Yes I know, but as Trump stated before that NATO is in fact an american organization with European members. NATO is nothing more than an excuse for Americans to allow military intervention in conflicts without appearing to be interfering. When was the last time NATO came remotely close to doing something that was not an strategically American interest?
That’s not really my point. Dmoney was arguing that the EU was never going to have a common European army because “ NATO remains the main defense organization with or without the US.”
I was pointing out that if the US leaves NATO then NATO effectively is
a common European army and the EU would be the ones effectively leading it and making its decisions (or let it die, in which case Europe won’t have a main defense organization period).
Dmoney is acting like NATO is some UN organization and that the EU never has to be actively involved with it, and it will always be around as a main defense organization even if the US left.
This is American ignorance. Not everything with a European dimension as a EU role. Austria, Cyprus, Finland, Ireland, Malta, and Sweden are all in the EU but not in Nato while Switzerland is basically in the EU but not in NATO.
These are all countries with long and complex histories and good reason not to be part of a common European defense organization. So you could get rid of NATO or have the US leave NATO and the EU will not have a common European army. Thats not the role of the EU and asking for trouble.
Plenty of those countries are enthusiastic members of the EU but categorically could not be part of an EU army. European common defense does happen (NATO) and could happen in the future but it won't happen through the EU.
None of that really matters. France, Spain, Germany, and Italy, for example, are all actively involved in NATO, all part of the EU, and all actively involved in the arms industry (whether that is through Airbus Military, Eurofighter, Dassault, or others). I don’t know why you think the A400M is not a strategically important program for the EU (to bring this back on topic). It is a very much a program designed to bolster the EU defense industry and be less reliant on foreign (re: American) metal. The EU would not be happy to see Airbus cut the program, especially considering the billions they have poured into it.
You are being way too literal with EU versus European. It really doesn’t matter. The point is European governments wouldn’t be happy if the A400M was cut. Whether they are part of the EU or not is really relevant. There very much is a European military industry, even if it is not the size of the US’s.