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Airbus747
Posts: 165
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:06 pm

gunsontheroof wrote:
Airbus747 wrote:
Could someone please explain to a European (who rarely travels to America) why this news is significant, unexpected... "awesome"?


In brief, because SEA is already playing host to two hubs with AS/DL (which is already surprising for a mid-sized market) and AA has been an afterthought in the SEA market for as long as I can remember. Having them re-enter the international market from SEA, particularly for a destination like BLR is not something any of us saw coming. For that matter, AS has been extremely reluctant to align with any of the major airline alliances since they emerged in the late 1990s, preferring to arrange partnerships/codeshares independently. Seeing them finally take the plunge is a surprise, though if I'd had to guess where they'd land, it would have been Oneworld. I'm sure other more knowledgeable members can expound on this, that's just my quick take as to why this is a bit of a shocker, particularly if you live in the SEA market.


Great, thank you. Very clear and makes sense!
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:06 pm

Its funny that the unions at WN all but force WN into nothing but total mergers. No half baked plans for them.
 
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Airbus747
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:08 pm

UALFAson wrote:
Airbus747 wrote:
Could someone please explain to a European (who rarely travels to America) why this news is significant, unexpected... "awesome"?


Alaska is a very well-regarded (good product, good customer service, reliable) airline, but their route network is pretty much limited to the Pacific Northwest from their hubs in Seattle and Portland, along with some intra-West Coast flying and Hawaii, along with a few transcons left over from their acquisition of Virgin America. Conversely, American is strong in the East and Midwest but not as much in the West, and their Phoenix and L.A. hubs are too far south for viable intra-West Coast connections. The 2 airlines had a limited code share relationship that looked like it was about to expire, but instead they are significantly strengthening it and AS is officially full-on joining the oneworld alliance.

This deal mean AS and AA frequent flyers will have access to another airline's very complimentary route network and will be able to earn/use miles and elite status on both airlines. The deal will also turn AS into an even more formidable competitor against Delta, whose efforts to establish a West Coast/Trans-Pacific hub at SEA are not going as well as they had hoped.

The really shocking news is AA starting the SEA-BLR route. No U.S. airline currently serves BLR and its very rare for a U.S. airline to start a point-to-point route like this. U.S. airlines have historically been pretty conservative when it comes to launching new int'l routes, but over the past few years, we have seen extensions into secondary European cities, interior China, and more South Pacific like Papeete and Auckland. It's quite a change (and very exciting!) to get away from the likes of just LHR, NRT, etc.



Thank you for the detailed explanation. All clear and makes sense!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 502
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:17 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/08/11/why-southwest-airlines-is-warming-to-codeshare-and.html

Interesting article from 2016. And why I think Southwest could eventually get in on new developments.

And yet this is how that article ends
“ A Southwest spokesman said of Watterson's memo and its reason for being: "Nothing has changed with interline/codeshare. The memo you reference is part of a series of internal, educational communications covering a variety of industry-related topics."

Last year, Southwest management found itself in a standoff with Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association after the group discovered that the airline was quietly trying to orchestrate a passenger reaccommodation agreement with JetBlue (NASDAQ: JBLU) despite the absence of provisions for such a deal in Southwest's contract with pilots. A deal with JetBlue was scrapped in the wake of the pilot protest.”


I saw that. I never suggested nor intended for that article to directly correlate to industry developments today, only that the seed has been planted. All alliances and agreement go through an approval process, so not sure how your references show a definitive impediment to a mutually beneficial future deal.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:26 pm

N776AU wrote:
Image


I wonder if we will ever see OneWorld upon one of the 33 fleet strong QX Dash 8 Q400’s. If we do, I think it would be the first time the OneWorld livery will have flown upon the side of a non-turbofan aircraft?

Can anyone verify this?
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
sxf24
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:44 pm

grbauc wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
axiom wrote:

Make that three of us. What changed?

Presidential administrations, for one.


AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.


AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.
 
BigGSFO
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:16 pm

SEAflyer97 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:22 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.


It's possible. But from an overseas connection, I don't anyone is going to fly from JFK to SEA to get to LHR and BLR. You never know.
 
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chepos
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:27 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.


Or AA may be happy letting AS operate JFK-SEA and serving it via a codeshare. They would have to cut some of LAX/SFO to fund SEA as a 321T flight or they convert some CEO’s into T’s (which I doubt).


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chepos
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AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:28 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.


It's possible. But from an overseas connection, I don't anyone is going to fly from JFK to SEA to get to LHR and BLR. You never know.


AA will be more than happy to let you go JFK-LHR-BLR on BA, nobody is expecting people to fly JFK-SEA-BLR.


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Last edited by chepos on Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
SocalApproach
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:37 pm

sxf24 wrote:
grbauc wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Presidential administrations, for one.


AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.


AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.



AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.
Last edited by SocalApproach on Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:45 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.


AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.



AS had plans. It didn't work. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.


I agree that AS had plans for some nationalizing themselves, but it was pretty weak...the DAL experience. And I did find it pretty interesting that they are partnering with the worst airline in the nation (based on the Wall Street Journal pole). But based on Alaska's earnings, I hardly doubt DL is eating AS for dinner. For one, DL doesn't have the same level of service as AS. Unfortunately for DL, there very limited on gate space to expand much more than increasing aircraft size...for now.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:54 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.


Absolutely not. These are a terrible fit for JFKSEA with an F cabin. There is zero market and those F seats would go out empty, just like they did on the failed attempt to use the plane on BOSLAX. A better fit would be the 757s with 16 lie flat seats.
a.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5061
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:56 pm

BigGSFO wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK

Yes, they did, but under this new alliance, it stands to reason SEA-JFK will return. And if they are going after the higher yielding crowd, then those premium heavy planes could probably be a good fit.

Not at their cost level. That's the problem with aa. Their cost is way higher than as. So if they are on the same route and get same fares, they are better off letting as operate the flights. A321t doesn't work in markets outside of lax and sfo.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:04 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
But based on Alaska's earnings, I hardly doubt DL is eating AS for dinner.

Every airline is making money. If AS didnt feel threatened in SEA they wouldn't be doing this move. DL has so much more to offer for someone who lives in SEA and wants to redeem miles.


wedgetail737 wrote:
For one, DL doesn't have the same level of service as AS.


I am not sure what you mean. Lets just keep it domestic since AS does not offer long haul. In terms of Business Class and Economy Class on DL and AS. I have flown both and the hard product on DL is superior. I dont care for cheese plates though so maybe other folks views may differ.


wedgetail737 wrote:
Unfortunately for DL, there very limited on gate space to expand much more than increasing aircraft size...for now.

Delta can elect to bus passengers out to hardstands just like AS if they chose. The airport is maxed out and both airlines are limited on gate space. I wouldn't necessarily say AS has any advantage here. Their N concourse looks like it wont be completed for at least another year.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:19 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
But based on Alaska's earnings, I hardly doubt DL is eating AS for dinner.

Every airline is making money. If AS didnt feel threatened in SEA they wouldn't be doing this move. DL has so much more to offer for someone who lives in SEA and wants to redeem miles.


wedgetail737 wrote:
For one, DL doesn't have the same level of service as AS.


I am not sure what you mean. Lets just keep it domestic since AS does not offer long haul. In terms of Business Class and Economy Class on DL and AS. I have flown both and the hard product on DL is superior. I dont care for cheese plates though so maybe other folks views may differ.

I tried DL's 1st class RT SEA-SJC and it was bad...but that was just the food thing. I didn't get any of the food that was offered prior to the flight...not even close. But one thing I will give DL is their people. The flight attendants did the best they could under the circumstances. The A220-100's were pretty nice too.

wedgetail737 wrote:
Unfortunately for DL, there very limited on gate space to expand much more than increasing aircraft size...for now.

Delta can elect to bus passengers out to hardstands just like AS if they chose. The airport is maxed out and both airlines are limited on gate space. I wouldn't necessarily say AS has any advantage here. Their N concourse looks like it wont be completed for at least another year.


Even with all of the construction at the N-concourse, AS still has far more flights than DL. Even for hardstands, there's not that much space left. AS is also using some gates at B and S concourses.
 
BA
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:24 pm

AS does plenty of hard stand operations now. Even when the North Satellite renovation completes next year, they will still be doing hard stand operations, especially if they continue to grow.

There just aren't enough gates in SEA during peak times of the day.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
sxf24
Posts: 993
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:22 pm

Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:32 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.


AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.



AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


AS tried and cut some routes from California. I don’t think that is indicative of a national strategy they never laid out to investors or a failed VX acquisition.

Further, DL never wanted AS in Skyteam. They demanded AS drop all partnerships with airlines not affiliated with DL, such as BA and EK, and partner exclusively with DL. Since BA and EK make AS more money than DL ever did, that would not have been a good move.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:47 pm

CV880 wrote:
DL should make SJC a competing hub & align w HA as well. DL&NW as separate entities ground handled HA @ SFO for over 20yrs & also does maintenace on their A330's. Use HA for Hawaii & South Pacific from SJC & SFO & reinstate some of AA's abandoned TPAC routes from SJC. Getting to SFO from the South Bay is a PITA & SJC is fog free.


“From your mouth to god’s ears”, as the old saying goes. I would love to see someone hub up SJC. I was hoping it would be AS or AA (both unlikely), since I’m currently an AADVANTAGE member. If DL did a major expansion, I’d probably have to switch FF programs. But realistically, I don’t see any of the big 3 or AS hubbing at SJC. First of all, SJC doesn’t have that many gates available for a sizable expansion. WN ate up all the new gates, and will likely need them when the Max debacle finally ends. SJC only has 4 international gates, and I believe they can only accommodate 3 international widebodies simultaneously with the 4th international capable gate being narrow body (think Mexico flights). A fourth widebody is domestic only, the former gate A15 (don’t know what the number is now).

The other issue is the industry trend away from hubs and to point-to-point flying. I thought AS could make SJC a nice little geographical hub, with regionals coming from places like SBP, SBA, etc and connecting to SEA, PDX, STS, etc plus Hawaii and Mexico. But AS has been adding routes from those cities direct to SEA and SAN.

AA has already “need there, done that” at SJC and now has LAX *and* a build up at SEA, so rule them out as well.

DL is building SEA already. So unless they cry uncle at SEA, and are looking for new ground to plow, I doubt DL would hub SJC. They haven’t even done anything with their “SJC focus city” thing. In addition to SEA, they have a sizable presence at LAX and aren’t they doing some kind of semi-hub at LAS?

Very nice thoughts on your part, but I don’t see any airline doing it.
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:50 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
Are the BLR and LHR flights going to arrive at S and be towed over to D?


No, there are no widebody capable gates on Concourse D.

The only widebody gates at SEA are on Concourse A and the South Satellite.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:00 pm

sand26391 wrote:
I am actually curious..... what could be the timings of this BLR-SEA flight at SEA... for easier connections at SEA.

Probably an early morning departure (between 2-4 AM) from BLR for a morning arrival into SEA (6-8 AM) to offer connections to the morning domestic departures.
 
SocalApproach
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:00 pm

sxf24 wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.



AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


AS tried and cut some routes from California. I don’t think that is indicative of a national strategy they never laid out to investors or a failed VX acquisition.

Further, DL never wanted AS in Skyteam. They demanded AS drop all partnerships with airlines not affiliated with DL, such as BA and EK, and partner exclusively with DL. Since BA and EK make AS more money than DL ever did, that would not have been a good move.


I’ve heard plenty of reasons on what went wrong with DL and requesting AS to stop partnering with EK and BA sounds in line with what I believe however it omits that AS was collecting profits from DL to carry passengers through ATL and on to LHR but also selling tickets through ATL to collect money with BA. Makes sense DL was not happy with that because BA is a direct competitor in ATL with DL on that route. It would be no different if DL was selling Tickets to ANC via SEA on B6 at the time
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:06 pm

sxf24 wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

AS never had plans of being a national carrier. They were always focused on West Coast originating traffic.



AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


AS tried and cut some routes from California. I don’t think that is indicative of a national strategy they never laid out to investors or a failed VX acquisition.

Further, DL never wanted AS in Skyteam. They demanded AS drop all partnerships with airlines not affiliated with DL, such as BA and EK, and partner exclusively with DL. Since BA and EK make AS more money than DL ever did, that would not have been a good move.


Indeed. Either way, AS has ended up with way better partners, most of them with hubs in more relevant business markets. QF vs VA, CX vs MU, JL vs KE and BA/IB/FY vs VX/AF/KL. In retrospect, they would have been able to retain LA as a partner, but AA provides plenty of options for AS FFs to burn to Latin America, including Mexico.

Moreover, a membership in oneworld will allow it to keep any number of external codeshares and FF partnerships which would not have been possible with DL or SkyTeam. The only partner AS is bound to lose is SQ - that too, not because of oneworld, but because Star Alliance will probably not allow SQ to codeshare with another alliance member, especially when UA operates pretty much all the routes that they codeshare with AS on.
 
tiptoe42
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:27 am

Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:09 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.


AS never had plans of being a nationalAS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


Great Post, so totally true. All management wants at Alaska is to defend Seattle, and keep shareholders happy. They have no vision for the future, the virgin acquisition was nothing more than a defense knee jerk to keep JetBlue out of their playground. For crying out loud they are celebrating at headquarters claiming Alaska has “gone global”, what a joke. This may well be good for Alaska passengers as it may open up an actual route network, and those working here for the flight benefits may like it, but if you’re an Alaska employee hoping to see your company grow for real, then you can forget it.
Last edited by tiptoe42 on Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5192
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:25 pm

I don't think AA will build up their own metal at SEA beyond what they have now. All the connections will be with AS (I think). I can also see AA using hardstands for their international flights...they do that at LAX. But that's probably because they have to.

I'm really interested in seeing how all of this pans out.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:30 pm

Does AS have access to the AA/BA joint venture through this, or dies that wait until AS's full membership in One World?
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:41 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Does AS have access to the AA/BA joint venture through this, or dies that wait until AS's full membership in One World?

Don't forget that AS and BA are already partners. So, they don't need the Oneworld Alliance for that.
 
jplatts
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:46 pm

I had mentioned AA or JL adding SEA-HND and SEA-KIX nonstop service as a possibility in order to better compete against DL in SEA and further strengthen oneworld's position in the SEA market, and that post can be found at https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1438009&start=50#p22023577.
 
speedbird52
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:00 pm

BA wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
Are the BLR and LHR flights going to arrive at S and be towed over to D?


No, there are no widebody capable gates on Concourse D.

The only widebody gates at SEA are on Concourse A and the South Satellite.

We used to have some at N and B I believe but they got turned into multiple narrowbody
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:25 pm

One world has a pretty big presence at JFK. I think at least one A321 Transcon config would make sense for AA on jfk-sea. There will be connections both directions it looks like coming soon. AA serves both cities shouldn't be too big a deal if they have slack in the fleet.

Onky thought SFO might take priority to boost that route even more now too. route will be even more relevant soon too.
 
mpdpilot
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:33 pm

grbauc wrote:
mpdpilot wrote:
enilria wrote:



competitive and Smart.... lol It's not a JV its Just like NW and DL were years ago


Except that it seems like AA and AS are coordinating their schedules at SEA. I used the term JV because their isn't a term for it when two US carriers do it, other than collusion.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
klkla
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:08 pm

It's really amusing that AA is creating an international gateway in Seattle that relies on Alaska for domestic feed. That's exactly how Delta got started in Seattle and we all know how that worked out.

I'm curious if Alaska is guaranteeing AA a certain amount of feed. They wouldn't do that with Delta which is what forced their hand and they had to add their own flights in order to feed their international flights.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:25 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


Quoting Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, "Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong." Particularly about what happened with the DL relationship.

You've already said there's nothing anyone can say to change your mind, so I guess I won't bother trying. But remember this post down the line; that's all I'll say.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
questions
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:57 pm

WN HQ is an absolute cluster. I doubt DL wants anything to do with WN.

DL’s challenge now is not US flow to feed its Asia Pacific network. It is its Asia Pacific network that is the problem.

AA’s challenge was the opposite. Poor western US flow. AA/AS is less about SEA, which is making everyone on here hard, and more about western US to Asia Pacific.

DL was not surprised by AA/AS’s move. The move was an identified risk for a while, no doubt. If DL’s strategy calls out Asia Pacific growth, they will need to start executing on the strategic tactics sooner rather than later. If Asia Pacific is not a strategic play, don’t expect much from Delta related to AA/AS’s move.
 
superjeff
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm

AirFiero wrote:
superjeff wrote:
This is a "win-win". American needs Alaska's strength on the West Coast (and, arguably, to Hawaii), and Alaska needs American's in the rest of the country. This will keep Alaska's frequent flyers happy by giving them more options, and American's by also doing the same thing. That simple.


Does AA/AS OW deal include US domestic sharing of FF benefits/miles?



yes
 
jplatts
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:45 pm

klkla wrote:
It's really amusing that AA is creating an international gateway in Seattle that relies on Alaska for domestic feed. That's exactly how Delta got started in Seattle and we all know how that worked out.

I'm curious if Alaska is guaranteeing AA a certain amount of feed. They wouldn't do that with Delta which is what forced their hand and they had to add their own flights in order to feed their international flights.


AA will also have some connecting feed from its CLT, ORD, DFW, MIA, PHL, and PHX hubs in addition to O&D and connecting feed from AS flights on its international flights out of SEA, and the same is already true on JL's SEA-NRT nonstop flights.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:02 am

questions wrote:
WN HQ is an absolute cluster. I doubt DL wants anything to do with WN.

DL’s challenge now is not US flow to feed its Asia Pacific network. It is its Asia Pacific network that is the problem.

AA’s challenge was the opposite. Poor western US flow. AA/AS is less about SEA, which is making everyone on here hard, and more about western US to Asia Pacific.

DL was not surprised by AA/AS’s move. The move was an identified risk for a while, no doubt. If DL’s strategy calls out Asia Pacific growth, they will need to start executing on the strategic tactics sooner rather than later. If Asia Pacific is not a strategic play, don’t expect much from Delta related to AA/AS’s move.


I wouldn't dismiss Delta not wanting to do anything with WN. The reality here is that American/Alaska has just changed the industry dynamic without committing much resources. The new alliance will still able to react to competitive responses quite nimbly. So if Delta wants a response, it needs to find a way to boost its west coast presence (perhaps to support P2P Asia), expand in Seattle (somehow) and fill the holes in Texas, getting a new FF base from the southern U.S. west of the Mississippi as nimbly as possible as well. There is only one airline that can do that. In addition, as I mentioned before, this affects Southwest as much as Delta, considering they are wanting to expand internationally, and a good portion of that traffic flow occurs in the Texas to LA up the West Coast catchment areas (I would believe) where American will be having a grand 'ol time with Alaska (and where Delta is in some areas and will now be in areas relatively weaker.) It does seem strange to suggest, but I would be surprised if Delta is not looking at its options in a limited scope deal IMO.
 
sxf24
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:28 am

SocalApproach wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:


AS had plans, It didn't work and its not on hold. Its dead. Some AS fan boys will blame it on the 737MAX delays And then you have some AS fan boys who actually believe this is growth. The ironic thing is DL wanted AS to join skyteam once upon a time and be the regional PNW feeder for them. AS refused and DL just decided to do it themselves. Now AS is okay with doing the same thing with AA? This is clearly a defensive move from AS since DL was clearly on their way to eating Alaska for dinner and theres nothing anyone can say to change my mind. However its about time their management made a decision that actually makes sense because up until now the VX acquisition expansion has flopped and the fleet decision which looks like it was made 5 years ago and they wont deviate from it has also....flopped.

When AS finally decides to announce they are taking delivery of 100 737MAX aircraft, lets not forget all the old 737s they will retire along with the entire 319/320 VX fleet as they come off their leases. I fail to see how that is "growth". To me the mainline fleet is overall shrinking, is it not? Future growth for AS will be mostly regional jet flying as they do not have scope.


AS tried and cut some routes from California. I don’t think that is indicative of a national strategy they never laid out to investors or a failed VX acquisition.

Further, DL never wanted AS in Skyteam. They demanded AS drop all partnerships with airlines not affiliated with DL, such as BA and EK, and partner exclusively with DL. Since BA and EK make AS more money than DL ever did, that would not have been a good move.


I’ve heard plenty of reasons on what went wrong with DL and requesting AS to stop partnering with EK and BA sounds in line with what I believe however it omits that AS was collecting profits from DL to carry passengers through ATL and on to LHR but also selling tickets through ATL to collect money with BA. Makes sense DL was not happy with that because BA is a direct competitor in ATL with DL on that route. It would be no different if DL was selling Tickets to ANC via SEA on B6 at the time


I’m not sure I understand. The pre-alliance nature of AS’ partnership was about sending/receiving feed from partners. While there were some codeshares where AS (or its partners) sold each other’s inventory, it is/was mostly interline connections. The consumer chooses the itinerary and the airline with the inventory at the best price wins. DL was trying to bully AS into exclusion it didn’t have to compete. This is DL’s MO and a reason it is so successful.
 
Sydscott
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:17 am

TYWoolman wrote:
questions wrote:
WN HQ is an absolute cluster. I doubt DL wants anything to do with WN.

DL’s challenge now is not US flow to feed its Asia Pacific network. It is its Asia Pacific network that is the problem.

AA’s challenge was the opposite. Poor western US flow. AA/AS is less about SEA, which is making everyone on here hard, and more about western US to Asia Pacific.

DL was not surprised by AA/AS’s move. The move was an identified risk for a while, no doubt. If DL’s strategy calls out Asia Pacific growth, they will need to start executing on the strategic tactics sooner rather than later. If Asia Pacific is not a strategic play, don’t expect much from Delta related to AA/AS’s move.


I wouldn't dismiss Delta not wanting to do anything with WN. The reality here is that American/Alaska has just changed the industry dynamic without committing much resources. The new alliance will still able to react to competitive responses quite nimbly. So if Delta wants a response, it needs to find a way to boost its west coast presence (perhaps to support P2P Asia), expand in Seattle (somehow) and fill the holes in Texas, getting a new FF base from the southern U.S. west of the Mississippi as nimbly as possible as well. There is only one airline that can do that. In addition, as I mentioned before, this affects Southwest as much as Delta, considering they are wanting to expand internationally, and a good portion of that traffic flow occurs in the Texas to LA up the West Coast catchment areas (I would believe) where American will be having a grand 'ol time with Alaska (and where Delta is in some areas and will now be in areas relatively weaker.) It does seem strange to suggest, but I would be surprised if Delta is not looking at its options in a limited scope deal IMO.


Realistically there is no competitive response necessary from DL to this. DL's strategy for the West Coast is already pretty much know:

- Grow LAX where they are in the midst of terminal re-construction and consolidation;
- Grow and defend SLC where they have a great connecting hub and are by far the dominant carrier;
- Grow SEA as the airport allows.

Those, along with their already pretty sizeable ops in California including p2p routes and their operations in Portland, constitute DL's West Coast strategy. All this deal does is bring AA up to par to compete with what DL has already built and with what UA has in SFO and LAX. So DL doesn't need to respond here becuase the strategy they are executing is a great one, its profitable and it gives them plenty of growth options.

For AA, this gives them the North - South network on the West Coast that they need at a lower cost than they could ever build it themselves with. And I'd make 3 other points:

1) AA has JFK slots to burn and a nice terminal there for AS to move into. So I think that nicely solves where AS is going to end up at JFK;
2) What happens at SFO will now be interesting because both AA and AS will have upcoming access to a whole lot more real estate in SFO;
3) AS, with its announcements over the last 6 months, is now doing what I thought they should have started with when they did the VX deal. They shouldn't have been worried about mid-continent stuff from SAN and what they should have been doing is connecting all of their places of strength in the PNW into SFO / LAX etc. That's what is finally happening with GEG, BOI and others. So I think the strategy that AS rolled out to grow in California was in the wrong order. They needed to build on their focus cities and get them locked down before they threw darts to the Midwest so I'm glad that is happening.

This deal also makes AA alot more competitive in California as well. So overall a great deal for both AA and AS and gives both more relevnance in growth markets.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:43 am

SEAflyer97 wrote:
questions wrote:
AA and AS are currently co-located at SFO in T2. It was my understanding that AA was going to move to the new portion of T1. I wonder if AA and AS will remain in T2 or co-locate in T1.

AS is taking over entire T2(eventually). T1 does not have enough space for it.

Actually, UA will be getting AA's old gates in T2. AS will have the same gates and AA will move to T1B.
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tphuang
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:48 am

Sydscott wrote:
Realistically there is no competitive response necessary from DL to this. DL's strategy for the West Coast is already pretty much know:

- Grow LAX where they are in the midst of terminal re-construction and consolidation;

LAX is a fragmented market they have to be in, but there is no chance for them to be anything more than they are now unless some outrageous merger happens
- Grow and defend SLC where they have a great connecting hub and are by far the dominant carrier;

Due to not adding much to their core hubs in recent years, SLC is going to soon be dominated by UA at DEN. That's going to be terrible for its PnL. And instead of being able to dedicate resource for that, now they have to deal with this AA retaliation situation.
- Grow SEA as the airport allows.

Again, they could've taken a larger loss in the past years to utilize their gates more aggressively and get more capacity, but they chose to take on more projects. At the same time, AS rededicated all their resources to go through Seattle. You would to go from LAX/SFO/PDX to CMH/TPA/PIT/RDU? You are going to have route through Seattle if you want to fly AS. DL can never dedicate that level of attention to SEA as long as it commits to SLC/LAX or even MSP. That level of single minded dedication to SEA will ensure that AS continues to have dominant share of SEA gates. And as long as they have that, DL is drawing an inside straight. And now that big accounts with SEA base have more reason to pick AS due to their membership into OW, what is DL's plan?

Those, along with their already pretty sizeable ops in California including p2p routes and their operations in Portland, constitute DL's West Coast strategy. All this deal does is bring AA up to par to compete with what DL has already built and with what UA has in SFO and LAX. So DL doesn't need to respond here becuase the strategy they are executing is a great one, its profitable and it gives them plenty of growth options.

What DL has is not as sustainable as what UA has in west coast. UA has 2 great partners in the west coast (AC and NH) that allow them to dominate traffic to Asia. SEA is at best marginally profitable. Probably a lot worse than that actually. LAX is below system average in margins. SLC is really profitable. But we will see how the continued DEN buildup affects that.

For AA, this gives them the North - South network on the West Coast that they need at a lower cost than they could ever build it themselves with. And I'd make 3 other points:

1) AA has JFK slots to burn and a nice terminal there for AS to move into. So I think that nicely solves where AS is going to end up at JFK;
2) What happens at SFO will now be interesting because both AA and AS will have upcoming access to a whole lot more real estate in SFO;
3) AS, with its announcements over the last 6 months, is now doing what I thought they should have started with when they did the VX deal. They shouldn't have been worried about mid-continent stuff from SAN and what they should have been doing is connecting all of their places of strength in the PNW into SFO / LAX etc. That's what is finally happening with GEG, BOI and others. So I think the strategy that AS rolled out to grow in California was in the wrong order. They needed to build on their focus cities and get them locked down before they threw darts to the Midwest so I'm glad that is happening.

This deal also makes AA alot more competitive in California as well. So overall a great deal for both AA and AS and gives both more relevnance in growth markets.

Yes, great deal for AS, good deal for AA, bad everyone else, especially DL.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 502
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:55 am

Sydscott wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
questions wrote:
WN HQ is an absolute cluster. I doubt DL wants anything to do with WN.

DL’s challenge now is not US flow to feed its Asia Pacific network. It is its Asia Pacific network that is the problem.

AA’s challenge was the opposite. Poor western US flow. AA/AS is less about SEA, which is making everyone on here hard, and more about western US to Asia Pacific.

DL was not surprised by AA/AS’s move. The move was an identified risk for a while, no doubt. If DL’s strategy calls out Asia Pacific growth, they will need to start executing on the strategic tactics sooner rather than later. If Asia Pacific is not a strategic play, don’t expect much from Delta related to AA/AS’s move.


I wouldn't dismiss Delta not wanting to do anything with WN. The reality here is that American/Alaska has just changed the industry dynamic without committing much resources. The new alliance will still able to react to competitive responses quite nimbly. So if Delta wants a response, it needs to find a way to boost its west coast presence (perhaps to support P2P Asia), expand in Seattle (somehow) and fill the holes in Texas, getting a new FF base from the southern U.S. west of the Mississippi as nimbly as possible as well. There is only one airline that can do that. In addition, as I mentioned before, this affects Southwest as much as Delta, considering they are wanting to expand internationally, and a good portion of that traffic flow occurs in the Texas to LA up the West Coast catchment areas (I would believe) where American will be having a grand 'ol time with Alaska (and where Delta is in some areas and will now be in areas relatively weaker.) It does seem strange to suggest, but I would be surprised if Delta is not looking at its options in a limited scope deal IMO.


Realistically there is no competitive response necessary from DL to this. DL's strategy for the West Coast is already pretty much know:

- Grow LAX where they are in the midst of terminal re-construction and consolidation;
- Grow and defend SLC where they have a great connecting hub and are by far the dominant carrier;
- Grow SEA as the airport allows.

Those, along with their already pretty sizeable ops in California including p2p routes and their operations in Portland, constitute DL's West Coast strategy. All this deal does is bring AA up to par to compete with what DL has already built and with what UA has in SFO and LAX. So DL doesn't need to respond here becuase the strategy they are executing is a great one, its profitable and it gives them plenty of growth options.

For AA, this gives them the North - South network on the West Coast that they need at a lower cost than they could ever build it themselves with. And I'd make 3 other points:

1) AA has JFK slots to burn and a nice terminal there for AS to move into. So I think that nicely solves where AS is going to end up at JFK;
2) What happens at SFO will now be interesting because both AA and AS will have upcoming access to a whole lot more real estate in SFO;
3) AS, with its announcements over the last 6 months, is now doing what I thought they should have started with when they did the VX deal. They shouldn't have been worried about mid-continent stuff from SAN and what they should have been doing is connecting all of their places of strength in the PNW into SFO / LAX etc. That's what is finally happening with GEG, BOI and others. So I think the strategy that AS rolled out to grow in California was in the wrong order. They needed to build on their focus cities and get them locked down before they threw darts to the Midwest so I'm glad that is happening.

This deal also makes AA alot more competitive in California as well. So overall a great deal for both AA and AS and gives both more relevnance in growth markets.


You make fine points. One way this is a bigger deal than not is because this alliance is in a Post-Merger industry, so you have the largest by most measures in a deal with a smaller competitor. The fact that this is a great match and a complimentary growth opportunity between Alaska and American shouldn't be seen as inevitable or a way to pull the wool over the eyes of Delta (or United). Sure Delta would have ascertained the risks of American forging this kind of alliance, but that doesn't mean that such risk assessment would be contained within an organic growth response. Southwest provides an enormous opportunity for Texas and the West for Delta even in a limited scope deal with at least a form of a frequent flyer agreement, where Dallas and Houston O&D passengers can use miles to travel on Delta, for one example. And Delta can very much satisfy Southwest's desire for connecting Southwest passengers onward towards international destinations, which Delta can launch from literally any one of Southwest's focus cities (which mostly have supporting 'connecting' opportunities), but agreement would focus only on the west of the Mississippi. Texas would be a huge void filled for Delta (even in tandem with an Austin focus city in the future). There are far fewer options in the market place today that can offer such a good response (but does require some creativity, I might add) and I believe necessitates Delta and Southwest to think that perhaps one hand can wash the other.
 
sxf24
Posts: 993
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:15 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
questions wrote:
AA and AS are currently co-located at SFO in T2. It was my understanding that AA was going to move to the new portion of T1. I wonder if AA and AS will remain in T2 or co-locate in T1.

AS is taking over entire T2(eventually). T1 does not have enough space for it.

Actually, UA will be getting AA's old gates in T2. AS will have the same gates and AA will move to T1B.


Not all, but some. AS is getting, I think, 3 gates which will allow them to consolidate operations in a single terminal but not grow much.
 
kavok
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:49 am

Call me skeptical on this whole “AA making SEA an international gateway“ talk. To be clear, I think the AS to OW will benefit both AS and AA domestically. I think it also helps AS better compete with DL, and officially being part of OW will help them compete with DL’s international offerings. So yes, it is a good deal for AA and especially AS... but I will be very surprised if AA does much internationally with SEA on their own metal.

Expanding further, I view the proposed AA flight from SEA-Bangalore more of a situation where AA didn’t really have many good TPAC options that even made (somewhat) sense to offer, and Bangalore was the best they could come up with. As far as OW is concerned, HKG-SEA makes more sense to be flown by Cathay, TYO by JAL, etc. point being, it makes much more sense for almost any TPAC service to SEA to be flown by the OW international partner, and not AA. India was the best they could come up with. On the TATL side, BA already serves SEA double daily, and (besides MAD) there really isn’t anywhere else in Europe to fly that won’t be a significant competitive disadvantage with DL/SkyTeam or LH. So internationally speaking, I am not seeing it from AA metal. It doesn’t make sense, even with the AS feed.

Finally, realistically AA is not going to push many TPAC connections over SEA. They will push their own AA TPAC traffic through DFW, LAX, and to a lesser extent ORD, most of which will be flow on partner metal for the TPAC leg.
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:03 am

KLMatSJC wrote:
SEAflyer97 wrote:
questions wrote:
AA and AS are currently co-located at SFO in T2. It was my understanding that AA was going to move to the new portion of T1. I wonder if AA and AS will remain in T2 or co-locate in T1.

AS is taking over entire T2(eventually). T1 does not have enough space for it.

Actually, UA will be getting AA's old gates in T2. AS will have the same gates and AA will move to T1B.


How many gates will AS and AA have at SFO? Is it enough for a sizable operation?
 
Sydscott
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:12 am

kavok wrote:
Call me skeptical on this whole “AA making SEA an international gateway“ talk. To be clear, I think the AS to OW will benefit both AS and AA domestically. I think it also helps AS better compete with DL, and officially being part of OW will help them compete with DL’s international offerings. So yes, it is a good deal for AA and especially AS... but I will be very surprised if AA does much internationally with SEA on their own metal.

Expanding further, I view the proposed AA flight from SEA-Bangalore more of a situation where AA didn’t really have many good TPAC options that even made (somewhat) sense to offer, and Bangalore was the best they could come up with. As far as OW is concerned, HKG-SEA makes more sense to be flown by Cathay, TYO by JAL, etc. point being, it makes much more sense for almost any TPAC service to SEA to be flown by the OW international partner, and not AA. India was the best they could come up with. On the TATL side, BA already serves SEA double daily, and (besides MAD) there really isn’t anywhere else in Europe to fly that won’t be a significant competitive disadvantage with DL/SkyTeam or LH. So internationally speaking, I am not seeing it from AA metal. It doesn’t make sense, even with the AS feed.

Finally, realistically AA is not going to push many TPAC connections over SEA. They will push their own AA TPAC traffic through DFW, LAX, and to a lesser extent ORD, most of which will be flow on partner metal for the TPAC leg.


I wouldn't be so sure. SEA is a lot more convenient as a connection point to Asia than either DFW or LAX is and while DFW - Asia service is probably safe, I'd hazard that AA will be doing sums about whether LAX or SEA could make them more $$$. Or maybe we see a scenario where the dormant ORD - PVG/PEK flights are re-allocated to SEA. What AS at SEA gives AA are growth options that they didn't have before and an ideally located West Coast connection point. That's exactly why DL built it up.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:30 am

kavok wrote:
Call me skeptical on this whole “AA making SEA an international gateway“ talk. To be clear, I think the AS to OW will benefit both AS and AA domestically. I think it also helps AS better compete with DL, and officially being part of OW will help them compete with DL’s international offerings. So yes, it is a good deal for AA and especially AS... but I will be very surprised if AA does much internationally with SEA on their own metal.

Expanding further, I view the proposed AA flight from SEA-Bangalore more of a situation where AA didn’t really have many good TPAC options that even made (somewhat) sense to offer, and Bangalore was the best they could come up with. As far as OW is concerned, HKG-SEA makes more sense to be flown by Cathay, TYO by JAL, etc. point being, it makes much more sense for almost any TPAC service to SEA to be flown by the OW international partner, and not AA. India was the best they could come up with. On the TATL side, BA already serves SEA double daily, and (besides MAD) there really isn’t anywhere else in Europe to fly that won’t be a significant competitive disadvantage with DL/SkyTeam or LH. So internationally speaking, I am not seeing it from AA metal. It doesn’t make sense, even with the AS feed.

Finally, realistically AA is not going to push many TPAC connections over SEA. They will push their own AA TPAC traffic through DFW, LAX, and to a lesser extent ORD, most of which will be flow on partner metal for the TPAC leg.


LHR was also announced on AA metal starting starting March 2021. I highly doubt they will just keep it at two long haul destinations. Definitely no need to fly Tokyo or HKG, since JL and CX are already on those routes and flown by AA metal out of LAX.


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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:09 am

tphuang wrote:
And now that big accounts with SEA base have more reason to pick AS due to their membership into OW, what is DL's plan?


Every company I have worked for has had preferred airline partners, not preferred airline alliances. The contracts were negotiated at the airline level, not with the alliance.

All of the multi-nationals in Seattle with global travelers already have contracts with individual airlines. oneworld or SkyTeam is not going to be a selling point. Sure new contracts will be entered into and others will be opened up for renewal and renegotiation. The contracts will be based on networks needed by the company, pricing, perks to employees and perks offered to the most senior executive team. Alliance will not matter a rat’s ass.
 
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:07 am

I’m not sure when it happened (2014?) but Bangalore is now printed as Bengaluru on our boarding passes. BLR still works I guess!
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:10 am

chepos wrote:
kavok wrote:
Call me skeptical on this whole “AA making SEA an international gateway“ talk. To be clear, I think the AS to OW will benefit both AS and AA domestically. I think it also helps AS better compete with DL, and officially being part of OW will help them compete with DL’s international offerings. So yes, it is a good deal for AA and especially AS... but I will be very surprised if AA does much internationally with SEA on their own metal.

Expanding further, I view the proposed AA flight from SEA-Bangalore more of a situation where AA didn’t really have many good TPAC options that even made (somewhat) sense to offer, and Bangalore was the best they could come up with. As far as OW is concerned, HKG-SEA makes more sense to be flown by Cathay, TYO by JAL, etc. point being, it makes much more sense for almost any TPAC service to SEA to be flown by the OW international partner, and not AA. India was the best they could come up with. On the TATL side, BA already serves SEA double daily, and (besides MAD) there really isn’t anywhere else in Europe to fly that won’t be a significant competitive disadvantage with DL/SkyTeam or LH. So internationally speaking, I am not seeing it from AA metal. It doesn’t make sense, even with the AS feed.

Finally, realistically AA is not going to push many TPAC connections over SEA. They will push their own AA TPAC traffic through DFW, LAX, and to a lesser extent ORD, most of which will be flow on partner metal for the TPAC leg.


LHR was also announced on AA metal starting starting March 2021. I highly doubt they will just keep it at two long haul destinations. Definitely no need to fly Tokyo or HKG, since JL and CX are already on those routes and flown by AA metal out of LAX.


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What else are they going to add? Two is sufficient. They aren’t going to fly anything from Seattle that isn’t done from LA.
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