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OA940
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757-200 Combi?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:24 am

So I just found out ATI has a few 752 Combi aircraft, and apparently National also used to have some as well. Could anyone provide some more information because my searches turn up very little, regarding the kind of missions they use them for or any other info you may have?

Maybe we could convince them to start scheduled pax flights with them ;)
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FlyRow
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 am

Didn't Nepal Airlines have the only two 757-200M's flying? I also believe they where never used as combi's.

ah, just noticed that those combi's went out of service with them in 2019.
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:38 am

OA940 wrote:
So I just found out ATI has a few 752 Combi aircraft, and apparently National also used to have some as well. Could anyone provide some more information because my searches turn up very little, regarding the kind of missions they use them for or any other info you may have?


ATI's N754GX has been flying mostly between Tokyo and Selestar these last few days. I wonder if it's used to carry cargo and employees of company between the two places, as did Minebea with its DC-10 in the '90s.

FlyRow wrote:
Didn't Nepal Airlines have the only two 757-200M's flying? I also believe they where never used as combi's.

ah, just noticed that those combi's went out of service with them in 2019.


Actually, only one. All the others are converted from pax version.
 
MO11
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:41 am

OA940 wrote:
So I just found out ATI has a few 752 Combi aircraft, and apparently National also used to have some as well. Could anyone provide some more information because my searches turn up very little, regarding the kind of missions they use them for or any other info you may have?



Apparently, National bought four passenger airplanes in 2010 and converted them to Combis in anticipation of taking over the military contract that ATI was operating with DC-8 Combis. ATI ended up keeping the contract and bought 3 of the 757s. The 4th 757 was completed and ferried to Roswell 7 years ago, where it sits (there may be a back story to that).
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:26 am

Lots of close-but-inaccurate info on here.

So... MO11 is an expert and has it mostly-correct. National took the "if we build it they will come" approach and ordered 4 combi conversions from PEMCO. PEMCO got to work, and had the earlier of the two conversion STCs out the door. Meanwhile, ATI, which had the USTRANSCOM combi contract and was flying it with DC8s, ordered 4 from Precision Conversions. Precision completed and delivered one by the time the AMC decided that the contract would stay with ATI, whereas PEMCO had finished 3 for National. Although ATI had done some charter work (e.g. rock tours, etc.) with the DC8 combis, the reality was that there wasn't going to be enough business for National to sustain probably even 1 757 Combi without the military work. So CAM bought the 3 PEMCO ones that had been completed from National, and cancelled its order for the rest of the Precision ones. National's fourth one is still sitting, only-partially done, in the desert; I don't think they ever cut the cargo door.

Personally, I think the Precision was the better design, but the outcome made a lot of sense for all involved.

The aircraft are numbered 751CX, 752CX, 753CX, and 754CX. (Someone had a typo calling one "G"X, not "C"X. The confusion probably results from the fact that they were numbered [differently] with a GX suffix while at National.) 751 is the Precision one; the rest are the PEMCO ones.

Really the only thing they are used for is Military flights. There are 3 basic routes: KBWI-BGTL (BWI-Thule AB); OKO-QPG-FJDG (Yokota AB - Paya Lebar AB - NSF Diego Garcia); HIK-KWA (Hickam AFB to Bucholz AAF). The fourth a/c is basically a spare. There are occasional side trips off the two Pacific routes; the BWI-Thule rotator generally just goes between those two places. As a general rule, 751CX does the Thule work, but of course sometimes is replaced by one of the others.

If you don't know what and where these air bases (Thule, Diego Garcia, Bucholz) are, you should google them. Each has a fascinating history.

Bottom line is that these reliable 757 combis fly into some of the most-remote places on Earth, over long stretches of lonely and inhospitable world below. The trips tend to go very senior.

Hope this helps!
 
smartplane
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:05 am

RNZAF operates a couple of 757 combis which they had converted. In near daily use.
 
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Acey559
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:27 am

If you have specific questions, PM me. I was a captain at ATI and flew the Combi fairly often.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
cedarjet
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:04 am

Acey559 wrote:
If you have specific questions, PM me. I was a captain at ATI and flew the Combi fairly often.

I’m guessing you must have flown the DC-8 on the same routes, so I wonder if you could give us a comparison between the two, especially payload (similar) and fuel burn (sea change)? Thank you!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
UA444
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:37 am

wjcandee wrote:
Lots of close-but-inaccurate info on here.

So... MO11 is an expert and has it mostly-correct. National took the "if we build it they will come" approach and ordered 4 combi conversions from PEMCO. PEMCO got to work, and had the earlier of the two conversion STCs out the door. Meanwhile, ATI, which had the USTRANSCOM combi contract and was flying it with DC8s, ordered 4 from Precision Conversions. Precision completed and delivered one by the time the AMC decided that the contract would stay with ATI, whereas PEMCO had finished 3 for National. Although ATI had done some charter work (e.g. rock tours, etc.) with the DC8 combis, the reality was that there wasn't going to be enough business for National to sustain probably even 1 757 Combi without the military work. So CAM bought the 3 PEMCO ones that had been completed from National, and cancelled its order for the rest of the Precision ones. National's fourth one is still sitting, only-partially done, in the desert; I don't think they ever cut the cargo door.

Personally, I think the Precision was the better design, but the outcome made a lot of sense for all involved.

The aircraft are numbered 751CX, 752CX, 753CX, and 754CX. (Someone had a typo calling one "G"X, not "C"X. The confusion probably results from the fact that they were numbered [differently] with a GX suffix while at National.) 751 is the Precision one; the rest are the PEMCO ones.

Really the only thing they are used for is Military flights. There are 3 basic routes: KBWI-BGTL (BWI-Thule AB); OKO-QPG-FJDG (Yokota AB - Paya Lebar AB - NSF Diego Garcia); HIK-KWA (Hickam AFB to Bucholz AAF). The fourth a/c is basically a spare. There are occasional side trips off the two Pacific routes; the BWI-Thule rotator generally just goes between those two places. As a general rule, 751CX does the Thule work, but of course sometimes is replaced by one of the others.

If you don't know what and where these air bases (Thule, Diego Garcia, Bucholz) are, you should google them. Each has a fascinating history.

Bottom line is that these reliable 757 combis fly into some of the most-remote places on Earth, over long stretches of lonely and inhospitable world below. The trips tend to go very senior.

Hope this helps!

What’s the registration of the one they cancelled that never got completed?
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:54 am

UA444 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Lots of close-but-inaccurate info on here.

So... MO11 is an expert and has it mostly-correct. National took the "if we build it they will come" approach and ordered 4 combi conversions from PEMCO. PEMCO got to work, and had the earlier of the two conversion STCs out the door. Meanwhile, ATI, which had the USTRANSCOM combi contract and was flying it with DC8s, ordered 4 from Precision Conversions. Precision completed and delivered one by the time the AMC decided that the contract would stay with ATI, whereas PEMCO had finished 3 for National. Although ATI had done some charter work (e.g. rock tours, etc.) with the DC8 combis, the reality was that there wasn't going to be enough business for National to sustain probably even 1 757 Combi without the military work. So CAM bought the 3 PEMCO ones that had been completed from National, and cancelled its order for the rest of the Precision ones. National's fourth one is still sitting, only-partially done, in the desert; I don't think they ever cut the cargo door.

Personally, I think the Precision was the better design, but the outcome made a lot of sense for all involved.

The aircraft are numbered 751CX, 752CX, 753CX, and 754CX. (Someone had a typo calling one "G"X, not "C"X. The confusion probably results from the fact that they were numbered [differently] with a GX suffix while at National.) 751 is the Precision one; the rest are the PEMCO ones.

Really the only thing they are used for is Military flights. There are 3 basic routes: KBWI-BGTL (BWI-Thule AB); OKO-QPG-FJDG (Yokota AB - Paya Lebar AB - NSF Diego Garcia); HIK-KWA (Hickam AFB to Bucholz AAF). The fourth a/c is basically a spare. There are occasional side trips off the two Pacific routes; the BWI-Thule rotator generally just goes between those two places. As a general rule, 751CX does the Thule work, but of course sometimes is replaced by one of the others.

If you don't know what and where these air bases (Thule, Diego Garcia, Bucholz) are, you should google them. Each has a fascinating history.

Bottom line is that these reliable 757 combis fly into some of the most-remote places on Earth, over long stretches of lonely and inhospitable world below. The trips tend to go very senior.

Hope this helps!

What’s the registration of the one they cancelled that never got completed?


N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.
 
MO11
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:56 pm

wjcandee wrote:
N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.


What I do remember is that PEMCO was trying to close up its Mobile base, and these four conversions were holding that up. I thought N168CA was completed. It flew to Kalitta for a while, I presume for work. I don't know a valuable an airplane is with a partially completed STC.
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:32 pm

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.


What I do remember is that PEMCO was trying to close up its Mobile base, and these four conversions were holding that up. I thought N168CA was completed. It flew to Kalitta for a while, I presume for work. I don't know a valuable an airplane is with a partially completed STC.


You are definitely correct, and I am wrong, that it got further than I realized, so maybe it was indeed done. However, I remember looking into this a couple of years ago, and was told that it was gonna be no easy thing to put it in service and that it was nowhere near finished. Which may also have been wrong. Maybe Kalitta finished it up in Oscoda. Regardless, it went straight to the desert, unpainted, and that where it sits. And if it was indeed started and not finished, I can't imagine who would want it, as you note, except maybe for some parts.
 
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Acey559
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:14 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Acey559 wrote:
If you have specific questions, PM me. I was a captain at ATI and flew the Combi fairly often.

I’m guessing you must have flown the DC-8 on the same routes, so I wonder if you could give us a comparison between the two, especially payload (similar) and fuel burn (sea change)? Thank you!


Unfortunately no, I missed the -8 by a few years. Listening to those who flew it, I get the impression that the DC-8 was a pretty heavy hauler. More so than I would have thought for a narrowbody, though it was a very long aircraft. As for fuel burn, I know having the CFM engines helped immensely but I can’t give accurate numbers since I never flew it. I wish I’d gotten the chance, I love old airliners. Though I guess you could call the 767-200 old nowadays. :)
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
juliuswong
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:23 am

wjcandee wrote:
UA444 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Lots of close-but-inaccurate info on here.

So... MO11 is an expert and has it mostly-correct. National took the "if we build it they will come" approach and ordered 4 combi conversions from PEMCO. PEMCO got to work, and had the earlier of the two conversion STCs out the door. Meanwhile, ATI, which had the USTRANSCOM combi contract and was flying it with DC8s, ordered 4 from Precision Conversions. Precision completed and delivered one by the time the AMC decided that the contract would stay with ATI, whereas PEMCO had finished 3 for National. Although ATI had done some charter work (e.g. rock tours, etc.) with the DC8 combis, the reality was that there wasn't going to be enough business for National to sustain probably even 1 757 Combi without the military work. So CAM bought the 3 PEMCO ones that had been completed from National, and cancelled its order for the rest of the Precision ones. National's fourth one is still sitting, only-partially done, in the desert; I don't think they ever cut the cargo door.

Personally, I think the Precision was the better design, but the outcome made a lot of sense for all involved.

The aircraft are numbered 751CX, 752CX, 753CX, and 754CX. (Someone had a typo calling one "G"X, not "C"X. The confusion probably results from the fact that they were numbered [differently] with a GX suffix while at National.) 751 is the Precision one; the rest are the PEMCO ones.

Really the only thing they are used for is Military flights. There are 3 basic routes: KBWI-BGTL (BWI-Thule AB); OKO-QPG-FJDG (Yokota AB - Paya Lebar AB - NSF Diego Garcia); HIK-KWA (Hickam AFB to Bucholz AAF). The fourth a/c is basically a spare. There are occasional side trips off the two Pacific routes; the BWI-Thule rotator generally just goes between those two places. As a general rule, 751CX does the Thule work, but of course sometimes is replaced by one of the others.

If you don't know what and where these air bases (Thule, Diego Garcia, Bucholz) are, you should google them. Each has a fascinating history.

Bottom line is that these reliable 757 combis fly into some of the most-remote places on Earth, over long stretches of lonely and inhospitable world below. The trips tend to go very senior.

Hope this helps!

What’s the registration of the one they cancelled that never got completed?


N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.

I wonder why other operators didn't pick her up since a lot of resources was spent to convert her and used B757 was in high demand for conversion. What a waste.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
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cougar15
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:20 am

TNT/ASL Belgium operates one on Nato flights. A dog to trim from what I hear.
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69bug
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:43 am

Was watching an Iron Maiden concert video and they used a 757 combi (before the 747) for their tour.

Not sure if combi is the correct term, if I'm not mistaken there was no maindeck cargo door but rather just a cargo hold with stuff being loaded via the passenger doors and tied down on board. Still you had pax and cargo on the same deck.

bug
 
blueflyer
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:24 am

cougar15 wrote:
TNT/ASL Belgium operates one on Nato flights. A dog to trim from what I hear.

Do they still have a NATO contract? I was actually wondering about that, as one of ASLB's 757s is doing the MRS-CDG run, and the other is hopping around the FedEx/TNT network, when it's not flying for DHL or UPS.
-TFC is the combi, correct? The other 757 is a full freighter, if memory serves.
 
bennett123
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:39 am

Assuming that N168CA is the same configuration as the other Combi, is it likely that they found major corrosion when they started the conversion process?.
 
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cougar15
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:54 am

blueflyer wrote:
cougar15 wrote:
TNT/ASL Belgium operates one on Nato flights. A dog to trim from what I hear.

Do they still have a NATO contract? I was actually wondering about that, as one of ASLB's 757s is doing the MRS-CDG run, and the other is hopping around the FedEx/TNT network, when it's not flying for DHL or UPS.
-TFC is the combi, correct? The other 757 is a full freighter, if memory serves.


Almost, TFC, not TCF is the Combi. Oh, well, if that is now bopping around the regular network, it must be a dog to trim for the ramp rats :old:
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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Spacepope
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:26 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Assuming that N168CA is the same configuration as the other Combi, is it likely that they found major corrosion when they started the conversion process?.


Probably not. Major corrosion would be found and documented well before the cutting and install of the cargo door.
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MCOflyer
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:45 pm

What about Patrick Air Force Base to Ascension Island? Who does that route because I’m pretty sure used to be a TI on the 757 Combi.
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Acey559
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:56 pm

MCOflyer wrote:
What about Patrick Air Force Base to Ascension Island? Who does that route because I’m pretty sure used to be a TI on the 757 Combi.


Still is ATI. I flew that trip many times during my time there. Very interesting place.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:00 pm

OA940 wrote:
So I just found out ATI has a few 752 Combi aircraft, and apparently National also used to have some as well. Could anyone provide some more information because my searches turn up very little, regarding the kind of missions they use them for or any other info you may have?

Maybe we could convince them to start scheduled pax flights with them ;)


I bleieve you can find ATI bird information here
https://www.airtransport.cc/our-fleet/b757-200-combi/
 
PC12Fan
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:01 pm

IIRC, I remember reading in a 757 book that Boeing them selves only produced one, maybe two dedicated Combis. The rest were all converted. I'll see if I can find it.

Update: Accoding to pedia, two were ordered from Boeing.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:49 pm

MCOflyer wrote:
What about Patrick Air Force Base to Ascension Island? Who does that route because I’m pretty sure used to be a TI on the 757 Combi.


Good point. The flight is COF-ANU-ASI-ANU-COF.
 
MO11
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:08 pm

cougar15 wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
-TFC is the combi, correct? The other 757 is a full freighter, if memory serves.


Almost, TFC, not TCF is the Combi. Oh, well, if that is now bopping around the regular network, it must be a dog to trim for the ramp rats :old:


OO-TFC is a freighter (converted from United -222). OO-TFA is the combi that flew for NATO. It went to XSP 13 months ago, was registered N757AS, and (presumably) hasn't left.

PC12Fan wrote:
IIRC, I remember reading in a 757 book that Boeing them selves only produced one, maybe two dedicated Combis. The rest were all converted. I'll see if I can find it.

Update: Accoding to pedia, two were ordered from Boeing.


According to the type certificate, only one: 9N-ACB/23863, and that's supposedly parked at KTM:

https://kathmandupost.com/money/2019/11/13/nepal-airlines-cuts-price-in-half-to-offload-vintage-boeing-757
 
Fixinthe757
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:33 am

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.


What I do remember is that PEMCO was trying to close up its Mobile base, and these four conversions were holding that up. I thought N168CA was completed. It flew to Kalitta for a while, I presume for work. I don't know a valuable an airplane is with a partially completed STC.

PEMCO was never in Mobile, only ST Mobile Aerospace, where we did the conversions on the two RNZAF 757s
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:42 pm

Fixinthe757 wrote:
MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
N168CA. And looking at photos, it appears that they did cut the cargo door, so I was wrong about that.


What I do remember is that PEMCO was trying to close up its Mobile base, and these four conversions were holding that up. I thought N168CA was completed. It flew to Kalitta for a while, I presume for work. I don't know a valuable an airplane is with a partially completed STC.

PEMCO was never in Mobile, only ST Mobile Aerospace, where we did the conversions on the two RNZAF 757s


He means DHN. (Or BHM, but probably DHN.)
 
MO11
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:51 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
MO11 wrote:

What I do remember is that PEMCO was trying to close up its Mobile base, and these four conversions were holding that up. I thought N168CA was completed. It flew to Kalitta for a while, I presume for work. I don't know a valuable an airplane is with a partially completed STC.

PEMCO was never in Mobile, only ST Mobile Aerospace, where we did the conversions on the two RNZAF 757s


He means DHN. (Or BHM, but probably DHN.)


Yes, Dothan.
 
wjcandee
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Re: 757-200 Combi?

Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:03 pm

MO11 wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Fixinthe757 wrote:
PEMCO was never in Mobile, only ST Mobile Aerospace, where we did the conversions on the two RNZAF 757s


He means DHN. (Or BHM, but probably DHN.)


Yes, Dothan.


I understood what you meant. PEMCO was closing up their Alabama facility and these conversions were holding that up.

Shows how that business goes; they were on top of the world one minute, biggest converter of 737s in the world, and the next minute they're in bankruptcy. Then, they get bought by private capital, move everything to Tampa, get things going in the right direction, then get bought by ATSG (and thus have a good stable source of capital), split into a conversion segment and a maintenance segment, get a solid maintenance contract for the whole Frontier fleet, take on business for AMES, and position themselves with a solid conversion plan for the A321. Ain't business grand!

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