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blr380
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:33 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:02 pm

Main cabin flexible for just shy over $1k - The fare was too low to burn my 80k miles! Premium economy was showing around $1400, but I couldn't purchase it. I might upgrade later when the option opens up. Regardless - this will be a great seller!
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:44 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
superjeff wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
If given the choice to a OW premium FF on a West Coast-BLR route -
would he/she choose
AS - AA to BLR via SEA. OR
AA/BA- BA to BLR via LHR ??

Assuming similar fares and connecting times.



1. SEA on the West Coast-BLR route is a domestic to international connection, while SEA-LHR-BLR involves an international to international connection, and a possible T3 to T5 change in London. SEA is easier. Coming back has customs/immigration in SEA (mid flight) and for non-US citizens, particularly, could be a bit more complicated. BUT:
Most likely, you'd be on a BA flight as AA will have 3 out of the 14 or so from the West Coast between them and BA. That is a likely T5-T5, which at least saves you a bus ride. SEA INTL/Domestic is only better than LHR T3-T5, not T5-T5, on transfers. The facilities are certainly nicer at LHR.

That being said, saving 2.5 - 4 hours on flights each direction for PHX/SAN/LAX/SFO/SJC/YVR would be hard to pass up. The only thing a person might consider is the timings of the XXX-SEA/LHR-BLR flights. The AA flight will likely be timed like UA's SFO-DEL flight, so coming back, you would have the rest of your day after an earlier morning domestic flight from SEA. For me, I would rather arrive in the evening in the US, so there is not much time to "survive," before getting to bed.

superjeff wrote:
2. AA's Premium service (Business Class) hard product is generally regarded as equal to or better than BA's.
I'd argue BA's new hard product in J, which is on the LHR-BLR route, is better than anything AA has. The soft product is certainly better for BA.

With the new IAF i don't see how SEA is worse than T5-T5. The worst case scenario at SEA is South Satellite to D11. It requires 1 scenic walk through the skybridge, immigration + customs, security check, 1 train ride and 5 minute walk to D11. At LHR it's at least 2 train ride + security check, also you won't be able to know your gate until T-90 most likely. Also, don't forget, you need to clear immigration at your US destination! You can just walk out like a domestic passenger if you transfer at SEA
 
SATexan
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:49 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:36 am

747megatop wrote:
If someone is in a full lie flat first class/business seat then MAYBE yes. But rest of the folks? Hell no.

Well, a good amount of IT Account / Delivery Managers and similar roles have to get the ball rolling as soon as they get out of the airport EVEN when they travel in Y. The Indian IT Managers end up getting ready at a friend at a co-workers place and head straight to work. Such is life! It will be a fairly common occurrence for folks to show up in SEA at 6 AM finish meeting some clients and head to the Bay Area or Denver the same evening. Company Travel is about delivering business for the company. Rest, not so much!
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 3123
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:25 pm

Not sure if this was mentioned in the 21 pages of this thread, but it appears the AA BLR route is actually LAX-SEA-BLR, same plane, same flight number service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/290020/american-airlines-adds-seattle-bangalore-service-from-late-oct-2020/

Schedule as follows;

AA200 LAX1250 – 1550SEA 789 D
AA200 SEA1755 – 2345+1BLR 789 D

AA201 BLR0305 – 0600SEA 789 D
AA201 SEA0830 – 1140LAX 789 D

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
blrBird
Posts: 482
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:39 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:39 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Not sure if this was mentioned in the 21 pages of this thread, but it appears the AA BLR route is actually LAX-SEA-BLR, same plane, same flight number service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/290020/american-airlines-adds-seattle-bangalore-service-from-late-oct-2020/

Schedule as follows;

AA200 LAX1250 – 1550SEA 789 D
AA200 SEA1755 – 2345+1BLR 789 D

AA201 BLR0305 – 0600SEA 789 D
AA201 SEA0830 – 1140LAX 789 D

'902

Will this entice LAX pax to opt for this rather than other 1 stop options?
How big is LA region AA pax?
from star dust....
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2661
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:01 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Not sure if this was mentioned in the 21 pages of this thread, but it appears the AA BLR route is actually LAX-SEA-BLR, same plane, same flight number service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/290020/american-airlines-adds-seattle-bangalore-service-from-late-oct-2020/

Schedule as follows;

AA200 LAX1250 – 1550SEA 789 D
AA200 SEA1755 – 2345+1BLR 789 D

AA201 BLR0305 – 0600SEA 789 D
AA201 SEA0830 – 1140LAX 789 D

'902


The page before this.

blrBird wrote:
Will this entice LAX pax to opt for this rather than other 1 stop options?
How big is LA region AA pax?


Didn't AA say they wanted to do LAX-India or something but they're restricted by range? Which is why they chose Seattle?

Anyways, the 789 for SEA-BLR has to come from somewhere, looks like LAX was chosen.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2661
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Thu Apr 02, 2020 10:17 pm

Seattle to Bangalore has been delayed to 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5193
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:58 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Seattle to Bangalore has been delayed to 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx


That's if we all recover by then.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1074
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:01 am

Ishrion wrote:
Seattle to Bangalore has been delayed to 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

It is going to depend on how AA comes out of the current situation. The launch will probably see more delays.
 
Thunderbolt500
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:12 am

x1234 wrote:
Considering BLR is the centre of the BPO and back-office business, increasingly call centres are also moving to MNL. I read on here DL was interested in eventually flying SEA-MNL. Where did that go!?

Maybe we should leave in the us
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:44 am

DTWLAX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Seattle to Bangalore has been delayed to 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

It is going to depend on how AA comes out of the current situation. The launch will probably see more delays.

Is there a possibility it could be dropped completely?
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:48 am

Yeah we have to see how AA does in this very challenging time. They have much bigger priorities now, sadly.

Long term though i can see AA making SEA work for long haul flights, they have AS to feed them. In the challenging times ahead, less risk to fly Asia out of SEA than DFW or ORD. AS has the feed for them. Additionally we will see how delta does with SEA. They need trans pac flights to feed their domestic flights. Even before this delta was burning money in SEA. Alot will be TBD.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4899
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:41 am

budgetflyer wrote:
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Related to the news of AS joining OW, quite a shock!

London will also follow in 2021

this should only be a shock to Delta. They went into SEA and tried to Bully AS. As didn't step to Delta, It was the other way around. AS should do well for themselves..
 
n7371f
Posts: 1802
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Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:09 am

What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.

strfyr51 wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Related to the news of AS joining OW, quite a shock!

London will also follow in 2021

this should only be a shock to Delta. They went into SEA and tried to Bully AS. As didn't step to Delta, It was the other way around. AS should do well for themselves..
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26153
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:11 am

n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.

strfyr51 wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Related to the news of AS joining OW, quite a shock!

London will also follow in 2021

this should only be a shock to Delta. They went into SEA and tried to Bully AS. As didn't step to Delta, It was the other way around. AS should do well for themselves..


AA is in no way, shape or form “bailing” on LA as a hub.
a.
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:39 pm

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:40 pm

n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.

strfyr51 wrote:
budgetflyer wrote:
http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2020/Alaska-Airlines-American-Airlines-Announce-New-West-Coast-International-Alliance-Alaskas-West-Coast-Network-to-Connect-With-Americans-Long-Haul-Flying-to-Create-More-Choice-for-Travelers-NET-ALP/default.aspx

Related to the news of AS joining OW, quite a shock!

London will also follow in 2021

this should only be a shock to Delta. They went into SEA and tried to Bully AS. As didn't step to Delta, It was the other way around. AS should do well for themselves..


DAL running HND-ICN flights? To my knowledge, DL does not have 5th freedom rights from HND like they did from NRT.

Did you mean flights to HND and to ICN?
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:47 pm

DeltaPSCFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.

strfyr51 wrote:
this should only be a shock to Delta. They went into SEA and tried to Bully AS. As didn't step to Delta, It was the other way around. AS should do well for themselves..


DAL running HND-ICN flights? To my knowledge, DL does not have 5th freedom rights from HND like they did from NRT.

Did you mean flights to HND and to ICN?


Traffic rights are not airport-specific (excepting the old restriction of which airlines could fly between the U.S. and LHR). The 5th freedoms in DL's pocket, inherited from NW of course, are beyond-Japan or beyond-Tokyo, not beyond-Narita Airport-only. Which airport do you think NW used prior to the opening of NRT?

That being said...according to current GDS timetable, DL does not fly TYO-SEL, from any airport, to any airport. AFAIK DL ceased the last of their beyond-Japan 5th freedoms some time ago.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
durangomac
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:18 am

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:53 pm

cathay747 wrote:
DeltaPSCFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.



DAL running HND-ICN flights? To my knowledge, DL does not have 5th freedom rights from HND like they did from NRT.

Did you mean flights to HND and to ICN?


Traffic rights are not airport-specific (excepting the old restriction of which airlines could fly between the U.S. and LHR). The 5th freedoms in DL's pocket, inherited from NW of course, are beyond-Japan or beyond-Tokyo, not beyond-Narita Airport-only. Which airport do you think NW used prior to the opening of NRT?

That being said...according to current GDS timetable, DL does not fly TYO-SEL, from any airport, to any airport. AFAIK DL ceased the last of their beyond-Japan 5th freedoms some time ago.


I thought I remember reading that the HND slots were granted with the restriction that DL could only fly to US cities only, this restriction was to keep the 5th freedom rights in NRT.
 
hpff
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Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:23 pm

n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.


There's a graph that was shared - think it may be on the UAL thread - which showed AA was the strongest of the big 3 at LAX (though nobody does all that well at LAX) and that DL's SEA hub was the weakest hub of any big 3 hub.

Obviously we're in odd times, but with UA and DL saying they'll be 70% smaller coming out of this (haven't seen AA but probably similar) the battle for SEA will be very interesting.
 
Detroit313
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:56 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:01 am

Seattle should be left to Alaska. These are challenging times.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:28 am

Detroit313 wrote:
Seattle should be left to Alaska. These are challenging times.


Agreed. This isn't the time to try and strangle your competition.
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:30 pm

durangomac wrote:
cathay747 wrote:
DeltaPSCFlyer wrote:

DAL running HND-ICN flights? To my knowledge, DL does not have 5th freedom rights from HND like they did from NRT.

Did you mean flights to HND and to ICN?


Traffic rights are not airport-specific (excepting the old restriction of which airlines could fly between the U.S. and LHR). The 5th freedoms in DL's pocket, inherited from NW of course, are beyond-Japan or beyond-Tokyo, not beyond-Narita Airport-only. Which airport do you think NW used prior to the opening of NRT?

That being said...according to current GDS timetable, DL does not fly TYO-SEL, from any airport, to any airport. AFAIK DL ceased the last of their beyond-Japan 5th freedoms some time ago.


I thought I remember reading that the HND slots were granted with the restriction that DL could only fly to US cities only, this restriction was to keep the 5th freedom rights in NRT.


That could be, I can't speak intelligently about it. But if correct, that's a slot restriction, not a traffic right; I'd say similar to the slot restrictions in place at LGA & DCA with the perimeter rules and beyond-perimeter slot waivers.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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cathay747
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:34 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
Seattle should be left to Alaska. These are challenging times.


Agreed. This isn't the time to try and strangle your competition.


Quite so...nobody can afford to (and responsibly should not) spend the money right now to get into pissing matches with each other. Everyone's claws are pulled in given that every Emperor has no clothes.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Detroit313
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:55 pm

I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.
 
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cathay747
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:58 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.


I would think not, as every airline will be needing & WANTING any possible mechanism to gain revenue, and joining OW should provide such an opportunity. That being said however, I do see it being postponed as there is a lot of work that has to be done by any airline to join one of the alliances, not least of which is IT-related, and that all costs big bucks which I don't see them being willing to spend just now.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
jetawayusa
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:04 pm

Detroit313 wrote:
I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.

when this crisis shakes out...perhaps Alaska will not want to team up with a weaker AA.... perhaps it may want to team up with a weaker Delta and actually make Seattle a domestic/international rival to SFO....just a thought! These are changing time and perhaps for survival sake....AS and DL union is a possibility!! They are the best two full service airlines in the USA and their culture are much more inline than AA & AS! JMHO
 
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ER757
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:52 pm

jetawayusa wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.

when this crisis shakes out...perhaps Alaska will not want to team up with a weaker AA.... perhaps it may want to team up with a weaker Delta and actually make Seattle a domestic/international rival to SFO....just a thought! These are changing time and perhaps for survival sake....AS and DL union is a possibility!! They are the best two full service airlines in the USA and their culture are much more inline than AA & AS! JMHO

I don't see AS and DL kissing and making up - too many bridges burned at this point - just my :twocents:
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:50 pm

jetawayusa wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.

when this crisis shakes out...perhaps Alaska will not want to team up with a weaker AA.... perhaps it may want to team up with a weaker Delta and actually make Seattle a domestic/international rival to SFO....just a thought! These are changing time and perhaps for survival sake....AS and DL union is a possibility!! They are the best two full service airlines in the USA and their culture are much more inline than AA & AS! JMHO


If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.
 
FSDan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:59 pm

rjbesikof wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Seattle to Bangalore has been delayed to 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

It is going to depend on how AA comes out of the current situation. The launch will probably see more delays.

Is there a possibility it could be dropped completely?


Certainly. AA's going to cut a lot of international flying over the remainder of this year, and will be permanently retiring some of its long haul fleet. I'd assume any route that was previously doing well that needs to be cut for now due to lower demand will be first in line to be re-added as demand picks back up. An unproven ULH route like SEA-BLR has to be further down the list of routes to add...
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:11 pm

SkyTeam would offer nothing to Alaska. Especially in Asia/Pacific which is important to SEA and the West Coast.

Alaska needs One World. Qantas, Cathay, Japan Airlines, AA, BA. It is the alliance that makes the most sense for Alaska.

Already the vast majority of airlines Alaska has been codesharing with is OneWorld members because structurally that's what makes sense for them.
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:24 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
jetawayusa wrote:
Detroit313 wrote:
I wonder if the crisis is going to have any impact on Alaska joining OneWorld.

when this crisis shakes out...perhaps Alaska will not want to team up with a weaker AA.... perhaps it may want to team up with a weaker Delta and actually make Seattle a domestic/international rival to SFO....just a thought! These are changing time and perhaps for survival sake....AS and DL union is a possibility!! They are the best two full service airlines in the USA and their culture are much more inline than AA & AS! JMHO


If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.

If, as you say passenger demand remains weak for ‘more than two years’, the higher likelihood is that there won’t be the same ‘DL in SEA’ to partner with.
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 141
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Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:10 pm

hpff wrote:
n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.


There's a graph that was shared - think it may be on the UAL thread - which showed AA was the strongest of the big 3 at LAX (though nobody does all that well at LAX) and that DL's SEA hub was the weakest hub of any big 3 hub.

Obviously we're in odd times, but with UA and DL saying they'll be 70% smaller coming out of this (haven't seen AA but probably similar) the battle for SEA will be very interesting.


What is your definition of weakest ? Does this mean smallest, least profitable, etc.?
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2226
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:28 pm

Seattle will be more loyal to AS if it becomes a fight to the end. No doubt of that.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 5494
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:55 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.


Your username betrays your bias.
Your statement is literal insanity. And also implies illegal collusion between the two companies.
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.
 
bcbhokie
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:30 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:37 am

AA737-823 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.


Your username betrays your bias.
Your statement is literal insanity. And also implies illegal collusion between the two companies.
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


Alaska was partners with Delta for years, dating back to the Northwest days, and that business was a big part of them doing "fine" during that era. Alaska really does need the boost of providing at least some connecting feed for partners flying international, and if OneWorld airlines start a major pullback from Seattle, teaming up with their Delta could suddenly look a lot more attractive.
 
hpff
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Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: American to launch SEA-BLR flights in Oct 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:27 am

MrPeanut wrote:
hpff wrote:
n7371f wrote:
What are you trying to communicate? The 23,402 person to blame Delta for going into Seattle? Your grammar is incorrect.

If anything, DAL going into the SEA market is even more brilliant given the strong tech economy. Wonder why DAL is still running HND-ICN flights? Because of value of corporate contracts. SEA will be a valuable fall back for DL during this shitty time. Meanwhile AA is all but bailing on LA as a hub.


There's a graph that was shared - think it may be on the UAL thread - which showed AA was the strongest of the big 3 at LAX (though nobody does all that well at LAX) and that DL's SEA hub was the weakest hub of any big 3 hub.

Obviously we're in odd times, but with UA and DL saying they'll be 70% smaller coming out of this (haven't seen AA but probably similar) the battle for SEA will be very interesting.


What is your definition of weakest ? Does this mean smallest, least profitable, etc.?


I have no idea, I posted this a couple weeks ago and now can't find the chart. Whatever the metric was, DL at SEA had the shortest bar in the bar chart.

bcbhokie wrote:
AA737-823 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.


Your username betrays your bias.
Your statement is literal insanity. And also implies illegal collusion between the two companies.
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


Alaska was partners with Delta for years, dating back to the Northwest days, and that business was a big part of them doing "fine" during that era. Alaska really does need the boost of providing at least some connecting feed for partners flying international, and if OneWorld airlines start a major pullback from Seattle, teaming up with their Delta could suddenly look a lot more attractive.


I will be shocked if AS ever partners with DL again.
 
onwFan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:03 am

bcbhokie wrote:
AA737-823 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.


Your username betrays your bias.
Your statement is literal insanity. And also implies illegal collusion between the two companies.
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


Alaska was partners with Delta for years, dating back to the Northwest days, and that business was a big part of them doing "fine" during that era. Alaska really does need the boost of providing at least some connecting feed for partners flying international, and if OneWorld airlines start a major pullback from Seattle, teaming up with their Delta could suddenly look a lot more attractive.

AS, BA, JL and CX have a much higher chance of succeeding at SEA than DL has ever had or will.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:03 am

AS just can’t tie up with DL. The publicity align with some contracts that I’m sure have been signed already would never allow it.
 
ocracoke
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:31 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Seattle will be more loyal to AS if it becomes a fight to the end. No doubt of that.


Prior to 1978, AS was wavering back and forth between being a scheduled airline and a charter company in the state of Alaska, with a grand total of one destination in the lower 48: SEA. In the meanwhile, Pan Am, Northwest, Western, and United were magnitudes larger in SEA that AS was. Pan Am, the airline that before deregulation had almost zero domestic flights, was larger than AS in Seattle, while UA was up to 20 times as large as AS in Seattle. In the 1980s, AS slowly started flying SEA->south/east, but it wasnt until the 1990s/2000s that AS really grew SEA into the hub we know today.

What happened to all those passengers loyal to UA, the airline that was 20 times larger than AS in SEA? Simple...they ran over to AS when AS started offering them more than UA did. So much for Seattle loyalty. Don't believe for a minute that if AS starts floundering in SEA, and another airline moves in, that the good people of SEA wont wave good bye to AS. Because they will. Just like all those USAir passengers in BOS are now with B6. And all those PSA passengers in southern California are now WN flyers. Or all those Braniff passengers in DFW have long ago switched to AA. There is nothing special about AS that wont prevent the people of SEA from moving on if the situation arises. AS needs to work hard and fight every day for every passenger, and not have a "we'll be OK, because Seattle loves us" attitude.

AA737-823 wrote:
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


When you say Delta, which part do you mean? Because today's DL is a mixture of about a gazillion airlines. Do you mean Northwest, that started flying to Seatte in 1933? Do you mean West Coast Airlines, (that eventually merged into Hughes AirWest -> Republic -> Northwest), that started flying to Seattle in 1946? Do you mean Western Air Lines, that started flying to Seattle in 1947?

Because Alaska didn't start flying to Seattle until 1951. Heck, they weren't even the first airline between Alaska and Seattle. Pan Am beat them there.

onwFan wrote:
AS, BA, JL and CX have a much higher chance of succeeding at SEA than DL has ever had or will.


And this based on.....?
Data? A hunch? Insight into the industry? Personal wish?
I mean, I realize you're still upset at DL for "stealing" your Latam away from AA, and ever since that day you've been on a DL bash fest, but remember, the world is full of past airlines that had a high chance of success: Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, SwissAir, and so on. So, besides the sudden love for AS (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), why are you sure that BA, JL, and CX will do better than DL in SEA? I would say 87 years of flying in and out of Seattle could be considered a success. Wouldn't you??
 
n2dru
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:02 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:54 am

n2dru wrote:
onwFan wrote:
AS, BA, JL and CX have a much higher chance of succeeding at SEA than DL has ever had or will.


And this based on.....?
Data? A hunch? Insight into the industry? Personal wish?
I mean, I realize you're still upset at DL for "stealing" your Latam away from AA, and ever since that day you've been on a DL bash fest, but remember, the world is full of past airlines that had a high chance of success: Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, SwissAir, and so on. So, besides the sudden love for AS (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), why are you sure that BA, JL, and CX will do better than DL in SEA? I would say 87 years of flying in and out of Seattle could be considered a success. Wouldn't you??



I think its a personal wish. I've been watching this thread and others with DL or Skyteam and negative comments abound from this individual.
 
onwFan
Posts: 432
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:21 am

ocracoke wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
Seattle will be more loyal to AS if it becomes a fight to the end. No doubt of that.


Prior to 1978, AS was wavering back and forth between being a scheduled airline and a charter company in the state of Alaska, with a grand total of one destination in the lower 48: SEA. In the meanwhile, Pan Am, Northwest, Western, and United were magnitudes larger in SEA that AS was. Pan Am, the airline that before deregulation had almost zero domestic flights, was larger than AS in Seattle, while UA was up to 20 times as large as AS in Seattle. In the 1980s, AS slowly started flying SEA->south/east, but it wasnt until the 1990s/2000s that AS really grew SEA into the hub we know today.

What happened to all those passengers loyal to UA, the airline that was 20 times larger than AS in SEA? Simple...they ran over to AS when AS started offering them more than UA did. So much for Seattle loyalty. Don't believe for a minute that if AS starts floundering in SEA, and another airline moves in, that the good people of SEA wont wave good bye to AS. Because they will. Just like all those USAir passengers in BOS are now with B6. And all those PSA passengers in southern California are now WN flyers. Or all those Braniff passengers in DFW have long ago switched to AA. There is nothing special about AS that wont prevent the people of SEA from moving on if the situation arises. AS needs to work hard and fight every day for every passenger, and not have a "we'll be OK, because Seattle loves us" attitude.

AA737-823 wrote:
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


When you say Delta, which part do you mean? Because today's DL is a mixture of about a gazillion airlines. Do you mean Northwest, that started flying to Seatte in 1933? Do you mean West Coast Airlines, (that eventually merged into Hughes AirWest -> Republic -> Northwest), that started flying to Seattle in 1946? Do you mean Western Air Lines, that started flying to Seattle in 1947?

Because Alaska didn't start flying to Seattle until 1951. Heck, they weren't even the first airline between Alaska and Seattle. Pan Am beat them there.

onwFan wrote:
AS, BA, JL and CX have a much higher chance of succeeding at SEA than DL has ever had or will.


And this based on.....?
Data? A hunch? Insight into the industry? Personal wish?
I mean, I realize you're still upset at DL for "stealing" your Latam away from AA, and ever since that day you've been on a DL bash fest, but remember, the world is full of past airlines that had a high chance of success: Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, SwissAir, and so on. So, besides the sudden love for AS (the enemy of my enemy is my friend), why are you sure that BA, JL, and CX will do better than DL in SEA? I would say 87 years of flying in and out of Seattle could be considered a success. Wouldn't you??

Despite all the history you have elaborated, I wouldn't call what DL is in SEA now a success. It is/was just a budding hub...

And LOL... you think I am ‘upset’ that DL ‘stole’ Latam from AA? Actually, I am sorry for LA for being the latest candidate to be put in a coffin (to be buried in the not so distant future) - like VS, like VA, and like soon to be WS. So as you said - History speaks for itself!
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:56 am

SEA is not a must-win for Delta. It is for Alaska. As such, the opportunity cost for Delta will be much greater. What else is Alaska going to do with its metal?
 
jetawayusa
Posts: 17
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:30 am

so based on these last few comment since I brought up the AS/DL hook up...would it be feasible for AA to go all in (internationally) @SEA and attack Delta? Delta has said it will shrink (they have to) like all others.... will they just exit what they have built if AA comes in with AS by its side? Do they have the resources? Or do they have to let SEA and AS go at this point to save the stronger parts of their network (PHL, CLT, ORD, PHX and LAX) ....I figure MIA and DFW are safe!.....I just see OW and AA was a way for AS to stave off Delta's growth and strength in SEA...but now that Delta is no longer a wannabe bully in the PNW market...does AS really need to be in OW? They can sleep with everyone else like they are doing now (except DL) without OW !

And seriously SEA-BLR will not happen now....at least not with AA!
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:46 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
SEA is not a must-win for Delta. It is for Alaska. As such, the opportunity cost for Delta will be much greater. What else is Alaska going to do with its metal?



Exactly, personally I wish them the best. But a business case for potentially putting all your resources in one city flying empty planes is not good prospects. In this scenario, synergies with Delta vs American will cut the bleeding IMO.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 504
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:02 pm

AA737-823 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.


Your username betrays your bias.
Your statement is literal insanity. And also implies illegal collusion between the two companies.
Alaska was doing fine in Seattle BEFORE Delta showed up.
They'll be fine in Seattle after Delta leaves.


Nothing to imply here; It explicitly expresses the rationale for all business cases for mergers from the dawn of time into perpetuity: Synergy. Not that a merger is inevitable should Alaska and Delta team up, but Seattle's gate allocation process amid a drawn-out covid-19 lack-of-demand scenario will leave both market share hungry carriers wondering who will be the first to blink. Alaska will all its eggs in Seattle may seem the likely survivor, but not if it has nothing else where it can cut.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:25 pm

Folks, discuss the topic and not other users.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
cporcelli78
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:05 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:33 pm

I am going to wager that AA & AS merge after this Wuhan virus meltdown is over. Industry will consolidate further. I could also see an F9/NK merger as well.
 
dlflynhayn
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:21 pm

And LOL... you think I am ‘upset’ that DL ‘stole’ Latam from AA? Actually, I am sorry for LA for being the latest candidate to be put in a coffin (to be buried in the not so distant future) - like VS, like VA, and like soon to be WS. So as you said - History speaks for itself![/quote]

Not sure if you have been watching any finance news but AA is NOT in any way in a good position compared to DL,WN not saying they are leaps and bounds ahead but they are.So if anyone is gonna see a coffin it will be AA,then UA,DL can pick away at DFW,MIA etc easy IMHO :scratchchin:
P.S. I'll take making the most profit then being slightly bigger IMHO Business Smart!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7755
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:55 pm

onwFan wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
jetawayusa wrote:
when this crisis shakes out...perhaps Alaska will not want to team up with a weaker AA.... perhaps it may want to team up with a weaker Delta and actually make Seattle a domestic/international rival to SFO....just a thought! These are changing time and perhaps for survival sake....AS and DL union is a possibility!! They are the best two full service airlines in the USA and their culture are much more inline than AA & AS! JMHO


If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.

If, as you say passenger demand remains weak for ‘more than two years’, the higher likelihood is that there won’t be the same ‘DL in SEA’ to partner with.


I think it's cute you still believe that AA has any financial capacity to execute on grand plans and strategies announced pre-Covid-19. AA got a $4.1 Billion GRANT last week and has a market cap of $4.7 Billion; that's pretty close to worthless for an enterprise that had $40+ Billion in revenues last year and 133K employees. The market is showing just that much confidence in AA management employees to make $ for shareholders.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:

If passenger demand remains weak for more than two years they will be forced to partner with Delta in order to have a sustainable Seattle hub (Alaska's bread and butter) by rationalizing supply and demand between Delta and Alaska so aircraft don't fly empty just to horde gates IMO.

If, as you say passenger demand remains weak for ‘more than two years’, the higher likelihood is that there won’t be the same ‘DL in SEA’ to partner with.


I think it's cute you still believe that AA has any financial capacity to execute on grand plans and strategies announced pre-Covid-19. AA got a $4.1 Billion GRANT last week and has a market cap of $4.7 Billion; that's pretty close to worthless for an enterprise that had $40+ Billion in revenues last year and 133K employees. The market is showing just that much confidence in AA management employees to make $ for shareholders.

You should probably google "Enterprise value", learn about it, then ask yourself why American's EV is higher than Delta's EV for the first time in YEARS. Comparing relative Market caps alone at a time like this is a bit worthless to use as a barometer for how the market views the two companies. Market cap is interesting but has to be taken as one piece of enterprise value to infer the overall point you're trying to make.
The "market" values Delta's total value less than AA. When is the last time that happened?
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