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globalwings
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Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:25 am

Airbus has reportedly shown a 'blended wing body' plane design after secret flight tests. Does anyone have a photo or rendering of what this aircraft looks like?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sing ... SKBN20509H
 
Ishrion
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:36 am

globalwings wrote:
Airbus has reportedly shown a 'blended wing body' plane design after secret flight tests. Does anyone have a photo or rendering of what this aircraft looks like?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sing ... SKBN20509H



https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufac ... n=sharebar

Image
 
rigo
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:40 am

To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).
 
Yonderlust
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:45 am

rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:04 am

Good for freight.
 
many321
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:10 am

Interesting to see they've been secretive about its test flights. Who knows if it's viable though it would be lovely if this is where Airbus is heading now to compete with Boeing and, finally push Boeing to innovate at the same time.
 
M564038
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:25 am

I would never fly on anything that have Windows.
Not even Boeing have windows, and they are from Seattle!
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).
 
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alberchico
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:33 am

Yonderlust wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


You do realize that on most flights, even those taking place during daylight hours, flight attendants will insist that the window shades stay closed for almost the entire trip so people can sleep and watch the seatback entertainment. So. In a way we're already flying in dark windowless tubes.
Last edited by alberchico on Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Noshow
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:38 am

It seems to have cockpit windows so it has a pilot or two?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:50 am

Yonderlust wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


No one thought 10 abreast is bad ....people love the A380.

I don't get why people car about windows on long haul flying....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Bealine251
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:54 am

Still has a Racoon mask. Start with a blank piece of paper, draw the mask and the rest of the design follows!!. Looks good
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:57 am

tommy1808 wrote:
I don't get why people car about windows on long haul flying....


If you don't understand the pleasure of looking through the window when flying above 30000 ft, maybe you are on the wrong forum.


The main downside with this design from a passenger perspective could be during turns, side passengers are far from the center axis.
Caravelle lover
 
kalvado
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:04 am

rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Would you fly across the ocean on anything that has less than 3 engines?
You may equally get out of options in both cases at some point.

I also enjoy windows - and try to get shady side window seat if I can - but this is really an option for 10-20% of passengers on most flights. So majority flies without window access anyway... And people like you and me maybe out of luck after all.
 
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MrBren
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:07 am

rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).


The MAX has some windows :white:
 
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calstanford
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 am

kalvado wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Would you fly across the ocean on anything that has less than 3 engines?
You may equally get out of options in both cases at some point.

I also enjoy windows - and try to get shady side window seat if I can - but this is really an option for 10-20% of passengers on most flights. So majority flies without window access anyway... And people like you and me maybe out of luck after all.


Please give an example of any seating configuration where only 10% of people get a window seat. Minimum I could find was 20%.

In an A380/777/747 3-4-3 20% get window seats
In an A350/777 3-3-3 22.2% get window seats
In an A330 2-3-2 28.6% get window seats
In an A320/737 33.3% get window seats
In an A220 40% get window seats
In an ERJ/CRJ 50% get window seats

And that's in Economy!
In PremEcon/Business/First the percentages are much higher even.

What am I missing here?
 
kalvado
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:32 am

calstanford wrote:
kalvado wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Would you fly across the ocean on anything that has less than 3 engines?
You may equally get out of options in both cases at some point.

I also enjoy windows - and try to get shady side window seat if I can - but this is really an option for 10-20% of passengers on most flights. So majority flies without window access anyway... And people like you and me maybe out of luck after all.


Please give an example of any seating configuration where only 10% of people get a window seat. Minimum I could find was 20%.

In an A380/777/747 3-4-3 20% get window seats
In an A350/777 3-3-3 22.2% get window seats
In an A330 2-3-2 28.6% get window seats
In an A320/737 33.3% get window seats
In an A220 40% get window seats
In an ERJ/CRJ 50% get window seats

And that's in Economy!
In PremEcon/Business/First the percentages are much higher even.

What am I missing here?

You are missing the word "shadow".
Bright sun shining into the window is the common reason shades are kept closed
 
afgeneral
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:33 am

alberchico wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


You do realize that on most flights, even those taking place during daylight hours, flight attendants will insist that the window shades stay closed for almost the entire trip so people can sleep and watch the seatback entertainment. So. In a way we're already flying in dark windowless tubes.


I've had 0 occasions of FAs asking passengers to close window shades in the past ~150 flights I've been on as a passenger.
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:42 am

alberchico wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


You do realize that on most flights, even those taking place during daylight hours, flight attendants will insist that the window shades stay closed for almost the entire trip so people can sleep and watch the seatback entertainment. So. In a way we're already flying in dark windowless tubes.


I do not realize this, I have been a Senator on Lufthansa for four or five years in a row and I fly a bunch of other airlines regularly, so in a good (meaning not too much travel) month, I fly four-five times. In the last 20 years, I may have been asked to close my shade twice and I politely said no each time, including sunrise flights. I always get window seats on TATL and 80-90% of the time on shorter flights.

I read these kinds of comments and start doubting whether or not the last 20 years of my life happened or I am in the matrix.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:43 am

LaunchDetected wrote:
The main downside with this design from a passenger perspective could be during turns, side passengers are far from the center axis.


Bingo.

Along with evac - and of course pressurising the thing.

But if the latter two can be worked around with design, the first is intrinsic to the concept. How do you avoid passengers falling ill as a result of manoeuvres?
 
kalvado
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:55 am

Amiga500 wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
The main downside with this design from a passenger perspective could be during turns, side passengers are far from the center axis.


Bingo.

Along with evac - and of course pressurising the thing.

But if the latter two can be worked around with design, the first is intrinsic to the concept. How do you avoid passengers falling ill as a result of manoeuvres?

How bad the effect really is? I had 2 back to back flights in 777 and 737, both in window seat, and didn't really notice any difference which should be a factor of 2. 20 abreast bwb would be another factor of 2 compared to 777, and I wonder if it would be that bad.
 
TMccrury
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:57 am

It seems that KLM has been working on one as well or funding someone who is and it doesn't look like the one from Airbus. Here is a link from Sam Chui on Youtube as well as a link from Flight Global about it.

https://youtu.be/cZJzD7bhE_Y

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 42.article
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:59 am

TMccrury wrote:
It seems that KLM has been working on one as well or funding someone who is and it doesn't look like the one from Airbus. Here is a link from Sam Chui on Youtube as well as a link from Flight Global about it.

https://youtu.be/cZJzD7bhE_Y

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 42.article


It's more an engineering project for TU Delft students than a real, commercial, project. + PR stunt for KLM
Caravelle lover
 
pasen
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:18 am

 
gloom
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:23 am

kalvado wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
The main downside with this design from a passenger perspective could be during turns, side passengers are far from the center axis.


Bingo.

Along with evac - and of course pressurising the thing.

But if the latter two can be worked around with design, the first is intrinsic to the concept. How do you avoid passengers falling ill as a result of manoeuvres?

How bad the effect really is?


I would think it's not as bad as some people think. We already have a long planes in X axis (forward-back), some as long as 80m. It means there are passengers as far as about 30m from CoL, and they are moving up and down during all maneuvres, from takeoff (rotation) to climb adjustments, to descend and landing, and also during turbulence which often raises/lowers nose. Did you hear much about people compleining of that? I haven't.
So, why do you think it would be much worse in Y axis (wing to wing)?

Cheers,
Adam
 
VV
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:27 am

Do they put the vertical fins on the nacelle?
That's interesting because I wouldn't do it.
 
kurtverbose
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:37 am

Never mind the windows, what is interesting about this is they talk about it as a narrow body replacement. All blended wing ideas that I've seen so far have been very big planes. I didn't know a blended design could work in small sizes?

Also, this is the problem with Boeing's NSA - some really innovative designs will be reaching maturity quite soon after an NSA would be market ready. it's the reason Airbus went the NEO route with the A320.

Also, how do you do an A319, A320, A321? Tubes are comparatively easy to stretch.
 
JonesNL
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:55 am

pasen wrote:


Interestingly they are showing an render with 3-3|3-3 setup | being pillars in the middle, which makes it a 12 abreast in full economy. To replace the 320 it would have around 192 pax with 16 rows. Quite a short and wide bird. They are talking about 20% improvement just with the design. I am imagining they will get 10-15% with a new generation engine. An improvement of 30-35% would be need to warrant the premium of introducing a completely new type and probably the higher cost of a new clean sheet.

And I agree about putting the vertical fins on a nacelle, but it is a concept and I am guessing that is one of the first things to disappear in the final version.
 
Noshow
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 am

The tail looks strange, twin DC-10 style. They use the engine diameter for additional horizontal stabilizer length.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:45 am

pasen wrote:
Aww, such a cute little toy, lol. Wake me up when the grown-up version comes out with all of the BWB problems solved.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:50 am

gloom wrote:
I would think it's not as bad as some people think. We already have a long planes in X axis (forward-back), some as long as 80m. It means there are passengers as far as about 30m from CoL, and they are moving up and down during all maneuvres, from takeoff (rotation) to climb adjustments, to descend and landing, and also during turbulence which often raises/lowers nose. Did you hear much about people compleining of that? I haven't.
So, why do you think it would be much worse in Y axis (wing to wing)?

Cheers,
Adam


Hmm, I never thought of it like that - that's actually a very good point you make.

A moderate reduction in the target roll rate for the pilots (along with FBW tuning accordingly) might make it quite manageable.
 
planecane
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:03 am

Didn't Boeing show this concept like 15 years ago and do some flight tests with a scale model?

Not saying a BWB will never happen but the concept isn't exactly speeding towards production.

IIRC, one of the biggest issues with the concept (besides evac) is the movement experienced by the passengers in the outboard seats when in a bank.
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:07 am

rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).


They can make fake windows on the inside, then camera's project the outside on the fake windows.

You won't notice the difference.
Good moaning!
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:07 am

A bit of PR Greenwashing, https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/greenwashing.asp spending R&D money, something usefull might get out of it. we are really commited to sustainability.. while growing air traffic 5% / yr.

Meanwhile typical BWB challenges remain (flat heavy pressure vessels, emergency evacuation requirements, stretching/ capacity customization, passenger accelaration in turns, yawing.

The engine configuration on this concept would be certified as single engine. (one uncontained engine failure taking out the other).

A few years back during NMA discussion I cut and pasted what Boeing is doing, and even so proved overly optimistic. Airbus does the same..

Image
Last edited by keesje on Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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PepeTheFrog
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:07 am

planecane wrote:
Didn't Boeing show this concept like 15 years ago and do some flight tests with a scale model?

Not saying a BWB will never happen but the concept isn't exactly speeding towards production.

IIRC, one of the biggest issues with the concept (besides evac) is the movement experienced by the passengers in the outboard seats when in a bank.


Indeed.

I would love to see the cabin of this aircraft.
Good moaning!
 
rigo
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:11 am

PepeTheFrog wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).


They can make fake windows on the the inside, then camera's project the outside on the fake windows.

You won't notice the difference.


That's the strawman once used by Tim Clark but it's nonsense. Seeing something with my own eyes as opposed to watching it on a tv screen makes all the difference in the world. Especially a tv screen interrupted every two minutes by announcements and ads.
 
axelesgg
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:28 am

afgeneral wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


You do realize that on most flights, even those taking place during daylight hours, flight attendants will insist that the window shades stay closed for almost the entire trip so people can sleep and watch the seatback entertainment. So. In a way we're already flying in dark windowless tubes.


I've had 0 occasions of FAs asking passengers to close window shades in the past ~150 flights I've been on as a passenger.


As a passenger they asked us once to take down the window shades, it was in Greece in the summer in a MD80. This was to stop the sun to warm up the cabin while being on ground.
Fly Draganair
 
T4thH
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:55 pm

Seems to be part of one of the many EU Clean Sky programs I and/or II. This will be just part of the fundamental research programs, so just do not get silly. -> again: fundamental research, not production line.

Just remind, EU CS programs:
Clean Sky one is ongoing (few programs) since 12 years with an annual budget of 1.6 billion € (of course, not any more, it will be closed soon)
Clean Sky two, started 2014, annual budget of 4 billion € .
Clean Sky three will start in 01-Jan-2021, I do not know the planned annual budget, but it is already approved.

You are aware of the Clean Sky BLADE (Breakthrough Laminar Aircraft Demonstrator in Europe) demonstrator? The A340?
 
many321
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:14 pm

kurtverbose wrote:
Never mind the windows, what is interesting about this is they talk about it as a narrow body replacement. All blended wing ideas that I've seen so far have been very big planes. I didn't know a blended design could work in small sizes?

Also, this is the problem with Boeing's NSA - some really innovative designs will be reaching maturity quite soon after an NSA would be market ready. it's the reason Airbus went the NEO route with the A320.


If this is what Airbus is going with to compete with Boeing's NSA/FSA, I hope Boeing dusts off its BWB designs, start doing studies again. Better to be on top of it than getting caught off guard when Airbus produces a viable BWB and the airlines start booking orders for it.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:31 pm

The BWB makes less sense for a single aisle replacement and more for a large aircraft / cargo aircraft.
 
yabeweb
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:08 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
The main downside with this design from a passenger perspective could be during turns, side passengers are far from the center axis.


Bingo.

Along with evac - and of course pressurising the thing.

But if the latter two can be worked around with design, the first is intrinsic to the concept. How do you avoid passengers falling ill as a result of manoeuvres?

I would have a solution for the last one!
Something that mimic this.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/quest ... -toy-works

Or the plane could be flatter, so the cargo fit on the instead of people...
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:12 pm

Yonderlust wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).

Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


787s with “Nurse Diesel” chief stews already make it so there are - effectively - no windows.
“Pedantic” defined: spelling “pedantic” “pædantic”.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:14 pm

Won't need a raccoon mask or cockpit windows in the future because there will be no cockpit because there will be no pilot. Singular.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:19 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
TMccrury wrote:
It seems that KLM has been working on one as well or funding someone who is and it doesn't look like the one from Airbus. Here is a link from Sam Chui on Youtube as well as a link from Flight Global about it.

https://youtu.be/cZJzD7bhE_Y

https://www.flightglobal.com/programmes ... 42.article


It's more an engineering project for TU Delft students than a real, commercial, project. + PR stunt for KLM


I was about to say, that looks a lot like the plane sitting outside the Science Centre Museum in Delft just two blocks from my house.

It's nearly this exact plane in KLM branding.

Image
Last edited by FlyRow on Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
F70-F100-RJ85-RJ70-E190-319-320-321-733-734-735-737-738-752-753-763-764-772-744-380
 
morrisond
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:20 pm

I would be happy with no windows with a nice big screen in front of me linked to Mulitple Camera's outside that can give you a view of what is around the aircraft (like a 360 back up Camera) and allows you to point to things on the screen and zoom in.

The should be totally doable with today's tech and 4K camera's.
 
planecane
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:29 pm

morrisond wrote:
I would be happy with no windows with a nice big screen in front of me linked to Mulitple Camera's outside that can give you a view of what is around the aircraft (like a 360 back up Camera) and allows you to point to things on the screen and zoom in.

The should be totally doable with today's tech and 4K camera's.


If you had individual cameras for each passenger with zoom lenses then you can zoom in very clearly. Even with 4k if you just do a digital zoom it isn't going to be great clarity from cruising altitude.

I agree that virtual windows would make that part of a BWB acceptable.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:41 pm

I guess the rich people will still be sitting in the front. ;)
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william
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:43 pm

Airbus and Boeing converging on blended wing as the only way to get the 20% or more gains from a tube and wings. Researching flying wing could also help Airbus's Defense side projects that may include a bomber, or tanker.
 
itisi
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:51 pm

afgeneral wrote:
alberchico wrote:
Yonderlust wrote:
Exactly! And we thought 10 across was bad...LOL


You do realize that on most flights, even those taking place during daylight hours, flight attendants will insist that the window shades stay closed for almost the entire trip so people can sleep and watch the seatback entertainment. So. In a way we're already flying in dark windowless tubes.


I've had 0 occasions of FAs asking passengers to close window shades in the past ~150 flights I've been on as a passenger.


It's normal on longhaul, I think it's so the pax sleeping time is from where they left but its light outside is not effected. You are NOT allowed to open them or you wake everyone up.
737-300/400/500 ... are NOT classics :)
 
morrisond
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Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:52 pm

planecane wrote:
morrisond wrote:
I would be happy with no windows with a nice big screen in front of me linked to Mulitple Camera's outside that can give you a view of what is around the aircraft (like a 360 back up Camera) and allows you to point to things on the screen and zoom in.

The should be totally doable with today's tech and 4K camera's.


If you had individual cameras for each passenger with zoom lenses then you can zoom in very clearly. Even with 4k if you just do a digital zoom it isn't going to be great clarity from cruising altitude.

I agree that virtual windows would make that part of a BWB acceptable.


I was assuming Digital Zoom - 8K camera's are available now for digital zoom at about 8-10 times(I'm not sure the ratio works like that) at HD res on the screen (which with typical Screen Sizes in Airliners is more than enough). I would assume that by BWB service entry 16K or 32K camera's will be available which could provide some impressive zoom capability.
 
kyu
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:02 pm

Re: Airbus - blended wing aircraft code name Maveric

Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:01 pm

rigo wrote:
PepeTheFrog wrote:
rigo wrote:
To hell with this. I won't be flying on anything that does not have windows (not screens).


They can make fake windows on the the inside, then camera's project the outside on the fake windows.

You won't notice the difference.


That's the strawman once used by Tim Clark but it's nonsense. Seeing something with my own eyes as opposed to watching it on a tv screen makes all the difference in the world. Especially a tv screen interrupted every two minutes by announcements and ads.

Plus, the change in perspective when the position of the eyes moves can hardly be mimicked by the screen. If that's not done, you will notice the difference instantly.

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