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seb146
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Posts: 21480
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:10 am

I don't know if this would belong in Civil or Tech/Ops. There are many layers to this question. Back in the day, we had props serving low volume airports. I am most familiar with Horizon and Cascade. Horizon used Fokker F-27 and Metro III and eventually the Dash 8-100 to serve communities like Moses Lake, Pendletion, Klamath Falls, and North Bend several times a day to either Portland or Seattle. Cascade used Beech 99 for Olympia, Moses Lake, Pt Angeles and other small communities around Washington to Seattle. Now, it seems, if an airport has service at all, it is once a day small jet to a completely different hub. Will airlines ever find a small (maybe prop) airplane to serve these smaller communities?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Alphabeta
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:24 am

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:55 am

Have a look at all the Moxy/Breeze posts. They seem to be going after some very thin routes wiyh low frequency with very cheap jets. Like Allegiant but with smaller jets.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:42 am

Alphabeta wrote:
Have a look at all the Moxy/Breeze posts. They seem to be going after some very thin routes wiyh low frequency with very cheap jets. Like Allegiant but with smaller jets.


Breeze 195's are not small jets
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:44 am

seb146 wrote:
I don't know if this would belong in Civil or Tech/Ops. There are many layers to this question. Back in the day, we had props serving low volume airports. I am most familiar with Horizon and Cascade. Horizon used Fokker F-27 and Metro III and eventually the Dash 8-100 to serve communities like Moses Lake, Pendletion, Klamath Falls, and North Bend several times a day to either Portland or Seattle. Cascade used Beech 99 for Olympia, Moses Lake, Pt Angeles and other small communities around Washington to Seattle. Now, it seems, if an airport has service at all, it is once a day small jet to a completely different hub. Will airlines ever find a small (maybe prop) airplane to serve these smaller communities?


FEDS killed the market for small 15 - 19 seat turboprops ... not happening
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6630
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:35 am

I doubt it. If you're going to pay a pilot decent wages that pilot may as well be flying a 64/70/76 seat jet, not a prop. Flying isn't as convenient as it used to be, either. High load factors (and fees) killed standby. High change fees or nonrefundable/ nonchangeable basic economy tickets. Lengthy security waits. If you can drive it in four hours or less, just drive.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:07 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
I doubt it. If you're going to pay a pilot decent wages that pilot may as well be flying a 64/70/76 seat jet, not a prop. Flying isn't as convenient as it used to be, either. High load factors (and fees) killed standby. High change fees or nonrefundable/ nonchangeable basic economy tickets. Lengthy security waits. If you can drive it in four hours or less, just drive.


Well lengthy security waits are/were pretty much non-existent at the locations mentioned ( after they became necessary). One plus from flying from small places is I would rather go thru TSA in Laramie, WY than DEN.

As for Cascade Airways, they never served Port Angeles.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
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seb146
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:39 pm

I thought, for some reason, Cascade served Pt Angeles. I am pretty sure Horizon did. All my old timetables are buried in the closet somewhere and I don't have the motivation to research it old school.

I knew there would be many different points for this topic. Pilots, wait times for security, operating costs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:54 pm

Yes Horizon did fly there. I flew on them for a day trip on a dhc-8 on a day trip not long before they pulled out.
I miss days of many indy commuter airlines flying to out of the way, obscure to most people, places.
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6630
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:11 pm

sprxUSA wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
I doubt it. If you're going to pay a pilot decent wages that pilot may as well be flying a 64/70/76 seat jet, not a prop. Flying isn't as convenient as it used to be, either. High load factors (and fees) killed standby. High change fees or nonrefundable/ nonchangeable basic economy tickets. Lengthy security waits. If you can drive it in four hours or less, just drive.


Well lengthy security waits are/were pretty much non-existent at the locations mentioned ( after they became necessary).


Maybe, but people need to fly back, too. You can't tell me that TSA wait times at SEA and PDX are short and reliable: I know better.
 
sprxUSA
Posts: 330
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:17 am

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:59 pm

Well most folks from, say CLM, are not only going to SEA. I was only referring to small, local airfield. Would you rather wait at both ends or only 1?
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 378
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Will Low Volume Destinations Ever Be Again In The United States?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:13 pm

if the route can be driven in 3.5 to 4 hours it will not likely succeed, unless it's a major carrier feeding it's hub ... one does not save anytime when everything is factored in ... time savings is the major factor for the vast majority of the traveling public.

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