LondonXtreme
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Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:01 am

I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?
 
AirFiero
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:00 pm

This might turn into an interesting discussion
 
ericm2031
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:29 pm

They're opening a lounge, so it's definitely very important to them. They're also adding SFO-GEG/RDM/ANC but are cutting KOA/MSY. I think they're still trying to fine tune what works and what doesn't. With AA and OW coming, that could potentially help out their SFO routes to an extent.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:32 pm

SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.

KOA and MSY are medium haul and leisure routes so it doesn’t mean anything to give them the chop. If anything it means AS are doubling down on SFO, to deploy those planes to more lucrative cities.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
donindc
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:05 pm

I believe the MSY route is a seasonal suspension for summer (low season at MSY) and slated to return in the Fall.
 
jplatts
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:08 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


UA has a hub at SFO and WN has focus cities at OAK and SJC in the San Francisco Bay Area.

There are also a few nonstop domestic routes out of the San Francisco Bay Area that aren't served nonstop from SFO, OAK, or SJC on UA, WN, or AS such as SFO-CLT on AA, SFO-CVG on DL, OAK-BLI on G4, and OAK-IDA on G4.
 
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psa1011
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:09 pm

I do think it's strange that AS can't make KOA work from SFO, but they can from OAK/SJC. It seems like they would want to keep it to compete with UA.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:11 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


Do you have a list of net changes by routes and frequencies from the close of the acquisition to the present? Even a net number of daily flights?
 
pmanni1
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:30 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


Do you have a list of net changes by routes and frequencies from the close of the acquisition to the present? Even a net number of daily flights?

AS also dropped MCI and ABQ from SFO and BNA, RDU, PHL and BWI all went down to seasonal. Having a hard time making eastern cities work. https://thepointsguy.com/news/alaska-ai ... t-shakeup/
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:49 pm

cedarjet wrote:
it’s California’s business city...


It isn't. Ten seconds with stats on GDP shows the LA MSA has nearly a 2:1 advantage v. the San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward MSA. It doesn't matter if you include San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, either. If you knew the typical composition of U.S. GDP you'd know San Francisco couldn't have a bigger business sector by that detail alone.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:02 pm

cedarjet wrote:
SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.


Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.

Now with oneworld, AS has basically confirmed this airline will just be a regional lower 50 state feeder for AA
Last edited by SocalApproach on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:03 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
it’s California’s business city...


It isn't. Ten seconds with stats on GDP shows the LA MSA has nearly a 2:1 advantage v. the San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward MSA. It doesn't matter if you include San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, either. If you knew the typical composition of U.S. GDP you'd know San Francisco couldn't have a bigger business sector by that detail alone.


He didn’t say SFO was THE California business city. LA market is obviously larger. But the Bay Area is an important business market.

Actually, yeah, on second reading he does seem to be implying that.
Last edited by AirFiero on Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:04 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


Do you have a list of net changes by routes and frequencies from the close of the acquisition to the present? Even a net number of daily flights?

AS also dropped MCI and ABQ from SFO and BNA, RDU, PHL and BWI all went down to seasonal. Having a hard time making eastern cities work. https://thepointsguy.com/news/alaska-ai ... t-shakeup/


These routes would exist if AS could find a way to fly an RJ there.... :duck:

ericm2031 wrote:
They're opening a lounge, so it's definitely very important to them. They're also adding SFO-GEG/RDM/ANC but are cutting KOA/MSY. I think they're still trying to fine tune what works and what doesn't. With AA and OW coming, that could potentially help out their SFO routes to an extent.


They opened a lounge in JFK and had all the AS fanboys believing the hype. Now take a look at the JFK schedule. I cant get into JFK from SFO until 6pm and AS only operates 3 flights per day as opposed to 5 flights per day when VX was a standalone carrier.....
 
AirFiero
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:13 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.


Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.


Here’s a thought on B6, SFO and the west coast. With B6 pulling back at LGB, were they ever really a west coat threat in the first place? What other intra-west-coast stuff is B6 doing...anything??
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:23 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.


Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.


Here’s a thought on B6, SFO and the west coast. With B6 pulling back at LGB, were they ever really a west coat threat in the first place? What other intra-west-coast stuff is B6 doing...anything??


Getting 60 frames from VX and gates/slots would have gave B6 the opening they desperately need to grow on the west coast. I can confidently say they would not have done the reciprocal of what AS is doing which is pull back the California operation in exchange for RJs and parked 737MAXs. A larger VX on the west coast now apart of B6 would have been disastrous for AS. The frequency, the service, almost everything would have immediately dwarfed AS.
 
United1
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.


Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.


Here’s a thought on B6, SFO and the west coast. With B6 pulling back at LGB, were they ever really a west coat threat in the first place? What other intra-west-coast stuff is B6 doing...anything??


Imagine B6 with hubs at LAX, SFO and a focus city in LGB vs the pre merger AS presence. AS might have been able to hold their own at both cities but they certainly would not have been able to grow. The VX merger also gave AS aircraft to help deal with the DL "incursion" at SEA. Without the merger I think a realistic scenario would have been AS pulling down SFO/LAX in order to fortify SEA.

I don't think AS is doing badly at SFO but I do think we are seeing a relatively mature network from them at this point. With AA moving to T1 AS is gaining a couple of gates in T2 in order to consolidate their operations and building a new club to replace the Admirals Club they were using. I'm not seeing a lot of room at SFO for AS to continue to grow at this point.
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Aliqiout
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:50 pm

AirFiero wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
SFO is the reason Alaska bought Virgin America. All that tech traffic, it’s California’s business city, and lots of wealthy locals.


Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.


Here’s a thought on B6, SFO and the west coast. With B6 pulling back at LGB, were they ever really a west coat threat in the first place? What other intra-west-coast stuff is B6 doing...anything??

They aren't doing anything because AS didn't let them buy VX. It looks like AS's plan is working.
 
AirFiero
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:03 pm

Aliqiout wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
SocalApproach wrote:

Except it isn't. This is just a false narrative that has been put to rest over the last 12+ months by looking at what AS is doing. They bought Virgin America because they had to because Having B6 on the west coast also while DL is building up SEA at the time would have been the beginning of the end for AS.Their decision making since the acquisition has clearly backed this statement up. I try to see both sides of the argument and I have since submitted to the fact that maybe AS did want to be more than SEA/PDX/PNW but the mainline fleet is shrinking and the regional fleet is expanding so the expansion outside of SEA appears to be abandoned. California has been reduced to mostly RJ flying while AS pulls the mainline fleet back to defend SEA.


Here’s a thought on B6, SFO and the west coast. With B6 pulling back at LGB, were they ever really a west coat threat in the first place? What other intra-west-coast stuff is B6 doing...anything??

They aren't doing anything because AS didn't let them buy VX. It looks like AS's plan is working.


Ok, good points all. More of a defensive move, plus the additional aircraft.
 
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psa1011
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:25 pm

In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?
 
United1
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:31 pm

psa1011 wrote:
In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?


No they won't have all of T2 to themselves...AS is getting 2 or 3 additional gates but UA is getting the rest.
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lavalampluva
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:33 pm

UA has been chipping way at what AS had at SFO. They’ve been taking more of the transcontinental flights.
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usxguy
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:34 pm

psa1011 wrote:
I do think it's strange that AS can't make KOA work from SFO, but they can from OAK/SJC. It seems like they would want to keep it to compete with UA.


Its timed for nothing more than local traffic, which boggles my mind. If it arrived 2 hours earlier they can get some connection traffic on it. But a 1230am arrival is a hair late.
xx
 
tiptoe42
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:41 pm

Judging by transcon loads out of SFO and the cutting of routes and downsizing to regional aircraft the new “plan” is probably at least in part because they can’t get anyone to fly on them out of SFO.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:42 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
Getting 60 frames from VX and gates/slots would have gave B6 the opening they desperately need to grow on the west coast. I can confidently say they would not have done the reciprocal of what AS is doing which is pull back the California operation in exchange for RJs and parked 737MAXs. A larger VX on the west coast now apart of B6 would have been disastrous for AS. The frequency, the service, almost everything would have immediately dwarfed AS.


Except JetBlue was going to wipe out everything VX and make it all their standard Core, with the exceptions of the Neos.

So it would have been painful, but I think it might have even been 10x more disastrous for JetBlue, if their LGB loads are any indication, and the loss of the Hawaiian partnership, had B6 gotten Virgin America.
xx
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:51 pm

AS is going 2x daily on SFO-SLC. I think SFO for AS is just about feeding what’s successful right now and not starting new routes that are high risk but could rather cater to the locals, frequent flyers, and their overall west coast focus. I still think AS needs to build brand loyalty so these news routes and the existing ones are doing just that.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:54 pm

pmanni1 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


Do you have a list of net changes by routes and frequencies from the close of the acquisition to the present? Even a net number of daily flights?

AS also dropped MCI and ABQ from SFO and BNA, RDU, PHL and BWI all went down to seasonal. Having a hard time making eastern cities work. https://thepointsguy.com/news/alaska-ai ... t-shakeup/


MSP, DEN, IND also cut, RDU/BNA are permanent, MSY & FLL pulled down to seasonal
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Aliqiout
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:42 am

Anybody have the raw number of flights for AS at SFO now, and AS+VX just before the merger?
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:48 am

I am seeing 3 Alaska Airlines threads lately. This one does not have a news link.

Suggest deletion as most other topics are that do not have links.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:50 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I am seeing 3 Alaska Airlines threads lately. This one does not have a news link.

Suggest deletion as most other topics are that do not have links.

Why does this thread need a news link? It’s not required.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:52 am

AS service on board is far superior than any carrier bar none .. Flying on them evokes memories of the 60's when flying was special and passengers were treated as such.
 
Flaps
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:58 am

VX wasn't exactly hitting it out of the park at SFO either. Cuts had to come regardless. As for B6 doing any better, that's almost laughable. They can't effectively manage their existing operation let alone the complexities and intricacies of a merger and an operation on the other side of the country. AS did what it had to do for its own survival with regard to the acquisition and it is simply continuing that process by reducing the fat remaining from that acquisition.
 
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psa1011
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:56 am

United1 wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?


No they won't have all of T2 to themselves...AS is getting 2 or 3 additional gates but UA is getting the rest.


Will there be an airside connector between D & E?
 
tphuang
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:05 am

Flaps wrote:
VX wasn't exactly hitting it out of the park at SFO either. Cuts had to come regardless. As for B6 doing any better, that's almost laughable. They can't effectively manage their existing operation let alone the complexities and intricacies of a merger and an operation on the other side of the country. AS did what it had to do for its own survival with regard to the acquisition and it is simply continuing that process by reducing the fat remaining from that acquisition.

It's amazing how quickly people get offended that JetBlue might do something well.
 
jonair8
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:12 am

Alaska's plans for expansion in each city have been somewhat of a running mystery. A few years ago AS was highly interested in expanding in the state of California with hubs in LAX and SFO and focus cities in SJC and SAN. They wanted to diversify their route portfolio and not have all their eggs in the 1 SEA basket. Today, that plan is all but reversed as they now have either cut routes that did not work as they hoped, or have just kept these cities their current size as opposed to continuing to expand them. The focus is now SEA getting hardcore growth to fend of DL and to try to hang on to as many gates through POS's gate algorithm.

I hope one day AS will actually make a real effort in SFO. They could definitely give UA some good competition. So far, it would appear they took what VX made and right sized all the routes it to make it more profitable. Expand modestly where AS already does well, and cutting markets that do not perform. It would appear AS is working on trying to do the simple stuff well out of SFO and trying to achieve guests on the profitable routes, then they will one day again slowly expand out of SFO, especially once they begin to take on more aircraft. Today, SFO is still decently sized for AS.

I just hope that one day AS will be a more formidable competitor to UA in SFO. It is a market that AS could definitely grow in. Based off AS's trigger happy changes to their network plans lately, who knows if AS will actually take the opportunity.
 
tiptoe42
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:21 am

crjflyboy wrote:
AS service on board is far superior than any carrier bar none .. Flying on them evokes memories of the 60's when flying was special and passengers were treated as such.


I don’t even know what to say...
:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :D
 
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admanager
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:24 am

crjflyboy wrote:
AS service on board is far superior than any carrier bar none .. Flying on them evokes memories of the 60's when flying was special and passengers were treated as such.

Starting with the pre-departure drinks in F on AS...oh wait they don't do that.
OK lets look at Y;
Premium snacks in Premium Y on AS is kind bars and a knock off cheese cracker. That's the basic snack options on DL. Comfort+ on Delta includes fresh fruit, chips and more.
Since the merger with Virgin, they've lost the hot meal option in Y too which is a big loss.
I'm Seattle based and MVP on AS but Platinum (for over 10 consecutive years) on DL because Alaska is just average.
And don't get me started on the AS web site and no PTV's.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:36 am

tiptoe42 wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
AS service on board is far superior than any carrier bar none .. Flying on them evokes memories of the 60's when flying was special and passengers were treated as such.


I don’t even know what to say...
:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :D


How about the 35 other publications that say the same thing ?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelgol ... 78dde06bd4
 
United1
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:52 am

psa1011 wrote:
United1 wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?


No they won't have all of T2 to themselves...AS is getting 2 or 3 additional gates but UA is getting the rest.


Will there be an airside connector between D & E?


Yes....they are either building one or will be shortly. You will be able to walk all the way from D to G.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
Flaps
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:50 am

tphuang wrote:
Flaps wrote:
VX wasn't exactly hitting it out of the park at SFO either. Cuts had to come regardless. As for B6 doing any better, that's almost laughable. They can't effectively manage their existing operation let alone the complexities and intricacies of a merger and an operation on the other side of the country. AS did what it had to do for its own survival with regard to the acquisition and it is simply continuing that process by reducing the fat remaining from that acquisition.

It's amazing how quickly people get offended that JetBlue might do something well.


Can you provide any credible evidence that would imply they could?
 
joemac547
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:37 am

Will there be an airside connector between D & E?[/quote]

Yes....they are either building one or will be shortly. You will be able to walk all the way from D to G.[/quote]

Since there already is an airside connector from C to D, that means you can get from Delta in C all the way to the Intl carriers in G without leaving the sterile area.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:04 am

admanager wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
AS service on board is far superior than any carrier bar none .. Flying on them evokes memories of the 60's when flying was special and passengers were treated as such.

Starting with the pre-departure drinks in F on AS...oh wait they don't do that.
OK lets look at Y;
Premium snacks in Premium Y on AS is kind bars and a knock off cheese cracker. That's the basic snack options on DL. Comfort+ on Delta includes fresh fruit, chips and more.
Since the merger with Virgin, they've lost the hot meal option in Y too which is a big loss.
I'm Seattle based and MVP on AS but Platinum (for over 10 consecutive years) on DL because Alaska is just average.
And don't get me started on the AS web site and no PTV's.


I couldn't care less about these laundry lists. I fly AS rather than DL because AS personnel, as a whole, go the extra mile far more often. This is somewhat true in flight, but spectacularly true on the ground and on the phone. All of the US legacies have cost-cut their way into horrendous off-aircraft service, and AS has not yet managed to do so.
 
KFTG
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:11 am

AS bought VX for one reason only: to deny B6 the assets they would have gotten in a B6/VX merger.
 
oosnowrat
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:19 am

jonair8 wrote:
So far, it would appear they took what VX made and right sized all the routes it to make it more profitable. Expand modestly where AS already does well, and cutting markets that do not perform.


This. If there is a "struggle" in SFO, it has been to make the VX operation financially sustainable. AS seems to be doing better at it than VX did.
 
questions
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:21 am

United1 wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?


No they won't have all of T2 to themselves...AS is getting 2 or 3 additional gates but UA is getting the rest.


Who will get the T1 C gates AA is using? Does DL want/need them? It’s interesting that T1C is the last of the terminals to be rebuilt/remodeled (excluding the work in the Intl terminal).
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:47 am

LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


Why did AS bother to try stuff like SFO-ABQ/BNA/IND/MCI/MSP/RDU anyways?!? The AS brand is quite unknown in the Midwest and South...

Now the airline is playing to its strengths, with additions like SFO-ANC/GEG/PAE/RDM that make sense. Perhaps routes like SFO-EUG/LGB/MFR/ONT/PSC/RNO/SBA may be worth considering as well. Additions like those, in turn, may be able to bolster hub feed enough to bring back something like SFO-KOA...
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
hereandthere41
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:50 am

psa1011 wrote:
In four weeks AS will have all of T2 at SFO to itself, although they seem to be shrinking. Meanwhile B6 now has more room to grow at Harvey Milk - did AS really stymie B6 growth potential?


Uh, no they won't. United is slated to get at least two D gates once AA moves. There's a reason why the new airside walkway between D and E is under construction.
United is about to do to AS what AS did to them in the SEA North Satellite several years ago. Gate by gate...
 
tphuang
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:17 pm

Flaps wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Flaps wrote:
VX wasn't exactly hitting it out of the park at SFO either. Cuts had to come regardless. As for B6 doing any better, that's almost laughable. They can't effectively manage their existing operation let alone the complexities and intricacies of a merger and an operation on the other side of the country. AS did what it had to do for its own survival with regard to the acquisition and it is simply continuing that process by reducing the fat remaining from that acquisition.

It's amazing how quickly people get offended that JetBlue might do something well.


Can you provide any credible evidence that would imply they could?



You can never know what would've happened if B6 would have merged with VX. Obviously, there was a price that B6 felt comfortable given the other challenges in their network. But I could definitely have seen a couple of scenarios where this would've worked out.

First of all, VX made a lot of money in transcon markets that were not seeing anything more than domestic first. And the margins from those markets allowed them to finally turn a profit despite having a high CASM product with FC that was too luxurious for short haul. The reason this model died was because B6 added mint in a bunch of markets that had no lie flat product before. So if VX and B6 merged, mint expansion that we saw would not have happened. It would've remained just in JFK/BOS-LAX/SFO allowing VX product to continue to shine in markets like IAD/FLL-LAX/SFO or JFK/BOS-SAN/LAS. Maybe they could've put mint on LAX/SFO-HNL.

VX's prime time JFK slots + LGA/DCA slots would've helped B6 in allowing them to expand on BOS-LGA/DCA shuttle without sacrificing other routes, which have been a drain on their resources.

If they had the extra SFO/LAX gates, they would've been more focused on west coast, which most likely meant they would've not entered ATL and MSP until much later. DL buildup in BOS was triggered by the news of B6 entrance into ATL. To this day, ATL and MSP have been huge drain on their resources. A slower buildup in BOS likely would not have triggered legacy response in the market and kept the yield at BOS higher than what it is now.

Over at west coast, having additional LAX gates would've allowed them to drawdown LGB operation much sooner. They wasted a lot of money trying to slot squat back in 2017/2018 which would not have happened had LAX gates being available. Since VX was already in many of the intra-west coast markets, they could've just replaced those aircraft with E90s which would've worked a lot better on markets like SFO-LAX/SAN/PSP. These would still have been a drain on resources, but not any more than LGB's intra west coast stuff. And they could've put many of those A319/A320s with large FC cabin on midcon markets or non-premium transcon markets out of JFK/BOS where JetBlue currently have problems in.

And I know this is hard for AS supporters to admit, but the culture/product between B6 and VX was a better match. A lot of VX ff who did not stick around with AS would've stuck around with B6.

Now, you could disagree with the scenario I listed. But to say there is no way they could've made it work is absolutely ridiculous. I think AS could've made this merger with VX work a lot better if they had added markets slowly out of SFO instead of using the dart board strategy to trigger UA response. How many of those routes they added have stuck around as full year daily flights?
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:43 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
These routes would exist if AS could find a way to fly an RJ there.... :duck


Your wish could soon be granted...lots of aircraft options being looked at by AS.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:22 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


SFO is extremely important; the markets cut have really only been the ones AS initially added following the VX acquisition, and they continue to tinker with SFO and the Bay Area in general. But to be clear, SFO remains a huge part of the AS network and will grow under the new 5 year plan. More to come.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1533
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Re: Is Alaska struggling at SFO?

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:20 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
I just feel that SFO is becoming less important in AS's network and will eventually be downgraded to focus city.

Why AS cut so many routes from SFO in post VA and AS merger era?


SFO is extremely important; the markets cut have really only been the ones AS initially added following the VX acquisition, and they continue to tinker with SFO and the Bay Area in general. But to be clear, SFO remains a huge part of the AS network and will grow under the new 5 year plan. More to come.


Is SJC planned to grow much?

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