TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:13 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
KlimaBXsst wrote:

Hawaiian that is a good point.

Would SkyTeam or Star Alliance be the better Alliance to join? What is the “fee” does to join an alliance? I am sure the MAIN sponsoring airline is getting some sort of compensation. Anyone have any information on this part of the equation.


Not sure about your inquiry on fees, but Delta's condition wouldn't necessarily be to join SkyTeam since Bastian has been vocal on Delta's investment strategy. And with United already at Guam, I think an easier approval is with Delta (especially since they cut back on Hawaii-Asia already.)


I think I read somewhere, Alaska had to pay a fee to Richard Branson aka the Virgin Brand until all the Virgin America aircraft were rebranded Alaska.

So naturally I am assuming there are $$$ involved


I think you are a little disconnected with your question and answer so can't respond.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:15 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.



QR can't match EK as a partner. It's a distant second.


But the synergies are there, including LATAM. Furthermore I can't remember the source, but I remember reading recently Baker was open to codesharing with Delta into Atlanta, proposing that Delta would gain to benefit as well. I think it's inevitable.
 
sully66
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:40 pm

YYZORD wrote:
How will SEA-BLR on AA affect the YVR-DEL route on AC? I'm sure many from SEA connects on that route.

Truthfully, they are two different markets. The YVR to Delhi route mostly carries people going to the Punjab. Vancouver has a higher Sikh population and this is a mostly a leisure route.
Bangalore is a fair ways away from Delhi and is , I suspect, much more business oriented route.
My thoughts anyway.
 
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spinotter
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:42 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)


That is far too many ICN flights to add before many years have elapsed, and by that time we will be in climate breakdown. Maybe one or two on your list in the next few years.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 pm

spinotter wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)


That is far too many ICN flights to add before many years have elapsed, and by that time we will be in climate breakdown. Maybe one or two on your list in the next few years.



Quite ambitious, yes. I was just trying to propose how Delta could circumvent and/or supplement the Seattle gateway strategy.
 
Atlwarrior
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:01 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Other Delta retaliation in full play here are:

Hawaiian partnership so that approval is in tandem with the American/Alaska approval process.

And the biggie of them all, the shocker will be...yes, I am going to say it, a partnership with one of the ME3's. Qatar will do quite nicely.


Exactly a Qatar Airlines hookup no longer seems impossible due to Baker’s recent statement.
 
onwFan
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:06 am

TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)

Even without this development, I think PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN were under consideration. I vaguely remember reading something on that last year. But I bet these will be at the expense of other routes. With AS in oneworld, JL will mostly launch PDX-Tokyo and benefit from having hubs at both ends. I don’t see DL holding on to it in that case. MSP-HND is a weak link and I am willing to bet it is a goner within 2 years.

As for a partnership with Hawaiian, that would be an excellent development to balance the share of Hawaii-Japan and Hawaii-US mainland traffic among the three alliances. HA could also help them in Oceania. However, I doubt if that would help them with US-Asia or their biggest conundrum that will be SEA/PDX.
 
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spinotter
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:08 am

All three of the US3 international carriers are making profits undreamed of in any former age of air travel. Why would they rock the boat? Small adventures like LA to DL or SEA-BLR to AA? Fine. That is minor detail in international travel. Maybe in the future someone will come to really shake things up?
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 am

onwFan wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)

Even without this development, I think PDX-ICN and SLC-ICN were under consideration. I vaguely remember reading something on that last year. But I bet these will be at the expense of other routes. With AS in oneworld, JL will mostly launch PDX-Tokyo and benefit from having hubs at both ends. I don’t see DL holding on to it in that case. MSP-HND is a weak link and I am willing to bet it is a goner within 2 years.

As for a partnership with Hawaiian, that would be an excellent development to balance the share of Hawaii-Japan and Hawaii-US mainland traffic among the three alliances. HA could also help them in Oceania. However, I doubt if that would help them with US-Asia or their biggest conundrum that will be SEA/PDX.


As you mentioned Hawaiian Airlines would not be Delta's answer for Asia replacing Seattle, but, yes, Oceania access would greatly be improved (and a good tie-in to Delta Vacations etc...). But I believe any Delta answer will not involve giving up on Seattle altogether, as that would be counterintuitive at this point if Delta's goal is to remain competitive with Alaska/American and relevant on the West Coast. But unless Delta magically expands Seattle airport on its own, Delta's dream of being the de facto global force in Seattle has gone south (but not a retreat back to the Deep South!) Sure is a smart move on American's part, taking away some of that Delta cake!
 
cschleic
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:53 am

TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)


All this talk of retaliation, I'm still puzzled by it.

As for DL and SEA...remember that the primary reason was to shift the Asian hub from Tokyo to Seattle. You're suggesting moving flights such as to Seoul to other airports to free up space for new domestic-only flights to Seattle, but those flights still will have some passengers wanting to connect to a Seoul flight that doesn't exist anymore. And DL would have to start a bunch of flights to PDX and SJC and SAN for connecting passengers. PDX maybe since it's closer to Asia. California cities add a bunch of travel time. And it would have to be a lot of Asian flights from those cities to make the domestic connection routes work, which would cut into Seattle traffic on the existing domestic flights which...... DL has chosen Seattle as an Asian hub. They either stick with it, despite choosing a space-constrained facility, or move somewhere else. It's not like AA will add a lot of SEA flights. They don't need to and there isn't room anyway.
 
BigGSFO
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:57 am

I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).
 
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gunsontheroof
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:57 am

Airbus747 wrote:
Could someone please explain to a European (who rarely travels to America) why this news is significant, unexpected... "awesome"?


In brief, because SEA is already playing host to two hubs with AS/DL (which is already surprising for a mid-sized market) and AA has been an afterthought in the SEA market for as long as I can remember. Having them re-enter the international market from SEA, particularly for a destination like BLR is not something any of us saw coming. For that matter, AS has been extremely reluctant to align with any of the major airline alliances since they emerged in the late 1990s, preferring to arrange partnerships/codeshares independently. Seeing them finally take the plunge is a surprise, though if I'd had to guess where they'd land, it would have been Oneworld. I'm sure other more knowledgeable members can expound on this, that's just my quick take as to why this is a bit of a shocker, particularly if you live in the SEA market.
Picked a hell of a week to quit sniffing glue.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:00 am

cschleic wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
DL retaliation may include something to ease the domestic connection reliance at Seattle (thus opening more gate space for new O&D cities from Seattle) by launching:

Portland - Seoul
San Jose - Seoul
San Diego - Seoul

Salt Lake City - Seoul
Anchorage - Seoul (cargo emphasis, too)


All this talk of retaliation, I'm still puzzled by it.

As for DL and SEA...remember that the primary reason was to shift the Asian hub from Tokyo to Seattle. You're suggesting moving flights such as to Seoul to other airports to free up space for new domestic-only flights to Seattle, but those flights still will have some passengers wanting to connect to a Seoul flight that doesn't exist anymore. And DL would have to start a bunch of flights to PDX and SJC and SAN for connecting passengers. PDX maybe since it's closer to Asia. California cities add a bunch of travel time. And it would have to be a lot of Asian flights from those cities to make the domestic connection routes work, which would cut into Seattle traffic on the existing domestic flights which...... DL has chosen Seattle as an Asian hub. They either stick with it, despite choosing a space-constrained facility, or move somewhere else. It's not like AA will add a lot of SEA flights. They don't need to and there isn't room anyway.


Yeah, that strategy is all over the place. But... it would keep Delta right-sized-relevant only to the top Asian destinations from Seattle while at same time offering the largest cities on West Coast one-stop access to 80 destinations thru Seoul. The Alaska-American strategy would be relegated only to Seattle and LAX whereby any diversions from that plan de-values/spreads thin the alliance plan. And half-serious: as far as domestic feed from those West Coast cities, I can think of one airline in those cities that would love access to Asia.
 
UALFAson
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:08 am

Dieuwer wrote:
UALFAson wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
No, UA is the biggest loser.
Because AA+AS and DL can now supply corp contracts with flights to tech and financial centers over SEA instead of SFO. Not to mention SEA - Asia is shorter than SFO - Asia. I can see Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc. all flock to AA/AS or DL instead of UA.
Add to this the horrible presence of UA at the East Coast (EWR = junk), UA is screwed. Unless they come up quickly with a master stroke.


This post is so laughable I almost didn't bother responding to it.

UA has a HUGE ff base in the Bay Area and the tech companies. Why are they suddenly going to abandon UA and nonstop SIN and TLV and soon-to-be DUB flights to make a 2- or 3-stop connection to those cities via AA or DL? Not to mention all the U.S. cities that are a 1-stop flight away from SFO the same as SEA?

And say what you will about EWR as an airport and delays, but UA's hub there is simply unmatched by any other carrier at any other NYC-area airport, with UA and *A partners soon to offer service to all 5 continents/regions, including extensive East Asia nonstop service (at least prior to the coronavirus) not offered by AA or DL.

I don't know what UA did to you to tick you off, but before you make ridiculous posts like this on here, you should really check your bias.


"UALFAson"... look in the mirror if you talk about bias. :roll:
To call EWR a "third world airport" would be an insult to 3rd world airports.

The financial boys want to fly to/from LGA. Where's UA?
The government boys want to fly/from DCA. Not slep to IAD. Where's UA?

No...time for UA to admit its snoozefest and take a hard look at B6.


Have you actually been to any of the airports or cities you're talking about? While I will allow the A gates at EWR are pretty awful, the C terminal has excellent (albeit expensive) shopping and dining options.

From LGA, UA offers frequent service to hubs in ORD, IAH, and DEN. "The financial boys" currently find LGA a mess with the construction and EWR is just as fast to get to from Midtown.

From DCA, UA also offers frequent service to hubs in ORD, IAH, and DEN, along with a SFO nonstop. They are also starting shuttle service to EWR with CRJ-550 aircraft. I am from Northern Virginia. Plenty of people "schlep" out to IAD for transcon and international flights. For my brother, who lives in the western NoVa suburbs and travels with his job with the government, it's not a schlep at all. Again, your opinions of things do not make them facts or true of everyone else.

Anyway, this thread is about AA and AS, not UA.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
dfw88
Posts: 91
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:16 am

NYCAAer wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Vasu is a rising star and beloved by the employees. It refreshing to have someone who knows what they are doing and not afraid to take on other airlines. It’s just simply amazing the amount of Delta fanboys. Lots of biased posters on here. I think Vasu is a lot smarter than posters on a message board who aren’t airline executives.


Not necessarily. He’s not well-liked at any of the bases where he has cut back flying, and/or failed with so many routes like ORD-DEL, ORD-DME, etc. Not everyone is a Kool-Aid drinker, and most see him as part of the overall Parker mess even though he came from L-AA.


I'm sure there are AA employees that don't like him, but everyone that I've spoken to does. He's has some missteps, but overall most employees I know think that he's doing a great job. Lots of employees are always going to be upset when their pet routes are cut, but shameless attachment to failing routes that "we've always flown" is the sort of thing that will sink an airline. I think that's one of Vasu's best qualities: he's not afraid to stray from the way AA has always done things, as evidenced by this SEA announcement. To be fair, that could also prove to be his downfall one day, but so far so good, at least according to all the employees I know. Time will tell, as they say.
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:32 am

hiflyeras wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
The war at SEA between AS and DL likely means SJC is hosed on both ends. Doubtful we will see much more build up at SJC by AS, as they will put more resources into SEA, as is likely for DL. Unless DL decides to farm SJC instead of building up SEA, I’d bet all resources at AS, DL, and even AA will be going into SEA.


Remember that years back AA made a go at a SJC focus city or whatever they called it back then. It's definitely an AS focus city today...and if AA decides to bring back some love to SJC it could be a big OW operation between the two.


AA bought AirCal, and turned SJC into a full fledged, banked hub for a few years along with RDU and BNA. AA has maintained some presence at SJC, but nothing really big. I doubt AA would do anything significant at SJC with their building up at SEA and a large presence at LAX.
 
AirFiero
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:39 am

tphuang wrote:
If DL wants to retaliate, it can add DFW-BOS/SEA, LAX-CLT/ORD. I don't know if there is an obvious partner they can get at the moment which would help them significantly.

SJC will not be forgotten here. I think with this partnership, AA/AS will do some methodical growth in Bay Area and it won't be all at SFO. AA has already added SJC-AUS. So it clearly is interested in the tech money. AA/AS partnering up is bad news to the 2 strongest carriers in California: UA and WN.


And we are STILL waiting to see anything of significance from DL at SJC. With the SEA war, I’d bet DL has their attention up there, not at SJC. I doubt they have or would use the resources at SJC and SEA.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:48 am

AirFiero wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If DL wants to retaliate, it can add DFW-BOS/SEA, LAX-CLT/ORD. I don't know if there is an obvious partner they can get at the moment which would help them significantly.

SJC will not be forgotten here. I think with this partnership, AA/AS will do some methodical growth in Bay Area and it won't be all at SFO. AA has already added SJC-AUS. So it clearly is interested in the tech money. AA/AS partnering up is bad news to the 2 strongest carriers in California: UA and WN.


And we are STILL waiting to see anything of significance from DL at SJC. With the SEA war, I’d bet DL has their attention up there, not at SJC. I doubt they have or would use the resources at SJC and SEA.


I think Delta's strategy in announcing focus cities in Nashville, Austin (close to DFW) and San Jose (and RDU for that matter) was to strategize a plan in the face of former American strongholds. Plus it would fill out the route map a bit. Not sure Delta's sense in announcing that coastal focus cities are now done and now will go to fill out the hubs. Now that American is announcing the opposite, now more than ever will attention need to be on Seattle, Boston and Miami!
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:58 am

About mainline and non-mainline

A mainline airline has a certificate and operates any type of equipment be it Turboprop or Turbofan! Porter Airline’s is an airline... we do not call it mainline because they do not “outsource” to another airline carrier to operate flights in their color scheme.

An outsourced airline would be the “non-mainline” operator, and these entities that are outsource typically operation regional type airliners.

If turboprop airline Porter contracted Compass to fly Embraer 175s, Porter for example would still be the “mainline carrrier.”

Hope everyone is on the same page. Yes the certificates airline JetBlue has a bigger fleet than the certificated airline Alaska. However the Airline business operation of Alaska Air Group is bigger than JetBlue Corporation.

Southwest for example is an airline! We do NOT call Southwest a mainline airline cause it does contract another airline company upon Southwest’s behalf.


Southwest and JetBlue do NOT operate regional airline equipment. Alaska Airlines does not either. Alaska Air Group does source flying from other “non mainline” companies.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:08 am

TYWoolman wrote:
The Alaska-American strategy would be relegated only to Seattle and LAX whereby any diversions from that plan de-values/spreads thin the alliance plan.

What point are you even making right now? Alaska joins Oneworld just to be locked into AA TPAC flights only when JAL and CX fly to Asia from nearly every major West Coast city?
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 384
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:39 am

JAMBOJET wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
The Alaska-American strategy would be relegated only to Seattle and LAX whereby any diversions from that plan de-values/spreads thin the alliance plan.

What point are you even making right now? Alaska joins Oneworld just to be locked into AA TPAC flights only when JAL and CX fly to Asia from nearly every major West Coast city?


I was referencing my earlier post on a possible Delta "retaliation" on the Alaska-American alliance where I proposed a "what if" Delta to start Seoul service from a few major West Coast cities. The strategy behind that would be to offer U.S. point of sale/U.S. carrier service one-stop connection to Asia from cities that would normally feed Seattle international flying. In a nutshell, if that strategy proves successful then American/Alaska would be marginalized and/or forced to rely more heavily on their international partners to serve those one-stop connections from those same West Coast cities, which would then undermine the LAX/SEA international rationale of their alliance.
 
strfyr51
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:12 am

TYWoolman wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
While this shows a good strategic move by American given the current airline domestic landscape, it also show its desperation. If this partnership fails, American will be stuck not having had invested its own resources making it fall further behind. For this partnership to truly be accretive to American, Alaska will have to fold into it at some point IMO. A successful international network out of Seattle without you owning the foundation will end up scaring shareholders in the long run. But if strategic partnerships like this is the next trend given the dwindling number of carriers in the U.S., then American made the first move. Others will probably follow: JetBlue/United, Delta/Southwest. An interesting concept at least.


Delta/Southwest? Where do people get this stuff.

Anyways...I’m not a huge fan of AA. I’ve never had major issues on them but their customer service has always been apathetic and even unnecessarily combative. Although, recently I had very friendly reps at an Admirals Club in ORD. But this does bring back some of the connectivity Alaska and Mileage Plan was losing over the last few years. Seems like an all around win if Alaska keeps the mileage earn the same.


Ok, Delta/Southwest might be a stretch of my imagination. Alaska and JetBlue have more niche networks that can fill strategic holes, unlike Southwest can. But hey, a case can be made for any and every alliance, not excluding Southwest, not excluding Delta, not excluding anyone, whether that is codesharing, reciprocal frequent flyer benefits or just city-specific. With Delta weak in Texas and Southwest strong in Dallas Love Field and Houston...one hand can wash the other, if American gets too bold.

WN(Southwest) Would have to change their entire operating philosophy as they rarely if Ever interline. (I don't think they did unless it was AirTran) And? even that was a stretch for them. While I'm sure they Could if the deal was right for them.
 
sxf24
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:16 am

TYWoolman wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
The Alaska-American strategy would be relegated only to Seattle and LAX whereby any diversions from that plan de-values/spreads thin the alliance plan.

What point are you even making right now? Alaska joins Oneworld just to be locked into AA TPAC flights only when JAL and CX fly to Asia from nearly every major West Coast city?


I was referencing my earlier post on a possible Delta "retaliation" on the Alaska-American alliance where I proposed a "what if" Delta to start Seoul service from a few major West Coast cities. The strategy behind that would be to offer U.S. point of sale/U.S. carrier service one-stop connection to Asia from cities that would normally feed Seattle international flying. In a nutshell, if that strategy proves successful then American/Alaska would be marginalized and/or forced to rely more heavily on their international partners to serve those one-stop connections from those same West Coast cities, which would then undermine the LAX/SEA international rationale of their alliance.


I get it. Chasing connecting traffic from smaller markets to spite the larger market that actually proves demand. Very smart.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 720
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:11 am

Too bad regional airline outsourcing caught on, but this was pretty much a method of survival for airlines after deregulation.

Unfortunately this “B-Scale” airline pay grade existence has spread, and even this pay degradation was tried at “American mainline,” although I don’t recall A-scale and B-scale lasting too long.

http://www.gcmap.com/featured/20180322
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
dc10lover
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:36 am

I remember AA said years ago if they get the HongKong Route, AA was going to make a hub in Seattle.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/new codeshare with AS and LHR and India

Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:54 am

boeing773er wrote:
W.t.f.

I hate to say airlines act on feelings, because I like to think they put their shareholders above that. But this just feels like straight retaliation against DL for the LATAM deal.


LOL share holders how about there business in general and employees> and yes of course shareholders...
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:05 am

VTCIE wrote:
Absolutely out of the blue here from AA, AS and Oneworld. To launch flights to BLR, the one Indian destination that has been absolutely begging for direct service to the US, is a killer move, and to do this from the hub of frenemy Alaska Airlines to form a united front against Delta at SEA is simply unbelievable.

Also unbelievable is the huge blindside that Alaska will join Oneworld. Clearly this is retaliation from losing Latin America and LATAM to Delta, and now American and Alaska, both being Oneworld members (and the latter already partnering with AY, CX, JAL and others), can have a potential stranglehold at SEA in the northwest to make up for the partial loss of MIA in the southeast.



I really doubt there is some silly playground like retaliation going on, the PNW is and has been a big hole for AA for awhile (god knows I've been saying it) AS figuring out what there going to look like post Virgin America plan b imop is to join OW. A win for both and AS doens't have to worry about AA backstabbing them since they won't have that much feed in and out of SEA like DL did and now does.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:35 am

NameOmitted wrote:
axiom wrote:
Sightseer wrote:
Like many others, I had to double-check to be sure it wasn't April Fool's, especially regarding SEA-BLR. I know it's been talked about a lot on a-net but have never seen any O&D numbers. My guess is they're banking on connections from AS, but that leads me to ... see



Exactly what I was thinking as well.


Make that three of us. What changed?

Presidential administrations, for one.


AS plan of being a national carrier appears to be on hold and they have retrenched to back to a west coast carrier and with the partnership with AA that was widening with AS plans now changing AA and AS can grow there relationship with OW giving AA the PNW option they were lacking and AS help in Defending SEA and the west coast from DL.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:41 am

RvA wrote:
I like the “This is retaliation for X” comments. This isn’t a game, retaliation isn’t the right word. They see an opportunity, have a strategy in place and just moved to execution. This isn’t being done because of LA/DL or anybody else. This may have well been on the cards anyway. This is being done because they see a business opportunity plain and simple.



I so agree with you some of the comments are fascinating to me how simple and emotional people see business operating.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 56
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:07 am

questions wrote:
AA and AS are currently co-located at SFO in T2. It was my understanding that AA was going to move to the new portion of T1. I wonder if AA and AS will remain in T2 or co-locate in T1.

AS is taking over entire T2(eventually). T1 does not have enough space for it.
 
SEAflyer97
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed May 09, 2018 9:10 am

Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:14 am

BigGSFO wrote:
I'm wondering if we will see AA's premium Airbuses SEA-JFK (the same ones used for LAX/SFO-JFK).

They already cut SEA-JFK
 
CV880
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:17 am

DL should make SJC a competing hub & align w HA as well. DL&NW as separate entities ground handled HA @ SFO for over 20yrs & also does maintenace on their A330's. Use HA for Hawaii & South Pacific from SJC & SFO & reinstate some of AA's abandoned TPAC routes from SJC. Getting to SFO from the South Bay is a PITA & SJC is fog free.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:48 am

mpdpilot wrote:
enilria wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I thought it was April Fool's Day for a moment. Wow. Just wow. I literally almost just s**t my pants on the Metro reading this right now.



Also while a big win for both AS and AA if it works, it does make them both look very desperate. Bold moves that limit competition don't typically solve those types of problems.



competitive and Smart.... lol It's not a JV its Just like NW and DL were years ago
 
grbauc
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:28 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The battle for Seattle is officially on as DL desires a large long haul hub from there. I’m more surprised that AS is becoming a full member.



I think with Korean and DL JV SEA plans are not has needed has they once were. DL plans for SEA will imop scale down a fair bit if the economy or flights to the region suffer..
 
sand26391
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:02 am

I am actually curious..... what could be the timings of this BLR-SEA flight at SEA... for easier connections at SEA.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AA to make SEA an INT hub/launches SEA-BLR in Oct 20/AS to join OneWorld

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:16 pm

grbauc wrote:
RvA wrote:
I like the “This is retaliation for X” comments. This isn’t a game, retaliation isn’t the right word. They see an opportunity, have a strategy in place and just moved to execution. This isn’t being done because of LA/DL or anybody else. This may have well been on the cards anyway. This is being done because they see a business opportunity plain and simple.



I so agree with you some of the comments are fascinating to me how simple and emotional people see business operating.


Well think of it this way: While "retaliation" is a strong word it is within the context I or others have used it that matter.
Retaliation=Competitive response to a new competitive landscape that seeks to strengthen business operations.

Therefore, retaliation is what drives this industry for sure. A million examples could follow, but I wish I can say it in one word. Well, I think I just did!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:40 pm

One of the world's largest airline in the world's largest aviation market in one of the largest countries by area opens a virtual hub with two flights, and community going nuts. Some surprised and some talking about retaliation.

The total number of hubs and how territorial US3 is a pity.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:16 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:

Delta/Southwest? Where do people get this stuff.

Anyways...I’m not a huge fan of AA. I’ve never had major issues on them but their customer service has always been apathetic and even unnecessarily combative. Although, recently I had very friendly reps at an Admirals Club in ORD. But this does bring back some of the connectivity Alaska and Mileage Plan was losing over the last few years. Seems like an all around win if Alaska keeps the mileage earn the same.


Ok, Delta/Southwest might be a stretch of my imagination. Alaska and JetBlue have more niche networks that can fill strategic holes, unlike Southwest can. But hey, a case can be made for any and every alliance, not excluding Southwest, not excluding Delta, not excluding anyone, whether that is codesharing, reciprocal frequent flyer benefits or just city-specific. With Delta weak in Texas and Southwest strong in Dallas Love Field and Houston...one hand can wash the other, if American gets too bold.

WN(Southwest) Would have to change their entire operating philosophy as they rarely if Ever interline. (I don't think they did unless it was AirTran) And? even that was a stretch for them. While I'm sure they Could if the deal was right for them.


I always thought Delta could use Southwest to support international P2P flying, without the need for Southwest changing their business model. Afterall, Southwest fills the southern mid-section west of Mississippi well where Delta is weak. Much the case in principle for the Alaska-American partnership.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:18 pm

Duplicate
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:23 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I always thought Delta could use Southwest to support international P2P flying, without the need for Southwest changing their business model


How would that work without interlining tickets or bags, which does, in fact, change their business model quite a bit?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:39 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I always thought Delta could use Southwest to support international P2P flying, without the need for Southwest changing their business model


How would that work without interlining tickets or bags, which does, in fact, change their business model quite a bit?


That would change the model in that regard, you are correct in that correction. But couldn't Delta migrate that know-how and technology over to them? Including new door-to- destination bag pick-up?
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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N776AU
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:43 pm

❤️?
Image
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:47 pm

N776AU wrote:
❤️?
Image


Nice title size. Looks great.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:18 pm

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/new ... e-and.html

Interesting article from 2016. And why I think Southwest could eventually get in on new developments.
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7205
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AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:26 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/08/11/why-southwest-airlines-is-warming-to-codeshare-and.html

Interesting article from 2016. And why I think Southwest could eventually get in on new developments.


But why would WN want to help DL? Doubtful WN is going to change their business model to suit DL. If WN changes their business model it will be to the benefit of WN, not to help DL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:36 pm

Duplicate
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TYWoolman
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:37 pm

Duplicate
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 384
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:38 pm

chepos wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/08/11/why-southwest-airlines-is-warming-to-codeshare-and.html

Interesting article from 2016. And why I think Southwest could eventually get in on new developments.


But why would WN want to help DL? Doubtful WN is going to change their business model to suit DL. If WN changes their business model it will be to the benefit of WN, not to help DL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well Southwest is strong southern half of U.S. west of MI where Delta is weak, such as Texas, where American is strong. And Southwest strong in West where Alaska-American touting benefits. This alliance changes the dynamic for Southwest as much as it does Delta, especially when Southwest wants more international flow.
Last edited by TYWoolman on Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1446
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:00 pm

So happy that AA is attempting to grow with AS. People will be very happy about the FF arrangement being reinstated. SEA-BLR is a very important market, and I just don’t see why they wouldn’t fly it. It’s not just SEA tech firms that fly there but also a number of ones based in the Bay Area. As an aside, I don’t get why AI hasn’t tried coming into SEA. There’s lots of opportunity with their connectivity from DEL.
 
Boof02671
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Re: AS to join OneWorld / AA to make SEA an Intl gateway

Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:01 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2016/08/11/why-southwest-airlines-is-warming-to-codeshare-and.html

Interesting article from 2016. And why I think Southwest could eventually get in on new developments.

And yet this is how that article ends
“ A Southwest spokesman said of Watterson's memo and its reason for being: "Nothing has changed with interline/codeshare. The memo you reference is part of a series of internal, educational communications covering a variety of industry-related topics."

Last year, Southwest management found itself in a standoff with Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association after the group discovered that the airline was quietly trying to orchestrate a passenger reaccommodation agreement with JetBlue (NASDAQ: JBLU) despite the absence of provisions for such a deal in Southwest's contract with pilots. A deal with JetBlue was scrapped in the wake of the pilot protest.”

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