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NameOmitted
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:11 am

Given the cost of new airports, a cost-effective solution might be to link existing airports in a metropolitan area with high-speed subways post-security.

Expensive? Eye-wateringly so. Cheaper than a new airport.
 
WWads
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:19 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
WWads wrote:
Ask some people in Ohio. They SWEAR that a new multi-billion dollar airport near Middletown to replace CVG will happen any day now. :roll:


Why does CVG need to be replaced? It's no longer a Delta hub. There is plenty of spare capacity.


It doesn't need to be replaced, but it seems that someone brings that up every six months or so here (mostly people from Ohio who are mad that "their" airport is in KY).
 
strfyr51
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:28 am

YYZORD wrote:
For SEA, I'd say if they can build the bullet train to YVR from SEA, move all asian and european international flights from SEA to YVR and leave SEA for only domestic/canada flights.

Jeez! that sounds like a Trump type of plan. SEATAC is where it needs to be and what it needs to be. Heck! it might be easier to co locate at McChord thanb do that as the military Joint bases are progressing. Why not joint base Military and Civilian like Hickam and HNL? It could lower the costs for both .
 
peachair
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:37 am

I would say LGA too. With the new terminals and CTB, there is a net add of 35 Gates (that was on the plan) but no third runway, and the same congestion issues remain and arguably get worse. I understand there is also a plan to bring train services to LGA. Is there any update on that?
 
26point2
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:46 am

N776AU wrote:
The problem with 1 and 3 is that you have environmentalist wackos in charge. Not gonna happen in a million years.


Rush? Is that you?
 
strfyr51
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:50 am

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
As the US population explodes in the next 25 years (and it will explode... we will be a nation just shy of 400,000,000 people), the individual needs of folks will by necessity become less important than the overall common good. Especially when you consider the bulk of that growth will occur in large municipalities (true cities like LA, NYC, Chicago are shrinking, but that won't continue as populations increase and folks need somewhere to live). Everyone will just have to get used to the ideas of longer transit times in large population centers. Ideas like tight coordination between JFK/LGA/EWR , SFO/OAK/SJC, BWI/DCA/IAD, MDW/GYY/ORD, LAX/ONT/SNA/LGB/BUR with rail or specialized highways for high speed connectivity between them might be the solution. Locating green field airports in the boonies is not the answer. Land acquisition is far too expensive in every metro area that has present airport constraints. Distributing the load amongst airports is the only way. Sorry SpinOtter.. it's just the way it's going to be in our brave new world.

I

I tend to agree with you But a lot of people want their city to be gateway cities whick Isn't going to do anything for them but raise taxes. And? Exactly For WHOM would we BE expanding? For the US Based carriers? or Foreign Based carriers?
 
AtomicGarden
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:09 am

Just for the fun of the thread, what do you think about artificial islands?
You killed a black astronaut, Cyril! That's like killing a unicorn!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:10 am

There is little chance of a 'new' airport in the larger metro areas of the USA due to a variety of economic, physical, environmental, military security and NIMBY issues. The only real hope is to try to limit future demand and shift flights from the busiest airports.
Use peak/off-peak pricing of landing and takeoff fees. Eliminate many of the shortest and connector flights. Fewer flights on larger aircraft. Shift some hubs to airports that are underutilized like STL, Shift cargo to other existing airports away from majors but close to major markets, like Stewart in Orange Co. in NY to NYC.
 
seatback
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:38 am

In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?
 
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stl07
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:32 am

N776AU wrote:
The problem with 1 and 3 is that you have environmentalist wackos in charge. Not gonna happen in a million years.

Ok, lets move you to New Delhi and see how much you'll miss those environmentalists. You can't breathe, everyone has a sore thorat, and flights are cancelled for days at a time. Don't mix environmentalists up with NIMBYS or you will be very sorry. Environmentalists have a rational argument that needs to be listened to. NIMBYS, on the other hand, are you problem.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:48 am

seatback wrote:
In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?


Any new airport would need to be directly from a terminal at the airport to the rail transit system. Otherwise no one will want to close the old airport.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:26 am

Vegaschezhed wrote:
I think the most realistic option would be Ivanpah as a 2nd to LAS. The BLM, FAA and Clark County re-opened feasibility studies in 2018.


As this reply seems to be being ignored, yes, this is probably the most logical choice for the next major airport build, however, I don't think it will happen, building a reliever airport 45 minutes from town is going to led to nobody wanting to use it, LAS would have to be closed and bulldozed for there to be any chance of the airport gaining any traction.

Much like the Vegas - LA HSR, great idea, but when it terminates in Victorville it's DOA, the same would apply to Ivanpah.
 
Toinou
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:27 am

YouGeeElWhy wrote:
HSR is not possible in America. The freight guys will not give up their tracks and rural landowners will not give up their land for something they see as a benefit to "city folk". Emmeint domain and HSR might work in a few locations, but it will never be nationwide like China (government does what it wants) or France (Infrastructure has been there for 60 years).

You're mostly wrong on France : HSR infrastructure only started to be developed 50 ago and most of it is much more recent. And believe me that local resistance is frequently very strong.

FluidFLow wrote:
I think even if you add 30min on my times it is doable with 250-300km/h. Costly will be the underground part into the city centers. The real benefit will be, that you shave off 30min to 1h of travel time from the center to the airport and another 1h to 90min of security. Over all it will be faster to use the train for distances like this.

The benefit will really come to play if you add another stop at the airport and offer long haul + train service as a combined ticket. The airlines can outsource the inefficient commuter flights to the rail network (which also can offer higher frequencies) while keeping the high yield long haul flights (and even increase them due to more available slots). This would unfortunately need a joint effort of rail firms, airlines and most importantly the government.


It may work about Los Angeles to San Francisco. It is less than 600 km as the crows flies. But to achieve what you say, about 2 hours, would need a speed higher than 300 km/h, no intermediate stop and to be able to maintain the speed for almost the whole way. So, I guess, really difficult in practice. That being said, even a somewhat longer travel time could be attractive to passengers if it is center-to-center and if there is no lengthy check-in or security check for the train (which I would not be sure, given the general feeling in the US).
About NYC to Chicago, I keep my position: it is almost 1200 km in straight line (and the present Amtrak line (serving reasonable amount of population) is more than 1500). So, it is difficult to plan on train being shorter than 5 or 6 hours. With present perception of travel time, it couldn't really compete with flying. And I wouldn't even try to imagine the cost (and political difficulties) of realizing such a line. But I dream it could exist!
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:26 am

Do SF consider to expand Travis AFB as relief/replacement of SFO
 
Norlander
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:42 am

Distances up to 600km/375miles is quite attractive in high speed trains already. The line between Madrid and Barcelona completes that in 2hr 45 mins, with 1 stop in Zaragoza. The MAD-BCN air route used to be the busiest city pairing in the World before it opened, its still a busy route with about 2.5 million passengers per year, but that number is stagnating. The train now takes 4.1 million passengers per year and rising. Basically 2/3 of the traffic is now served by the high-speed train. At double the distance fewer will take the train of course, but will that be 1/3 or 1/2?

I've taken the train between Madrid Atocha and Barna Sants a few times. Its a great trip, you leave from the city center, you arrive in the city center, and personally I feel much more fresh and relaxed. The leg room is better, no issues with luggage, and no effects from the cabin air pressure. There is security that you have to go through, but not anything like that at an airport, its over quickly. Just throw your suitcase into a machine, and walk through a scanner.
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ro1960
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:00 pm

ro1960 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
As the US population explodes in the next 25 years

Humm, the native born population isn't growing. All the growth has come from immigration which currently is not being very welcomed, and I don't see the current trend changing soon. in other words: our population growth has stagnated.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/u- ... w-n1108816


A countrie’s population includes nonnatives. Migrants travel too, you know. Whether they’re welcome or not. So their number contribute to the overcrowding just like the locals. But people also travel more because fares are cheaper.


And here some figures that show both domestic and international air trafic growth more or less on a par.

https://www.bts.dot.gov/newsroom/2018-traffic-data-us-airlines-and-foreign-airlines-us-flights
You may like my airport photos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/aeroports
 
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spinotter
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:48 pm

stl07 wrote:
N776AU wrote:
The problem with 1 and 3 is that you have environmentalist wackos in charge. Not gonna happen in a million years.

Ok, lets move you to New Delhi and see how much you'll miss those environmentalists. You can't breathe, everyone has a sore thorat, and flights are cancelled for days at a time. Don't mix environmentalists up with NIMBYS or you will be very sorry. Environmentalists have a rational argument that needs to be listened to. NIMBYS, on the other hand, are you problem.


Excellent posting. The majority of the human race can currently be called addicts, and their addiction is to more and more of the life-destroying practices and technologies that have arisen over the centuries, but with population growth and current technological capabilities have reached global life extinction levels. We all know about addicts, I think. "We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction..." I'm old, but I feel very sorry for young people. And I would like a chance to see this world in two centuries - it could be paradise, but more likely the inferno!
 
IADCA
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:23 pm

chunhimlai wrote:
Do SF consider to expand Travis AFB as relief/replacement of SFO


Ah, yes, a major military base that's an hour away from the closer side of the city even without traffic, would need insanely expensive, single-purpose infrastructure upgrades to get mass transit there (that would include multiple new water crossings, including of the Bay), and is in fact significantly closer to Sacramento than it is to SF.

Can you please tell us where you live so the rest of us can make similarly insane suggestions about the metropolitan infrastructure there?

Edit: Just to be clear: nobody is considering that because it is a mind-meltingly silly idea.
 
Cadet985
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 pm

seatback wrote:
In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?


Glad someone finally mentioned PHL. The only way I see an expansion at PHL is to demolish International Plaza and at least part of Cargo City. There is nowhere within city limits to build a new airport, and if you start looking at the suburbs closest to Center City, the infrastructure doesn’t exist...and that’s not counting the NIMBY people. I mean we have PNE, but no commercial traffic is allowed there, and the just thought of it would set off MAJOR opposition; hell, they had to stop a WW2 fly-in because of neighbors.

Marc
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:26 pm

Ever is a long time, so I will go with yes. Just don't ask me where.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:27 pm

AtomicGarden wrote:
Just for the fun of the thread, what do you think about artificial islands?


If we stick to the thread title, not gonna happen in the U.S. - not where new greenfield airports are really needed, anyway. Environmental permitting is conducted at the state level, and you'd never get something approved in California, New York or Massachusetts (where people have some cares about the environment and elect officials in line with that).

There's got to be an easier and cheaper way of supplementing Sea-Tac than building in Puget Sound. P=zero on the HSR to YVR deal and making SEA domestic (nominated as most foolish idea on a.net). The Joint Base Lewis-McChord idea has merit. You can do a lot even with just one 10,000 ft runway at sea level, as LGW demonstrates. But that's reuse (like AUS), not greenfield.
 
CowAnon
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:12 am

Murdoughnut wrote:
Here's an idea sure to be unpopular here (and for my career)... aviation is an inherently dated concept ripe for technological replacement.

Hyperloop, or some iteration, stands to make much of commercial air travel obsolete. Short haul flights between major markets will disappear. What remains of aviation will serve to connect international markets, or medium and long-haul domestic markets.

I concur with the first part of this. Aviation has some major negatives to deal with in global and local emissions, noise, and land occupation/impacts in urbanized areas. If there's a large rollout of other technologies that eliminate or mitigate aviation's speed advantage, flights would start disappearing, but IMO the short-haul flights have a better chance of persisting than the long-haulers. The NIMBY problem seems even more of an obstacle for new tracks and freeways than for airports. Until crabs get the right to sue, crossing oceans may actually be easier to scale out, once somebody takes that first step of implementing floating tunnel technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1YFh98dkE
 
Kent350787
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:46 am

This is an interesting discussion to watch from the outside (especially as I’m currently standing at SYD as I type).

SYD is a near downtown airport like BOS, with similar issues. There are plans for better use of ground areas but nowhere for runway expansion.

Sydney is currently constructing a greenfield airport, but does not plan to close SYD. I think it’s telling that the operator of the current airport chose not to be involved in the new airport. Connections are planned, but it’s still a long way from downtown.

As well as providing extra capacity, the new airport 30miles from the current airport is being seen as as a development driver for its sub-region.
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strfyr51
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:43 am

seatback wrote:
In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?

could be the airport for Philadelphia might need to be located somewhere east of Philadelphia either in South Jersey or somewhere between Philly and Wilmington DE., because the Philadelphia Metropolitan area includes South Jersey and Wilmington DE. and they'll need more than a 1 runway Airport for the future. The present PHL they can use for corporate and Cargo so it won't be going to waste. I would also say thet could Co Locate with McGuire AFB as Willow Grove is too small and surrounded to expand on.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:48 am

IMO, we're not likely to see a specifically green-field major airport in the USA. More likely, we'll see whatever expansions and reconfigurations can be done with existing airfields. None of the largest USA metropolitan areas have enough land anywhere near their city centers to be useful. DEN, as already noted, was a situation with the right set of circumstances to work. I for one don't see how it can be repeated elsewhere. Some examples:

Californa, North and South, has excellent existing facilities that simply need appropriate investment, like new runways in the bay for SFO. But both NorCal and SoCal's environmental and NIMBY politics are unlikely to allow them to take the steps their major airports need. So they'll just keep muddling through. Though LAX, in my experience, seems to manage its overload quite well. I find it very convenient to use. Plus CA is foolishly wasting billions of dollars on a white-elephant train line.

NYC, forget anything other than the expensive improvements being made at the existing three major airports.

DC is actually pretty well set. DCA is being ajdusted to meet its post-consolidation-slot-transaction growth, IAD is overbuilt but VA taxpayers are helping pay it down, and has lots of room to grow. Maryland seems to keep BWI in good shape.

Chicago--I'd believe Peotone when I see it. Who on earth wants to drive all the way down there? No carrier at O'Hare would want to leave that airport situated next to the bulk of the Chicagoland higher-income population to the north for a cornfield 44 miles south of Millennium Park. ORD's reconfiguration and the terminal plans should give it a long, prosperous future.I'd guess WN will deal with MDW as it is, say by shifting connection traffic elsewhere as needed.

Who on Atlanta's prospeous north side is going to allow a new airport up there? Plus ATL has five parallel runways now, and it looks like room for terminal facilities north of the southernmost runway.

Jim
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PHLspecial
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:05 am

Cadet985 wrote:
seatback wrote:
In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?


Glad someone finally mentioned PHL. The only way I see an expansion at PHL is to demolish International Plaza and at least part of Cargo City. There is nowhere within city limits to build a new airport, and if you start looking at the suburbs closest to Center City, the infrastructure doesn’t exist...and that’s not counting the NIMBY people. I mean we have PNE, but no commercial traffic is allowed there, and the just thought of it would set off MAJOR opposition; hell, they had to stop a WW2 fly-in because of neighbors.

Marc

I believe currently PHL is building a cargo city at the new land they just purchased. Plus PHL owns the International Plaza. So PHL would be ready for new expansion.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:13 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
Just for the fun of the thread, what do you think about artificial islands?


If we stick to the thread title, not gonna happen in the U.S. - not where new greenfield airports are really needed, anyway. Environmental permitting is conducted at the state level, and you'd never get something approved in California, New York or Massachusetts (where people have some cares about the environment and elect officials in line with that).

There's got to be an easier and cheaper way of supplementing Sea-Tac than building in Puget Sound. P=zero on the HSR to YVR deal and making SEA domestic (nominated as most foolish idea on a.net). The Joint Base Lewis-McChord idea has merit. You can do a lot even with just one 10,000 ft runway at sea level, as LGW demonstrates. But that's reuse (like AUS), not greenfield.


Sure glad there weren’t environmentalists at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, wed really be f’d. Riding horses, plowing subsistence farms with oxen and burning trees to stay warm. Progress is terribly dangerous.
 
Toinou
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:52 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
Just for the fun of the thread, what do you think about artificial islands?


If we stick to the thread title, not gonna happen in the U.S. - not where new greenfield airports are really needed, anyway. Environmental permitting is conducted at the state level, and you'd never get something approved in California, New York or Massachusetts (where people have some cares about the environment and elect officials in line with that).

There's got to be an easier and cheaper way of supplementing Sea-Tac than building in Puget Sound. P=zero on the HSR to YVR deal and making SEA domestic (nominated as most foolish idea on a.net). The Joint Base Lewis-McChord idea has merit. You can do a lot even with just one 10,000 ft runway at sea level, as LGW demonstrates. But that's reuse (like AUS), not greenfield.


Sure glad there weren’t environmentalists at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, wed really be f’d. Riding horses, plowing subsistence farms with oxen and burning trees to stay warm. Progress is terribly dangerous.

Sure glad there were environmentalists during the 50' and 60', wed really be f'd. Nuclear anything, including explosives for civil engineering, many historical city centres destroyed to make room for motorways, chemicals spilled everywhere... Progress is not always a good thing.
 
lat41
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:13 pm

Kno wrote:
Boston has a number of commercial ready airports within an hours drive that are under utilized. Perhaps they should be expanded rather than build a new airport

PVD can accommodate a big Southern slice of the BOS marketing pie. Right off the interstate and It's own railroad station. CAT III, customs, the whole package including one climate zone milder in the Winter months. When Logan saturated, PVD can ramp up.
 
ikramerica
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:21 pm

You need a new “green field” city first.
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smokeybandit
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:12 pm

This country can't even do mass transit projects right. I can't imagine a from-scratch airport could be built in less than 10 years.
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AtomicGarden wrote:
Just for the fun of the thread, what do you think about artificial islands?


If we stick to the thread title, not gonna happen in the U.S. - not where new greenfield airports are really needed, anyway. Environmental permitting is conducted at the state level, and you'd never get something approved in California, New York or Massachusetts (where people have some cares about the environment and elect officials in line with that).

There's got to be an easier and cheaper way of supplementing Sea-Tac than building in Puget Sound. P=zero on the HSR to YVR deal and making SEA domestic (nominated as most foolish idea on a.net). The Joint Base Lewis-McChord idea has merit. You can do a lot even with just one 10,000 ft runway at sea level, as LGW demonstrates. But that's reuse (like AUS), not greenfield.


San Diego did think that before but withdrawal later
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:14 am

KFTG wrote:
There's still hope for Miramar I think. To relocate all of the units, there seems to be plenty of hangar/ramp space available at North Island and Imperial Beach. Lemoore is also designed such that expansion is relatively easy and painless, funding of course being available. There is a ton of space allocated for future use north of the current hangars. SAN itself could be turned over to the USMC once all the dust settles.

The USMC doesn’t want SAN because their jets are too loud.
 
RobertPhoenix
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:28 am

No need for new airports, at least for a while, just restart A380 production but this time with a 900 instead of an 800. Would look much better as well.

Solve the loading time problems by putting passengers in containers. Much faster to load.

Need to widen runways a bit.

:D :rotfl:
 
philabos
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:39 am

The FRA and Amtrak developed a plan 3 years ago for a line relocation in eastern Connecticut to speed up the Acela to better compete with air service.
The governor, both senators, the congressman, evironmentalists and nimby's all joined forces to halt the process, including threats to defund Amtrak. They said a better plan was needed. Radio silence ever since.
The better plan is apparently to keep everything exactly as it is today.
Then there is California High Speed Rail.......I could write pages......but enough OT.
The new airport may seem unlikely, but relatively far better off than rail which has no build every inch on the ground.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:44 am

Insertnamehere wrote:
Do we really need to be building new airports? I love aviation as much as the next guy here but constraints in the market help with competition and protect startup airlines from being pushed out by the majors. Making the infrastructure we have more modern and more efficient would do more good then taking the more gun-ho approach of building new airports which can take 10+ years (20 with how American contractors work) to come online versus utilising new technology and redeveloping old airports.


Have you been to Berlin Germany in the last 10+ years?
 
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chunhimlai
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Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:20 am

New SFO in Travel AFB

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OLD SFO VS NEW SFO

Capacity: 71.1M vs 200M
Runway: 4 vs 5
Peak Hour Movement: 110 vs 230
Bridge gate: 121 vs 300+
 
melpax
Posts: 2037
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:32 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
This is an interesting discussion to watch from the outside (especially as I’m currently standing at SYD as I type).

SYD is a near downtown airport like BOS, with similar issues. There are plans for better use of ground areas but nowhere for runway expansion.

Sydney is currently constructing a greenfield airport, but does not plan to close SYD. I think it’s telling that the operator of the current airport chose not to be involved in the new airport. Connections are planned, but it’s still a long way from downtown.

As well as providing extra capacity, the new airport 30miles from the current airport is being seen as as a development driver for its sub-region.


Don't forget the 'artifical' capacity constraints that are in place in SYD due to NIMBY action, namely the curfew. Given that SYD is in an inner city area, aircraft noise from SYD is a hot political topic both at the state & federal level, which has lead to the eventual development of Badgery's Creek.

We in Melbourne can be thankful that Tullamarine was developed in a then quiet rural area free from NIMBY constraints (not that would have been a consideration back in the 60's...). A testament to the original design that it's only now, 50 years since the original opening that the facilities are at the point of being maxed out, and upgrades such as additional runways & mid-field concourses are now being seriously planned. And at least we have the space, and lack of local opposition to do those things....
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
TFawkes
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:07 pm

WWads wrote:
Ask some people in Ohio. They SWEAR that a new multi-billion dollar airport near Middletown to replace CVG will happen any day now. :roll:

When Dayton is already a far better airport than CVG in terms of amenities...

Cinci is a dying city anyway. The only decently sized firms still out there are P&G and some satellite offices of Boeing and their suppliers. And the only significant international traffic there is Canada.
 
TFawkes
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:16 pm

Nuke Newark from orbit and clean-sheet it before looking at Boston Logan. Boston at least has modern infrastructure. Newark needs two proper parallel runways capable of handling A380s (because the 777X will eventually be stretched and VLA freighters will always have a purpose). Newark also needs a high speed underground rail directly into Manhattan to take the pressure off of LGA and JFK. Heck if JFK could just take all of the international traffic from LGA and give LGA all its domestic traffic, both would be massively improved just in terms of seamless operations and infrastructure. And an underground rail between the two would mostly reduce any noise/complaints about transfers.

The other facepalm/eyesore that needs to be knocked down and redone is LAX. The new international terminal is hopeless and will make transferring to half the domestic terminals almost as bad as the mile-long sprints at Fort Lauderdale and Orlando. I can only hope customs and baggage at the new international terminal won't be the 3rd world aberration that the current one is.
Last edited by TFawkes on Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
TFawkes
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:29 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
seatback wrote:
In the case of Denver, bulldozing Stapleton helped too. Point is for cities mentioned above and I'd also add PHL, we need our city and government leaders to be thinking way down the road...30 years from now. Can Philly really handle the projected growth?

could be the airport for Philadelphia might need to be located somewhere east of Philadelphia either in South Jersey or somewhere between Philly and Wilmington DE., because the Philadelphia Metropolitan area includes South Jersey and Wilmington DE. and they'll need more than a 1 runway Airport for the future. The present PHL they can use for corporate and Cargo so it won't be going to waste. I would also say thet could Co Locate with McGuire AFB as Willow Grove is too small and surrounded to expand on.

Build out of Trenton Mercer into a proper international airport maybe? You can't reasonably fit a big airport between PHL and EWR or PHL and TMC. And Trenton is, uh, much more controllable on the NIMBY factor. Eminent Domain is easy in that area.
 
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SQ32
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:18 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 1:32 pm

Leaders of USA have deliberately patronized anti development environmentalist as well as gangs of blood sucking legal communities. The former relishes stone age style and the later demands exhorbitive amount of money (legal fee), against any major development.
 
heavyhaul217
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:32 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:01 pm

I dont know if it will happen in our lifetime or not but, What about the South Suburban Airport (South of Chicago) that has been in the works since the early 80"s? I Illinois has bought up about 5000 acres already. As well an existing airport on the land
 
WWads
Posts: 340
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:51 am

TFawkes wrote:
WWads wrote:
Ask some people in Ohio. They SWEAR that a new multi-billion dollar airport near Middletown to replace CVG will happen any day now. :roll:

When Dayton is already a far better airport than CVG in terms of amenities...

Cinci is a dying city anyway. The only decently sized firms still out there are P&G and some satellite offices of Boeing and their suppliers. And the only significant international traffic there is Canada.


Lmao is this a troll post? DL operates CVG-CDG and I've been told by both Delta employees and airport officials that it's one of Delta's best performing TATL flights. CVG has seen dynamic passenger and cargo growth for the last five years and isn't slowing down.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Will there ever been a new greenfield major airport in the USA?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:33 am

melpax wrote:
Don't forget the 'artifical' capacity constraints that are in place in SYD due to NIMBY action, namely the curfew. Given that SYD is in an inner city area, aircraft noise from SYD is a hot political topic both at the state & federal level, which has lead to the eventual development of Badgery's Creek.


Not forgotten at all - BOS also has a similar curfew for similar reasons (noting it's not legislated AFAIK and there is some flex (as my 0125 departure last month attests). It doesn't have hourly caps though, which I think are stupid in SYD. SYD does have limited capacity during peak periods even if the caps were lifted, but still has plenty of capacity outside the peak even with "no" passenger flights between 2300 and 0600.

As others in the thread are attesting, "NIMBYism" appears to be an issue in the US as well.
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