seat1a
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JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:26 am

Curious what the JB 'strategy' is at LGA. It appears from their schedules, they offer non-stop to BOS, MCO, FLL, and PBI. Question is whether these flights are optimal for the slots they have? Could they deploy their planes to other cities in the network to optimize revenue/profit?

Also, are they located in the Marine Terminal alone?

One other point, I've flown JB just twice (SEA-JFK) in Mint and loved the product and crews.
 
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LX015
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:01 am

Marine terminal only.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:06 am

What routes do you think would be more high yielding for them?
 
seat1a
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:55 am

Nicknuzzii wrote:
What routes do you think would be more high yielding for them?


I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?
 
rbavfan
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:19 am

seat1a wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
What routes do you think would be more high yielding for them?


I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 am

rbavfan wrote:
seat1a wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
What routes do you think would be more high yielding for them?


I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.


This. They're probably also losing money on LGA-BOS but that route fits into a larger picture with the hub at BOS.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:29 am

seat1a wrote:
Curious what the JB 'strategy' is at LGA. It appears from their schedules, they offer non-stop to BOS, MCO, FLL, and PBI. Question is whether these flights are optimal for the slots they have? Could they deploy their planes to other cities in the network to optimize revenue/profit?

Also, are they located in the Marine Terminal alone?

One other point, I've flown JB just twice (SEA-JFK) in Mint and loved the product and crews.


LGA's role right now is to maximize their relevance in their focus cities rather than necessarily achieve the optimized revenue/profit.

BOS got increased to 10x daily, because that's necessary to compete with AA/DL on the route.

FLL is kept around because it's their 3rd largest focus city. MCO is kept around because it's their 4th largest. PBI is kept around because it's a very important route for high yielding corporate types from NYC.

They simply don't have enough slots to be competitive on other obvious routes like DCA/ORD, so there is no reason to start them.

Let's say they get another 3 or 4 slots as part of divestiture DL/WS needs to make as part of their JV. I'd bet they'd increase BOS to 12 or 13 a day and FLL gets one of the slots back. The only one I could see them dropping is MCO since that demand can easily be filled by JFK. But they are probably keeping that one around since they've been talking about building out MCO after southern terminal opens.

Let's say they get even luckier and get another 6 slots from UA as part of a slot swap deal or lease. Then, I think you are likely to see the try LGA-DCA. They'd need about 7 slots to be competitive on that route, since both AA/DL have cut back on there.

btw, I did an analysis of their performance in NYC-BOS market adjusted for connections, LGA-BOS is actually better performing than both JFK/EWR-BOS when adjusted for O&D vs connection. So their move to use 10 of 16 slots to BOS is fine. They just need more slots to fill out the schedules.
 
twaconnie
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:41 pm

Will B6 stay a marine terminal after new construction of terminal B is finished?
 
Miamiairport
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:16 pm

I would think MCO drives significant business travel. It's one of the fastest growing cities in FL with respect to business. MCO by no means is just Disney anymore. AA opened a new AC there a few years ago.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:52 pm

twaconnie wrote:
Will B6 stay a marine terminal after new construction of terminal B is finished?



I would hope they stay and I know they are a fan of having their own special branded spaces. Question is how much more capacity can the MRT handle?
 
twaconnie
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:04 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
twaconnie wrote:
Will B6 stay a marine terminal after new construction of terminal B is finished?



I would hope they stay and I know they are a fan of having their own special branded spaces. Question is how much more capacity can the MRT handle?


The MAT has six gates four wide body capable should be able to handle 40+ departures a day.
 
ScottB
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:18 pm

twaconnie wrote:
The MAT has six gates four wide body capable should be able to handle 40+ departures a day.


The hold rooms aren't all that large, though. The MAT would be a zoo with 40 A320 departures a day. I suspect that would overwhelm the TSA checkpoint as well.

tphuang wrote:
btw, I did an analysis of their performance in NYC-BOS market adjusted for connections, LGA-BOS is actually better performing than both JFK/EWR-BOS when adjusted for O&D vs connection. So their move to use 10 of 16 slots to BOS is fine. They just need more slots to fill out the schedules.


At least they rethought that boneheaded strategy of "hourly departures from BOS to a pseudorandom NYC airport." The airports aren't interchangeable.
 
strfyr51
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:27 am

rbavfan wrote:
seat1a wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
What routes do you think would be more high yielding for them?


I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:39 am

strfyr51 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
seat1a wrote:

I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


AS doesn’t fly LGA-ORD... There would be no base on either side of the for B6, no way they would serve it.
 
seat1a
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:13 am

strfyr51 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
seat1a wrote:

I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


I tend to agree, especially if they offer a service 'premium' over UA, AA, and to a lesser extent DL. I was thinking JB could use slots to top business centers within the perimeter rule (i.e, ORD, DFW/DAL, IAH/HOU, MIA, ATL, CLT).
I think you mean AS into ORD form SEA, PDX and ANC?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:45 pm

seat1a wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


I tend to agree, especially if they offer a service 'premium' over UA, AA, and to a lesser extent DL. I was thinking JB could use slots to top business centers within the perimeter rule (i.e, ORD, DFW/DAL, IAH/HOU, MIA, ATL, CLT).
I think you mean AS into ORD form SEA, PDX and ANC?


If they had the slots, they would try LGA-ORD or LGA-DCA. There are concerns with both.
They can be competitive on LGA-DCA with probably 6 to 8 slots. DL is only running 9x there right now. The problem is that LGA-DCA faces competition from Accela, which is going to take more and more of the business away. I did an analysis adjusted for connection on LGA-DCA. Even without B6 competition, AA/DL get about the same yield as on LGA-BOS at the moment. So, it's not a market that B6 could really undercut. And the future of the market is not great given Accela is likely to take more market share away as time goes.

LGA-ORD would make more sense for them. But that route requires more slot to be competitive for the highest yielding passengers. Slots they simply don't have at the moment. And the other issue is their of lack of gates at ORD.

Having said that, LGA-ORD would still make sense for them. They've flown BOS-LGA for over 3 years now on a reduced schedule compared to AA/DL. Sure, they weren't able to get the highest fares, but their yield adjusted for connection is okay. And more importantly, it's important for them to serve the route for ff base and corporate client. And in order for
B6 to do better in NYC corporate market, they need to serve LGA-ORD if they have the slots.

I took a look at WN's yield on LGA-MDW which they run with at most 8 slots a day. And their yields are fine there given the importance of the market. So if they can get 6 to 8 more slots from somewhere, LGA-ORD has to be pretty high on their list. All the Florida leisure stuff can be flown from JFK/EWR.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:08 pm

what is lost here is they don’t have slots

Florida does best for them out of LaGuardia

The only reason they are bumping up Boston to high frequency is because they are in a war in Boston and trying to fight for the business customer in Boston… It has nothing to do with New York or trying to get business customers in New York

Furthermore, Jetblue was leasing two slots from virgin America. Somehow, in their hometown, Southwest came in and purchased ASs LGA operation and took the two leased slots back from B6 in Dec

Imagine B6 doing that in Dallas or Seattle...it is unthinkable.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:12 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:

ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


AS doesn’t fly LGA-ORD... There would be no base on either side of the for B6, no way they would serve it.


No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6
 
BlueBaller
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:46 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


AS doesn’t fly LGA-ORD... There would be no base on either side of the for B6, no way they would serve it.


No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6


No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.
 
ScottB
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:58 pm

tphuang wrote:
I took a look at WN's yield on LGA-MDW which they run with at most 8 slots a day. And their yields are fine there given the importance of the market. So if they can get 6 to 8 more slots from somewhere, LGA-ORD has to be pretty high on their list. All the Florida leisure stuff can be flown from JFK/EWR.


WN does well on MDW-LGA because they have a dedicated frequent traveler base in Chicago which prefers MDW and because they can supplement that demand with connections. B6 would have essentially zero feed at either end (routing passengers BOS-LGA-ORD is not high-yielding if you serve it non-stop). They'd be getting themselves into a four-way battle (ignoring WN at MDW) with zero advantage at either end of the route. DL has managed to become the preferred carrier at LGA while UA and AA together dominate ORD.

jfklganyc wrote:
The only reason they are bumping up Boston to high frequency is because they are in a war in Boston and trying to fight for the business customer in Boston… It has nothing to do with New York or trying to get business customers in New York


Ding ding ding ding ding. The Shuttles aren't the profit machines they once were thanks to Acela. Time was that DL and US were running all-coach 738s and A320s respectively on the Shuttle routes (and 727s before that). Now you're lucky to get something as large as an A319. The Shuttle isn't even hourly anymore on DL or AA between LGA and DCA; BOS remains hourly just because Acela to Boston is a fair bit slower than to D.C. from New York. These days, the value of the Shuttle is primarily convenience to important customers in the markets at either end -- and as you astutely pointed out, B6 is going to 10x daily between LGA and BOS for the Boston point-of-sale.

Offering hourly service that might drop you at LGA, JFK, or EWR just wasn't going to fly, if you pardon the pun.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:16 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I took a look at WN's yield on LGA-MDW which they run with at most 8 slots a day. And their yields are fine there given the importance of the market. So if they can get 6 to 8 more slots from somewhere, LGA-ORD has to be pretty high on their list. All the Florida leisure stuff can be flown from JFK/EWR.


WN does well on MDW-LGA because they have a dedicated frequent traveler base in Chicago which prefers MDW and because they can supplement that demand with connections. B6 would have essentially zero feed at either end (routing passengers BOS-LGA-ORD is not high-yielding if you serve it non-stop). They'd be getting themselves into a four-way battle (ignoring WN at MDW) with zero advantage at either end of the route. DL has managed to become the preferred carrier at LGA while UA and AA together dominate ORD.


JetBlue has strong point of sale in New York. Keep in mind that it's JFK-ORD flights were 90% O&D in Q3 and it gets higher yield than WN at LGA-MDW and AA at JFK-ORD when adjusted for connection. That's even higher O&D than BOS-LGA in the same quarter (about 80%). My only concern is whether that holds if they go from 2 to 6 flights a day.

At some point, JetBlue has to put big boy pants on in NYC. Now is as good of time as any with TATL flights a year away and AA cutting back at JFK.

I just don't see the point of using more LGA slots for Florida flights when they get better margin to Florida from both JFK and EWR.
 
seat1a
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:16 pm

tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I took a look at WN's yield on LGA-MDW which they run with at most 8 slots a day. And their yields are fine there given the importance of the market. So if they can get 6 to 8 more slots from somewhere, LGA-ORD has to be pretty high on their list. All the Florida leisure stuff can be flown from JFK/EWR.


WN does well on MDW-LGA because they have a dedicated frequent traveler base in Chicago which prefers MDW and because they can supplement that demand with connections. B6 would have essentially zero feed at either end (routing passengers BOS-LGA-ORD is not high-yielding if you serve it non-stop). They'd be getting themselves into a four-way battle (ignoring WN at MDW) with zero advantage at either end of the route. DL has managed to become the preferred carrier at LGA while UA and AA together dominate ORD.


JetBlue has strong point of sale in New York. Keep in mind that it's JFK-ORD flights were 90% O&D in Q3 and it gets higher yield than WN at LGA-MDW and AA at JFK-ORD when adjusted for connection. That's even higher O&D than BOS-LGA in the same quarter (about 80%). My only concern is whether that holds if they go from 2 to 6 flights a day.

At some point, JetBlue has to put big boy pants on in NYC. Now is as good of time as any with TATL flights a year away and AA cutting back at JFK.

I just don't see the point of using more LGA slots for Florida flights when they get better margin to Florida from both JFK and EWR.


Interesting about JFK-ORD. DL runs several flights a day, too. Is that mostly O&D or connecting? I'm curious now if there is pent-up demand for more ORD service, more BOS service, even MIA service from JFK than LGA?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:28 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:

AS doesn’t fly LGA-ORD... There would be no base on either side of the for B6, no way they would serve it.


No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6


No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.



LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.
 
BlueBaller
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:53 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6


No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.



LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:58 pm

seat1a wrote:
tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:

WN does well on MDW-LGA because they have a dedicated frequent traveler base in Chicago which prefers MDW and because they can supplement that demand with connections. B6 would have essentially zero feed at either end (routing passengers BOS-LGA-ORD is not high-yielding if you serve it non-stop). They'd be getting themselves into a four-way battle (ignoring WN at MDW) with zero advantage at either end of the route. DL has managed to become the preferred carrier at LGA while UA and AA together dominate ORD.


JetBlue has strong point of sale in New York. Keep in mind that it's JFK-ORD flights were 90% O&D in Q3 and it gets higher yield than WN at LGA-MDW and AA at JFK-ORD when adjusted for connection. That's even higher O&D than BOS-LGA in the same quarter (about 80%). My only concern is whether that holds if they go from 2 to 6 flights a day.

At some point, JetBlue has to put big boy pants on in NYC. Now is as good of time as any with TATL flights a year away and AA cutting back at JFK.

I just don't see the point of using more LGA slots for Florida flights when they get better margin to Florida from both JFK and EWR.


Interesting about JFK-ORD. DL runs several flights a day, too. Is that mostly O&D or connecting? I'm curious now if there is pent-up demand for more ORD service, more BOS service, even MIA service from JFK than LGA?


DL on JFK-ORD is in the mid 70s from what I can see. That's higher than I expected actually. But DL does run RJs here so there are less seats to fill. On LGA-ORD, I have DL close to 90% O&D also. AA is in the low 60s on JFK-ORD and high 70s on LGA-ORD.

In general, B6 runs a higher O&D operation out of JFK than AA/DL.
 
CaptCoolHand
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:44 am

CobaltScar wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6


No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.



LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


Actually lots of trips start and end in PBI. IT IS ALSO a co-domicile with FLL. The same as LGA with JFK.

Maybe you should stick to serving drinks. Or helping the drink servers lives matter more.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:27 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

No base? LGA is a crewbase for B6


No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.



LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


Actually he is absolutely right: it is a co-base with a Crewroom

Says so right in the Pilot contract

There’s no disputing those facts
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:28 pm

BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

No it's not. It's a co-domicile. JFK is the base. JFK has the admins, chief pilots, dedicated crew/quiet rooms, computers for checkin, employee parking. LGA has none of that. A few trips start and end out of LaGuardia and because of its proximity, is considered as such. That's like saying PBI is a JetBlue base.



LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



Actually, with regards to LGA, you are wrong.

It is a crew base
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:00 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:


LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



Actually, with regards to LGA, you are wrong.

It is a crew base

I think you guys are arguing semantics. The base is JFK. LGA is a co base. Travel to/from pairings beginning and ending in LGA is reimbursed for the cost of JFK to LGA and return transpo. And I’m not talking about the deadhead credit if the pairing ends at a different airport than it began. The reason LGA transpo is reimbursed is because the base is JFK. But LGA is a co-base, so if you want to argue it too is a base, then fine, but it’s an exercise in semantics. Still costs the company reimbursement money for anyone who claims it on concur for LGA trips because it isn’t the primary base.
 
BlueBaller
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Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:39 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:


LGA does have crew lounge, reserves have a responsible to cover it, and trips originate and end in LGA. Its nothing like PBI. Zero trips stat/end in PBI and zero reserve shifts start/end in PBI.


A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



Actually, with regards to LGA, you are wrong.

It is a crew base


LaGuardia is a base for those based in, and this might blow your mind, JFK. Nobody gets awarded a co-domicile. Those who start and end trips out of the LGA co-base are BASED out of JFK. I don't know why this is such a theoretical discussion. Ok, it has a crew room with a few lounge chairs. Was there TDY offered out of LaGuardia recently? How about a base chief pilot? IT Department? C'mon man.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:12 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
seat1a wrote:

I was looking for opinions as an answer to that question. Perhaps ORD or DCA?


ORD & DCA are both saturated from LGA. They would loose money.

I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!

AS and F8 both flew to CHI before B6 even existed, AS had FF partnership with AA and neither flys NYC-CHI. I don't think they can be compared.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5645
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:06 am

BlueBaller wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



Actually, with regards to LGA, you are wrong.

It is a crew base


LaGuardia is a base for those based in, and this might blow your mind, JFK. Nobody gets awarded a co-domicile. Those who start and end trips out of the LGA co-base are BASED out of JFK. I don't know why this is such a theoretical discussion. Ok, it has a crew room with a few lounge chairs. Was there TDY offered out of LaGuardia recently? How about a base chief pilot? IT Department? C'mon man.


There is a legal document signed by the Airline Pilots Association and the company that says you are wrong!

Plain and simple.

When you are wrong you are wrong.

The only reason you get paid for parking at Laguardia is because they do not have on airport parking...which is required

Beyond that, if you have a trip that starts and ends at LGA...you have a LGA trip from your base

And, if you choose to, you could do all of your trips at LGA.

When bidding, you can select LGA.

End of story
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:03 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The only reason you get paid for parking at Laguardia is because they do not have on airport parking...which is required


As a JFK based crewmember

jfklganyc wrote:
Beyond that, if you have a trip that starts and ends at LGA...you have a LGA trip from your base


As a JFK based crewmember

jfklganyc wrote:
And, if you choose to, you could do all of your trips at LGA.


As a JFK based crewmember

jfklganyc wrote:
When bidding, you can select LGA.


As a JFK based crewmember

jfklganyc wrote:
End of story


Cool story :thumbsup:
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4464
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:22 am

tphuang wrote:
seat1a wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
I see statements like this a lot but How can JBLU grow is they're alwys running FROM competition? They've got to getin there and take their best shot! If AS can go to ORD and F9 Can go to ORD? Then B6 can go to ORD!


I tend to agree, especially if they offer a service 'premium' over UA, AA, and to a lesser extent DL. I was thinking JB could use slots to top business centers within the perimeter rule (i.e, ORD, DFW/DAL, IAH/HOU, MIA, ATL, CLT).
I think you mean AS into ORD form SEA, PDX and ANC?


If they had the slots, they would try LGA-ORD or LGA-DCA. There are concerns with both.
They can be competitive on LGA-DCA with probably 6 to 8 slots. DL is only running 9x there right now. The problem is that LGA-DCA faces competition from Accela, which is going to take more and more of the business away. I did an analysis adjusted for connection on LGA-DCA. Even without B6 competition, AA/DL get about the same yield as on LGA-BOS at the moment. So, it's not a market that B6 could really undercut. And the future of the market is not great given Accela is likely to take more market share away as time goes.

LGA-ORD would make more sense for them. But that route requires more slot to be competitive for the highest yielding passengers. Slots they simply don't have at the moment. And the other issue is their of lack of gates at ORD.

Having said that, LGA-ORD would still make sense for them. They've flown BOS-LGA for over 3 years now on a reduced schedule compared to AA/DL. Sure, they weren't able to get the highest fares, but their yield adjusted for connection is okay. And more importantly, it's important for them to serve the route for ff base and corporate client. And in order for
B6 to do better in NYC corporate market, they need to serve LGA-ORD if they have the slots.

I took a look at WN's yield on LGA-MDW which they run with at most 8 slots a day. And their yields are fine there given the importance of the market. So if they can get 6 to 8 more slots from somewhere, LGA-ORD has to be pretty high on their list. All the Florida leisure stuff can be flown from JFK/EWR.

B6 cannot be Risk averse forever. They'll have to step up at some point and Say Here I AM and Here I will Remain! They are of No less of a disadvantage than WN is. They built themselves into a powerhouse and so can B6. You can't run from a fight forever and B6 will have to step up and take their shot rather than Cry and moan like a sissy! They wamt to fly to London yet they whine about NOT getting slots at LHR rather than Gatwick or Stanstead. How many other US carriers have just walked into Heathrow? YGBKM! If they Want to fly to London? Thern at least Establish service TO London by any means Necessary and quit Whining!!
 
11C
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:11 am

BlueBaller wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
BlueBaller wrote:

A lounge with 4 recliners hardly justifies the definition of a crew lounge, pal. It flows well with the original bones and the bowels of the MAT and we're the sole tenant there, so why not make it comfortable for you while you sit ASB. LAX has a crew room for Inflight/Flight too. Does that make LAX a base, too? No it makes it a co-domicile for LGB. As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



Actually, with regards to LGA, you are wrong.

It is a crew base


LaGuardia is a base for those based in, and this might blow your mind, JFK. Nobody gets awarded a co-domicile. Those who start and end trips out of the LGA co-base are BASED out of JFK. I don't know why this is such a theoretical discussion. Ok, it has a crew room with a few lounge chairs. Was there TDY offered out of LaGuardia recently? How about a base chief pilot? IT Department? C'mon man.


Just let them think they’re based at LGA, what’s the harm?
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:47 am

BlueBaller wrote:
As far as your last statement, I literally stopped counting after 10 the number of March Fxxxx pairings for day trips out of PBI to BOS, PVD, BDL, HPN, JFK, EWR, e.t.c. So you're wrong about that, too. FLL covers PBI because trips start/end at the PBI co-domicile. Are we done here?



There are zero Flight Attendant pairings that start or stop in PBI, but plenty that do in LGA. I see several others have corrected you further above, so yeah I think we are done now, pal.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:56 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
I think you guys are arguing semantics. The base is JFK. LGA is a co base. Travel to/from pairings beginning and ending in LGA is reimbursed for the cost of JFK to LGA and return transpo. And I’m not talking about the deadhead credit if the pairing ends at a different airport than it began. The reason LGA transpo is reimbursed is because the base is JFK. But LGA is a co-base, so if you want to argue it too is a base, then fine, but it’s an exercise in semantics. Still costs the company reimbursement money for anyone who claims it on concur for LGA trips because it isn’t the primary base.


There is no reimbursement for FAs to or from LGA, it operates as any satellite base would.
 
airplaneboy
Posts: 696
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:59 am

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:01 am

How many flights a day does B6 operate from LGA and to what is the frequency to each destination?
 
trueblew
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:08 am

Why are people getting their panties in a twist over semantics? NYC is a crew base and pilots and FAs are responsible to cover trips out of both JFK and LGA. Therefore LGA is a crew base. It's not like HPN where the company provides transpo because...wait for it...it's not a base.
 
N757ST
Posts: 932
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:20 am

trueblew wrote:
Why are people getting their panties in a twist over semantics? NYC is a crew base and pilots and FAs are responsible to cover trips out of both JFK and LGA. Therefore LGA is a crew base. It's not like HPN where the company provides transpo because...wait for it...it's not a base.


For the most part I agree. It’s a JFK crew base but LGA is considered a co base per the pilot CBA. If you are assigned or bid a LGA pairing the company will allow you to expense transportation to and from Kew area or if you’re a local you can expense parking because it’s cheaper then if the company bought the entire pilot group employee parking stickers. In the end the outcome is the same, you are allowed to start and end pairings in LGA. It’s also true that it doesn’t offer crew member support. No IT department exists or the like. No “crew room”... sorry that closet doesn’t count. No chiefs, no admins, and hell no drug testing room so I don’t even know where they’d do that. It’s not a NYC base, no where is it coded that way ala Delta, but none the less it is a de facto JFK/LGA base with some support to get to and from LGA.
 
tphuang
Posts: 4129
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:00 pm

airplaneboy wrote:
How many flights a day does B6 operate from LGA and to what is the frequency to each destination?


In a little while, it will go to 10x BOS, 2x FLL/MCO/PBI. 16 total slots.

strfyr51 wrote:
B6 cannot be Risk averse forever. They'll have to step up at some point and Say Here I AM and Here I will Remain! They are of No less of a disadvantage than WN is. They built themselves into a powerhouse and so can B6. You can't run from a fight forever and B6 will have to step up and take their shot rather than Cry and moan like a sissy! They wamt to fly to London yet they whine about NOT getting slots at LHR rather than Gatwick or Stanstead. How many other US carriers have just walked into Heathrow? YGBKM! If they Want to fly to London? Thern at least Establish service TO London by any means Necessary and quit Whining!!

If whining can get them slots at LHR cheaply, then by all means, they should whine as much as they can.
 
BlueBaller
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:07 pm

Re: JetBlue at LGA Question

Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:09 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
There are zero Flight Attendant pairings that start or stop in PBI, but plenty that do in LGA. I see several others have corrected you further above, so yeah I think we are done now, pal.


So all along we've been talking about Fight Attendant pairings this whole time? Got it. Hopefully when they make those final cuts to the LGB station, people can simply bid over to LAX since a base is a base is a base.

N757ST wrote:
It’s a JFK crew base but LGA is considered a co base per the pilot CBA. If you are assigned or bid a LGA pairing the company will allow you to expense transportation to and from Kew area or if you’re a local you can expense parking because it’s cheaper then if the company bought the entire pilot group employee parking stickers. In the end the outcome is the same, you are allowed to start and end pairings in LGA. It’s also true that it doesn’t offer crew member support. No IT department exists or the like. No “crew room”... sorry that closet doesn’t count. No chiefs, no admins, and hell no drug testing room so I don’t even know where they’d do that. It’s not a NYC base, no where is it coded that way ala Delta, but none the less it is a de facto JFK/LGA base with some support to get to and from LGA.


Exactly the point I've been trying to make all along.

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