to a church steeple pretty much bang on the runway centerline & too close to the airport.

VS have dabbled with ORD from both MAN and LHR over the years & have never been able to make it work. I could see them testing the water with a seasonal DTW route, especially if it gives good feed into connections on DL. Similarly, they keep on switching the ATL service from MAN between VS & DL metal for an IATA season. My girlfriend is VS cabin crew at MAN & the VS staff were not sad to see the ATL flight go back to DL metal (a small matter of numerous DL Elites demanding free upgrades if they spotted an empty Premium Economy or Upper Class seat onboard). VS have a policy of absolute minimum operational upgrades.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5376
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:17 pm

Kraken27 wrote:
klm617 wrote:
User001 wrote:

Sigh, this argument again.

Firstly, MAN doesnt have BA on ‘this end’. It has Billund and Heathrow as full time, more than daily routes. Then a handful of weekend flights with cityflyer, and thats it.

AA operated MAN-ORD for approx 26 years. Thats not an ‘unsuccessful’ route. As discussed time and again, they finally pulled the route due to traffic dropping thanks to the absolutly dreadful OTP and cancellation rate. When the route relies on connections in ORD, and the flight often arrived into ORD 5+ hours late on many, many, many occasions, or just not even operate at all, tell me, would you take that flight?

It was unintentionally an ‘engineered’ ending to the route, not because the market ‘wasnt there’.



Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! People really don't grasp this fact.

Back in the mid-1980's up to about 2000 I used the AA MAN-ORD service several times a year when going skiing in Colorado or for summer Californian sunshine. I certainly don't recall any long delays or cancellations. We never missed a connection in Chicago over the years. If you want a route that gave AA headaches, look at the BHX-ORD route. If they sent a 767-200 over and the wind was in the "wrong" direction at BHX, then passengers / cargo had to be offloaded as the flight was payload restricted due to a church steeple pretty much bang on the runway centerline & too close to the airport.

VS have dabbled with ORD from both MAN and LHR over the years & have never been able to make it work. I could see them testing the water with a seasonal DTW route, especially if it gives good feed into connections on DL. Similarly, they keep on switching the ATL service from MAN between VS & DL metal for an IATA season. My girlfriend is VS cabin crew at MAN & the VS staff were not sad to see the ATL flight go back to DL metal (a small matter of numerous DL Elites demanding free upgrades if they spotted an empty Premium Economy or Upper Class seat onboard). VS have a policy of absolute minimum operational upgrades.


Thank you for your insight on this matter it is much appreciated. DTW would be an excellent ad and the terminal there is great for ease of connections but I do see Delta operating this route if it is attempted.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:23 am

klm617 wrote:
Kraken27 wrote:
klm617 wrote:



Thank you !!!!!!!!!!! People really don't grasp this fact.

Back in the mid-1980's up to about 2000 I used the AA MAN-ORD service several times a year when going skiing in Colorado or for summer Californian sunshine. I certainly don't recall any long delays or cancellations. We never missed a connection in Chicago over the years. If you want a route that gave AA headaches, look at the BHX-ORD route. If they sent a 767-200 over and the wind was in the "wrong" direction at BHX, then passengers / cargo had to be offloaded as the flight was payload restricted due to a church steeple pretty much bang on the runway centerline & too close to the airport.

VS have dabbled with ORD from both MAN and LHR over the years & have never been able to make it work. I could see them testing the water with a seasonal DTW route, especially if it gives good feed into connections on DL. Similarly, they keep on switching the ATL service from MAN between VS & DL metal for an IATA season. My girlfriend is VS cabin crew at MAN & the VS staff were not sad to see the ATL flight go back to DL metal (a small matter of numerous DL Elites demanding free upgrades if they spotted an empty Premium Economy or Upper Class seat onboard). VS have a policy of absolute minimum operational upgrades.


Thank you for your insight on this matter it is much appreciated. DTW would be an excellent ad and the terminal there is great for ease of connections but I do see Delta operating this route if it is attempted.


There can't be much demand for OD traffic between MAN and DTW? Not sure why that would be a great add?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13434
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:15 am

Westerwaelder wrote:
There can't be much demand for OD traffic between MAN and DTW? Not sure why that would be a great add?

What makes you think that O&D would be what they're going after, as opposed to the network benefits of flying into DL's 3rd largest hub, granting quick/efficient access throughout the US Midwest and central Canada to an airline that barely has any presence there on its own....?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User001
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:37 am

VS have dabbled with ORD from both MAN and LHR over the years & have never been able to make it work. I could see them testing the water with a seasonal DTW route, especially if it gives good feed into connections on DL. Similarly, they keep on switching the ATL service from MAN between VS & DL metal for an IATA season. My girlfriend is VS cabin crew at MAN & the VS staff were not sad to see the ATL flight go back to DL metal (a small matter of numerous DL Elites demanding free upgrades if they spotted an empty Premium Economy or Upper Class seat onboard). VS have a policy of absolute minimum operational upgrades.


Virgin have never served Manchester-Chicago, and Manchester-Atlanta has been Virgin since 2015 with no switch backs since then?
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic News and Discussion Thread 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:43 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Westerwaelder wrote:
There can't be much demand for OD traffic between MAN and DTW? Not sure why that would be a great add?

What makes you think that O&D would be what they're going after, as opposed to the network benefits of flying into DL's 3rd largest hub, granting quick/efficient access throughout the US Midwest and central Canada to an airline that barely has any presence there on its own....?


O&D tends to be more profitable. If you had limited resources, would you rather fly a route that you can fill point to point or one that you can only fill with a load of feeder flights?

MAN transatlantic is mainly UK originating.

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