93Sierra
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:01 pm

Fokker 50 in the US

Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:33 pm

Why was the Fokker 50 not used in the US? How did it compare with the Dash 8 economics?
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:52 pm

93Sierra wrote:
Why was the Fokker 50 not used in the US? How did it compare with the Dash 8 economics?


One has to go back to that period in time ... a lot of competition existed for this niche market.

BAE ATP - JETSTREAM 61

https://www.baesystems.com/en/heritage/ ... tstream-61

ATR aircraft

DASH 8

SAAB 2000

https://saab.com/civil-aerospace/region ... saab-2000/

Then add on top of that ... BOMBARDIER was courting airlines for their new RJ.

Fokker produced a great plane, extremely rugged, tried and true but too many manufacturers chasing a very small pie back then.
 
factsonly
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:29 pm

crjflyboy wrote:

One has to go back to that period in time ...

- BAE ATP
- ATR

Fokker produced a great plane, extremely rugged, tried and true


This part is correct.

In the mid-1980's, long before the Dash 8-300 and Saab 2000 were born, the Fokker 50 was considered the Rolls-Royce of the turboprops; great quality at a price.
Prior to deregulation, this was exactly what European airlines like Lufthansa, Swissair, KLM, Austrian and SAS were asking Fokker to build as an F27-Mk500 replacement..

By the time US airlines were considering 50-seat turboprops, deregulation had taken place in the USA.
This resulted in new competition and 'price' buying of new aircraft by US carriers.
The brand new, smaller and cheaper ATR42 came on the market just at this time.
And.... ATR captured the US market.

The Fokker 50 history in a nutshell.

and aircraft information:

https://www.fokkerservices.com/media/z0 ... ooklet.pdf
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6867
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:35 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
93Sierra wrote:
Why was the Fokker 50 not used in the US? How did it compare with the Dash 8 economics?


One has to go back to that period in time ... a lot of competition existed for this niche market.

BAE ATP - JETSTREAM 61

https://www.baesystems.com/en/heritage/ ... tstream-61

ATR aircraft

DASH 8

SAAB 2000

https://saab.com/civil-aerospace/region ... saab-2000/

Then add on top of that ... BOMBARDIER was courting airlines for their new RJ.

Fokker produced a great plane, extremely rugged, tried and true but too many manufacturers chasing a very small pie back then.


Dash 8s (Horizon), ATRs (American Eagle) and Saab 330/340 (Delta Connection, Northwest Airlink) were operating in the U.S. in the 80s and early 90s. I don't recall Jetstream 61s in any numbers, nor Saab 2000s in the U.S. in that era.
 
crjflyboy
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Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:58 pm

 
drdisque
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Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:06 pm

Also remember that Comair, Skywest, Continental Express, and ASA had a combined fleet of several hundred E-120s. For the cost of adding the F50 they could just run more flights on the much cheaper Brasilia.

Then Comair and ASA were both essentially launch customers of the CRJ.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:51 pm

drdisque wrote:
Also remember that Comair, Skywest, Continental Express, and ASA had a combined fleet of several hundred E-120s. For the cost of adding the F50 they could just run more flights on the much cheaper Brasilia.

Then Comair and ASA were both essentially launch customers of the CRJ.


Actually is was the Lufthansa subsidiary Cityline being the launch customer for the RJ when it was on the drawing board ... then followed up by Comair and Skywest

The very first idea for the RJ was proposed in 1980 as a 36 pax version.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:08 pm

I never flew on a Fokker 50 ... did fly on Ozark F 27'S with the dart engines ... it was quite loud.

F 100'S flew just twice on them when US AIR operated them.
 
MohawkWeekend
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:06 pm

Re: Fokker 50 in the US

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 am

I've wondered if the F50 had a similar reputation as the FH-227 did in the States. For some reason, the CV-580 and the YS-11 had longer careers than the FH-227. Good aircraft but perhaps overbuilt and slow. I was thinking maybe it was the cost of RR spares but then the YS-11 had them too. Enjoyed flying on all of them.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    factsonly
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    Re: Fokker 50 in the US

    Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:27 am

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    I've wondered if the F50 had a similar reputation as the FH-227 did in the States. For some reason, the CV-580 and the YS-11 had longer careers than the FH-227. Good aircraft but perhaps overbuilt and slow. I was thinking maybe it was the cost of RR spares but then the YS-11 had them too. Enjoyed flying on all of them.


    The Fairchild-Hillier FH-227 was a US built and stretched development of the original Fokker F27, and has little to do with the Fokker 50.

    Fairchild built the F-27 under license from Fokker since 1958.
    When Fairchild merged with Hiller Aircraft, the designation of the airplane was changed to FH-227 and the fuselage was stretched by six feet, giving increased cabin space for passengers and freight.
     
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    N14AZ
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    Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

    Re: Fokker 50 in the US

    Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:44 am

    So is it correct, not a single F50 has been registered in the USA?
     
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    SXI899
    Posts: 242
    Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:02 pm

    Re: Fokker 50 in the US

    Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:57 am

    N14AZ wrote:
    So is it correct, not a single F50 has been registered in the USA?

    Interestingly there has been one or two that were placed on the US register.
    If I recall correctly, they were lease returns and even flew with N numbers.

    Edit: Found a photo of one in the database

    We deliver......
     
    F27500
    Posts: 791
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    Re: Fokker 50 in the US

    Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:05 pm

    The 80s saw the Fokker F27 really explode in popularity here in the US (MVA, Pilgrim/Business Express, FedEx, Suburban, Midstate, Mesaba, Air Wisconsin, Chicago Air) and abroad as well so I thought Fokker got a little cocky and rode the F27 wave rather than having started the F50 development sooner. If they had, the F50 could have been the ATR of its time.
     
    MO11
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    Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm

    Re: Fokker 50 in the US

    Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:09 pm

    SXI899 wrote:
    Interestingly there has been one or two that were placed on the US register.
    If I recall correctly, they were lease returns and even flew with N numbers.


    Actually, Bombardier took these as trade-ins. They were only registered for a short time before being sent to Blue Bird.


    F27500 wrote:
    The 80s saw the Fokker F27 really explode in popularity here in the US (MVA, Pilgrim/Business Express, FedEx, Suburban, Midstate, Mesaba, Air Wisconsin, Chicago Air) and abroad as well so I thought Fokker got a little cocky and rode the F27 wave rather than having started the F50 development sooner.


    There actually wasn't that much of a wave. The only new airplanes (IIRC) were Midstate's four, Swift Aire's three, Suburban's two, Mississippi Valley's one, and Air Wisconsin's 14. The remaining airplanes were second hand (most of Pilgrim's were built in 1958).

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