Forgive me if this is already up somewhere, but does anybody have a running list of some network reallocations stemming from China flights being cut by US airlines?

Some AA upgauges. Not all are operating daily.

AA 657 DFW-PHL, 788 from Feb 14th
AA 574/AA 2733 DFW-LAX, 788 from Feb 13th
AA 60/61 DFW-NRT, 77W from Feb 15th
AA 1260 DFW-SFO, 772 from Feb 16th
AA 2625/1598 ORD-LAX, 789 from March 29th
AA 2798/1253 ORD-SFO, 788 from March 28th
AA 55/56 JFK-LAX, 772 from April 7th

Unexpected windfall for the guys up front then, must be quite an upgrade from domestic business to getting flatbeds intended for long-haul.

DLm high level changes most effective starting by March 1:

A350s and 777s going to upgauge DTW/ATL-AMS/CDG
A339s going to SEA-AMS

Freed-up A330 and 767 from TATL upgauging to AMS & CDG going to;
Additional TATL capacity fromATL & JFK
Extra DTW/ATL-LAS frequencies
Upgauging/extra sections on ATL-SEA/SLC/SAN

JustSomeDood wrote:

Unexpected windfall for the guys up front then, must be quite an upgrade from domestic business to getting flatbeds intended for long-haul.

Some extra sections with these, yes, but AA at least runs WBs between hubs with some regularity. Plus JFK-LAX/SFO has flat beds in J/F anyway.

Last night UA used a 772 between SFO and MCO

Checked seat map on my AA flights DFW/LHR/DFW next month and see it's changed from 772 to 77W. Guess that's another 772 now available for shorter segments. Checked loads and the 772 was not even close to full on any of the T/A flights.

I saw a UA SFO-ORD upgauged to 772 with Polaris/PP yesterday due to a 757 out of service, probably not a typical sub

KLM has released a new early Summer schedules (April - May only) for routes to the USA.

The peak summer frequencies tend to start earlier:

- AMS - LAX - 1x extra B772 = 2x daily
- AMS - SFO - 1x extra B789 = 12x weekly
- AMS - SLC - 1x extra B789 = 4x weekly (11x weekly with DL)
- AMS - BOS - 1x extra A333 = 5x weekly (19x weekly with DL)
- AMS - LAS - 1x extra B789 = 4x weekly
- AMS - JFK - 1x extra B789 or B772 = 21x weekly (35x weekly with DL)

I’m on my way to work in Manhattan and just passed EWR, there are two UA 77W’s back to back in line for departure. One is going to ORD and the other SFO. The ORD one has to be a substitute, not sure about the SFO flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

In March, United will be flying the 777-200 on ORD-MCO/LAS/CUN and IAH-CUN.

jetskipper wrote:

In March, United will be flying the 777-200 on ORD-MCO/LAS/CUN and IAH-CUN.

In addition to your post UA is also adding additional widebody flying on EWR-SFO/LAX, IAD-SFO/LAX, DEN-LAX, There have also been rumors (I can not confirm them yet) UA may upguage SFO-CUN to a 787 will be interesting to see if this rumor comes true. Most of these upguages once loaded into the schedule should remain until April 22nd or 23rd

Other upguages we have already seen are EWR-HNL 77E, (EWR-SJU 77E (this varies between the usual 764 to a 77W at times)), IAD-SJU 77E, EWR-MCO 764.

I would hazard a guess that the U.S. has not seen this much domestic widebody service in many, many years.

Also doesn't hurt that spring break is about to start. Bigger planes means more seats to fill to warm spots

In an odd way that will cause the airlines that have no China presence such as Southwest, Spirit and Frontier to also feel the affects. As the major US carriers sub wide bodies on domestic routes their CASM will drop well below the low cost carriers. If the LCCs want to match their fares they may be taking a loss on leisure routes to compete. Might be a good time for the majors to really go head to head on Hawaii routes.

gdg9 wrote:

I would hazard a guess that the U.S. has not seen this much domestic widebody service in many, many years.

I'd say that's a VERY good guess! Oh for the days when nearly all trans-con's and mainland <-> Hawaii flights were widebodies! Sigh.

I’d love to see something trickle over to BOS.


We used to have several domestic widebody flights on every major - in the past 10 years that’s dwindled to typically at least one (AA a330s and 767s on BOS-PHL, UA 777 on BOS-SFO, DL 767 on BOS-SLC, currently we have nothing but AA will soon throw a 777 on BOS-MIA)

As of now, DL has made all 3 frequencies the A350 on DTW-AMS as well as its daily CDG.

Had my DFW-LAS flight 2 weeks ago upgauge from a 752 to a 789!! Loved it as I and the family were on paid F tickets...

Flying LAX-DFW in a month, and it's upgauged from 788 to a 789.

jetskipper wrote:

As the major US carriers sub wide bodies on domestic routes their CASM will drop well below the low cost carriers.

No, they won't. Spirit and Allegiant's CASMs are so much lower than AA/DL/UA it doesn't matter what those three operate. Apart from a few UA 772s their widebodies aren't in high-density configs - they have lie-flat J. They're still flown with relatively higher-cost pilots and FAs.

You might see the effects of a lot more seats on pricing.

UA has used the 777 on SFO-LAX-SFO a few times this past week. We were also told that we will utilize the downtime to get maintenance done on the aircraft and while it wasn’t mentioned, would it be possible for them to speed up any planned cabin mods? Would be nice to get the new Polaris cabin into some frames sooner than anticipated.

STT757 wrote:

I’m on my way to work in Manhattan and just passed EWR, there are two UA 77W’s back to back in line for departure. One is going to ORD and the other SFO. The ORD one has to be a substitute, not sure about the SFO flight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I have been on a 777 from ORD to EWR during "Consultant Peak Hours" with actual Polaris before...just can't remember if it was a -200 or -300 but I was in a very nice and comfortable lie-flat bed for 4.5 hours - we spent an extra 1.5 hours on the tarmac and then spent time getting in line to land at EWR.

I guess this gives AA and UA an ability domestically to ride out the MAX groundings a little longer and add some capacity back. Maybe COVID-19 and the MAX will sort themselves out around the same time.

When Widebodies are payed for, should US Airlines use Widebodies on their BIGGEST US Markets?

At many Airports, Gates are Limited / There are no Gates available.

Supposedly, UA will operating a 777 on TPA-EWR for some days in March

AA post their widebody schedules on the AA Cargo site. You can see where a few are slow to catch up as they don't have the AA55/56 operating JFK-LAX with the 772 in there yet.
https://www.aacargo.com/ship/schedules.html

AWACSooner wrote:

Flying LAX-DFW in a month, and it's upgauged from 788 to a 789.

AA have been operating, or planning to operate, LAX-DFW with a 789 for a while now. I took the 8.35am flight LAX-DFW a few weeks ago and it was listed as a 787-9 as far back as October when I booked the flight.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

DLm high level changes most effective starting by March 1:

A350s and 777s going to upgauge DTW/ATL-AMS/CDG
A339s going to SEA-AMS

Freed-up A330 and 767 from TATL upgauging to AMS & CDG going to;
Additional TATL capacity fromATL & JFK
Extra DTW/ATL-LAS frequencies
Upgauging/extra sections on ATL-SEA/SLC/SAN

A majority of these were planed months before the Coronavirus cancelations.

dc10lover wrote:

When Widebodies are payed for, should US Airlines use Widebodies on their BIGGEST US Markets?

At many Airports, Gates are Limited / There are no Gates available.

That's what UA has been doing with their HD 777s

Acey559 wrote:

UA has used the 777 on SFO-LAX-SFO a few times this past week. We were also told that we will utilize the downtime to get maintenance done on the aircraft and while it wasn’t mentioned, would it be possible for them to speed up any planned cabin mods? Would be nice to get the new Polaris cabin into some frames sooner than anticipated.

Now that would be a very smart thing to do so let's see

Not a substitution, but AA is taking this time to bring their 77W's to MLB for cabin fittings. We always have 2 here at a time, and they are cycled pretty regularly.

UA is starting PHX-IAH 777 March 30th

gdg9 wrote:

I would hazard a guess that the U.S. has not seen this much domestic widebody service in many, many years.

and? you'd be correct since the Domestic DC10-10 eas retired

jayunited wrote:

jetskipper wrote:

In March, United will be flying the 777-200 on ORD-MCO/LAS/CUN and IAH-CUN.

In addition to your post UA is also adding additional widebody flying on EWR-SFO/LAX, IAD-SFO/LAX, DEN-LAX, There have also been rumors (I can not confirm them yet) UA may upguage SFO-CUN to a 787 will be interesting to see if this rumor comes true. Most of these upguages once loaded into the schedule should remain until April 22nd or 23rd

Other upguages we have already seen are EWR-HNL 77E, (EWR-SJU 77E (this varies between the usual 764 to a 77W at times)), IAD-SJU 77E, EWR-MCO 764.

Looks like they upgauged the morning SFO-CUN to a 77E. I’m guessing UA doesn’t have the staff trained there on the 787

The other thread on this subject was locked which is understandable.

UA has updated their domestic schedule for March and April. (There could be a few flights I'm missing because the upguage is only one day, or the upguage is Saturdays only.)
Most of the upguages listed below are daily or at least 5x weekly and I just used the generic name 777 or 787 because on some routes it changes from 77A, 77E to 77W or 789 and 78X.

ORD-LAX 777; ORD-DEN 777; ORD-MCO 777 2x daily; ORD-LAS 777; EWR-MCO 777; EWR-LAS 777; EWR-IAH 764; EWR-LAX (additional) 787s; EWR-SFO (additional) 787/777s; IAH-CUN 777 2x daily; IAH-LAX 787s; IAH-SFO-787s; LAX-IAD 777/787s.

The list above is in addition to the usually schedule widebodies that UA already flies domestically.

Someone else in the now locked thread stated between the US3 this will be the most domestic widebody flying the U.S. has seen in over a decade. This is true as more and more Americans are deciding to travel a bit closer to home during spring break 2020 as a result of COVID-19. However if there is a massive uptick in the number of cases here in the U.S. and Mexico that disrupts domestic and shot haul international travel, then things could start to look a bit more worrisome for all U.S. carriers.

^add also to that EWR-TPA 777, which is showing up for late March into April.

Iah-phx also 777

9w748capt wrote:

JustSomeDood wrote:

Unexpected windfall for the guys up front then, must be quite an upgrade from domestic business to getting flatbeds intended for long-haul.

Some extra sections with these, yes, but AA at least runs WBs between hubs with some regularity. Plus JFK-LAX/SFO has flat beds in J/F anyway.

AA 788s have fewer (20) flatbed seats than the 321Ts (28). But on other routes, very much an upgrade.

I also see an AA 332 on BOS-PHL again

Kno wrote:

I also see an AA 332 on BOS-PHL again

That was scheduled before the suspensions began:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2020/

https://thepointsguy.com/news/where-us- ... spensions/
This article has all 3 airlines plans.

jayunited wrote:

Someone else in the now locked thread stated between the US3 this will be the most domestic widebody flying the U.S. has seen in over a decade.

You ain't kidding. It's reminding me of seeing 747's flying such "short" sectors as ORD-YYZ, ORD-MIA, etc. back in the 70's!!! Just incredible!

Midwestindy wrote:

I'm surprised that ORD-SFO is getting the nod. It has just 4x 738 tomorrow.

Vegas, baby!

The absence of upgauge to MCO is a surprise.

FedexL1011 wrote:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/where-us-airlines-are-flying-wide-bodies-idled-by-china-flight-suspensions/
This article has all 3 airlines plans.

.

MIflyer12 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

I'm surprised that ORD-SFO is getting the nod. It has just 4x 738 tomorrow.

Vegas, baby!

The absence of upgauge to MCO is a surprise.

They got a decent amount of WB activity already

04/17
CLT-MCO 2x WB (332/333)
PHL-MCO 1xWB (B763) one-way
MCO-LAX 1x WB (763) one-way

Wonder if the airlines are still planning on using widebody aircraft on domestic routes? Gonna be a lot of empty seats.

Wacko55 wrote:

Wonder if the airlines are still planning on using widebody aircraft on domestic routes? Gonna be a lot of empty seats.

Where else would they go?

Ishrion wrote:

Wacko55 wrote:

Wonder if the airlines are still planning on using widebody aircraft on domestic routes? Gonna be a lot of empty seats.

Where else would they go?

Parked on the ground.....

Wacko55 wrote:

Ishrion wrote:

Wacko55 wrote:

Wonder if the airlines are still planning on using widebody aircraft on domestic routes? Gonna be a lot of empty seats.

Where else would they go?

Parked on the ground.....

You got evidence to prove there are empty seats?

sunking737 wrote:

Also doesn't hurt that spring break is about to start. Bigger planes means more seats to fill to warm spots

For a two week period, these widebodies are in demand. For a short time it makes sense to use them domestically.

Due to a good economy (high demand) the US market has be under-served. So these widebodies will probably find a use for months to come (starting the ramp to the busy summer season (up from winter lows).

But year round? No.
The post memorial day slump in September needs these back on international routes and next winter they need to do normal duty.

But for now, there is a window of good demand.

Lightsaber