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majano
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:55 am

Stitch wrote:
majano wrote:
Thank you for summary. I find it interesting that the 777 and 767 freighters have delivered less this year than 2019. With the positive uptick in cargo, I would have expected 2020 to be higher.


Boeing has been prioritizing 777 freighters, but there are customers willing and able to take their 777-300ERs so Boeing contractually needs to make them. As for the 767, the freighter line is at capacity so probably just down to pre-allocation between 767F and 767-2C/KC-46A.

Makes sense, as well as the explanation about lead time abive. These two are the best freighters in the market, strength of the cargo market should result in higher deliveries once lead times and production capacity issues are out of the way.
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:29 pm

majano wrote:
Stitch wrote:
majano wrote:
Thank you for summary. I find it interesting that the 777 and 767 freighters have delivered less this year than 2019. With the positive uptick in cargo, I would have expected 2020 to be higher.


Boeing has been prioritizing 777 freighters, but there are customers willing and able to take their 777-300ERs so Boeing contractually needs to make them. As for the 767, the freighter line is at capacity so probably just down to pre-allocation between 767F and 767-2C/KC-46A.

Makes sense, as well as the explanation about lead time abive. These two are the best freighters in the market, strength of the cargo market should result in higher deliveries once lead times and production capacity issues are out of the way.

YTD comparisons with the 767s also get a bit more complicated because cargo airlines and especially the USAF were/are not always necessarily taking the 767s as soon as they were/are completed. In spring 2019, for example, the USAF took a bunch of 767-2Cs that had built earlier and stored, inflating 2019’s delivery numbers vs the mix of -2Cs and 767Fs actually manufactured in 2019.
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:04 pm

Airbus delivers 64 planes in November:
2 A220-300
1 A319ceo
29 A320neo
1 A321ceo
23 A321neo
1 A330-900
6 A350-900
1 A350-1000

https://www.airbus.com/aircraft/market/ ... eries.html
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:10 pm

Airbus expected to deliver 73+ planes in December, totaling 550+ ("sources" say).
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2IN0RQ
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:51 pm

Boeing delivers 7 aircrafts in November

2 B737-800A (P-8A Poseidon
1 B767-300F
2 B777F
1 B777-300ER
1 B747-8F

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/
 
WIederling
Posts: 10041
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:38 pm

chiad wrote:
Airbus expected to deliver 73+ planes in December, totaling 550+ ("sources" say).
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N2IN0RQ


That would bring deliveries to ~65% of 2019 numbers.

.. and NB backlog has reached nigh 2:1 ( 494 + 5,956 vs 3,333 )

expect US trade warfare to continue.
 
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PM
Posts: 5686
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:41 am

chiad wrote:
Boeing delivers 7 aircrafts in November

2 B737-800A (P-8A Poseidon
1 B767-300F
2 B777F
1 B777-300ER
1 B747-8F

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/

Not a single 787?
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:09 am

PM wrote:
chiad wrote:
Boeing delivers 7 aircrafts in November

2 B737-800A (P-8A Poseidon
1 B767-300F
2 B777F
1 B777-300ER
1 B747-8F

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/

Not a single 787?


Inspections over quality flaws and resurgent coronavirus hampers B787 deliveries.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN28I2BR
 
DartHerald
Posts: 278
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:46 am

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned this:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/v ... 99.article

Can abyone say what the cancelled order consisted of?
 
Someone83
Topic Author
Posts: 5840
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:49 am

DartHerald wrote:
I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned this:

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/v ... 99.article

Can abyone say what the cancelled order consisted of?


Is is mentioned in the order thread ;)
 
Someone83
Topic Author
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:09 pm

Airbus year to date delivered per November

YTD 2020 (YTD 2019)
A220: 32 (41)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 22 (16)

A32x: 379 (537)
A319: 2 (4)
A319neo: 0 (1)
A320: 3 (47)
A320neo: 226 (312)
A321: 9 (37)
A321neo: 139 (136)

A330: 14 (45)
A330-200: 4 (6)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 2 (0)
A330-900: 7 (34)

A350: 51 (96)
A350-900: 39 (77)
A350-1000: 12 (19)

A380: 1 (6)

Total: 477 (725)
 
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reidar76
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:26 pm

chiad wrote:
Boeing delivers 7 aircrafts in November

2 B737-800A (P-8A Poseidon
1 B767-300F
2 B777F
1 B777-300ER
1 B747-8F

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/


Boeing delivers one -1- passenger aircraft in November. This must be the worst month ever for Boeing?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:30 pm

reidar76 wrote:
Boeing delivers one -1- passenger aircraft in November. This must be the worst month ever for Boeing?


Yup, Next worse was probably the ~20 frames in October and November of 1997 due to the 737 and 747 line stops.
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:00 pm

Stitch wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
Boeing delivers one -1- passenger aircraft in November. This must be the worst month ever for Boeing?


Yup, Next worse was probably the ~20 frames in October and November of 1997 due to the 737 and 747 line stops.


It will get better from here.
One MAX 9 was delivered today to United.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/ellv5z
 
durangomac
Posts: 490
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:48 am

chiad wrote:
Stitch wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
Boeing delivers one -1- passenger aircraft in November. This must be the worst month ever for Boeing?


Yup, Next worse was probably the ~20 frames in October and November of 1997 due to the 737 and 747 line stops.


It will get better from here.
One MAX 9 was delivered today to United.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/ellv5z


N27519 was delivered yesterday. Both 7515 and 7519 are sitting at SEA being inducted.

So that is 2 737-9 Max aircraft delivered for December. :P
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:27 am

durangomac wrote:
chiad wrote:
Stitch wrote:

Yup, Next worse was probably the ~20 frames in October and November of 1997 due to the 737 and 747 line stops.


It will get better from here.
One MAX 9 was delivered today to United.
https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... nes/ellv5z


N27519 was delivered yesterday. Both 7515 and 7519 are sitting at SEA being inducted.

So that is 2 737-9 Max aircraft delivered for December. :P


Awesome!
:cloudnine:
 
durangomac
Posts: 490
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:39 pm

Looks like another 737 MAX 8 delivery this afternoon, this time for AA. N323SG

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9825/history/20201210/1730Z/KBFI/KTUL
 
Someone83
Topic Author
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:09 am

Boeings yer to date deliveres per November

YTD 2020 (YTD 2019)
737: 15 (121)

737-700: 0 (3)
737-800: 15 (39)
737-MAX 8: 0 (51)
737-900ER: 0 (22)
737-MAX 9: 0 (6)

747: 4 (7)
747-8F: 4 (7)

767: 24 (40)
767-300F: 15 (18)
767-2C: 9 (22)

777: 22 (40)
777-300ER: 4 (15)
777F: 18 (25)

787: 53 (137)
787-8: 5 (8)
787-9: 36 (99)
787-10: 12 (30)

Total: 118 (345)
 
chiad
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:23 pm

Bloomberg reports that Airbus delivered close to 560 planes in 2020.
That would mean Airbus delivered close to 83 aircrafts in December.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -late-push

IMO not bad considering ... everything.
 
oldJoe
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:38 pm

chiad wrote:
Bloomberg reports that Airbus delivered close to 560 planes in 2020.
That would mean Airbus delivered close to 83 aircrafts in December.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -late-push

IMO not bad considering ... everything.


I don´t know how many aircraft were delivered under contract in November. If I count only flown out in December I end up with 87.
Next week we will see the true numbers , but still impressive !
 
oldJoe
Posts: 1055
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:07 pm

chiad wrote:
Bloomberg reports that Airbus delivered close to 560 planes in 2020.
That would mean Airbus delivered close to 83 aircrafts in December.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -late-push

IMO not bad considering ... everything.


566 in 2020 total and 89 in December !
Wow !

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2021/01/airbus-2020-deliveries-demonstrate-resilience.html
 
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scbriml
Posts: 21502
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:41 pm

oldJoe wrote:
chiad wrote:
Bloomberg reports that Airbus delivered close to 560 planes in 2020.
That would mean Airbus delivered close to 83 aircrafts in December.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -late-push

IMO not bad considering ... everything.


566 in 2020 total and 89 in December !
Wow !

https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2021/01/airbus-2020-deliveries-demonstrate-resilience.html


In the circumstances, a very respectable total. That's the first time Airbus hasn't increased deliveries year-on-year since 2002.
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:46 am

Airbud December and full year 2020 deliveres....taht could have been a lot worse

December deliveres:
A220-300: 6
A319ceo: 1
A320neo: 27
A321neo: 39
A330-200: 1
A330-800: 1
A330-900: 3
A350-900: 6
A350-1000: 2
A380: 3

Total: 89


Full year 2020 (Full year 2019)

A220: 38 (48)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 28 (23)

A320-serien: 446 (642)
A319: 3 (4)
A319neo: 0 (2)
A320: 3 (49)
A320neo: 253 (381)
A321: 9 (38)
A321neo: 178 (168)

A330: 19 (53)
A330-200: 5 (7)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 3 (0)
A330-900: 10 (41)

A350: 59 (112)
A350-900: 45 (87)
A350-1000: 14 (25)

A380: 4 (8)



Total: 566 (863)
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:23 am

Someone83 wrote:
Airbud December and full year 2020 deliveres....taht could have been a lot worse

December deliveres:
A220-300: 6
A319ceo: 1
A320neo: 27
A321neo: 39
A330-200: 1
A330-800: 1
A330-900: 3
A350-900: 6
A350-1000: 2
A380: 3

Total: 89


Full year 2020 (Full year 2019)

A220: 38 (48)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 28 (23)

A320-serien: 446 (642)
A319: 3 (4)
A319neo: 0 (2)
A320: 3 (49)
A320neo: 253 (381)
A321: 9 (38)
A321neo: 178 (168)

A330: 19 (53)
A330-200: 5 (7)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 3 (0)
A330-900: 10 (41)

A350: 59 (112)
A350-900: 45 (87)
A350-1000: 14 (25)

A380: 4 (8)



Total: 566 (863)


Thanks Someone83

Amazing December month.
 
JonesNL
Posts: 866
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:34 am

Someone83 wrote:
Airbud December and full year 2020 deliveres....taht could have been a lot worse

December deliveres:
A220-300: 6
A319ceo: 1
A320neo: 27
A321neo: 39
A330-200: 1
A330-800: 1
A330-900: 3
A350-900: 6
A350-1000: 2
A380: 3

Total: 89


Full year 2020 (Full year 2019)

A220: 38 (48)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 28 (23)

A320-serien: 446 (642)
A319: 3 (4)
A319neo: 0 (2)
A320: 3 (49)
A320neo: 253 (381)
A321: 9 (38)
A321neo: 178 (168)

A330: 19 (53)
A330-200: 5 (7)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 3 (0)
A330-900: 10 (41)

A350: 59 (112)
A350-900: 45 (87)
A350-1000: 14 (25)

A380: 4 (8)



Total: 566 (863)


Interestingly, it seems the adopted child (A220) is performing the best with ~20% less deliveries...

Ps.: maybe not so if you consider the planned production.
 
majano
Posts: 472
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:38 pm

JonesNL wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Airbud December and full year 2020 deliveres....taht could have been a lot worse

December deliveres:
A220-300: 6
A319ceo: 1
A320neo: 27
A321neo: 39
A330-200: 1
A330-800: 1
A330-900: 3
A350-900: 6
A350-1000: 2
A380: 3

Total: 89


Full year 2020 (Full year 2019)

A220: 38 (48)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 28 (23)

A320-serien: 446 (642)
A319: 3 (4)
A319neo: 0 (2)
A320: 3 (49)
A320neo: 253 (381)
A321: 9 (38)
A321neo: 178 (168)

A330: 19 (53)
A330-200: 5 (7)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 3 (0)
A330-900: 10 (41)

A350: 59 (112)
A350-900: 45 (87)
A350-1000: 14 (25)

A380: 4 (8)



Total: 566 (863)


Interestingly, it seems the adopted child (A220) is performing the best with ~20% less deliveries...

Ps.: maybe not so if you consider the planned production.

Remarkably, there were more A321 delivered in 2020 than in 2019.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:48 pm

majano wrote:
JonesNL wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Airbud December and full year 2020 deliveres....taht could have been a lot worse

December deliveres:
A220-300: 6
A319ceo: 1
A320neo: 27
A321neo: 39
A330-200: 1
A330-800: 1
A330-900: 3
A350-900: 6
A350-1000: 2
A380: 3

Total: 89


Full year 2020 (Full year 2019)

A220: 38 (48)

A220-100: 10 (25)
A220-300: 28 (23)

A320-serien: 446 (642)
A319: 3 (4)
A319neo: 0 (2)
A320: 3 (49)
A320neo: 253 (381)
A321: 9 (38)
A321neo: 178 (168)

A330: 19 (53)
A330-200: 5 (7)
A330-300: 1 (5)
A330-800: 3 (0)
A330-900: 10 (41)

A350: 59 (112)
A350-900: 45 (87)
A350-1000: 14 (25)

A380: 4 (8)



Total: 566 (863)


Interestingly, it seems the adopted child (A220) is performing the best with ~20% less deliveries...

Ps.: maybe not so if you consider the planned production.

Remarkably, there were more A321 delivered in 2020 than in 2019.


How ?
2019 - 38 321ceo + 168 321neo = 206
2020 - 9 321ceo + 178 321neo = 187
 
majano
Posts: 472
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:41 pm

oldJoe wrote:
majano wrote:
JonesNL wrote:

Interestingly, it seems the adopted child (A220) is performing the best with ~20% less deliveries...

Ps.: maybe not so if you consider the planned production.

Remarkably, there were more A321 delivered in 2020 than in 2019.


How ?
2019 - 38 321ceo + 168 321neo = 206
2020 - 9 321ceo + 178 321neo = 187

My bad, I meant A321neo.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 1055
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:23 pm

PM wrote:
chiad wrote:
Boeing delivers 7 aircrafts in November

2 B737-800A (P-8A Poseidon
1 B767-300F
2 B777F
1 B777-300ER
1 B747-8F

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/

Not a single 787?


And the same for December , pitty but true
 
Someone83
Topic Author
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:31 pm

Boeing 2020 deliveries

YTD 2020 (YTD 2019)
737: 43 (127)

737-700: 0 (3)
737-800: 16 (45)
737-MAX 8: 18 (51)
737-900ER: 0 (22)
737-MAX 9: 9 (6)

747: 5 (7)
747-8F: 5 (7)

767: 30 (43)
767-300F: 19 (20)
767-2C: 11 (23)

777: 26 (45)
777-200LR: 0 (1)
777-300ER: 4 (19)
777F: 22 (25)

787: 53 (158)
787-8: 5 (10)
787-9: 36 (114)
787-10: 12 (34)

Total: 157 (380)
 
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reidar76
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:00 pm

I have made a diagram of Airbus and Boeing widebody pax aircraft deliveries since 1980. Airbus has had a stable growth, while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

Source for the data is Airbus' and Boeings websites. Military tankers and freighters are excluded. Market share is 45/55 in Boeings favor. (MD widebodies not counted as Boeing deliveries.)

Also notice reduced deliveries from Boeing started several years before covid19.

Image
 
chiad
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:42 pm

reidar76 wrote:
I have made a diagram of Airbus and Boeing widebody pax aircraft deliveries since 1980. Airbus has had a stable growth, while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

Source for the data is Airbus' and Boeings websites. Military tankers and freighters are excluded. Market share is 45/55 in Boeings favor. (MD widebodies not counted as Boeing deliveries.)

Also notice reduced deliveries from Boeing started several years before covid19.

Image


Thanks Reidar. Great image of the two airframers, and also the impact of Covid19.
 
94717
Posts: 2789
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:50 pm

chiad wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
I have made a diagram of Airbus and Boeing widebody pax aircraft deliveries since 1980. Airbus has had a stable growth, while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

Source for the data is Airbus' and Boeings websites. Military tankers and freighters are excluded. Market share is 45/55 in Boeings favor. (MD widebodies not counted as Boeing deliveries.)

Also notice reduced deliveries from Boeing started several years before covid19.

Image


Thanks Reidar. Great image of the two airframers, and also the impact of Covid19.


I think that the trend around 2030 will be depending on 787 and 350 getting new engines. If they get it it will probably be a situation where in a few years that 330 is gone so Airbus will only deliver 350s and Boeing manly 787s and a few 777s.
 
morrisond
Posts: 3926
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:22 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:31 pm

reidar76 wrote:
I have made a diagram of Airbus and Boeing widebody pax aircraft deliveries since 1980. Airbus has had a stable growth, while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

Source for the data is Airbus' and Boeings websites. Military tankers and freighters are excluded. Market share is 45/55 in Boeings favor. (MD widebodies not counted as Boeing deliveries.)

Also notice reduced deliveries from Boeing started several years before covid19.

Image


Pretty graph but some of the data looks suspect. For example in 1995 I get 65 Widebodies for Boeing using their website. In 1994 there are 77. For example In 1994 Boeing delivered 36 747 - 400/400D (Japanese Domestic High Density) and 400M (Combi - Unless Combi's aren't allowed either) plus 44 767 -200/200ER/300 and 300ER.

Maybe use a non-smoothed graph or bar chart to be more precise.

Why would you not include freighters/tankers? Economies of Scale that determine viability of production don't really know if the part is going into a Passenger version or Freighter and it's not as though Airbus has sold 0. In 1994 you can add another 4 744F to take the year to 81 and 1995 you can add another 15 744F/767F to take the total to 80.

The reduced deliveries for Boeing in the last few years was due to the obvious slowdown in 777 production from 100 frames per year. However if you add in the 39 767F/777F and 748F frames they built in 2018, 52 they built in 2019 and 46 they built in 2020 your graph looks a lot different....
 
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Polot
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:40 pm

reidar76 wrote:
while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

You can’t make a statement like that while excluding freighters/tankers. 3 of Boeing’s wide body lines heavily skew towards tankers/freighters in recent years (767/747/777). As long as the check clears Belong doesn’t really care if the wide body they deliver is going to FedEx, the USAF, or Emirates.

As morrisond noted freighters/tankers are all built on the same line as passenger aircraft. A freighter delivery naturally means one less passenger aircraft delivery. If you want to talk about and make comments about wide body production/delivery you have to include them.
 
2175301
Posts: 2307
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:26 pm

reidar76 wrote:
I have made a diagram of Airbus and Boeing widebody pax aircraft deliveries since 1980. Airbus has had a stable growth, while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

Source for the data is Airbus' and Boeings websites. Military tankers and freighters are excluded.


Thanks for putting the time and effort into this. It shows your interest and dedication.

It would help a lot if you would update the chart with perhaps just data points (versus smoothed "best overall fit" lines) and also include the tankers and military aircraft - as they are just as much of wide-body aircraft as passenger aircraft are.

Also, a lessor issue: Most charts have the oldest dates on the Left - and the newest dates on the Right.

Have a great day,
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Airbus and Boeing 2020 deliveries

Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:55 am

Polot wrote:
reidar76 wrote:
while Boeing are more used to large changes in annual widebody deliveries.

You can’t make a statement like that while excluding freighters/tankers. 3 of Boeing’s wide body lines heavily skew towards tankers/freighters in recent years (767/747/777). As long as the check clears Belong doesn’t really care if the wide body they deliver is going to FedEx, the USAF, or Emirates.

As morrisond noted freighters/tankers are all built on the same line as passenger aircraft. A freighter delivery naturally means one less passenger aircraft delivery. If you want to talk about and make comments about wide body production/delivery you have to include them.


I want to add a bad comparison if freight is excluded:

I missed freighters were excluded. I understand wanting to stay commercial, but excluding freighters justs masks Airbus was kicked out of that market.

That takes out (from Wikipedia)
201 777F

It artificially removes all 767 deliveries. That artificially decimates 2017, 2018, and 2020 deliveries.

It also artificially removes all 747 deliveries.

Including freighters has Boeing really flat 2015 throu 2019 in widebody deliveries in the 252 to 268 range.

In the same time, Airbus delivered 144 to 173.

There was an Airbus ramp up on the A350.

Freighters are a huge business for Boeing. That is the 747 and 767 commercial line and has been good business on the 777.

In 2020 and 2021, freight is the only reasons the 747, 767, and 777 lines were viable and we can debate 747 and A380 line viability.

Airbus needs a factory A330NEO freighter. The A330F failed on lack of TATL range at full payload. The success of the A330P2F shows there is a market, it is a question of price to capability.

We need to be careful. Freight is what will keep the 777, 767, and 747 flying for decades. It will ensure the A330 parts network remains in good shape too.

In my opinion, the only widebodies are the 787 and A350 are long term viable without the economy of scale provided by freighters after this shutdown.

Lightsaber

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