jbpdx
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:06 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but will AS start to serve MIA from SEA once they join OneWorld?


American already flies it. Alaska is at FLL. As others have said, they won’t do both. Delta should grab PDX-MIA.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
tiptoe42
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:12 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
leftcoast8 wrote:
RIP the Alaska-Emirates partnership.


AS didn’t have to end any of their existing partnerships to join oneworld; the EK partnership will remain in place unless either AS or EK choose to end it for some reason.


Just out of curiosity is this the jaw dropping news you spoke of in another thread regarding Alaska’s “growth” plans?
 
onwFan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:26 pm

jbpdx wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but will AS start to serve MIA from SEA once they join OneWorld?


American already flies it. Alaska is at FLL. As others have said, they won’t do both. Delta should grab PDX-MIA.

Fat chance of that happening with AA/AS having feed at both ends and DL at neither. MIA-PDX seems like a sure new route on AA/AS and PHL-PDX probably going year-round daily. Perhaps AA on JFK-SEA/PDX since they can’t codeshare on the AS direct flights; but can codeshare on feeder connections in the Northwest?

What other new domestic routes may be in the horizon?
 
jbpdx
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:29 pm

wingman wrote:
I'm pretty excited about this as an AS flyer but agree with many that SEA is a hellhole. For selfish reasons I hope AA launches 5-10 rotes from PDX with their smaller widebodies to test the viability of using this as a new West Coast gateway to Asia and Europe. They can leave LHR to BA but certainly flights to Germany and possibly CDG would have potential..Germany would seem to be a lock with Adidas in town. On the plus side it's such a great terminal with solid AS feeder traffic and virtually zero long haul Int'l presence. Point to point to One World hubs seems worthy of an attempt. Japan, Korea, China, India and Germany seem to me they'd be viable with 788s or 332s.


The 5-10 domestic unserved routes (IND, MSY, CVG etc.) are perfect for Delta’s A220-300s, which are coming online this year. American doesn’t even operate to all of its US hubs PDX-MIA/PHL.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
jbpdx
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:35 pm

onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but will AS start to serve MIA from SEA once they join OneWorld?


American already flies it. Alaska is at FLL. As others have said, they won’t do both. Delta should grab PDX-MIA.

Fat chance of that happening with AA/AS having feed at both ends and DL at neither.


PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
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thekorean
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Re: AS to join oneworld

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:43 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
WOW!!! AA going to India out of Seattle!?!

Does AA even fly to Mumbai or Delhi?
 
JBoy
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:48 pm

Pardon if already mentioned. This deal may make it easier for AA to get the A319's from AS?
 
MAH4546
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:51 pm

jbpdx wrote:
dfwjim1 wrote:
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but will AS start to serve MIA from SEA once they join OneWorld?


American already flies it. Alaska is at FLL. As others have said, they won’t do both. Delta should grab PDX-MIA.


They won't do both? Why? Because they don't fly JFK+EWR, IAD+DCA, DAL+DFW?

There is no reason they won't do both. Miami is a logical add.
a.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AS to join oneworld

Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:52 pm

by738 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Consider me skeptical that SEA-BLR is going to work.

Think i might say the same for SEA-LHR....


Very few will say that. It's part of a metal neutral joint venture with British Airways. And the reality is, this is almost definitely replacing the second BA frequency.
a.
 
onwFan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:03 pm

jbpdx wrote:
onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

American already flies it. Alaska is at FLL. As others have said, they won’t do both. Delta should grab PDX-MIA.

Fat chance of that happening with AA/AS having feed at both ends and DL at neither.


PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.

What? Are you suggesting people are gonna connect HND-PDX-MIA-Latin America??

Either way, if DL were to announce PDX-MIA, it is a no brainer that AA will launch it from the same start date.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:03 pm

You have to figure the never-started Delta focus cities in AUS and SJC are about dead now before Delta even did anything there.
AA frequent fliers and corporate customers in AUS just gained nonstops to: PDX, SEA, SAN, and SFO.

In SJC, their fliers gained nonstops to: BOI, PAE, GDL, HNL, KOA, OGG, LIH, EWR, PDX, PVR, RNO, SAN, SJD, and SEA. And already had access to LHR via BA to say nothing of the current AA routes and latest adds.
hard to see any new delta focus city coming close to matching that combined scale.
 
FSDan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:05 pm

UA772IAD wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Just in case anyone is wondering about the p2p demand between Seattle and India, it is as follows over the past year:

*Round trip pax*

DEL - 59,000
HYD - 38,000
BOM - 37,000
BLR - 36,000
MAA - 27,000

Yes HYD has more p2p demand from SEA than BLR, but the latter's yields are about 12% higher. Plus BLR has more overall demand to feeder cities in USA versus HYD.


For average daily numbers, from your data:

DEL - 161
HYD - 104
BOM - 101
BLR - 99
MAA - 101


Actually, I believe you need to cut those in half... The numbers given were the number of round-trip passengers, meaning that each one represents a trip in both directions. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that, but those PDEWs would be more in line with what I'd expect. Also, the MAA PDEW should be lower than BLR, not higher.
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FSDan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:07 pm

onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Fat chance of that happening with AA/AS having feed at both ends and DL at neither.


PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.

What? Are you suggesting people are gonna connect HND-PDX-MIA-Latin America??

Either way, if DL were to announce PDX-MIA, it is a no brainer that AA will launch it from the same start date.


I think the suggestion was that your claim that DL has no feed on either end is incorrect...
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FSDan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:09 pm

onwFan wrote:
Perhaps AA on JFK-SEA/PDX since they can’t codeshare on the AS direct flights; but can codeshare on feeder connections in the Northwest?


Are we 100% sure AA can't codeshare on the AS JFK-SEA/PDX flights? AA cutting JFK-SEA recently would make more sense if they could codeshare on these...
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jbpdx
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:13 pm

onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Fat chance of that happening with AA/AS having feed at both ends and DL at neither.


PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.

What? Are you suggesting people are gonna connect HND-PDX-MIA-Latin America??

Either way, if DL were to announce PDX-MIA, it is a no brainer that AA will launch it from the same start date.


It opens HND for MIA and it opens -MIA and -LATAM for PDX. As for Alaska starting MIA in addition to FLL, why? MIA is an American hub. Neither airline has been interested in adding PDX-MIA—or FLL. Neither has JetBlue been interested in adding PDX to its FLL network. Meanwhile, the MAX fiasco has AA and AS in a bind, as Delta’s A220s are being delivered.
Major N.A. airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEX, CUN; +BNA, +BWI, +PHL, +YYZ
 
RvA
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Re: AS to join oneworld

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:16 pm

thekorean wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
WOW!!! AA going to India out of Seattle!?!

Does AA even fly to Mumbai or Delhi?


Does that matter?
 
onwFan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:48 pm

jbpdx wrote:
onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.

What? Are you suggesting people are gonna connect HND-PDX-MIA-Latin America??

Either way, if DL were to announce PDX-MIA, it is a no brainer that AA will launch it from the same start date.


It opens HND for MIA and it opens -MIA and -LATAM for PDX. As for Alaska starting MIA in addition to FLL, why? MIA is an American hub. Neither airline has been interested in adding PDX-MIA—or FLL. Neither has JetBlue been interested in adding PDX to its FLL network. Meanwhile, the MAX fiasco has AA and AS in a bind, as Delta’s A220s are being delivered.


We’ll need to watch and see what DL does. Trying to keep both SEA and grow PDX at the same time (when AS is significantly larger at both airports) doesn’t sound like a good plan. I think the clock is ticking on PDX-HND and PDX-LHR. There is no incentive for Nike to stick with DL if AS/oneworld offer them so much more coverage. Giving up on PDX and defending SEA would be the most logical thing to do.
 
B752OS
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:49 pm

AA does not run MIA-SEA twice daily year round, does this development mean they'l be able to run it at least twice daily year round now?
 
cledaybuck
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:59 pm

JBoy wrote:
Pardon if already mentioned. This deal may make it easier for AA to get the A319's from AS?

No. I believe most of those are leased. Even if they are not, the answer is still no.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:13 pm

This got lost up thread, but I wonder if AS will pull out of DAL and consolidate all its operations with AA at DFW?
 
Ishrion
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:20 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
This got lost up thread, but I wonder if AS will pull out of DAL and consolidate all its operations with AA at DFW?


Probably a really stupid question - is Alaska allowed to give its gates at DAL to American?
 
slvrblt
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:23 pm

B752OS wrote:
AA does not run MIA-SEA twice daily year round, does this development mean they'l be able to run it at least twice daily year round now?


Hard to say, but with this development, AA could go year-round double daily. One could be a widebody, like we used to have. When we had the SEA-NRT trip, AA27 originated in MIA on B767 equipment, then changed gauge in SEA for the SEA-NRT leg. With the departure of the 767's, a B787 would be perfect there, and could be the aircraft that flies the BLR trip. Of course, it doesn't have to be morning, just match up with whatever timing the SEA-BLR trip has.
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Midwestindy
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:26 pm

jbpdx wrote:
onwFan wrote:
jbpdx wrote:

PDX-MIA fills the gap between PDX-HND and MIA-LATAM. American isn’t interested in PDX, and Alaska has been cutting routes from PDX. Perfect opportunity for Delta.

What? Are you suggesting people are gonna connect HND-PDX-MIA-Latin America??

Either way, if DL were to announce PDX-MIA, it is a no brainer that AA will launch it from the same start date.


It opens HND for MIA and it opens -MIA and -LATAM for PDX. As for Alaska starting MIA in addition to FLL, why? MIA is an American hub. Neither airline has been interested in adding PDX-MIA—or FLL. Neither has JetBlue been interested in adding PDX to its FLL network. Meanwhile, the MAX fiasco has AA and AS in a bind, as Delta’s A220s are being delivered.


PDX doesn't "open up" HND from MIA....MIA already has service to ATL, DTW, & MSP which have nonstops to HND. If DL is going to open up a west coast route to MIA, it will be SEA/LAX-MIA first, as those actually have demand to LATAM and are DL hubs.
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MAH4546
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:31 pm

B752OS wrote:
AA does not run MIA-SEA twice daily year round, does this development mean they'l be able to run it at least twice daily year round now?


AA runs MIASEA twice daily year-round. This was reduced, and continues to be reduced, following the 737MAX groundings. It's a long stage length and easy to run that traffic via other hubs.

When the groundings are over, I'm sure it will resume 2x daily.
a.
 
SATexan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:55 pm

It is rather amusing to see people here believe that AA pulled BLR out of no where. If you watched Vasu Raja's presentation he clearly states that "The Highest growth rate market for our customers is Bangalore. Together with JL, BA and AA, we will be the most important network to the US corporate customer (flying in to Bangalore)". It is therefore clear that AA has locked up some key contracts and has done sufficient homework with alliance partners before starting this flight.

SQ, QR and CX are less than ideal options for SEA-BLR and much of West Coast / Mountain West -India except may be for LAX and SFO. JL hasn't started BLR yet. Premium classes to BLR on LH and BA are often sold out leaving many corporate travellers with the option of flying in to BOM or DEL. I have done it in the past. When AA flew ORD-DEL, the arrival times in DEL were not conducive for connections to BLR and hence I would book DEL-BLR on a seperate ticket. Even the current timings of UA's EWR-BOM/DEL are not very convenient for connections to BLR. In my opinion, the O&D numbers to DEL are a bit inflated and to BLR is deflated. I fully expect this non stop to significantly stimulate the SEA-BLR O&D numbers.

Further, if you have actually worked with H1B techies, then you'd know that when their Visa "stamp" has expired, EU carriers such as BA and LH are NOT travel options. Many techies go to India for getting their Visas stamped & hence they are forced to use the ME3. A nonstop will makes their lives more convenient. Even though the airports in BOM and DEL are really nice, connecting in India is still a hassle. Besides ,there are misgivings about the conduct Customs officials in DEL and BOM. Most techies from India are from the South - Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai and surrounding areas. You can add 10 flights to DEL and BOM and they will still try to avoid those airports.
Last edited by SATexan on Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
aaway
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
I don't know if this is a brilliant strategy from AA, but rather an out of the box move that could work out or could backfire. AS to me is the big winner here. They need some short term help while they adjust their strategy to most likely north/south of west coast and route all the midcon/transcon flow through SEA. right now, if you want to go from California to east of business, you have to first fly to SEA. Not great for their network out of SFO/LAX, right? Well, that's just temporary situation. Long term, AS will eventually tap out at SEA in terms of ability to grow. SEA as a city will continue to grow in wealth, so SEA will become more profitable over time. And then, they will have the resource to build up SFO/LAX again. Pretty brilliant strategy from AS if you ask me.

For AA in the short term, this helps them by giving them a better location to launch TPAC flights and also a more solid network for possible ff in west coast. But in the long terms, AA is grooming a potentially dangerous competitor in AS. It's not like they can just kick AS out of OW down the road if they realize they made a mistake. The biggest advantage legacies have over an airline like AS is their international connection and domestic coverage. And now, they are giving AS both. AS's product is better than AA's domestic product. What's going to entice people to pay more to pay premium to fly ff if it doesn't have network advantage over AS?


I've felt that AA somewhat overshot the international component of LAX expansion. A number of those flights are, to varying degrees, reliant on feed. Considering the gate constraints at LAX, AA's efforts to create online feed have been somewhat inadequate. Couple this with the soon-to-commence terminal construction project that will result in major displacement, AA will (likely) be fairly static with its LAX schedule over the near term. Thus, having the ability to (re)attract a portion of another carriers' LAX patronage may assist matters.

Also, I found it interesting - though unsurprising - that UA reasserted itself on LAX secondary/tertiary PNW markets as the AA-AS relationship rolled back. It'll be interesting to watch if the re-engagement helps solidify the AA presence on those routes.

Even more broadly, the regional scope of this renewed alliance helps AA by not becoming overwhelmed by having many strategic fronts. With AA having to renew a focus on MIA (and South America), perhaps BOS, expansion in CLT - all in addition to having to closely monitor China/HKG, and the new European summer skeds....just an extremely busy 2020 strategically.

In a sense, it should be a nice respite to be able to dial back on crafting internal strategy & expending resources out west over the short term.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:08 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
JBoy wrote:
Pardon if already mentioned. This deal may make it easier for AA to get the A319's from AS?

No. I believe most of those are leased. Even if they are not, the answer is still no.

AA has had discussions with AS and the leasing companies to get the AS A319s and have kicked the tires on them
 
hiflyeras
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:16 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
AA has had discussions with AS and the leasing companies to get the AS A319s and have kicked the tires on them


Once MAX deliveries begin, those L-VX A319's will be gone lickety-split. AA is welcome to them but they won't be staying around at AS any longer than necessary.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:17 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
AA has had discussions with AS and the leasing companies to get the AS A319s and have kicked the tires on them


Once MAX deliveries begin, those L-VX A319's will be gone lickety-split. AA is welcome to them but they won't be staying around at AS any longer than necessary.

AA is replacing small RJs with bigger and bigger RJs with the A319s
 
FSDan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:18 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
This got lost up thread, but I wonder if AS will pull out of DAL and consolidate all its operations with AA at DFW?


Alternatively, maybe AS would pull out of DFW (which they only serve a few times daily from SEA/PDX) and consolidate their ops to DAL where they have more flights, relying on AA codeshares for any of their customers who prefer to fly to DFW.
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cledaybuck
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:23 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
JBoy wrote:
Pardon if already mentioned. This deal may make it easier for AA to get the A319's from AS?

No. I believe most of those are leased. Even if they are not, the answer is still no.

AA has had discussions with AS and the leasing companies to get the AS A319s and have kicked the tires on them

That may be true, but this deal doesn’t change anything about acquiring aircraft.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
subramak1
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:44 pm

rentonview wrote:
voxkel wrote:
behramjee wrote:
Just in case anyone is wondering about the p2p demand between Seattle and India, it is as follows over the past year:

*Round trip pax*

DEL - 59,000
HYD - 38,000
BOM - 37,000
BLR - 36,000
MAA - 27,000

Yes HYD has more p2p demand from SEA than BLR, but the latter's yields are about 12% higher. Plus BLR has more overall demand to feeder cities in USA versus HYD.


If I recall correctly DEL and HYD are the two biggest markets by PDEW from both SEA and DFW. In fact, DFW-HYD is one of the most underserved markets between India-US overall! This SEA flight will really only be an efficient routing from the west coast and I personally only see SAN as a big source of connecting traffic. SFO and LAX have the ME3 flights, and east of there you will be backtracking. With the inevitable announcement of UA SFO-BLR (the biggest unserved US-India market iirc) the viability of this AA flight does not add up.

I still think AA would have been better off just doing DFW-DEL. They can get significant connections from Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix and SoCal as DFW is positioned in between them and India. I would imagine AA corporate contracts in DFW and AUS would be a lot more prominent that in SEA. Not to mention, the gulf states are among the fastest growing in terms of Indian-born population.


Sounds like you really want a DFW to India flight, but SEA-BLR does make sense due to the partnership with AS. Any US company that can route their employees on a shorter flight on US airlines will likely do so, and note that routings like SFO/LAX-DXB-BLR are 1,000 miles longer than SFO/LAX-SEA-BLR. Plus, there are other tech-centric cities east of the Pacific coast that will still benefit from a one-stop in SEA over two stops. Examples: DEN-SEA-BLR and SLC-SEA-BLR will be faster than any 2-stop options. Even cities further east, like MCI or even (gasp!) DFW could work. People traveling from such places aren't going to be charting their course to obsess over backtracking over the continental US for a few hundred miles, especially if it saves them a stop in DEL or a much longer routing through Europe.Again, this route is all about getting business fliers to BLR in the most efficient manner.


Thinking aloud here. I suspect this flight will leave late in the evening from SEA and BLR around mid night. It will leave BLR around 2 and reach SEA around 6 am. early i Like the UA SFO DEL SFO service, it will fly eastbound both directions. A concept started by SIA for their SIN EWR flights is now becoming the standard option for west coast to India flights. I suspect if this successful, there could be a B788 from SEA to DEL by AA.

KK
 
winginit
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:03 am

SATexan wrote:
It is rather amusing to see people here believe that AA pulled BLR out of no where. If you watched Vasu Raja's presentation he clearly states that "The Highest growth rate market for our customers is Bangalore. Together with JL, BA and AA, we will be the most important network to the US corporate customer (flying in to Bangalore)". It is therefore clear that AA has locked up some key contracts and has done sufficient homework with alliance partners before starting this flight.


Locked up key contracts? What are you talking about? That's not how corporate contracting works in commercial aviation. It's not a secret specifically which corporate customers have notable business to BLR. It's Intel, Accenture, Target, Amazon, EY, Wal-Mart, and a few other massive names and the top origin isn't SEA but instead much more so the Bay Area.

These companies are so large that it's not as though AA came to them and said "Hey, we're going to launch BLR but only if you commit to exclusively flying us over SEA as opposed to connecting on someone else, will you do that? You pinky promise?" Those companies are preferred with all of the US3 already and have their choice between the three when it comes to corporate travel.

Will AA secure corporate business with SEA-BLR? Of course! Lots of it, and a good chunk if not a vast majority of the sizable local market, but it's by no means a given or any sort of contractual guarantee that they'll be able to easily steal the business from current flows over SIN, DEL and HKG.
 
rentonview
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Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 2:22 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:12 am

RWA380 wrote:
rentonview wrote:
wingman wrote:
I'm pretty excited about this as an AS flyer but agree with many that SEA is a hellhole. For selfish reasons I hope AA launches 5-10 rotes from PDX with their smaller widebodies to test the viability of using this as a new West Coast gateway to Asia and Europe. They can leave LHR to BA but certainly flights to Germany and possibly CDG would have potential..Germany would seem to be a lock with Adidas in town. On the plus side it's such a great terminal with solid AS feeder traffic and virtually zero long haul Int'l presence. Point to point to One World hubs seems worthy of an attempt. Japan, Korea, China, India and Germany seem to me they'd be viable with 788s or 332s.


Yeah, wait until your dreams come true with PDX service in a very short timeframe, then you'll see what happens when it runs out of gates. D'oh!


Fortunately the Port of Portland is proactive about new service, PDX is in the midst of gate increases & extra terminal space, with a new Concourse B & E. Our FIS has 5 gates, none of which have been full at the same time, since the DL hub days of the 90's. This next Summer DL will have 3 gates for HND, LHR & AMS, in addition BA to LHR, DE to FRA & FI to KEF. Y4 is at night & AS PVR, SJD flights are also evening arrivals. This may be the first year in decades, where D will be fully used up during the mid-day exchange.


It certainly helps that PDX overbuilt in the '90s for DL!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:33 am

Ishrion wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
This got lost up thread, but I wonder if AS will pull out of DAL and consolidate all its operations with AA at DFW?


Probably a really stupid question - is Alaska allowed to give its gates at DAL to American?


They already belong to AA. AA was forced to lease them to another carrier - which ended up being VX - as a condition of the merger with US. AS inherited the leases when acquiring VX. It’s a ten year lease that I believe ends in 2023 or 2024.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
hohd
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:05 am

Adipocere wrote:
I am shocked at what happened on the India side. I can’t think of any other major airline that flies to BLR that already doesn’t fly to BOM and DEL. It’s shocking that AA bypassed India’s Tier 1 cities in DEL, BOM, CCU and MAA and went straight to BLR. MAA is southern India’s premier gateway city and has been shockingly bypassed. I hope AA knows it’s geography with this plan..


BLR is a Tier 1 city well AHEAD of MAA and far ahead of CCU (even HYD is ahead of CCU). BLR is a premium heavy yield city which MAA is lacking. Have you ever been to BLR ? The premier gateway city in southern India is BLR, not MAA, BLR has surpassed MAA almost a decade ago and CCU even before that.
 
MareBorealis
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:11 am

American 767 wrote:

Another thing is, now that AS joining One World is official, AY could open a nonstop route from HEL to SEA. This route would get a lot of feed from AS flights in SEA, it's something AY should now consider.


Would be cool to see Finnair back in SEA, a seasonal service could work, having a feeder and supported by the Atlantic Joint Venture. They used to fly HEL-SEA-LAX in the late 1980s with DC-10, HEL-SEA was my very first scheduled long haul flight.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:08 am

Vasu Raja is from India. He is super smart. He knows what he's doing.
 
Ishrion
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:23 am

According to BLR Airport's Twitter, SEA-BLR begins October 20.

Honestly expected October 25 given both LAX-CHC and DFW-AKL begin that day.

https://twitter.com/BLRAirport/status/1 ... 4934102016
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:31 am

On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.
 
sxf24
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:34 am

TYWoolman wrote:
On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.


I think oneworld is the right choice for SEA and the west coast. Between BA, CX, JL and QF there’s a long history and strong network. Star is better to Asia, though not an option for AS.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:40 am

Will AS be able to keep partnerships with non-One-World airline partners?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:41 am

sxf24 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.


I think oneworld is the right choice for SEA and the west coast. Between BA, CX, JL and QF there’s a long history and strong network. Star is better to Asia, though not an option for AS.


But a Delta-Alaska alliance back in the day would have right-sized the supply and demand in Seattle. With Delta's ambitions and the new Alaska-American alliance, Alaska may find its margins in a perpetual attack there in the long-run. Competition is good, but again, Alaska finds itself needing an alliance in Seattle, even after they spent a billion or two on Virgin America.
 
9w748capt
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:45 am

SATexan wrote:
It is rather amusing to see people here believe that AA pulled BLR out of no where. If you watched Vasu Raja's presentation he clearly states that "The Highest growth rate market for our customers is Bangalore. Together with JL, BA and AA, we will be the most important network to the US corporate customer (flying in to Bangalore)". It is therefore clear that AA has locked up some key contracts and has done sufficient homework with alliance partners before starting this flight.

SQ, QR and CX are less than ideal options for SEA-BLR and much of West Coast / Mountain West -India except may be for LAX and SFO. JL hasn't started BLR yet. Premium classes to BLR on LH and BA are often sold out leaving many corporate travellers with the option of flying in to BOM or DEL. I have done it in the past. When AA flew ORD-DEL, the arrival times in DEL were not conducive for connections to BLR and hence I would book DEL-BLR on a seperate ticket. Even the current timings of UA's EWR-BOM/DEL are not very convenient for connections to BLR. In my opinion, the O&D numbers to DEL are a bit inflated and to BLR is deflated. I fully expect this non stop to significantly stimulate the SEA-BLR O&D numbers.

Further, if you have actually worked with H1B techies, then you'd know that when their Visa "stamp" has expired, EU carriers such as BA and LH are NOT travel options. Many techies go to India for getting their Visas stamped & hence they are forced to use the ME3. A nonstop will makes their lives more convenient. Even though the airports in BOM and DEL are really nice, connecting in India is still a hassle. Besides ,there are misgivings about the conduct Customs officials in DEL and BOM. Most techies from India are from the South - Hyderabad, Bangalore, Chennai and surrounding areas. You can add 10 flights to DEL and BOM and they will still try to avoid those airports.


Excellent post and you make the points perfectly.

Not surprised about the usual ignorance regarding BLR - this is a.net after all. The knowledge/quality of posts here has never been worse IMO.

Clearly Vasu and AA are confident that AA will fill the J cabin SEA-BLR. PDEW doesn't mean squat when evaluating a route like this IMO. Sure DEL and BOM have more passengers, but will they have more passengers who will want to fly nonstop in paid J? I have a feeling this will be the preferred option for Bay Area folks as well. SFO/SJC/OAK - SEA - BLR all on AA - that's pretty enticing.

Not to mention the carrot of earning AA and oneworld elite status which comes with excellent perks. AA's product may be trash domestically but their int'l J product is quite competitive IMO.

I wonder what the timings will be for SEA-BLR? West coast connections will be easy, but I wonder if it'll be possible for those of us in middle america to also use this flight to get to India. AS upgauged OKC-SEA to mainline recently so clearly they're doing well in markets outside their home turf.
Last edited by 9w748capt on Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
9w748capt
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:46 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Will AS be able to keep partnerships with non-One-World airline partners?


Why wouldn't they be able to? Airlines partner non-alliance partners literally all the time.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:55 am

The BLR route is excellent route planning on American's part. Likewise, I would think American's wild success on any international route out of Seattle will be short-lived when Delta is more than capable of matching it. American is clearly in retaliation mode and while they may be able to coexist with the added benefit to Delta by keeping other foreign airlines out of Seattle, any route panaceas will never be realized with Delta next door. Most international routes out of Seattle will be supported by select domestic markets where Delta will surely be able to sustain or augment a domestic presence.
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 341
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 am

TYWoolman wrote:
On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.

The big difference with this alliance is there is no demand for exclusively this time.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 360
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:01 am

Aliqiout wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.

The big difference with this alliance is there is no demand for exclusively this time.


Well over time I suspect there will be exclusivity within the OneWorld alliance. This could have been easily negotiated with SkyTeam partners as well back in the day. Delta would not have been that arrogant not to include SkyTeam members in any exclusivity deal.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 341
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:08 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Aliqiout wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
On the flip side: While Delta may have underestimated the strength of Alaska, Alaska most certainly underestimated the direction of the industry and itself in it. I find it ironic that, to my understanding, shunning Delta's proposed exclusivity agreement alliance between them both (and subsequently Delta deciding to go it alone), Alaska finds itself yet again in a proposition to forge an alliance. History will tell if American is the right choice. If anything, this deal is testament to Delta's strength, tenacity and inroad into the Seattle market. I think it will coexist nicely there.

The big difference with this alliance is there is no demand for exclusively this time.


We


ll over time I suspect there will be exclusivity within the OneWorld alliance. This could have been easily negotiated with SkyTeam partners as well back in the day. Delta would not have been that arrogant not to include SkyTeam members in any exclusivity deal.


There isn't much exclusivity between the existing OneWorld alliance now, why do think that will change.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 360
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:12 am

I predict three scenarios:
1) Alaska-American alliance is a success and keeps Delta amicably at bay (and Delta is ok with that.)
2) Delta and Alaska-American alliance coexist, but is an archival scene not like any seen before!
3) This marks the end of Alaska, American takes over, other airlines cry for divestitures, Delta gets more Seattle gate space, LLC's enter Seattle, Yields go down hill, American and Delta look at each other and question themselves.

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