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Midwestindy
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Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:07 pm

2020 & late 2019 has seen AA make significant investment in its non-hub markets:

RDU: 5x RDU-BOS, +1 RDU-PIT (June 2020), 1xRDU-PHX (yes I know PHX is a hub)
AUS: 2x AUS-BOS, 2x AUS-SJC, 1x weekly AUS-SJD
BOS: 5x BOS-RDU, 2x BOS-AUS, 2x BOS-IND, 1x BOS-LHR, 1x weekly BOS-EYW/ILM/GCM/NAS

Last May RDU was at 50 departures/day this May they will be sitting at 64 departures/day.....

Could this be the start of a transition for the airline, into dabbling in focus cities?

Here is a graph showing size relative to JFK, note I used May since AA hasn't updated June schedules yet.
Image
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D L X
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:17 pm

I've been pretty impressed by the size of the BOS operation. That was a traditional hotspot for US Airways, and they have done a GREAT job renovating Terminal B. Adding BOS-LHR seems like they're going to turn it into a full-fledged focus city.

Also, how far has JFK fallen for AA that there are non-hubs that have nearly as much or more departures?
 
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Coronado990
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:38 pm

Would SAN be after AUS on the graph if ATL wasn't on there twice?
We're up.
 
UpNAWAy
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:46 pm

I think the real answer to the question is wait until the Max is back flying and new deliveries are back on schedule and lets see where all that capacity goes.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:47 pm

This is what I was asking about a few weeks ago. The line between "good size station" and "focus city" is blurred. I suspect that there may be strategy opportunities at these stations and the next step down stations as well. Take AUS for example... is there really any limit to the opportunity there over time? Is it really just a spoke? AA can think about what is the long term most profitable future strategy in Austin, not just what flights will do best this quarter. Sometimes those are 2 different answers with 2 different route structures.
 
phllax
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:49 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
2020 & late 2019 has seen AA make significant investment in its non-hub markets:

RDU: 5x RDU-BOS, +1 RDU-PIT (June 2020), 1xRDU-PHX (yes I know PHX is a hub)
AUS: 2x AUS-BOS, 2x AUS-SJC, 1x weekly AUS-SJD
BOS: 5x BOS-RDU, 2x BOS-AUS, 2x BOS-IND, 1x BOS-LHR, 1x weekly BOS-EYW/ILM/GCM/NAS


The RDU -BOS/PIT flights were previously flown by US, as were BOS-GCM/NAS. AA previously served AUS-SJC.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:51 pm

phllax wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
2020 & late 2019 has seen AA make significant investment in its non-hub markets:

RDU: 5x RDU-BOS, +1 RDU-PIT (June 2020), 1xRDU-PHX (yes I know PHX is a hub)
AUS: 2x AUS-BOS, 2x AUS-SJC, 1x weekly AUS-SJD
BOS: 5x BOS-RDU, 2x BOS-AUS, 2x BOS-IND, 1x BOS-LHR, 1x weekly BOS-EYW/ILM/GCM/NAS


The RDU -BOS/PIT flights were previously flown by US, as were BOS-GCM/NAS. AA previously served AUS-SJC.


RDU PHX was previously served as well
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:58 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
phllax wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
2020 & late 2019 has seen AA make significant investment in its non-hub markets:

RDU: 5x RDU-BOS, +1 RDU-PIT (June 2020), 1xRDU-PHX (yes I know PHX is a hub)
AUS: 2x AUS-BOS, 2x AUS-SJC, 1x weekly AUS-SJD
BOS: 5x BOS-RDU, 2x BOS-AUS, 2x BOS-IND, 1x BOS-LHR, 1x weekly BOS-EYW/ILM/GCM/NAS


The RDU -BOS/PIT flights were previously flown by US, as were BOS-GCM/NAS. AA previously served AUS-SJC.


RDU PHX was previously served as well


phllax wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
2020 & late 2019 has seen AA make significant investment in its non-hub markets:

RDU: 5x RDU-BOS, +1 RDU-PIT (June 2020), 1xRDU-PHX (yes I know PHX is a hub)
AUS: 2x AUS-BOS, 2x AUS-SJC, 1x weekly AUS-SJD
BOS: 5x BOS-RDU, 2x BOS-AUS, 2x BOS-IND, 1x BOS-LHR, 1x weekly BOS-EYW/ILM/GCM/NAS


The RDU -BOS/PIT flights were previously flown by US, as were BOS-GCM/NAS. AA previously served AUS-SJC.


And? What's your point? The discussion is about YOY growth
Last edited by Midwestindy on Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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axiom
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:59 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Would SAN be after AUS on the graph if ATL wasn't on there twice?


Likely if departures were swapped for seats (then you would see more coastal markets over RJ-heavy interior biz markets)
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:01 pm

Coronado990 wrote:
Would SAN be after AUS on the graph if ATL wasn't on there twice?


There are quite a few markets at similar size to SAN departures wise, TPA, MCI, DEN, to name a few
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BNAMealer
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:02 pm

Maybe, but I think the term focus city is not really well defined. What is it suppose to be?

I’m surprised they still have a sizable operation at BNA. With some upgauging (BNA needs to see more mainline from AA) and a new Admirals Club, they probably could lock up most of the legacy corporate contracts in town, especially if MNAA can land JL down the road.

I also can’t believe how much they’ve done in BOS!
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:09 pm

What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...
 
B752OS
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:20 pm

ojjunior wrote:
What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...


You have a larger sized metro area at almost 4.7 million people. Expand that to its CSA (which includes most of Rhode Island and Southern NH) and it's catchment area grows to over 8 million people. You have large employment centers for industries that travel - technology, consulting, biotech, healthcare and education. It's also one of the largest financial centers in North America. Boston is in the top 10 for foreign visitors, it sits at #9 or #10 I believe. It is one of the most visited US cities for US tourists. It's not on the scale of say Las Vegas, but it does draw a large number of US visitors, particularly from May through October. So there definitely is a healthy tourism component to go along with it being a large and important business market.
Last edited by B752OS on Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:24 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
This is what I was asking about a few weeks ago. The line between "good size station" and "focus city" is blurred. I suspect that there may be strategy opportunities at these stations and the next step down stations as well. Take AUS for example... is there really any limit to the opportunity there over time? Is it really just a spoke? AA can think about what is the long term most profitable future strategy in Austin, not just what flights will do best this quarter. Sometimes those are 2 different answers with 2 different route structures.


I never thought I 'd see 31 AA flights out of MEM, which is what's bookable on Monday, June 1st at the moment. And... to here Brockman from MEM tell it, the Max has held that back, I'm thinking LAX on that. It has grown into a good sized station, adding LAX and then one or three of RDU, AUS, and BOS would take the cake.
 
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:33 pm

B752OS wrote:
ojjunior wrote:
What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...


You have a larger sized metro area at almost 4.7 million people. Expand that to its CSA (which includes most of Rhode Island and Southern NH) and it's catchment area grows to over 8 million people. You have large employment centers for industries that travel - technology, consulting, biotech, healthcare and education. It's also one of the largest financial centers in North America. Boston is in the top 10 for foreign visitors, it sits at #9 or #10 I believe. It is one of the most visited US cities for US tourists. It's not on the scale of say Las Vegas, but it does draw a large number of US visitors, particularly from May through October. So there definitely is a healthy tourism component to go along with it being a large and important business market.

It's also a pretty wealthy area.
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Antarius
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:38 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Maybe, but I think the term focus city is not really well defined. What is it suppose to be?

I’m surprised they still have a sizable operation at BNA. With some upgauging (BNA needs to see more mainline from AA) and a new Admirals Club, they probably could lock up most of the legacy corporate contracts in town, especially if MNAA can land JL down the road.

I also can’t believe how much they’ve done in BOS!


To me,

Outstation- service only to hubs
Focus city - service from hubs and some service to non hubs
Hub - major connecting point for airline

It isn't entirely objective, as one Saturday service does not make a focus city. I would consider RDU one, for example.
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:46 pm

ojjunior wrote:
What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...

1. Top class world class educational and research institutions
2. Highly diversified economy that includes research, investment banking, hi-tech and biotech companies
3. As someone already mentioned, a rich economy that also fuels visitors
4. A good wealthy catchment area if you include parts of RI
5. One World has significant presence in BOS and has expanded well over the years to Europe, Asia,
6. Lastly, there is no single airline monopoly - B6 has the highest market share, DL has been expanding especially in the international side. For a very longtime AA was content being a fence sitter but now realizes there is a good market opportunity and probably their corporate customers are asking for it. AA also has a new remodeled terminal and probably on the verge of losing the gates if they are not using it to full potential.

These are just some key points and I am sure folks can come with a lot more.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:55 pm

How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?
 
iyerhari
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:06 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?


BOS B4-22 19 gates.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:26 pm

iyerhari wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?


BOS B4-22 19 gates.


So, if they got 7 turns a day out of each gate , they could feasibly get up to around 133 a day?
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:29 pm

Mainline AA ramp is coming back to BNA. Which means they could handle more mainline flights. Envoy handles the ramp now, but there is a limit per contract that says how many mainline flights they can handle.
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alasizon
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:39 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?


BOS B4-22 19 gates.


So, if they got 7 turns a day out of each gate , they could feasibly get up to around 133 a day?


In theory, sure but BOS is very AM & PM heavy in terms of O&D so the realistic profitable limit is about 115-120 unless they start offering more connections over BOS which is unlikely in my opinion.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:40 pm

WaywardMemphian wrote:
iyerhari wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?


BOS B4-22 19 gates.


So, if they got 7 turns a day out of each gate , they could feasibly get up to around 133 a day?

If they can't do better than seven a day they aren't fit to run an airline, given that many departures are domestic, and many are RJs. An average of 10-11 would show a little ambition.
 
alasizon
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:43 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
WaywardMemphian wrote:
iyerhari wrote:

BOS B4-22 19 gates.


So, if they got 7 turns a day out of each gate , they could feasibly get up to around 133 a day?

If they can't do better than seven a day they aren't fit to run an airline, given that many departures are domestic, and many are RJs. An average of 10-11 would show a little ambition.


AA at BOS is almost entirely mainline; there are only 6-7 daily RJs so "many are RJs" is a very false statement.

Even in the summer post-expansion, you are looking at 16-17 RJs versus 80+ Mainline.
Last edited by alasizon on Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:46 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
How many gates does AA have in BOS and RDU?


Technically T2 is a Common Use terminal. That being said, I think they use about 7-8 gates on the reg.
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:50 pm

I'm a bit skeptical that the BOS-LHR flight will last all that long, and I get the impression it was targeted at JetBlue (even though the likelihood of JetBlue getting LHR is rather small). Advance bookings seem thin, and I wonder whether AA will have the patience to keep it going.
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D L X
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:51 pm

ojjunior wrote:
What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...

Here are the things that drive flights out of BOS:
1) Business
2) Connections
3) Tourism, including international tourism.

I mean, no, it’s not New York, but it is one of the most international cities in the US. Two of the worlds preeminent universities are there, and three more draw huge international student bodies. It’s a center for science and technology research (think Mass General, Route 128, Lincoln and Draper Labs, Bose, Intuit, etc.) It’s a financial and insurance capital. It is the Hub of New England. It has a large population of Italian, Irish, Portuguese, and Chinese immigrants, and has a 400-year connection with London.

Don’t sleep on Boston. The ONLY thing that prevents it from being a central connecting hub is that it’s on the corner of the country.
 
N649DL
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:57 pm

BOS, RDU, and AUS are all historically large AA markets with BOS / RDU being former hubs (or BOS was pretty close to it at least pre-9/11.) So it's no surprise AA would want to try to expand their larger spokes once again.

There are some other markets that when AA and US combined had close to 50+ flights a day overnight and are just naturally large spokes by nature as well. ATL is one of them.
Last edited by N649DL on Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:57 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical that the BOS-LHR flight will last all that long, and I get the impression it was targeted at JetBlue (even though the likelihood of JetBlue getting LHR is rather small). Advance bookings seem thin, and I wonder whether AA will have the patience to keep it going.


Honestly, I find it strange they immediately went for the 772 instead of something like the 788 or even the 752. I suppose they’re trying to be aggressive to push away DL/VS’ new flights and JetBlue in the future.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:04 pm

ChrisNH38 wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical that the BOS-LHR flight will last all that long, and I get the impression it was targeted at JetBlue (even though the likelihood of JetBlue getting LHR is rather small). Advance bookings seem thin, and I wonder whether AA will have the patience to keep it going.

Couldn't that be said to most of the recent AA adds such as AUS, RDU etc. that are served by the likes of DL, B6 etc.? I suppose AA sees an opportunity to fully utilize their allotted gates OR are getting tired of playing a second fiddle to DL who has been expanding- there is also a good possibility that there maybe some big corporate contracts in play. You are correct - they are giving it a shot and sometimes things take time. Hopefully it works out good for them.
 
heretothere
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:08 pm

Clearly AA has had a change of heart in BOS. And for good reason IMO considering:

-They have historically been strong there, and their BOS-hub flying is a great base for building something further.
-They have good international partner service to supplement their own service
-They already have a mainline pilot base, and now thanks to DL, a Republic base as well
-They have the real estate to grow

Beyond BOS though, what non-hub flying are we talking about? As far as I know it’s just AUS-SJC and RDU-PIT that are daily and non-hub (so excluding AUS-SJD and RDU-LHR).

We’ll have to wait and see if this is a network wide strategy change or mostly a BOS one.
 
D L X
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:22 pm

Ishrion wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical that the BOS-LHR flight will last all that long, and I get the impression it was targeted at JetBlue (even though the likelihood of JetBlue getting LHR is rather small). Advance bookings seem thin, and I wonder whether AA will have the patience to keep it going.


Honestly, I find it strange they immediately went for the 772 instead of something like the 788 or even the 752. I suppose they’re trying to be aggressive to push away DL/VS’ new flights and JetBlue in the future.

I think they're taking over one of the many daily BA flights. BOS-LON is a huge market, and they really don't want to backtrack to JFK or PHL and add 4 hours to this short flight.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:26 pm

D L X wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
ChrisNH38 wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical that the BOS-LHR flight will last all that long, and I get the impression it was targeted at JetBlue (even though the likelihood of JetBlue getting LHR is rather small). Advance bookings seem thin, and I wonder whether AA will have the patience to keep it going.


Honestly, I find it strange they immediately went for the 772 instead of something like the 788 or even the 752. I suppose they’re trying to be aggressive to push away DL/VS’ new flights and JetBlue in the future.

I think they're taking over one of the many daily BA flights. BOS-LON is a huge market, and they really don't want to backtrack to JFK or PHL and add 4 hours to this short flight.


I don’t think they’re taking over a BA frequency.

The new flight fits into the current British Airways schedule with a peak evening departure (American Flight No. 108) from BOS and adds a new morning departure from LHR (American Flight No. 109)


http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
 
D L X
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:35 pm

Didn’t BA have three daily BOS flights for the winter, now just two?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:50 pm

heretothere wrote:
Clearly AA has had a change of heart in BOS. And for good reason IMO considering:

-They have historically been strong there, and their BOS-hub flying is a great base for building something further.
-They have good international partner service to supplement their own service
-They already have a mainline pilot base, and now thanks to DL, a Republic base as well
-They have the real estate to grow

Beyond BOS though, what non-hub flying are we talking about? As far as I know it’s just AUS-SJC and RDU-PIT that are daily and non-hub (so excluding AUS-SJD and RDU-LHR).

We’ll have to wait and see if this is a network wide strategy change or mostly a BOS one.


Some examples of non hub flying would be:

MCO, YYZ, ATL, STL, BNA
 
reednavy
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:54 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Mainline AA ramp is coming back to BNA. Which means they could handle more mainline flights. Envoy handles the ramp now, but there is a limit per contract that says how many mainline flights they can handle.

Hopefully that gets done and ratified ASAP to get their game at BNA back into play.
 
FSDan
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:54 pm

The AA BOS-LHR flight is supplemental to BA's 4, for a total of 5 between AA/BA. This is a low risk flight given the cooperation with BA (including the ability to feed lots of onward destinations beyond LHR) and the fact that this is about as short as long haul flights get.

On the subject of AA restarting BOS-LHR this summer, does anyone know which gate(s) at Terminal B can handle widebodies? Going by Google maps, it looks like an adjacent gate would need to be blocked to fit a widebody at any of AA's gates...
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heretothere
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:11 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
heretothere wrote:
Clearly AA has had a change of heart in BOS. And for good reason IMO considering:

-They have historically been strong there, and their BOS-hub flying is a great base for building something further.
-They have good international partner service to supplement their own service
-They already have a mainline pilot base, and now thanks to DL, a Republic base as well
-They have the real estate to grow

Beyond BOS though, what non-hub flying are we talking about? As far as I know it’s just AUS-SJC and RDU-PIT that are daily and non-hub (so excluding AUS-SJD and RDU-LHR).

We’ll have to wait and see if this is a network wide strategy change or mostly a BOS one.


Some examples of non hub flying would be:

MCO, YYZ, ATL, STL, BNA


I wasn’t asking for hypotheticals, I was asking what makes people believe this strategy extends beyond BOS? So far it’s just been AUS-SJC added as a daily non-hub/BOS route. One is not yet a trend. Maybe more are coming, we’ll have to wait and see.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:22 pm

FSDan wrote:
The AA BOS-LHR flight is supplemental to BA's 4, for a total of 5 between AA/BA. This is a low risk flight given the cooperation with BA (including the ability to feed lots of onward destinations beyond LHR) and the fact that this is about as short as long haul flights get.

On the subject of AA restarting BOS-LHR this summer, does anyone know which gate(s) at Terminal B can handle widebodies? Going by Google maps, it looks like an adjacent gate would need to be blocked to fit a widebody at any of AA's gates...


How about that gate with the really long jetbridge? The one next to "Berkshire Farms Market".
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:30 pm

heretothere wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
heretothere wrote:
Clearly AA has had a change of heart in BOS. And for good reason IMO considering:

-They have historically been strong there, and their BOS-hub flying is a great base for building something further.
-They have good international partner service to supplement their own service
-They already have a mainline pilot base, and now thanks to DL, a Republic base as well
-They have the real estate to grow

Beyond BOS though, what non-hub flying are we talking about? As far as I know it’s just AUS-SJC and RDU-PIT that are daily and non-hub (so excluding AUS-SJD and RDU-LHR).

We’ll have to wait and see if this is a network wide strategy change or mostly a BOS one.


Some examples of non hub flying would be:

MCO, YYZ, ATL, STL, BNA


I wasn’t asking for hypotheticals, I was asking what makes people believe this strategy extends beyond BOS? So far it’s just been AUS-SJC added as a daily non-hub/BOS route. One is not yet a trend. Maybe more are coming, we’ll have to wait and see.


The reason I expect it might work is because some cities like BNA and AUS are booming. Even cities like DSM are doing well. It leads me to suspect they can support some more P2P. This could be a crackpot theory but I see DL doing interesting things from BOS, SEA, LAX. Consider BOS-BNA, Delta serves that and AA does not. DL serves MCI-LAX twice a day and AA not. CMH-BOS, same thing again.

Now how about this... RDU-BNA... Delta has a daily CR9 there. I'm not trying to praise Delta, but Delta happens to be doing some things that I am looking at with AA in mind.
 
twicearound
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:33 pm

ojjunior wrote:
What on Earth drives so many flights out of BOS? Business? Connections?
BOS isn't certainly among top destinations in US for tourism.
Just wondering, I'm not familiar with BOS status...


One word: MONEY
BOS was traditionally a large operation for US Airways/AA.
As far as the city itself, It is one of the wealthiest cities in the country, and has one of the most well traveled local populations as well. Additionally, it is an economic powerhouse in the healthcare, insurance, technology, finance, and educational fields. Add to that it actually does in fact have a HUGE tourism pull, and a MSA of almost 5 million, and its geographic location, it should all start to make sense.
 
FSDan
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:47 pm

Ishrion wrote:
FSDan wrote:
The AA BOS-LHR flight is supplemental to BA's 4, for a total of 5 between AA/BA. This is a low risk flight given the cooperation with BA (including the ability to feed lots of onward destinations beyond LHR) and the fact that this is about as short as long haul flights get.

On the subject of AA restarting BOS-LHR this summer, does anyone know which gate(s) at Terminal B can handle widebodies? Going by Google maps, it looks like an adjacent gate would need to be blocked to fit a widebody at any of AA's gates...


How about that gate with the really long jetbridge? The one next to "Berkshire Farms Market".


Ah, taking a closer look, it does appear that gate (B22, I think?) could handle widebodies.

However, it also appears upon inspection that AA has 18 gates at Terminal B, not 19 as someone upthread mentioned. Looks like there is no B13.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
heretothere
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:58 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
heretothere wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Some examples of non hub flying would be:

MCO, YYZ, ATL, STL, BNA


I wasn’t asking for hypotheticals, I was asking what makes people believe this strategy extends beyond BOS? So far it’s just been AUS-SJC added as a daily non-hub/BOS route. One is not yet a trend. Maybe more are coming, we’ll have to wait and see.


The reason I expect it might work is because some cities like BNA and AUS are booming. Even cities like DSM are doing well. It leads me to suspect they can support some more P2P. This could be a crackpot theory but I see DL doing interesting things from BOS, SEA, LAX. Consider BOS-BNA, Delta serves that and AA does not. DL serves MCI-LAX twice a day and AA not. CMH-BOS, same thing again.

Now how about this... RDU-BNA... Delta has a daily CR9 there. I'm not trying to praise Delta, but Delta happens to be doing some things that I am looking at with AA in mind.


I would argue that all the DL routes you mentioned aren’t really P2P. DL was in a unique position post-merger where BOS, LAX, and SEA were all something in between a focus city and a hub. As real estate has opened up in these cities DL has taken advantage and grown them into real hubs. CVG obviously has gone from hub to focus city. The only true spoke to focus city conversion by DL has been RDU and maybe MIA depending on how that unfolds. They’ve named AUS, BNA, and SJC as focus cities but I haven’t seen any additions that make me think they are more than important spokes.

Anyway, relating this to AA, I see BOS for them in the focus city to hub category. As far as building new focus cities, we’ll have to wait and see if this is something AA is actually interested in beyond a one-off here and there like AUS-SJC.
 
B752OS
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:09 am

D L X wrote:
Didn’t BA have three daily BOS flights for the winter, now just two?


BA currently runs LHR-BOS at 24x weekly. Come the summer, they will run it at 4x daily.
 
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Chapmads
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:36 am

FSDan wrote:
The AA BOS-LHR flight is supplemental to BA's 4, for a total of 5 between AA/BA. This is a low risk flight given the cooperation with BA (including the ability to feed lots of onward destinations beyond LHR) and the fact that this is about as short as long haul flights get.

On the subject of AA restarting BOS-LHR this summer, does anyone know which gate(s) at Terminal B can handle widebodies? Going by Google maps, it looks like an adjacent gate would need to be blocked to fit a widebody at any of AA's gates...


I’ve flown on an A330 out of B8, so that one can.
 
ScottB
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:53 pm

FSDan wrote:
On the subject of AA restarting BOS-LHR this summer, does anyone know which gate(s) at Terminal B can handle widebodies? Going by Google maps, it looks like an adjacent gate would need to be blocked to fit a widebody at any of AA's gates...


Back in the late 1990s, US planned to use BOS as an international gateway. The wider, taller section in the middle of the now-AA pier is the result of a terminal renovation done at that time to accommodate widebody aircraft with much larger holdrooms. I'm pretty sure B6 and B8 can take widebodies, and I think B4 can as well. B22 might also be a possibility.
 
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Midwestindy
Topic Author
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:46 pm

heretothere wrote:
Clearly AA has had a change of heart in BOS. And for good reason IMO considering:

-They have historically been strong there, and their BOS-hub flying is a great base for building something further.
-They have good international partner service to supplement their own service
-They already have a mainline pilot base, and now thanks to DL, a Republic base as well
-They have the real estate to grow

Beyond BOS though, what non-hub flying are we talking about? As far as I know it’s just AUS-SJC and RDU-PIT that are daily and non-hub (so excluding AUS-SJD and RDU-LHR).

We’ll have to wait and see if this is a network wide strategy change or mostly a BOS one.


I mean they are planning to increase RDU by 14 flights yoy, that alone is significant for a market of RDU's size.....
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
saab805
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:02 pm

Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:52 pm

See today's announcement about SEA...
 
D L X
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:41 pm

saab805 wrote:
See today's announcement about SEA...

....


a link would be nice.
 
iyerhari
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Re: Is AA finally looking at growing its non-hub markets?

Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:48 pm

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

AS joined Oneworld
AA to start SEA-BLR - AA finally coming back to India!

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