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sxf24
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:40 pm

tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
This is a true win-win for both carriers. AA gets bolstered by a strong West Coast network with great feed. AS gets to retain AA as a full earn/burn mileage partner, something that was due to end next month, while also gaining the ability to feed new international flights at SEA that DL doesn’t offer while connecting service to other international flights at LAX that matches or beats what DL offers. Where DL was previously marketing itself as the only true int’l/domestic option for corporate travelers from the PNW, AS can now match or even beat what they offer. And of course, AA gets to draw those same corporate travelers off DL planes while also firmly planting their thumb in DL’s eye for their actions at BOS and MIA. DL’s money-losing operation at SEA just got a whole lot harder to justify.

I think DL is really regretting insisting that AS dump all their partners and only feed/partner with them; it has cost them a ton, and AS hasn’t lost a single bit of market share at SEA in the process, despite DL’s attempts to hurt them.


Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


The ow membership and AA partnership help AS fix a major issue with CA midcons (and some transcons): lack of brand awareness at the east coast station making the flights overly dependent on west coast originating traffic. Balanced flows make a huge number of flights viable (see AA on routes such as ICT-LAX). I would expect to see minimal e-w growth from LAX as AA has most destinations covered. However, this completely changes the dynamic in the Bay Area.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:50 pm

I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).
 
tphuang
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:55 pm

sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
This is a true win-win for both carriers. AA gets bolstered by a strong West Coast network with great feed. AS gets to retain AA as a full earn/burn mileage partner, something that was due to end next month, while also gaining the ability to feed new international flights at SEA that DL doesn’t offer while connecting service to other international flights at LAX that matches or beats what DL offers. Where DL was previously marketing itself as the only true int’l/domestic option for corporate travelers from the PNW, AS can now match or even beat what they offer. And of course, AA gets to draw those same corporate travelers off DL planes while also firmly planting their thumb in DL’s eye for their actions at BOS and MIA. DL’s money-losing operation at SEA just got a whole lot harder to justify.

I think DL is really regretting insisting that AS dump all their partners and only feed/partner with them; it has cost them a ton, and AS hasn’t lost a single bit of market share at SEA in the process, despite DL’s attempts to hurt them.


Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


The ow membership and AA partnership help AS fix a major issue with CA midcons (and some transcons): lack of brand awareness at the east coast station making the flights overly dependent on west coast originating traffic. Balanced flows make a huge number of flights viable (see AA on routes such as ICT-LAX). I would expect to see minimal e-w growth from LAX as AA has most destinations covered. However, this completely changes the dynamic in the Bay Area.

No this deal does not fix it's brand awareness outside of West coast. It allows as to increase it's ff in West coast. But it does strengthen it's presence and profitability in West coast so it can afford to invest in a lot of below system margin midcon and transcons routes from California.

Vx was a bad decision that put it in big 4 crosshairs. This will give them a huge Ally against united at SFO, wn in California and delta in pnw.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:00 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).


Geography is in SEA’s favor for India. SEA is the closest major US city to BLR which has high dollar tech traffic. If the 787-9 could fly SFO-BLR, I expect UA would try. UA knows the capability of their 787s from flying SFO/LAX-SIN. SFO-BLR is the same distance as LAX-SIN, which United tried. Unfortunately the routes to BLR have to deviate around airspace restrictions over the Himalayas and China which adds flight time. I think this attempt is dependent on high dollar tech traffic that doesn’t like stopping in Europe or the Middle East.

AA needs some feed from California to make the route work. BA’s SJC flight misses the connection from BLR. I assume AA will be wanting AS’ feed from SJC for example since AA/AS will offer the only one stop connection from SJC to BLR.
 
sxf24
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:14 pm

tphuang wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


The ow membership and AA partnership help AS fix a major issue with CA midcons (and some transcons): lack of brand awareness at the east coast station making the flights overly dependent on west coast originating traffic. Balanced flows make a huge number of flights viable (see AA on routes such as ICT-LAX). I would expect to see minimal e-w growth from LAX as AA has most destinations covered. However, this completely changes the dynamic in the Bay Area.

No this deal does not fix it's brand awareness outside of West coast. It allows as to increase it's ff in West coast. But it does strengthen it's presence and profitability in West coast so it can afford to invest in a lot of below system margin midcon and transcons routes from California.

Vx was a bad decision that put it in big 4 crosshairs. This will give them a huge Ally against united at SFO, wn in California and delta in pnw.


:confused:

Isn’t one intent of alliance membership and codeshares to improve access in markets where your partner has a strong presence but you don’t?

For example, SFO-BNA on AS is no longer dependent on SFO point of sale. With AA codeshare and/or mileage accrual, it is supported by AA’s customer base and network in BNA, increasing scope of point of sale.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:31 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).


What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:36 pm

Airbus747 wrote:
Could someone please explain to a European (who rarely travels to America) why this news is significant, unexpected... "awesome"?


Alaska is a very well-regarded (good product, good customer service, reliable) airline, but their route network is pretty much limited to the Pacific Northwest from their hubs in Seattle and Portland, along with some intra-West Coast flying and Hawaii, along with a few transcons left over from their acquisition of Virgin America. Conversely, American is strong in the East and Midwest but not as much in the West, and their Phoenix and L.A. hubs are too far south for viable intra-West Coast connections. The 2 airlines had a limited code share relationship that looked like it was about to expire, but instead they are significantly strengthening it and AS is officially full-on joining the oneworld alliance.

This deal mean AS and AA frequent flyers will have access to another airline's very complimentary route network and will be able to earn/use miles and elite status on both airlines. The deal will also turn AS into an even more formidable competitor against Delta, whose efforts to establish a West Coast/Trans-Pacific hub at SEA are not going as well as they had hoped.

The really shocking news is AA starting the SEA-BLR route. No U.S. airline currently serves BLR and its very rare for a U.S. airline to start a point-to-point route like this. U.S. airlines have historically been pretty conservative when it comes to launching new int'l routes, but over the past few years, we have seen extensions into secondary European cities, interior China, and more South Pacific like Papeete and Auckland. It's quite a change (and very exciting!) to get away from the likes of just LHR, NRT, etc.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5017
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:40 pm

American 767 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 feels so isolated now.


Yes, but they have grown so big compared to what they were 20 years ago when they started. JetBlue is now a major player in the United States, with American, Delta, Southwest and United.

JetBlue is smaller than Alaska Airlines. Pretty big but nowhere near the big 4.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:53 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).


What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.


That is true. I just think Alaska can be very much in play (M&A) in the future. I think the value for American to forge an alliance without a stake is there relative to doing nothing at all, but eventually will realize that without an investment in the domestic foundation that makes the international routes viable, it can be precarious; That is, Alaska make find itself merging with anoher carrier leaving American in the cold. Not entirely apples to apples but it was thought American and LATAM was a sure thing, but without an American Airlines stake in LATAM the tryst with Delta never got exposed until too late, that is, if a stake requires disclosure of such talks to shareholders.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:58 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).


What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.


That is true. I just think Alaska can be very much in play (M&A) in the future. I think the value for American to forge an alliance without a stake is there relative to doing nothing at all, but eventually will realize that without an investment in the domestic foundation that makes the international routes viable, it can be precarious; That is, Alaska make find itself merging with anoher carrier leaving American in the cold. Not entirely apples to apples but it was thought American and LATAM was a sure thing, but without an American Airlines stake in LATAM the tryst with Delta never got exposed until too late, that is, if a stake requires disclosure of such talks to shareholders.


AA and LATAM started having difficulties when their JV was rejected twice by the Chilean authorities. In part due to the size of the combined operation between the US and Chile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:19 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:

What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.


That is true. I just think Alaska can be very much in play (M&A) in the future. I think the value for American to forge an alliance without a stake is there relative to doing nothing at all, but eventually will realize that without an investment in the domestic foundation that makes the international routes viable, it can be precarious; That is, Alaska make find itself merging with anoher carrier leaving American in the cold. Not entirely apples to apples but it was thought American and LATAM was a sure thing, but without an American Airlines stake in LATAM the tryst with Delta never got exposed until too late, that is, if a stake requires disclosure of such talks to shareholders.


AA and LATAM started having difficulties when their JV was rejected twice by the Chilean authorities. In part due to the size of the combined operation between the US and Chile.

But I don't think that was a signal for them to expect Delta (or anyone) to swoop in. A stake in LATAM early on would have been a meaningful gesture of American's committment and a potential impediment to what ultimately happened.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:21 pm

HPRamper wrote:
American 767 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
B6 feels so isolated now.


Yes, but they have grown so big compared to what they were 20 years ago when they started. JetBlue is now a major player in the United States, with American, Delta, Southwest and United.

JetBlue is smaller than Alaska Airlines. Pretty big but nowhere near the big 4.



B6 has more mainline aircraft than Alaska. Dump Horizon and then B6 is bigger.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:22 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:

What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.


That is true. I just think Alaska can be very much in play (M&A) in the future. I think the value for American to forge an alliance without a stake is there relative to doing nothing at all, but eventually will realize that without an investment in the domestic foundation that makes the international routes viable, it can be precarious; That is, Alaska make find itself merging with anoher carrier leaving American in the cold. Not entirely apples to apples but it was thought American and LATAM was a sure thing, but without an American Airlines stake in LATAM the tryst with Delta never got exposed until too late, that is, if a stake requires disclosure of such talks to shareholders.


AA and LATAM started having difficulties when their JV was rejected twice by the Chilean authorities. In part due to the size of the combined operation between the US and Chile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But I don't think that was a signal for them to expect Delta (or anyone) to swoop in. A stake in LATAM early on would have been a meaningful gesture of American's committment and a potential impediment to what ultimately happened.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:27 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:

What!? Are you joking? That's exactly what all these airline alliances are meant to do... There's no "long term efficacy" problems with doing this in LHR with BA or NRT/HND with JL or in HKG with CX... why would AS in SEA be any different? This isn't the first time two US airlines have been in the same alliance and fed off each other by any stretch either. This actually makes it more efficient to still get the connecting feed without having to pay for operating the flights.


That is true. I just think Alaska can be very much in play (M&A) in the future. I think the value for American to forge an alliance without a stake is there relative to doing nothing at all, but eventually will realize that without an investment in the domestic foundation that makes the international routes viable, it can be precarious; That is, Alaska make find itself merging with anoher carrier leaving American in the cold. Not entirely apples to apples but it was thought American and LATAM was a sure thing, but without an American Airlines stake in LATAM the tryst with Delta never got exposed until too late, that is, if a stake requires disclosure of such talks to shareholders.


AA and LATAM started having difficulties when their JV was rejected twice by the Chilean authorities. In part due to the size of the combined operation between the US and Chile.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Duplicate.
 
steveinbc
Posts: 315
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:46 pm

Alaska has had a semi-formal relationship with AA and OneWorld for years so this is formalizing it at last.
My single biggest concern for ramping up a hub in SEA is the airport and its facilities. Even the most ardent pacific northwestener must admit that travelling through SEA is generally an unpleasant experience. Connecting internationally at SEA is not straightforward either. I hope the announcement will force SEA to take a hard look at its facilities
A319 320 321 330 340 380 B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 BAe1-11 Trident 1, 2, 3B Viscount Lancaster VC10 HS748, ATP DHC-1, 3 Dash-8 Dash-400 Shorts 330 360 Embraer Banderiante Brasileria 175 190 BAe146 Saab 200 DC-3 -8 -9 -10 MD-11 ATR42-72
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5017
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:48 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
American 767 wrote:

Yes, but they have grown so big compared to what they were 20 years ago when they started. JetBlue is now a major player in the United States, with American, Delta, Southwest and United.

JetBlue is smaller than Alaska Airlines. Pretty big but nowhere near the big 4.



B6 has more mainline aircraft than Alaska. Dump Horizon and then B6 is bigger.

For your convenience? Horizon is a part of AS. AS has more aircraft, flies to more destinations, has more employees, and carries more passengers. There's a word for that - bigger. It's not a matter of opinion.
 
SEU
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:55 pm

Glad to see AA playing some games as well...this is a 100% a LATAM response
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:12 pm

HPRamper wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
JetBlue is smaller than Alaska Airlines. Pretty big but nowhere near the big 4.



B6 has more mainline aircraft than Alaska. Dump Horizon and then B6 is bigger.

For your convenience? Horizon is a part of AS. AS has more aircraft, flies to more destinations, has more employees, and carries more passengers. There's a word for that - bigger. It's not a matter of opinion.



Skywest has more aircraft than all of Alaska then by your logic.

No one cares about regionals when talking major airlines.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:14 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
You have to figure the never-started Delta focus cities in AUS and SJC are about dead now before Delta even did anything there.
AA frequent fliers and corporate customers in AUS just gained nonstops to: PDX, SEA, SAN, and SFO.

In SJC, their fliers gained nonstops to: BOI, PAE, GDL, HNL, KOA, OGG, LIH, EWR, PDX, PVR, RNO, SAN, SJD, and SEA. And already had access to LHR via BA to say nothing of the current AA routes and latest adds.
hard to see any new delta focus city coming close to matching that combined scale.


The war at SEA between AS and DL likely means SJC is hosed on both ends. Doubtful we will see much more build up at SJC by AS, as they will put more resources into SEA, as is likely for DL. Unless DL decides to farm SJC instead of building up SEA, I’d bet all resources at AS, DL, and even AA will be going into SEA.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:30 pm

superjeff wrote:
This is a "win-win". American needs Alaska's strength on the West Coast (and, arguably, to Hawaii), and Alaska needs American's in the rest of the country. This will keep Alaska's frequent flyers happy by giving them more options, and American's by also doing the same thing. That simple.


Does AA/AS OW deal include US domestic sharing of FF benefits/miles?
 
sand26391
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:30 pm

 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:33 pm

Dallas Love Field has just become a real option for Dallas area AA frequent flyers heading out West with Alaska.

Bet those flights are going to be full!
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
sand26391
Posts: 644
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:37 pm

TOP US UNSERVED ROUTES OF BLR IN FY 2017-18 (cannot post latest data unfortunately, hope this gives some idea though.. and help further discussions)

1) SFO- 57,836
2) JFK- 37,827
3) ORD- 22,796
4) DFW- 19,665
5) LAX- 15,846

To note:- DIRECTIONAL Numbers (One way passenger numbers)
 
Atlwarrior
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:42 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:39 pm

It’s seems like this is a wonderful idea and the best plan without a merge. However, let us not forget the pilot union of Alaska Airlines. They surely will not be happy if American plans to bring in or takeover some domestic flying. When is the next contract approval up for Alaska Airlines?
 
YYZORD
Posts: 493
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:26 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:49 pm

What are the chances of QR adding DOH-SEA thanks to AS joining OneWorld?
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:53 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I am sure eventually American will question the long-term efficacy of investing in a Seattle gateway heavily reliant on connecting traffic of another carrier to which it doesn't have any skin in the game (investment).


Geography is in SEA’s favor for India. SEA is the closest major US city to BLR which has high dollar tech traffic. If the 787-9 could fly SFO-BLR, I expect UA would try. UA knows the capability of their 787s from flying SFO/LAX-SIN. SFO-BLR is the same distance as LAX-SIN, which United tried. Unfortunately the routes to BLR have to deviate around airspace restrictions over the Himalayas and China which adds flight time. I think this attempt is dependent on high dollar tech traffic that doesn’t like stopping in Europe or the Middle East.

AA needs some feed from California to make the route work. BA’s SJC flight misses the connection from BLR. I assume AA will be wanting AS’ feed from SJC for example since AA/AS will offer the only one stop connection from SJC to BLR.


Wouldn’t it make sense for AA to fly to multiple cities in India non stop, and make SEA a one-stop gateway from the entire continental US to India through SEA? Even if AA flew some of those non stops less than daily, they could cover all the major US-India markets through SEA.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1990
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:05 pm

Vasu is a rising star and beloved by the employees. It refreshing to have someone who knows what they are doing and not afraid to take on other airlines. It’s just simply amazing the amount of Delta fanboys. Lots of biased posters on here. I think Vasu is a lot smarter than posters on a message board who aren’t airline executives.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3579
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:23 pm

HPRamper wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
HPRamper wrote:
JetBlue is smaller than Alaska Airlines. Pretty big but nowhere near the big 4.



B6 has more mainline aircraft than Alaska. Dump Horizon and then B6 is bigger.

For your convenience? Horizon is a part of AS. AS has more aircraft, flies to more destinations, has more employees, and carries more passengers. There's a word for that - bigger. It's not a matter of opinion.



For your convenience based on 2019 DOT figures:
Alaska 46,733,000 pass with 335 aircraft or 139,501 pass/plane/year. with 65 planes on order (32 not currently deliverable)

jetBlue 42, 727,694 pass with 259 aircraft or 164971 pass/plane/year. with 149 planes on order (60 are for replacements)

When jetBlue hits 335 planes they could be carrying close to 55265490 passenger.

So I'd Say jetBlue is better positioned for growth & better long term profits.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3579
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:25 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
B6 has 259 mainline planes
AS has 237.


Does that includeB6’s E190s as mainline?

(;


Yes and 100 seats means B6 operates them as mainline, not regional/commuter.
 
panamair
Posts: 4280
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:33 pm

UALFAson wrote:
The deal will also turn AS into an even more formidable competitor against Delta, whose efforts to establish a West Coast/Trans-Pacific hub at SEA are not going as well as they had hoped..


Do you have any facts and figures to prove that this is true or are you just repeating a.net heresay? Do you know what they had hoped or expected? Sure they dropped HKG and some smaller destinations here and there, but this summer Delta will be at over 170 flights a day at SEA, the highest it’s ever been since they started building up SEA. There have been consistent mainline upgauges on many domestic routes etc., I am not saying that SEA is performing in the same league as ATL for DL, but it is also not a lost cause as some on here would like us to believe.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:33 pm

So what is being said is Alaska has more 3 class “jet” aircraft than JetBlue and also operates some single class turboprops under Alaska Air Group too.

Not counting the SkyWest aircraft operated in Alaska’s colours.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:43 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Vasu is a rising star and beloved by the employees. It refreshing to have someone who knows what they are doing and not afraid to take on other airlines. It’s just simply amazing the amount of Delta fanboys. Lots of biased posters on here. I think Vasu is a lot smarter than posters on a message board who aren’t airline executives.


Not necessarily. He’s not well-liked at any of the bases where he has cut back flying, and/or failed with so many routes like ORD-DEL, ORD-DME, etc. Not everyone is a Kool-Aid drinker, and most see him as part of the overall Parker mess even though he came from L-AA.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:24 pm

sand26391 wrote:


Interesting chart. I believe only SEA and BOS are within the range for the 787-9. New York is a stretch. It’s possible but at the edge of viability with either the 787-9 or 777-300ER due to potential weight restrictions
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5192
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:28 pm

panamair wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
The deal will also turn AS into an even more formidable competitor against Delta, whose efforts to establish a West Coast/Trans-Pacific hub at SEA are not going as well as they had hoped..


Do you have any facts and figures to prove that this is true or are you just repeating a.net heresay? Do you know what they had hoped or expected? Sure they dropped HKG and some smaller destinations here and there, but this summer Delta will be at over 170 flights a day at SEA, the highest it’s ever been since they started building up SEA. There have been consistent mainline upgauges on many domestic routes etc., I am not saying that SEA is performing in the same league as ATL for DL, but it is also not a lost cause as some on here would like us to believe.


You can't compare DL's SEA hub with any other of DL's fortress hubs because DL's other fortress hubs have orders-of-magnitude higher volume of flights than SEA. AS is larger because they have a significantly more gate space than DL. DL can't grow too much more because of the limited gate space in SEA. I don't think some people understand the finite constraints of SEA.

I'm curious to see how AA does here with BLR and LHR. Today, AA only has gates at the end of D-concourse, and I don't think any of them are widebody gates. I have seen AA use one or two gates in the S-Concourse, especially early in the morning.
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 pm

AA and AS are currently co-located at SFO in T2. It was my understanding that AA was going to move to the new portion of T1. I wonder if AA and AS will remain in T2 or co-locate in T1.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:42 pm

tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
This is a true win-win for both carriers. AA gets bolstered by a strong West Coast network with great feed. AS gets to retain AA as a full earn/burn mileage partner, something that was due to end next month, while also gaining the ability to feed new international flights at SEA that DL doesn’t offer while connecting service to other international flights at LAX that matches or beats what DL offers. Where DL was previously marketing itself as the only true int’l/domestic option for corporate travelers from the PNW, AS can now match or even beat what they offer. And of course, AA gets to draw those same corporate travelers off DL planes while also firmly planting their thumb in DL’s eye for their actions at BOS and MIA. DL’s money-losing operation at SEA just got a whole lot harder to justify.

I think DL is really regretting insisting that AS dump all their partners and only feed/partner with them; it has cost them a ton, and AS hasn’t lost a single bit of market share at SEA in the process, despite DL’s attempts to hurt them.


Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


Great post, tphuang...my sentiments exactly. I wonder what DL will do to retaliate..or if they even can. They have their hands full in MIA and BOS.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2408
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:52 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
This is a true win-win for both carriers. AA gets bolstered by a strong West Coast network with great feed. AS gets to retain AA as a full earn/burn mileage partner, something that was due to end next month, while also gaining the ability to feed new international flights at SEA that DL doesn’t offer while connecting service to other international flights at LAX that matches or beats what DL offers. Where DL was previously marketing itself as the only true int’l/domestic option for corporate travelers from the PNW, AS can now match or even beat what they offer. And of course, AA gets to draw those same corporate travelers off DL planes while also firmly planting their thumb in DL’s eye for their actions at BOS and MIA. DL’s money-losing operation at SEA just got a whole lot harder to justify.

I think DL is really regretting insisting that AS dump all their partners and only feed/partner with them; it has cost them a ton, and AS hasn’t lost a single bit of market share at SEA in the process, despite DL’s attempts to hurt them.


Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


No, UA is the biggest loser.
Because AA+AS and DL can now supply corp contracts with flights to tech and financial centers over SEA instead of SFO. Not to mention SEA - Asia is shorter than SFO - Asia. I can see Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. all flock to AA/AS or DL instead of UA.
Add to this the horrible presence of UA at the East Coast (EWR = junk, IAD = useless), UA is screwed. Unless they come up quickly with a master stroke.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:57 pm

AirFiero wrote:
The war at SEA between AS and DL likely means SJC is hosed on both ends. Doubtful we will see much more build up at SJC by AS, as they will put more resources into SEA, as is likely for DL. Unless DL decides to farm SJC instead of building up SEA, I’d bet all resources at AS, DL, and even AA will be going into SEA.


Remember that years back AA made a go at a SJC focus city or whatever they called it back then. It's definitely an AS focus city today...and if AA decides to bring back some love to SJC it could be a big OW operation between the two.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:03 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
tphuang wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
This is a true win-win for both carriers. AA gets bolstered by a strong West Coast network with great feed. AS gets to retain AA as a full earn/burn mileage partner, something that was due to end next month, while also gaining the ability to feed new international flights at SEA that DL doesn’t offer while connecting service to other international flights at LAX that matches or beats what DL offers. Where DL was previously marketing itself as the only true int’l/domestic option for corporate travelers from the PNW, AS can now match or even beat what they offer. And of course, AA gets to draw those same corporate travelers off DL planes while also firmly planting their thumb in DL’s eye for their actions at BOS and MIA. DL’s money-losing operation at SEA just got a whole lot harder to justify.

I think DL is really regretting insisting that AS dump all their partners and only feed/partner with them; it has cost them a ton, and AS hasn’t lost a single bit of market share at SEA in the process, despite DL’s attempts to hurt them.


Of course this is a win-win for both carrier from AS perspective. We will see about AA in a few years. DL made a huge tactical error in picking war with AA here. And AA in its anger decided to take a move that's clearly beneficial in short term, but is grooming a dangerous competitor in the long term.

Would you deny that AS at some point in near future will start expanding in California again on midcon and transcon market. That all this current north south + SEA flights is just a temporary situation while DL remains a threat in PNW? Long term, it's in AA's interest to cede west coast to AS? I'm sure AS would love that. But is that best for AA long term?

Sure, AA can try to merge with AS, but it's stock prices is rock bottom. It would be a huge risk to buy AS at their current market cap. and unless AA can really turn things around, it would be hard for it to buy AS.

Oh and don't underestimate DL's willingness to continue to lose money at SEA. DL management has shown no shortage of confidence or belief that they can somehow turn hopeless situation around and DL supporters on this forum will continue to defend all their actions.

so
big winner AS
small winner AA
small loser UA/B6/WN
big loser DL


Great post, tphuang...my sentiments exactly. I wonder what DL will do to retaliate..or if they even can. They have their hands full in MIA and BOS.



Retaliation will be interesting since American will not be allocating much resources to the alliance, their assets won't be preoccupied so whatever Delta brings can be met head-on. My guess will be some key adds domestically in Seattle, and some international routes with the new IAF. But I won't rule out a Miami-S.A. answer (including on Delta metal) or a new partnership with another airline (non-U.S.).
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:07 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
No, UA is the biggest loser.
Because AA+AS and DL can now supply corp contracts with flights to tech and financial centers over SEA instead of SFO. Not to mention SEA - Asia is shorter than SFO - Asia. I can see Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. all flock to AA/AS or DL instead of UA.
Add to this the horrible presence of UA at the East Coast (EWR = junk), UA is screwed. Unless they come up quickly with a master stroke.


This post is so laughable I almost didn't bother responding to it.

UA has a HUGE ff base in the Bay Area and the tech companies. Why are they suddenly going to abandon UA and nonstop SIN and TLV and soon-to-be DUB flights to make a 2- or 3-stop connection to those cities via AA or DL? Not to mention all the U.S. cities that are a 1-stop flight away from SFO the same as SEA?

And say what you will about EWR as an airport and delays, but UA's hub there is simply unmatched by any other carrier at any other NYC-area airport, with UA and *A partners soon to offer service to all 5 continents/regions, including extensive East Asia nonstop service (at least prior to the coronavirus) not offered by AA or DL.

I don't know what UA did to you to tick you off, but before you make ridiculous posts like this on here, you should really check your bias.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
UALFAson
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:41 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:16 pm

panamair wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
The deal will also turn AS into an even more formidable competitor against Delta, whose efforts to establish a West Coast/Trans-Pacific hub at SEA are not going as well as they had hoped..


Do you have any facts and figures to prove that this is true or are you just repeating a.net heresay? Do you know what they had hoped or expected? Sure they dropped HKG and some smaller destinations here and there, but this summer Delta will be at over 170 flights a day at SEA, the highest it’s ever been since they started building up SEA. There have been consistent mainline upgauges on many domestic routes etc., I am not saying that SEA is performing in the same league as ATL for DL, but it is also not a lost cause as some on here would like us to believe.


I knew someone was going to pick up on this line, even though I tried to state it as objectively as possible.

Yes, there are facts and figures that back up my statement. tphuang has posted on this site (though not this thread) extensive government data showing DL failing to eat significantly into AS's market share at SEA (most of their growth seems to have come at the expense of UA and AA) and yields that are often lower than AS's with the exception of flights to DL's hubs.

You and other DL fanboys can dismiss dropped service to a place like HKG as no big deal, which I'm not going to comment on, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the significance of that.

Nowhere did I say that SEA was a "lost cause" for DL--those are your words, not mine. I live in Nashville, am indifferent toward DL, and couldn't care less who triumphs in the Battle for Seattle. But my initial statement is correct and no one who follows this industry objectively would seriously disagree with what I wrote.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
tphuang
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:27 pm

If DL wants to retaliate, it can add DFW-BOS/SEA, LAX-CLT/ORD. I don't know if there is an obvious partner they can get at the moment which would help them significantly.

SJC will not be forgotten here. I think with this partnership, AA/AS will do some methodical growth in Bay Area and it won't be all at SFO. AA has already added SJC-AUS. So it clearly is interested in the tech money. AA/AS partnering up is bad news to the 2 strongest carriers in California: UA and WN.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:38 pm

DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)
 
panamair
Posts: 4280
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:48 pm

UALFAson wrote:
But my initial statement is correct and no one who follows this industry objectively would seriously disagree with what I wrote.


Actually, no, your initial statement was that SEA hasn’t turned out as Delta “had hoped”. You don’t have any clue as to what Delta has hoped or has planned as part of their SEA growth plan at this stage. You have no idea what they had hoped would be achieved by now or last year or in the next two years. You have no idea what margins or unit revenue or other metrics they have targeted for this stage of their growth in SEA. So how can you say that it hasn’t turned out as they had hoped?

You can quote tphuang’s revenue metrics till the cows come home but you don’t know whether those metrics are at, below or above Delta’s expectations or plan at various points in time. They may be making a loss in Market A but that could still be a lot better than what they had planned for Market A at this point in time.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:51 pm

Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:57 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.


Hawaiian that is a good point.

Would SkyTeam or Star Alliance be the better Alliance to join? What is the “fee” does to join an alliance? I am sure the MAIN sponsoring airline is getting some sort of compensation. Anyone have any information on this part of the equation.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.


Hawaiian that is a good point.

Would SkyTeam or Star Alliance be the better Alliance to join? What is the “fee” does to join an alliance? I am sure the MAIN sponsoring airline is getting some sort of compensation. Anyone have any information on this part of the equation.


Not sure about your inquiry on fees, but Delta's condition wouldn't necessarily be to join SkyTeam since Bastian has been vocal on Delta's investment strategy. And with United already at Guam, I think an easier approval is with Delta (especially since they cut back on Hawaii-Asia already.)
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2408
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
No, UA is the biggest loser.
Because AA+AS and DL can now supply corp contracts with flights to tech and financial centers over SEA instead of SFO. Not to mention SEA - Asia is shorter than SFO - Asia. I can see Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. all flock to AA/AS or DL instead of UA.
Add to this the horrible presence of UA at the East Coast (EWR = junk), UA is screwed. Unless they come up quickly with a master stroke.


This post is so laughable I almost didn't bother responding to it.

UA has a HUGE ff base in the Bay Area and the tech companies. Why are they suddenly going to abandon UA and nonstop SIN and TLV and soon-to-be DUB flights to make a 2- or 3-stop connection to those cities via AA or DL? Not to mention all the U.S. cities that are a 1-stop flight away from SFO the same as SEA?

And say what you will about EWR as an airport and delays, but UA's hub there is simply unmatched by any other carrier at any other NYC-area airport, with UA and *A partners soon to offer service to all 5 continents/regions, including extensive East Asia nonstop service (at least prior to the coronavirus) not offered by AA or DL.

I don't know what UA did to you to tick you off, but before you make ridiculous posts like this on here, you should really check your bias.


"UALFAson"... look in the mirror if you talk about bias. :roll:
To call EWR a "third world airport" would be an insult to 3rd world airports.

The financial boys want to fly to/from LGA. Where's UA?
The government boys want to fly/from DCA. Not slep to IAD. Where's UA?

No...time for UA to admit its snoozefest and take a hard look at B6.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:10 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.


Hawaiian that is a good point.

Would SkyTeam or Star Alliance be the better Alliance to join? What is the “fee” does to join an alliance? I am sure the MAIN sponsoring airline is getting some sort of compensation. Anyone have any information on this part of the equation.


Not sure about your inquiry on fees, but Delta's condition wouldn't necessarily be to join SkyTeam since Bastian has been vocal on Delta's investment strategy. And with United already at Guam, I think an easier approval is with Delta (especially since they cut back on Hawaii-Asia already.)


I think I read somewhere, Alaska had to pay a fee to Richard Branson aka the Virgin Brand until all the Virgin America aircraft were rebranded Alaska.

So naturally I am assuming there are $$$ involved
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2200
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:11 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.



QR can't match EK as a partner. It's a distant second.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..

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