AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Adipocere · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:36 pm

Will this finally trigger the much anticipated end of PHX as a hub as AA builds up SEA instead?

enilria · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:37 pm

runway23 wrote:
AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Adding two flights does not make SEA a hub. It was already an AS hub. We will see if they add more.

casinterest · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:39 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Anyone know where this LHR slot is coming from?

They have a year to figure it out

Maybe they drop RDU.
For Seattle it would be a no brainer. But not sure if the times will line up.

Corpsnerd09 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:39 pm

Adipocere wrote:
Will this finally trigger the much anticipated end of PHX as a hub as AA builds up SEA instead?

They don't need to build a hub there, they have AS... Without a central mountain hub like DEN or SLC, a split PHX/SEA strategy with AS using their established loyalty and FF base could compete better with PHX reinforcing the American southwest than alone

LH748 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:42 pm

Very interesting development that I didn't see coming although I'm not really sure why they would need to serve LHR themselves when they have BA. I think they could use that plane better for another European destination like CDG, MAD, MAN, MUC or ZRH

zakuivcustom · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:42 pm

AS joining oneworld, while a pleasant surprise, is not a total shock as they already codeshare with a fair amount of OW carriers anyway (AA, CX, JL, AY, and for now, LA).

The battle in Seattle is on...perhaps Boston is next? (Cough...Jetblue...)

dfdubflyer · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:42 pm

So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

I'm curious about Alaska's strategy. it seems like lately they've drawn down a lot of mid-con from SFO to retrench in PNW. I do wonder if being a part of OW would make some of those flights suddenly more tenable if AA FFs who need to get to SFO are suddenly flying you.

This is really, really crazy. Biggest domestic market move in the last five years?

jfk777 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:42 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Anyone know where this LHR slot is coming from?

AA has a huge amount of Heathrow slots, among the largest after BA. Every time a new AA flights starts this question always comes up, why ? Just accept they have enough slots, AA isn't going to cut back any of their other LHR flights.

x1234 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:43 pm

Also I think its high time for DL and their Pacific JV partner KE to make BOM & DEL daily and launch BLR like they have with their EU partners (AF/KL).

Boof02671 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:44 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Tristar787 wrote:
Interesting development. I can’t imagine DL being thrilled about this. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them find a slot at LHR to launch RDU-LHR as a response. But congrats to AS/AA! SEA is definitely busting at the seams at the moment waiting for the expansion to wrap up.

AA’s RDU-LHR Flight has huge corporate contracts especially from GSK which buys seats on every flight.

AA has some guarantees, but don’t think DL doesn’t have any. It’s highly possible that DL could get VS to launch RDU-LON on a 788 and be able to have the front of the plane full. There are plenty of cards to Europe in DL hand. But they just may not be ready to pull that trigger. But yes, DL or VS launching LHR would be a big hit to AA and they would have to probably move from the 777 to the 767 or 787. But I think both routes would work. Although would KLM 787 work better with their much higher fees but lower business ties? Thoughts

A good friend takes the AA flight several times a month and it’s always pretty full especially upfront.

maps4ltd · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:44 pm

Bangalore seems like something out of an April Fools thread.

jfk777 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:46 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

AA probably will not to Asia any time soon but this will help their OW partners Cathay Pacific and JAL with their SEA flights. British Airways will also benefit too.

VTCIE · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:46 pm

Absolutely out of the blue here from AA, AS and Oneworld. To launch flights to BLR, the one Indian destination that has been absolutely begging for direct service to the US, is a killer move, and to do this from the hub of frenemy Alaska Airlines to form a united front against Delta at SEA is simply unbelievable.

Also unbelievable is the huge blindside that Alaska will join Oneworld. Clearly this is retaliation from losing Latin America and LATAM to Delta, and now American and Alaska, both being Oneworld members (and the latter already partnering with AY, CX, JAL and others), can have a potential stranglehold at SEA in the northwest to make up for the partial loss of MIA in the southeast.

Miamiairport · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:48 pm

Seems as though AA is hitting back at DL between this and the increased frequencies at MIA. Could this be the new AA that doesn't back down.

cschleic · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:49 pm

jplatts wrote:
AA adding SEA-BOS nonstop service might be a possibility with AA having recently added a few other point-to-point nonstop routes out of BOS.

AA adding SEA-AUS nonstop service might also be a possibility with AA having recently announced plans to resume SJC-AUS nonstop service and AA having recently added BOS-AUS nonstop service.

While JL already serves NRT nonstop from SEA, AA adding SEA-HND nonstop service might be a possibility if AA acquires extra slots at HND (beyond the extra slots that AA will be using on DFW-HND starting next month).

Not sure why they need to add BOS and AUS routes...their future alliance partner already operates them.

From a FF standpoint, AS needed to do something like this. Despite flying to many cities across the U.S., frequencies remain limited and concentrated from the SEA and PDX hubs, other than routes from SFO and LAX. First with the loss of DL then AA, mileage opportunities have been reduced to an inconvenient level for business travelers. As I've discovered lately, planning an international trip through AS with current partners, whether paid or mileage, provides limited options compared to what a regular US3 flyer could get. It puts AS at a competitive disadvantage as they expand nationally and want to drive more business. It might also help them remain independent as it makes them more relevant to their customers, and an alliance member doesn't need to buy them because they can just codeshare flights and benefit from alliance mileage opportunities. Of course, the LATAM situation was unique so nobody knows what could happen. Will be interesting to see how the AS mileage plan changes now.

Tristar787 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:49 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Tristar787 wrote:
Interesting development. I can’t imagine DL being thrilled about this. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them find a slot at LHR to launch RDU-LHR as a response. But congrats to AS/AA! SEA is definitely busting at the seams at the moment waiting for the expansion to wrap up.

AA’s RDU-LHR Flight has huge corporate contracts especially from GSK which buys seats on every flight.

It’s not only all about GSK as this route has matured over the years. I’m aware as I personally fly this route regularly. I also know that DL has a huge FF base in the Triangle as the leading carrier. VS has also stated that they want to fly fly LHR-RDU if the expansion LHR gets the final green light.

sw733 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:50 pm

This is interesting and exciting for me. I get to Bangalore once or twice a year and currently have to double-connect MCI-DFW/ORD-LHR-BLR. Now the opportunity to go MCI-SEA-BLR is going to be very, very tempting. I'm really quite excited.

Richardgoesto · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:50 pm

I do not get why you are all surprised by BLR. Bangalore is a giant market for corporate travel. It is probably the main destination for this kind of market.
I was meeting a lot of business travel consultants and travel manager last week and they were all agreeing that BLR is the market with the highest demand for business trips in India.

tphuang · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:51 pm

x1234 wrote:
Also I think its high time for DL and their Pacific JV partner KE to make BOM & DEL daily and launch BLR like they have with their EU partners (AF/KL).

What do you think is the relationship between South Korea and India that would warrant such additional service.

flyfresno · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:51 pm

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dfdubflyer wrote:
So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

It's sort of what DL did before they started building up their domestic presence there. I am guessing more is on the way, but I would put money on most OneWorld hubs being served mostly by their own OneWorld airlines (like Cathay to HKG, which we could see more frequency on after all the issues over there get resolved, and JAL to NRT/HND, which could get more flying too). Will we see SYD next?

OzarkD9S · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:52 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:

So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

AA will have the largest domestic presence in SEA in the form of AS.

dfdubflyer · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:53 pm

jfk777 wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:
So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

AA probably will not to Asia any time soon but this will help their OW partners Cathay Pacific and JAL with their SEA flights. British Airways will also benefit too.

Huh? They announced a flight to Bangalore...

USAirALB · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:54 pm

I thought it was April Fool's Day for a moment. Wow. Just wow. I literally almost just s**t my pants on the Metro reading this right now.

So many questions:

-Why did AS/AA reverse some of their partnership benefits/FF program devaluation, only to reverse course now? How long has this been in the making?
-What is the future of LAX with this announcement? "Serving India nonstop from LAX is impossible with our current fleet?"
-Is DP still at the controls? Seems to bold for his leadership style.
-What happens to AS's mileage based FF program?

If anything these flights will essentially be "Alaska Airlines International operated by American Airlines".

Ziyulu · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:54 pm

Does AA still codeshare with HU for flights to China?

dfdubflyer · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:54 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
dfdubflyer wrote:

So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

AA will have the largest domestic presence in SEA in the form of AS.

Does American make money on AS flying somebody to SEA and connecting them onto AA metal that AS puts their code on? I dont know the answer to that but I assume they must

ZazuPIT · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:56 pm

dfdubflyer wrote:
So American is going to build an Intl hub at SEA without any domestic presence?

I'm curious about Alaska's strategy. it seems like lately they've drawn down a lot of mid-con from SFO to retrench in PNW. I do wonder if being a part of OW would make some of those flights suddenly more tenable if AA FFs who need to get to SFO are suddenly flying you.

This is really, really crazy. Biggest domestic market move in the last five years?

Did you miss the part about AS and OW? They got themselves a hookup with the largest player in SEA. They don't need a ton of domestic routes on their own metal with AS cooperating. As much as I dislike AA, this is a bold move and good for AA, AS and SEA.

seatback · Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:58 pm

Glad to hear! Will AA re-open their SEA crew base?

JoseSalazar · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:00 pm

With the sprint and tmobile merger recently approved (ie DOJ will let megacarriers merge), what is the likelihood this partnership will turn into a merger? I’ve read that would be the litmus test and set a precedent for what the current DOJ will allow. I potentially see a new wave of consolidation kicking off.

Nicknuzzii · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:02 pm

enilria wrote:
BrianDromey wrote:
While this wont make up for the loss of LATAM in South America, it is a good move for AA and AS, against DL.

I'm surprised that a major airline would join an alliance in the current climate - the direction seems to be away from alliances, rather than towards. A great addition for AA, AS and oneworld.

100% agree with all of that. I wonder if B6 will also join OneWorld? The trade off would be knife stab to Delta and potentially getting AA's JFK slots vs. the impact on B6's Europe plans.

How many of AS current code share partners are not OW? I suspect AS will not eliminate any of them, though.

I was thinking this was more of a reason for B6 to join *A...

itripreport · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:02 pm

So, is it safe to assume this is a major F bomb towards Delta and their LATAM partnership.

That aside, I got AA PL and Alaska MVP Gold status, so this may mean I might finally reach upper tear next year, this is amazing news.

Continental767 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:05 pm

So basically AS just went international long haul using AA metal. I must say, I’m impressed. AS and AA appear tired of DL at this point, and now they’re finally doing something about it.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:10 pm

While it may symbolically be a F-bomb toward DL, I don't think the SEA-BLR route is really a big actual threat at the end of the day. DL wasn't carrying uchof this traffic (connecting) anyways, don't have the aircraft to fly such a route, and it outside of their core. The LHR flight, lets see where the slot comes from and see if its a shell-game before jumping to any conclusions.

I do like the out of the box thinking here.

flyfresno · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:10 pm

This may be getting overlooked, but isn't this also making SFO a OneWorld hub too?

enilria · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:11 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I thought it was April Fool's Day for a moment. Wow. Just wow. I literally almost just s**t my pants on the Metro reading this right now.

So many questions:

-Why did AS/AA reverse some of their partnership benefits/FF program devaluation, only to reverse course now? How long has this been in the making?
-What is the future of LAX with this announcement? "Serving India nonstop from LAX is impossible with our current fleet?"
-Is DP still at the controls? Seems to bold for his leadership style.
-What happens to AS's mileage based FF program?

If anything these flights will essentially be "Alaska Airlines International operated by American Airlines".

The REAL QUESTION is what happened with this??? The aviation market now is even less competitive than 2016.

>>>2016: Justice Department Requires Alaska Airlines to Significantly Scale Back Codeshare Agreement with American Airlines in Order to Proceed with Virgin America Acquisition

Settlement Ensures that Alaska Will Have Incentive and Ability to Vigorously Compete with Larger Airlines

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice- ... -agreement

BigGSFO · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:14 pm

Well, like many here, I did not see this coming, especially returning to India out of ...Seattle, pretty much the last city I'd think AA would launch this route from. A good move regardless as AS had to figure out their next strategic move.

usairways85 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:15 pm

What's the SEA-BLR market? International from an outstation like this is one thing, but BLR is a major splash. I have no idea what the market is so maybe it's not that crazy as it sounds

TheZ · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:16 pm

Very, very interesting. Can't wait to see how this progresses.

KLMatSJC · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:16 pm

flyfresno wrote:
This may be getting overlooked, but isn't this also making SFO a OneWorld hub too?

I wonder if AA will now want to move back to T2 to be with AS.

YYZORD · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:16 pm

How will SEA-BLR on AA affect the YVR-DEL route on AC? I'm sure many from SEA connects on that route.

alfa164 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
While it may symbolically be a F-bomb toward DL, I don't think the SEA-BLR route is really a big actual threat at the end of the day. DL wasn't carrying uchof this traffic (connecting) anyways, don't have the aircraft to fly such a route, and it outside of their core. The LHR flight, lets see where the slot comes from and see if its a shell-game before jumping to any conclusions. I do like the out of the box thinking here.

I think DL's aversion to any 787 is coming back to bite them.

Cointrin330 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:17 pm

Nice adds and a nice gut punch at DL.

Cointrin330 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:18 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Nice adds and a nice gut punch at DL. AS is a hometown favorite.

stl07 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:18 pm

Richardgoesto wrote:
I do not get why you are all surprised by BLR. Bangalore is a giant market for corporate travel. It is probably the main destination for this kind of market.
I was meeting a lot of business travel consultants and travel manager last week and they were all agreeing that BLR is the market with the highest demand for business trips in India.

Hindsight is 20/20. There is no way you saw this coming from the carrier who backed down from WN on PIT-STL

Brickell305 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:22 pm

Will AS move back into MIA now?

dstblj52 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm

jfk777 wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Anyone know where this LHR slot is coming from?

AA has a huge amount of Heathrow slots, among the largest after BA. Every time a new AA flights starts this question always comes up, why ? Just accept they have enough slots, AA isn't going to cut back any of their other LHR flights.

You do understand that just about every heathrow slot is used everyday so something in equals something getting cut it's just math

einsteinboricua · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:24 pm

Just got the email from AS, and I'm still in shock. I NEVER expected either of them to happen. At most, AS joining as a oneworld affiliate but not a full member...congrats to both AA and AS. Can't wait to see the developments in SEA.

hohd · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:25 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
WOW!!! AA going to India out of Seattle!?!

Pragmatically, it's an easier ULH route than LAX-BLR being ~1000 sm shorter at 8,078 sm. There's also this certain software company at both ends of that route...

This certain software company has some offices in BLR, but main operations in India is in Hyderabad, not BLR, but still quite a few may fly to BLR and then do a short domestic flight to HYD.

iyerhari · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:31 pm

hohd wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
WOW!!! AA going to India out of Seattle!?!

Pragmatically, it's an easier ULH route than LAX-BLR being ~1000 sm shorter at 8,078 sm. There's also this certain software company at both ends of that route...

This certain software company has some offices in BLR, but main operations in India is in Hyderabad, not BLR, but still quite a few may fly to BLR and then do a short domestic flight to HYD.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news ... 15599.html

It is actually HYD so wonder why they picked BLR vs. HYD.

But nevertheless, picking SEA was a very interesting move. Most folks would have thought it would have been DFW considering the large Indian diaspora. East coast would have been even more tougher considering UA flights from EWR to BOM/DEL, DL JFK to BOM and AI to DEL.

x1234 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:34 pm

I keep forgetting how much India is behind China. I sometimes have to go to Hangzhou which is a ~2 OR ~2.5 hour drive on Chinese freeways with crazy traffic from PVG. This is a similar distance from Hong Kong to Shenzhen for a certain Seattle based firm. PLUS there's high speed rail in China. India needs to develop freeways like the rest of the developing world.

raylee67 · Thu Feb 13, 2020 3:35 pm

Apparently targeting the tech sector. Good and bold move by AA. Delta has been struggling to get the trans-Pac routes up from SEA. AA may have better luck with AS behind it.

What would it do to AS's partnership with non-OW carriers? such as EK, SQ, etc.?

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