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AAtakeMeAway
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:04 pm

Regarding AA @ SFO, AA is scheduled to move all ops to T1B next month. A new Admirals Club will open on March 24 in T1 - it will be about 20% larger than the current AC in T2 and will include two showers. There will not be a fireplace, but the fake trees will be moved over to the new club.
 
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OA412
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:09 pm

A lot of doomsday scenarios here, but we have to wait and see. There were those who predicted WNs acquisition of FL would create a cascading effect that would eventually topple DL entirely. Obviously, that didn't happen. Of course AS is larger in SEA than DL, but it's not as though DL is going to just walk away from SEA.

I'm also seeing some of the same arguments re: DLs decision to not acquire the 787. DL has the A350 which it can use to start these routes if it so chooses. It's noteworthy that the A350 in DL config doesn't seat all that many more than AAs 789. Moreover, the 787 isn't some sort of magical panacea that automatically makes any flights viable and/or profitable. If it were, AA wouldn't have dumped it's China flying from ORD and UA wouldn't have cancelled ORD-HKG just shortly before announcing 787 flying from ORD. I think the point that people are missing is that outside a few select markets, DL has decided that ULH flying is not in the companies best interest. UA, and to a lesser extent AA, have decided otherwise. Time will tell who is correct, but ULH flights are very costly to operate and it really only makes sense when you have large hubs in major cities like UA does.

tphuang wrote:
DBCoop3r wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
:

" "Bangalore is one of Amazon’s top three business-travel markets" said Brett Catlin, Alaska’s head of network planning and alliances
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/18/airline ... r=sharebar


Oh weird. The airliners.net armchair analysts always say DL is losing so much money in SEA, but the real analysts say SEA is one of their most profitable hubs. Whom to believe...


right, a comment by CNBC overrides all the domestic fare data we have access to. These guys must really be making boatloads on those China flights!

Those numbers only tell part of the story. Unless you have access to the actual P & L numbers, you can't say how profitable or not SEA is for DL.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:20 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

That blogger is misinformed.


While I agree that article is poor journalism, I don’t think we can rule out the possibility of a merger. This move awfully smells like a first step in that direction.


Anything on here smells like a merger. “Alaska and United serve stroopwafel style cookies: merger ahead?”

AA and AS had partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and DL had a partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and NW codeshared before. They didn’t merge.

Could it happen? Sure. But there’s no actual proof of that happening. Just folks looking for “I told you so points” in ten years by making various merger claims. I mean there was a Delta/Southwest merger suggestion on this thread.


Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:25 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

While I agree that article is poor journalism, I don’t think we can rule out the possibility of a merger. This move awfully smells like a first step in that direction.


Anything on here smells like a merger. “Alaska and United serve stroopwafel style cookies: merger ahead?”

AA and AS had partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and DL had a partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and NW codeshared before. They didn’t merge.

Could it happen? Sure. But there’s no actual proof of that happening. Just folks looking for “I told you so points” in ten years by making various merger claims. I mean there was a Delta/Southwest merger suggestion on this thread.


Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:26 pm

I think it was Alaska that did all the leg-work to propose a case for SEA-Bangalore. Willing to bet they initiated the alliance as well. There were many bees protecting the SEA hive. Not that it detracts from the brilliance of the move.
 
dc10lover
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:31 pm

So AA & BA - LHR from Seattle
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:41 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

Anything on here smells like a merger. “Alaska and United serve stroopwafel style cookies: merger ahead?”

AA and AS had partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and DL had a partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and NW codeshared before. They didn’t merge.

Could it happen? Sure. But there’s no actual proof of that happening. Just folks looking for “I told you so points” in ten years by making various merger claims. I mean there was a Delta/Southwest merger suggestion on this thread.


Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


I can understand the logic why they would want to prohibit. But a limited scope partnership would involve Delta international into Southwest domestic (vic-a-versa) most likely using aircraft Southwest does not have. I am sure a case can be made. Doesn't sound so alien to me as it may be to some, especially if American gets approval and most especially if United and JetBlue hook up. Just another way for Delta to fill up planes using a P2P strategy into Asia, Latin America and Europe from U.S. cities Delta would never dream of having comprehensive domestic coverage.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:43 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


I can understand the logic why they would want to prohibit. But a limited scope partnership would involve Delta international into Southwest domestic (vic-a-versa) most likely using aircraft Southwest does not have. I am sure a case can be made. Doesn't sound so alien to me as it may be to some, especially if American gets approval and most especially if United and JetBlue hook up. Just another way for Delta to fill up planes using a P2P strategy into Asia, Latin America and Europe from U.S. cities Delta would never dream of having comprehensive domestic coverage.

Once again what you propose is prohibited by the Pilots CBA and won’t change anytime soon.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:47 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

Anything on here smells like a merger. “Alaska and United serve stroopwafel style cookies: merger ahead?”

AA and AS had partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and DL had a partnership before. They didn’t merge. AS and NW codeshared before. They didn’t merge.

Could it happen? Sure. But there’s no actual proof of that happening. Just folks looking for “I told you so points” in ten years by making various merger claims. I mean there was a Delta/Southwest merger suggestion on this thread.


Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:02 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.


I wouldn't say it's inevitable that they do, but definitely something to consider given the ever-changing industry. It would open up options for them and allow them to consider strategic alternatives to its current model, which has been very successful, however.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:13 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Unless someone else suggested merger, I am pretty sure what was suggested was a limited scope alliance between Delta and Southwest.

WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.

Only code share allowed is inter island HI and AS
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:17 am

TYWoolman wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.


I wouldn't say it's inevitable that they do, but definitely something to consider given the ever-changing industry. It would open up options for them and allow them to consider strategic alternatives to its current model, which has been very successful, however.

You do realize they will have to negotiate it with the pilots and it won’t come cheap.
 
delimit
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:22 am

Why would they even want to? They've been the most consistently profitable airline in America for decades not doing it. What is going to fundamentally change in the next decade or two that would change their (very successful) model?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:23 am

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.


I wouldn't say it's inevitable that they do, but definitely something to consider given the ever-changing industry. It would open up options for them and allow them to consider strategic alternatives to its current model, which has been very successful, however.

You do realize they will have to negotiate it with the pilots and it won’t come cheap.


Understood. I am only providing a hypothetical. A true case for any alliance would have to be formerly presented to the CBA with negotiation in mind, and in doing so then, the business case for an alliance had better be strong!
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:25 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

I wouldn't say it's inevitable that they do, but definitely something to consider given the ever-changing industry. It would open up options for them and allow them to consider strategic alternatives to its current model, which has been very successful, however.

You do realize they will have to negotiate it with the pilots and it won’t come cheap.


Understood. I am only providing a hypothetical. A true case for any alliance would have to be formerly presented to the CBA with negotiation in mind, and in doing so then, the business case for an alliance had better be strong!

Their pilots are under no obligation to open their CBA for that too happen.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:37 am

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
You do realize they will have to negotiate it with the pilots and it won’t come cheap.


Understood. I am only providing a hypothetical. A true case for any alliance would have to be formerly presented to the CBA with negotiation in mind, and in doing so then, the business case for an alliance had better be strong!

Their pilots are under no obligation to open their CBA for that too happen.


I am not going to pretend there is any scenario where they should be obligated. At such time any strategic option is presented, either the pilots will think only their direction for the company is best, management will think only their direction of the company is best, or they both will be on the same page. Either way, I am sure Southwest will be just fine, but talk of another aircraft type into the fleet sure makes you wonder that the status quo is sustainable!
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:39 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Understood. I am only providing a hypothetical. A true case for any alliance would have to be formerly presented to the CBA with negotiation in mind, and in doing so then, the business case for an alliance had better be strong!

Their pilots are under no obligation to open their CBA for that too happen.


I am not going to pretend there is any scenario where they should be obligated. At such time any strategic option is presented, either the pilots will think only their direction for the company is best, management will think only their direction of the company is best, or they both will be on the same page. Either way, I am sure Southwest will be just fine, but talk of another aircraft type into the fleet sure makes you wonder that the status quo is sustainable!

Their pilots have consistently told WN no, that’s why they couldn’t get a B6 interline agreement.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:42 am

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Their pilots are under no obligation to open their CBA for that too happen.


I am not going to pretend there is any scenario where they should be obligated. At such time any strategic option is presented, either the pilots will think only their direction for the company is best, management will think only their direction of the company is best, or they both will be on the same page. Either way, I am sure Southwest will be just fine, but talk of another aircraft type into the fleet sure makes you wonder that the status quo is sustainable!

Their pilots have consistently told WN no, that’s why they couldn’t get a B6 interline agreement.


Then I would trust that their pilots know what they are doing. And I am sure the success of Southwest has been that secret ingredient word: No.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:46 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

I am not going to pretend there is any scenario where they should be obligated. At such time any strategic option is presented, either the pilots will think only their direction for the company is best, management will think only their direction of the company is best, or they both will be on the same page. Either way, I am sure Southwest will be just fine, but talk of another aircraft type into the fleet sure makes you wonder that the status quo is sustainable!

Their pilots have consistently told WN no, that’s why they couldn’t get a B6 interline agreement.


Then I would trust that their pilots know what they are doing. And I am sure the success of Southwest has been that secret ingredient word: No.

Well they never filed bankruptcy, nor laid anyone off, carry more domestic passengers than any other airline and have been the most consistent profitable airline. And their pilots did agree to inter-island HI and AS codesharing.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:58 am

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Their pilots have consistently told WN no, that’s why they couldn’t get a B6 interline agreement.


Then I would trust that their pilots know what they are doing. And I am sure the success of Southwest has been that secret ingredient word: No.

Well they never filed bankruptcy, nor laid anyone off, carry more domestic passengers than any other airline and have been the most consistent profitable airline. And their pilots did agree to inter-island HI and AS codesharing.


Can you expound briefly on the AS codesharing. What does it allow?
 
Detroit313
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:07 am

Can't wait for American and Alaska to merge.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:11 am

Boof02671 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
WN’s pilots’ CBA prohibits code sharing etc.


All forms of codesharing or just with domestic competitors?

At some point, they are going to have to explore codeshare with international carriers.

Only code share allowed is inter island HI and AS


Others on here have said certain long haul codesharing would be allowed subject to approval by the pilot union.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1358263

They don't need to codeshare for domestic, but since they can't really fly long haul services without changing their business model, I don't see why they can't codeshare to Europe/Asia like AS/B6 do. If they were still a niche carrier, I'd say codesharing wouldn't be necessary, but now that they are a major carrier in the US market that is being increasingly used by business travelers, codesharing is something that will have to be done eventually.

Honestly, WN codesharing would probably increase demand for WN flights as new gateways could be opened at less congested airports like BWI, BNA, OAK, etc. I don't see why the WN pilots are so sensitive towards long haul codesharing.
 
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Aisak
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:12 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Can't wait for American and Alaska to merge.

... and the merged AAAS develop DTW to the hub it really deserves to be
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:16 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

Then I would trust that their pilots know what they are doing. And I am sure the success of Southwest has been that secret ingredient word: No.

Well they never filed bankruptcy, nor laid anyone off, carry more domestic passengers than any other airline and have been the most consistent profitable airline. And their pilots did agree to inter-island HI and AS codesharing.


Can you expound briefly on the AS codesharing. What does it allow?

Not AS the airline sorry, they can codeshare in the state of Alaska only b
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:22 am

Boof02671 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Well they never filed bankruptcy, nor laid anyone off, carry more domestic passengers than any other airline and have been the most consistent profitable airline. And their pilots did agree to inter-island HI and AS codesharing.


Can you expound briefly on the AS codesharing. What does it allow?

Not AS the airline sorry, they can codeshare in the state of Alaska only b


Ok. Interesting. I guess because it's so remote.
 
Byrdluvs747
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:25 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Can't wait for American and Alaska to merge.


As an alternative to merging, I'm wondering how much of AS could AA purchase without the DOJ becoming irate.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:21 am

Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz
 
BigPlaneGuy13
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:23 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz


Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?
 
alasizon
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:34 am

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz


Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


AS has three statuses; MVP, Gold and 75k. Roughly translated those would meet up with Gold, Platinum and Exec Platinum for AA and Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald for OW.

I see no reason for AS why they really have to change since they already devalue partner flights over direct AS legs and currently Mileage Plan is an asset for them.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
9w748capt
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:12 am

alasizon wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz


Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


AS has three statuses; MVP, Gold and 75k. Roughly translated those would meet up with Gold, Platinum and Exec Platinum for AA and Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald for OW.

I see no reason for AS why they really have to change since they already devalue partner flights over direct AS legs and currently Mileage Plan is an asset for them.


Doesn't AS not allow members to redeem miles on multiple airlines on a single award? Meaning you can use AS miles to book a CX award, but you can't book CX flights and an onward connection on AA in the same award. At least that's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. They'll have to change that when they join oneworld, hence a devaluation. There's no way they're going to sell a SE Asia-US J award for 55K miles.
 
SEAflyer97
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:17 am

9w748capt wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


AS has three statuses; MVP, Gold and 75k. Roughly translated those would meet up with Gold, Platinum and Exec Platinum for AA and Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald for OW.

I see no reason for AS why they really have to change since they already devalue partner flights over direct AS legs and currently Mileage Plan is an asset for them.


Doesn't AS not allow members to redeem miles on multiple airlines on a single award? Meaning you can use AS miles to book a CX award, but you can't book CX flights and an onward connection on AA in the same award. At least that's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. They'll have to change that when they join oneworld, hence a devaluation. There's no way they're going to sell a SE Asia-US J award for 55K miles.

They are not going to change that. Asiamiles doesn't allow multiple partners w/ the standard chart as well.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:15 am

9w748capt wrote:
alasizon wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:

Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


AS has three statuses; MVP, Gold and 75k. Roughly translated those would meet up with Gold, Platinum and Exec Platinum for AA and Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald for OW.

I see no reason for AS why they really have to change since they already devalue partner flights over direct AS legs and currently Mileage Plan is an asset for them.


Doesn't AS not allow members to redeem miles on multiple airlines on a single award? Meaning you can use AS miles to book a CX award, but you can't book CX flights and an onward connection on AA in the same award. At least that's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. They'll have to change that when they join oneworld, hence a devaluation. There's no way they're going to sell a SE Asia-US J award for 55K miles.

Cathay is a weird one with married segments. They require certain parameters for redemption. I actually almost booked a CX to AS connection with AA last month. It can be done.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
9w748capt
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:00 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
9w748capt wrote:
alasizon wrote:

AS has three statuses; MVP, Gold and 75k. Roughly translated those would meet up with Gold, Platinum and Exec Platinum for AA and Ruby, Sapphire and Emerald for OW.

I see no reason for AS why they really have to change since they already devalue partner flights over direct AS legs and currently Mileage Plan is an asset for them.


Doesn't AS not allow members to redeem miles on multiple airlines on a single award? Meaning you can use AS miles to book a CX award, but you can't book CX flights and an onward connection on AA in the same award. At least that's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. They'll have to change that when they join oneworld, hence a devaluation. There's no way they're going to sell a SE Asia-US J award for 55K miles.

Cathay is a weird one with married segments. They require certain parameters for redemption. I actually almost booked a CX to AS connection with AA last month. It can be done.


Are you talking about redeeming AA miles or CX? Because yes, it's always been possible with AA miles to create a mixed-airline award ticket. I'm not too familiar with Asiamiles.
 
CLJFlyer
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:39 pm

BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz


Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


I have a few questions regarding the loyalty program. Not sure if there are answers out there for this, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Do you think that AS will change from miles flown to ticket price paid when it comes to mileage accrual?
2.If they do keep miles flown, how will it work when I fly AA and try to credit the miles to AS? If I fly let's say 1500 miles with AA, will I receive the 1500 miles on my AS account?
3. If I have MVP status with AS and fly AA will I receive 50% more miles on my AS account?
4. Do we know the exact date we can start earning AS miles on AA metal? I have a few trips coming up and this answer will determine who I book with.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:22 pm

CLJFlyer wrote:
BigPlaneGuy13 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Go start your own thread about WN. Zzzzzzz


Seconded.

Back on topic though: what can we expect to happen to AS’s loyalty program? I’ve always enjoyed it for being (in my opinion) far more generous than other airlines — especially compared to AA. Will AS have to water down its program and create new statuses since they have 2 and AA has 4?


I have a few questions regarding the loyalty program. Not sure if there are answers out there for this, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Do you think that AS will change from miles flown to ticket price paid when it comes to mileage accrual?
2.If they do keep miles flown, how will it work when I fly AA and try to credit the miles to AS? If I fly let's say 1500 miles with AA, will I receive the 1500 miles on my AS account?
3. If I have MVP status with AS and fly AA will I receive 50% more miles on my AS account?
4. Do we know the exact date we can start earning AS miles on AA metal? I have a few trips coming up and this answer will determine who I book with.


I don’t think those details have been revealed, the answer to your questions would be speculative at beat.


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User avatar
EA CO AS
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:25 pm

AS will be keeping a mileage-based program.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:35 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
AS will be keeping a mileage-based program.
I'd not make a long term bet on that. They kept it mile based as they needed to keep the program more appealing versus their competitors. Joining Oneworld negates that need to some degree and I'd expect AS's ranks would swell due to this difference (think mid-tier AAdvantage members moving to Alaska's program to generate more miles vs AA). Once the ranks swell with members that fly AA, but book AS, there will be pressure (investors / internal AS) to remove cost from the AS program and a revenue-based program will be the most likely path.

In 3 years it will be on its way to revenue-based for the above reasons. 
 
sxf24
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:09 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
AS will be keeping a mileage-based program.
I'd not make a long term bet on that. They kept it mile based as they needed to keep the program more appealing versus their competitors. Joining Oneworld negates that need to some degree and I'd expect AS's ranks would swell due to this difference (think mid-tier AAdvantage members moving to Alaska's program to generate more miles vs AA). Once the ranks swell with members that fly AA, but book AS, there will be pressure (investors / internal AS) to remove cost from the AS program and a revenue-based program will be the most likely path.

In 3 years it will be on its way to revenue-based for the above reasons. 


I disagree. Revenue based programs work best when you can incentivize paid premium traffic, mostly on international flights. Since AS doesn’t receive the same benefit with partnerships or codeshares, and has a stronger leisure focus, mileage-based works well.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26157
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:17 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
AS will be keeping a mileage-based program.
I'd not make a long term bet on that. They kept it mile based as they needed to keep the program more appealing versus their competitors. Joining Oneworld negates that need to some degree and I'd expect AS's ranks would swell due to this difference (think mid-tier AAdvantage members moving to Alaska's program to generate more miles vs AA). Once the ranks swell with members that fly AA, but book AS, there will be pressure (investors / internal AS) to remove cost from the AS program and a revenue-based program will be the most likely path.

In 3 years it will be on its way to revenue-based for the above reasons. 


I would absolutely make a long term bet on that. AS domestic route structure, combined with its global partner reach, makes revenue-based/dollar spend ineffective.

AS ranks will not swell. It doesn’t make sense. People who fly AA want the AA elite benefits that are not transferable to AS, specifically upgrades.

And AA flights in lower buckets will likely only earn 25% EQM. Combined with the increased requirement for partnered requal (you need to fly 25k minimum), that means somebody who only flies AA will need to fly 100,000 actual miles on AA to earn the lowest tier of Alaska status!
Last edited by MAH4546 on Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
a.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:20 pm

I believe "All" of us knew AS joining One World was a matter of time.

Excellent Thread by the way :-)
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
dc10lover
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Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:25 pm

As time progresses, I hope AS being in AA Colors / Livery doesn't happen. Alaska needs to stay - ALASKA!
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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flybynight
Posts: 1534
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:38 pm

enilria wrote:
runway23 wrote:
AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Adding two flights does not make SEA a hub. It was already an AS hub. We will see if they add more.


And even if AA wanted a hub in Seattle, I don't think SEA has the capacity to add a third airline as a hub.

Seems to me, if an airline wants a hub in the PNW they should look at PDX.
Frankly I think it is much more pleasant airport (granted, we'll have to see what SEA looks like after the N-terminal and the international terminal are upgraded and completed).
Heia Norge!
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm

OA412 wrote:
I think the point that people are missing is that outside a few select markets, DL has decided that ULH flying is not in the companies best interest. UA, and to a lesser extent AA, have decided otherwise. Time will tell who is correct, but ULH flights are very costly to operate and it really only makes sense when you have large hubs in major cities like UA does.


I have said this before on other threads. DL’s international network strategy is different that UA’s and AA’s.

However, SEA-BLR is a good example as to whether DL missed a “select markets” opportunity. Certainly DL is smart in analyzing future route potential and profitability.

The questions are:
Did DL underestimate SEA-BLR O&D nonstop demand?
Does AS’s feed into SEA make a case for SEA-BLR that DL would never have?
Is DL sitting back shaking their heads knowing this will not work for AA?
Are there other SEA to non-partner hubs (SkyTeam or oneworld) that are underserved nonstop?

If DL believes there is money to be made with a nonstop flight and/or overall market share in SEA will be at risk by not offering nonstop flights their customers (corporate and premium) want, DL will have a competitive response.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:58 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
AS ranks will not swell. It doesn’t make sense. People who fly AA want the AA elite benefits that are not transferable to AS, specifically upgrades.
It will be easier for many people to reach Oneworld Emerald/Saphire on Alaska than AA. There are many conditions of infrequent flyers that buy cheap J/W flights on AA than would earn many times more towards making Oneworld E/S on AS than AA.

What AA Platinum or Gold is getting upgrades, the benefits would be the same for an Alaska Oneworld Emerald/Saphire.

MAH4546 wrote:
And AA flights in lower buckets will likely only earn 25% EQM.
So a guess.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:06 pm

questions wrote:
OA412 wrote:
I think the point that people are missing is that outside a few select markets, DL has decided that ULH flying is not in the companies best interest. UA, and to a lesser extent AA, have decided otherwise. Time will tell who is correct, but ULH flights are very costly to operate and it really only makes sense when you have large hubs in major cities like UA does.


I have said this before on other threads. DL’s international network strategy is different that UA’s and AA’s.

However, SEA-BLR is a good example as to whether DL missed a “select markets” opportunity. Certainly DL is smart in analyzing future route potential and profitability.

The questions are:
Did DL underestimate SEA-BLR O&D nonstop demand?
Does AS’s feed into SEA make a case for SEA-BLR that DL would never have?
Is DL sitting back shaking their heads knowing this will not work for AA?
Are there other SEA to non-partner hubs (SkyTeam or oneworld) that are underserved nonstop?

If DL believes there is money to be made with a nonstop flight and/or overall market share in SEA will be at risk by not offering nonstop flights their customers (corporate and premium) want, DL will have a competitive response.
It is very simple DL does not have the planes for SEA-BLR. The 77Ls are all accounted for and that is the only machine DL has that could make the flight. DL is going to use JFK for their India flights, which is fine. NYC will get BLR eventually be it UA or DL.

AA did not have enough feed to make NYC work for them, so SEA and the west coast is where they threw their hat in for India, which makes a lot of sense for them.
 
questions
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Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:17 pm

dc10lover wrote:
As time progresses, I hope AS being in AA Colors / Livery doesn't happen. Alaska needs to stay - ALASKA!


I think before you see AS in AA livery you will see AA influence on AS in a lot of ways.

Enhancements...

We’re listening to you...

To better serve our customers...

We’re offering you more options than ever... (Just not the ones you want!)

There will be a lot of revenue and cost pressures on AS from the Street as they will be looking for earnings, earnings, earnings from this strategic partnership.

What you thought you were getting post new branding, e.g., new F, will go the way of mashed potatoes.

This is not about SEA.

This is all about providing flow to oneworld networks at LAX, SFO, PDX and SEA and investors will be looking to make sure AS is getting a significant earnings bump from the partnership. And when they don’t get enough, look for the adoption of AA’s race to the bottom tactics to enter the picture.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26157
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:27 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
AS ranks will not swell. It doesn’t make sense. People who fly AA want the AA elite benefits that are not transferable to AS, specifically upgrades.
It will be easier for many people to reach Oneworld Emerald/Saphire on Alaska than AA. There are many conditions of infrequent flyers that buy cheap J/W flights on AA than would earn many times more towards making Oneworld E/S on AS than AA.

What AA Platinum or Gold is getting upgrades, the benefits would be the same for an Alaska Oneworld Emerald/Saphire.

MAH4546 wrote:
And AA flights in lower buckets will likely only earn 25% EQM.
So a guess.


Again, to earn that “fast” OW status they need to fly Alaska! You need to fly 5x the amount of miles on most coach fares to earn that status not flying Alaska! On Cathay, for example, OneWorld Ruby on coach would require flying 100k miles. Or between LA and HK 12 times!

Yea, there might be a handful of people who fly a lot of long haul J that will prefer to credit to AS, but that amount will be negligible, and likely already exists. If you are flying long haul premium, many of the OW elite benefits don’t matter. You get them with your ticket as is.

And it is hardly a guess. 25% is what AS elites flying AA internationally currently earn.
a.
 
YouGeeElWhy
Posts: 492
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:33 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
And it is hardly a guess. 25% is what AS elites flying AA internationally currently earn.
Mileage Plan does not earn EQM today on AA, so I am not sure what you are on about that.

I have a bridge to sell you if you think AS is not going to have a favorable chart for AA when it comes to EQM/Bonus Miles/etc...
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:37 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
questions wrote:
OA412 wrote:
I think the point that people are missing is that outside a few select markets, DL has decided that ULH flying is not in the companies best interest. UA, and to a lesser extent AA, have decided otherwise. Time will tell who is correct, but ULH flights are very costly to operate and it really only makes sense when you have large hubs in major cities like UA does.


I have said this before on other threads. DL’s international network strategy is different that UA’s and AA’s.

However, SEA-BLR is a good example as to whether DL missed a “select markets” opportunity. Certainly DL is smart in analyzing future route potential and profitability.

The questions are:
Did DL underestimate SEA-BLR O&D nonstop demand?
Does AS’s feed into SEA make a case for SEA-BLR that DL would never have?
Is DL sitting back shaking their heads knowing this will not work for AA?
Are there other SEA to non-partner hubs (SkyTeam or oneworld) that are underserved nonstop?

If DL believes there is money to be made with a nonstop flight and/or overall market share in SEA will be at risk by not offering nonstop flights their customers (corporate and premium) want, DL will have a competitive response.
It is very simple DL does not have the planes for SEA-BLR. The 77Ls are all accounted for and that is the only machine DL has that could make the flight. DL is going to use JFK for their India flights, which is fine. NYC will get BLR eventually be it UA or DL.

AA did not have enough feed to make NYC work for them, so SEA and the west coast is where they threw their hat in for India, which makes a lot of sense for them.


I’ve seen folks here say the A350 can’t fly SEA-BLR, but the 787s can. My understanding is the A350 is Airbus’s answer to the
787? Is the 787 that much more capable, or for Airbuses sake they built a plane that was supposed to compete but didn’t?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26157
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:52 pm

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
And it is hardly a guess. 25% is what AS elites flying AA internationally currently earn.
Mileage Plan does not earn EQM today on AA, so I am not sure what you are on about that.

I have a bridge to sell you if you think AS is not going to have a favorable chart for AA when it comes to EQM/Bonus Miles/etc...


Mileage plan earns miles today on international flights. When EQM is added, like other partners, the rate will be the same as base miles. You are dead wrong in thinking they are going to be “favorable.” It’ll be 25% as it already is.

https://www.alaskaair.com/content/milea ... verview:AA
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