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Jungleneer
Topic Author
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Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:13 pm

Was under the impression that the A220 was performing well, but it seems that there are some issues with Delta fleet.

https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/

Does anyone have more information?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:29 pm

These data aren't corrected for departure or arrival airport. Amateurs. Just worthless 'analysis'.
 
dstblj52
Posts: 457
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:30 pm

It's a wholly new aircraft with a company who haven't done many of them, plus it's doing a lot of short shuttle routes in the Northeast. Those numbers need to improve and hopefully with time they will.
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:36 pm

There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.
 
Jungleneer
Topic Author
Posts: 56
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:45 pm

sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.


I supposed that this was the issue.
 
Amiga500
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:46 pm

sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.


There might be now.

2 weeks ago there was no cash for improving anything.
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:58 pm

So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:37 pm

Amiga500 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.


There might be now.

2 weeks ago there was no cash for improving anything.


Money wasn’t the only problem. Bombardier doesn't have a robust customer support division like Airbus and Boeing do that is used to working with large network airlines. Airbus is taking over the Customer Support for the A220, but the Airbus engineers don’t have the engineering experience with the design and certification processes used by Bombardier. Bombardier was under such financial pressure that many people from the engineering teams that designed the airplane are gone. It’s creating a significant challenge to support the plane. It’s hard to improve reliability where components may not be meeting reliability targets since the people who designed and understand the systems are gone.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:42 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.
 
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proudavgeek
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:52 pm

Just using "conditional formatting" in excel and calling it "Analysis", this author must be in the business of Marketing first and Analysis second (or even Third!) LOL...


Data needs to be adjusted, acceptable ranges need to be establishes, similar benchmarks need to be compared with, in order to make this worthwhile... Otherwise, if you torture the numbers enough, they will tell you what you want to hear..
Last edited by proudavgeek on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Prost
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:54 pm

The A220 flies a lot into SEA and SFO which have had significant delays this winter. I’m not putting all the blame on these airports, but it can be a factor.
 
Prost
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:56 pm

Which makes it ironic that Misubishi purchased the CRJ program to buy a customer support operation.
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.


There might be now.

2 weeks ago there was no cash for improving anything.


Money wasn’t the only problem. Bombardier doesn't have a robust customer support division like Airbus and Boeing do that is used to working with large network airlines. Airbus is taking over the Customer Support for the A220, but the Airbus engineers don’t have the engineering experience with the design and certification processes used by Bombardier. Bombardier was under such financial pressure that many people from the engineering teams that designed the airplane are gone. It’s creating a significant challenge to support the plane. It’s hard to improve reliability where components may not be meeting reliability targets since the people who designed and understand the systems are gone.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:57 pm

Last I heard from 'my man in ATL' is that the latest DL internal memo refers to "unforeseen reliability issues with the plastic parts" and "having to supplement" the A221 fleet with some of the ex-NW [secretly] mothballed DC-9/30s..... (:-o
 
Prost
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:01 pm

The DC9-30 was the first plane I worked back in 1989, and dammit, it’ll be the last one I work in 15 years!
 
Etheereal
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:14 pm

Prost wrote:
The DC9-30 was the first plane I worked back in 1989, and dammit, it’ll be the last one I work in 15 years!

What does that mean?
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2645
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:20 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Prost wrote:
The DC9-30 was the first plane I worked back in 1989, and dammit, it’ll be the last one I work in 15 years!

What does that mean?


The things go on forever
 
EBiafore99
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:43 pm

Attached is an article about the A-220. It appears there have been some engine reliability issues.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/de ... ngers.html
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:48 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article about the A-220. It appears there have been some engine reliability issues.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/de ... ngers.html


INC is a gossip magazine at this point. Their aviation pieces are opinionated, vague, and all around shoddy. Skift does much better analysis in general.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:11 pm

maps4ltd wrote:
EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article about the A-220. It appears there have been some engine reliability issues.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/de ... ngers.html


INC is a gossip magazine at this point. Their aviation pieces are opinionated, vague, and all around shoddy. Skift does much better analysis in general.


Engine issues wouldn’t be surprising, the GTF isn’t very reliable currently.
 
ASMVPGOLD
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:15 pm

Prost wrote:
The A220 flies a lot into SEA and SFO which have had significant delays this winter. I’m not putting all the blame on these airports, but it can be a factor.


SFO is known for delays when the weather is anything by clear VFR but SEA (since building the 3rd runway) rarely has delays. Sure, extreme weather (snow/ice) can slow things down but those days are pretty rare as Seattle has mild winters. I think there have only been a few bad days so far this winter.
721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,741/2/3/4,752/3,762/3/4,772/3/LR,787,DC9/30/50/80/90,DC10,MD11,L1011,F100,319,320,321,332,333,380,CRJ,ERJ,DH8/2/4
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:24 pm

ASMVPGOLD wrote:
Prost wrote:
The A220 flies a lot into SEA and SFO which have had significant delays this winter. I’m not putting all the blame on these airports, but it can be a factor.


SFO is known for delays when the weather is anything by clear VFR but SEA (since building the 3rd runway) rarely has delays. Sure, extreme weather (snow/ice) can slow things down but those days are pretty rare as Seattle has mild winters. I think there have only been a few bad days so far this winter.


Yes, SEA’s terminals are absolute madhouses at peak times but in terms of operations SEA ranks rather high among the major airports for on time performance.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:45 pm

sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.

The OP link noted 70% of the fleet opperating above 99%. I have seen redesigns, in particular with engine related parts. (Take it as my opinion, as I have no link). As improved parts enter the fleet, reliability will improve.

Old to thread:
viewtopic.php?t=1427277

The prior thread had some doing better than others. 7 months further in, I hoped for better. However, Airbus hasn't had enough time for enough PiPs.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:50 pm

I suspect it's a combination of aircraft reliability issues, route network, and a lack of option for aircraft swaps, leading to cascading delays throughout the day. The A220 simply isn't as reliable yet. Hopefully it will get there, but it's not there now. The A220 route network is the other problem. The NYC base is obviously prone to problems, and the A220 is now used across the country with only 29 frames. Being spread thin without an easy option to swap leads to cascading delays with one problem.

Prost wrote:
The A220 flies a lot into SEA and SFO which have had significant delays this winter. I’m not putting all the blame on these airports, but it can be a factor.


Weather-wise, the much bigger issue is much of the A220 flying is based in NYC. The A220 hardly touches SFO, and SEA isn't on the same level of chronic problems.
 
Oilman
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:59 pm

ASMVPGOLD,

Please put spaces after your commas in your signature. It’s causing the page to scale way out!
 
dcaproducer
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:06 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


I'm not speaking to the reliability of the aircraft. What I'm pointing out is nowhere on that page does it attribute those numbers to DOT. That is poor journalism.
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:07 pm

dcaproducer wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


I'm not speaking to the reliability of the aircraft. What I'm pointing out is nowhere on that page does it attribute those numbers to DOT. That is poor journalism.

The very first sentence reads: “With the December DoT On-Time data available we have been digging into the 2019 data.”
 
dcaproducer
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:12 pm

Polot wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


I'm not speaking to the reliability of the aircraft. What I'm pointing out is nowhere on that page does it attribute those numbers to DOT. That is poor journalism.

The very first sentence reads: “With the December DoT On-Time data available we have been digging into the 2019 data.”


My error. I was looking at the numbers and didn't see any attribution on the graphic.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:16 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Weather-wise, the much bigger issue is much of the A220 flying is based in NYC.


:checkmark:

MSPNWA wrote:
The A220 hardly touches SFO, and SEA isn't on the same level of chronic problems.


SEA-SFO (which can be up to 8 daily flights) is all A221 generally, with a few SLC-SFO frequencies as well. SEA doesn't have the runway problems SFO has, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were higher than average delays for gates holds, etc.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
SELMER40
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:24 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.

You have to consider where these planes operate. From Table 4 Arrival and Table 6 Departure BTS 2019 LGA A 70.44 D 75.09, SFO A 72.22 D 76.33, DFW A 77.07 D 75.89, IAH A 77.97 D 79.70. The equipment table proves the known fact that delays build on each other.
Last edited by SELMER40 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:26 pm

Anyone else notice the 717/MD88 were much better than the A320 series in that chart? (I know this is anet blasphemy)
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:30 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
Anyone else notice the 717/MD88 were much better than the A320 series in that chart? (I know this is anet blasphemy)

It doesn’t surprise me. The MD-88 has a lot of slack in the fleet, so delays can be quickly covered with another aircraft. Both planes are also heavily concentrated in ATL, an airport with good on time performance, and flying to many smaller less delayed prone airports especially in the southeast.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:30 pm

SELMER40 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.

You have to consider where these planes operate. From Table 4 Arrival and Table 6 Departure BTS 2019 LGA A 70.44 D 75.09, SFO A 72.22 D 76.33, DFW A 77.07 D 75.89, IAH A 77.97 D 79.70. The equipment table proves the known fact the delays build on each other.


Good point. Some routes have a high propensity for delays, whereas some don’t. NYC airports certainly are delay prone, but DL is also using the plane from its hubs in MSP, DTW, SLC and SEA. The T-Tail fleet including 717s is based in ATL, so I see why DL doesn’t use A220s there. A220s fly everywhere else just like A320s and 737s, but with far worse reliability,

Delta’s Scheduled A220 Routes

https://thepointsguy.com/news/where-to-fly-delta-a220/

Route Start Date End Date Remarks
Atlanta (ATL) to Salt Lake City (SLC) December 2019 No End Scheduled
Austin (AUS) to Las Vegas (LAS) January 2020 January 2020 Only 1/5 for CES show
Detroit (DTW) to Austin (AUS) December 2019 January 2020
Detroit (DTW) to Nashville (BNA) March 2020 June 2020
Detroit (DTW) to Boston (BOS) December 2019 April 2020
Detroit (DTW) to Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW) In Service No End Scheduled
Detroit (DTW) to Newark (EWR) In Service June 2020
Detroit (DTW) to New York-Kennedy (JFK) In Service No End Scheduled
Detroit (DTW) to New York-LaGuardia (LGA) In Service No End Scheduled
Detroit (DTW) to Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) December 2019 December 2019 Only 12/20/19
New York-Kennedy (JFK) to Boston (BOS) December 2019 March 2020
New York-Kennedy (JFK) to Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW) In Service No End Scheduled
New York-Kennedy (JFK) to Houston (IAH) In Service No End Scheduled
New York-Kennedy (JFK) to Jacksonville (JAX) In Service June 2020
New York-Kennedy (JFK) to West Palm Beach (PBI) February 2020 March 2020 Only four flights
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to Atlanta (ATL) December 2019 December 2019 Only on 12/20/19
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to Boston (BOS) In Service June 2020
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW) In Service No End Scheduled
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to Houston (IAH) In Service No End Scheduled
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to New Orleans (MSY) In Service March 2020
New York-LaGuardia (LGA) to Fort Myers (RSW) In Service December 2019
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Austin (AUS) December 2019 January 2020
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Nashville (BNA) March 2020 April 2020
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Boston (BOS) December 2019 January 2020
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW) In Service No End Scheduled
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Newark (EWR) In Service June 2020
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to Houston (IAH) In Service No End Scheduled
Minneapolis-St. Paul (MSP) to New York-Kennedy (JFK) In Service June 2020 Break Dec-Mar
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Denver (DEN) In Service January 2020
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Fairbanks (FAI) In Service No End Scheduled Break Jun-Aug
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Spokane (GEG) May 2020 June 2020
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Milwaukee (MKE) June 2020 No End Scheduled
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to San Francisco (SFO) In Service No End Scheduled
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to San Jose (SJC) In Service No End Scheduled
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Salt Lake City (SLC) March 2020 No End Scheduled
Seattle-Tacoma (SEA) to Sacramento (SMF) January 2020 No End Scheduled
San Jose (SJC) to Las Vegas (LAS) January 2020 January 2020 Only during CES show
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Austin (AUS) December 2019 January 2020
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Columbus, OH (CMH) December 2019 January 2020
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Denver (DEN) December 2019 June 2020
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Dallas-Ft. Worth (DFW) In Service No End Scheduled
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Houston (IAH) In Service No End Scheduled
Salt Lake City (SLC) to New York-Kennedy (JFK) December 2019 No End Scheduled
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Las Vegas (LAS) December 2019 January 2020
Salt Lake City (SLC) to San Francisco (SFO) In Service No End Scheduled
Salt Lake City (SLC) to San Jose (SJC) In Service No End Scheduled
Salt Lake City (SLC) to Orange County, CA (SNA) In Service No End Scheduled
Last edited by Weatherwatcher1 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2012
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:32 pm

Jungleneer wrote:
Was under the impression that the A220 was performing well, but it seems that there are some issues with Delta fleet.

https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/

Does anyone have more information?


This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of LGA, JFK, SFO and other delay plagued airports
Last edited by freakyrat on Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:35 pm

freakyrat wrote:
Jungleneer wrote:
Was under the impression that the A220 was performing well, but it seems that there are some issues with Delta fleet.

https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/

Does anyone have more information?


This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of delay prone LaGuardia.


A220 routes are evenly spread across NYC, MSP, DTW, SLC and SEA, so I don’t think you can exclusively blame LGA

https://thepointsguy.com/news/where-to-fly-delta-a220/
 
ADM94
Posts: 58
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:50 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


There’s no explanation of the methodology, though. How are the numbers aggregated? Are these averages, medians, max, min? Are they combining methods, e.g. median daily average for the specified period? What is the sample size, i.e. are flights without arrival delays being included or excluded? All of those factors will affect how the final data appear, potentially quite significantly, and outliers could easily distort the summary data for its intended purpose. You could, for example, have 20 fairly short M88 arrival delays by the end of the day, and one long CS1 delay, and the CS1’s numbers could look significantly worse, depending on what, exactly, you’re measuring.

Moreover, the length of delay is only part (arguably a minor part) of the story when evaluating fleet-wide operational performance. On-time percentages would give a better picture of overall fleet reliability.
318 319 320 321 332 333 346 359 388 AR1 712 722 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739 752 753 763 764 77E 77L 788 789 CRJ CR7 CR9 CS1 D93 DH4 ERD ER4 E75 E90 F70 100 M82 M83 M88 M90
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:57 pm

ADM94 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


There’s no explanation of the methodology, though. How are the numbers aggregated? Are these averages, medians, max, min? Are they combining methods, e.g. median daily average for the specified period? What is the sample size, i.e. are flights without arrival delays being included or excluded? All of those factors will affect how the final data appear, potentially quite significantly, and outliers could easily distort the summary data for its intended purpose. You could, for example, have 20 fairly short M88 arrival delays by the end of the day, and one long CS1 delay, and the CS1’s numbers could look significantly worse, depending on what, exactly, you’re measuring.

Moreover, the length of delay is only part (arguably a minor part) of the story when evaluating fleet-wide operational performance. On-time percentages would give a better picture of overall fleet reliability.


The DOT arrival metric definition of ontime is arriving within 14 minutes of scheduled arrival time. Delays of 15 minutes or 15 hours are equivalent in the metric. It’s probably the most widely used data for benchmarking airlines.

It’s all publicly available information on the DOT website depending on how you sort and filter the data

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... er-reports

https://www.bts.gov/topics/airline-time-tables
 
ADM94
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:50 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
ADM94 wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:

I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


There’s no explanation of the methodology, though. How are the numbers aggregated? Are these averages, medians, max, min? Are they combining methods, e.g. median daily average for the specified period? What is the sample size, i.e. are flights without arrival delays being included or excluded? All of those factors will affect how the final data appear, potentially quite significantly, and outliers could easily distort the summary data for its intended purpose. You could, for example, have 20 fairly short M88 arrival delays by the end of the day, and one long CS1 delay, and the CS1’s numbers could look significantly worse, depending on what, exactly, you’re measuring.

Moreover, the length of delay is only part (arguably a minor part) of the story when evaluating fleet-wide operational performance. On-time percentages would give a better picture of overall fleet reliability.


The DOT arrival metric definition of ontime is arriving within 14 minutes of scheduled arrival time. Delays of 15 minutes or 15 hours are equivalent in the metric. It’s probably the most widely used data for benchmarking airlines.

It’s all publicly available information on the DOT website depending on how you sort and filter the data

https://www.transportation.gov/individu ... er-reports

https://www.bts.gov/topics/airline-time-tables


I understand how the DOT quantifies a flight delay; that’s not what I was referring to, though.

The table from the article says it’s displaying average arrival delay minutes by time of day. But is that across all flights, or just delayed ones? I’m assuming it’s the latter, but that still would only say so much about fleet reliability as a whole. All it would be saying is that the average delayed A220 flight with a scheduled arrival time at the end of the day was delayed by longer than a delayed flight arriving around the same time operated on different equipment. That wouldn’t indicate anything about the rate of those delays, which I would think matters more in evaluating fleet-wide reliability. The data in the article would look exactly the same if every single 739 flight arriving at the end of the day in December was delayed by 10 minutes, and only one A220 flight arriving at the end of the day in December was delayed, and it arrived 40 minutes late–to use an extreme example.

I’m not saying there are no reliability issues with the DL A220 fleet. I just think the table in the article doesn’t paint a complete picture of the data, possibly in a way that exaggerates the extent of the problem. Anecdotally, at SLC I’ve generally noticed they are more delay-prone than other fleets, but I’ve also noticed a lot of improvement as the fleet has grown.
318 319 320 321 332 333 346 359 388 AR1 712 722 733 734 735 736 73G 738 739 752 753 763 764 77E 77L 788 789 CRJ CR7 CR9 CS1 D93 DH4 ERD ER4 E75 E90 F70 100 M82 M83 M88 M90
 
SELMER40
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:06 pm

Another measure of schedule reliability is flights cancelled. For the year 2019 Delta reported for mainline (which includes A221) 281 days of ZERO flight cancellations and for total system (including connection carriers) 165 days of zero flight cancellations.
Teaching this old dog a new trick
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:25 pm

SELMER40 wrote:
Another measure of schedule reliability is flights cancelled. For the year 2019 Delta reported for mainline (which includes A221) 281 days of ZERO flight cancellations and for total system (including connection carriers) 165 days of zero flight cancellations.


That says nothing about the reliability of the A220.

An A220 that goes tech and gets replaced with a 717 or A319 or whatever is not a cancelled flight. It may not even be a delayed flight.

The real way to analyze A220 schedule reliability (at least, in the context of what is attributable to the airplane itself) would be mechanical delay occurrences (i.e. total number) and mechanical delay duration as compared to the total number of flights scheduled. Further, if one is looking at this from the perspective of the carrier and not of the passenger, you'd also have to have stats on mechanical problems that result in equipment swaps (whether to the same or to a different type, doesn't matter). Simply measuring average delay duration might make for a pretty Excel chart (debatable), but that info, in and of itself, doesn't actually tell you anything.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
BooDog
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:44 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:26 pm

Question: If the smallest arrival delay for the A220 throughout the 24hr period is 15 minutes, does this mean they are simply overscheduling the aircraft? Can someone explain?
B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
 
yyztpa2
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:30 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:30 pm

The dataset needs more clarification. For instance, is it for full year 2019 or just for December 2019? The introduction aludes it might be full year.

If full year, it could be expected that comparative data from earlier in the year would be different than that by end of year. I would be interested to see a fleet comparison based on December only data.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:39 pm

freakyrat wrote:
This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of LGA, JFK, SFO and other delay plagued airports


Other planes also fly to these airports but have much better performance.
 
TW870
Posts: 1227
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:51 pm

The industry has been so conditioned to derivative design in the medium-haul market that we don't have a lot of recent experience with a completely new clean sheet design. Ambitious projects - clean sheet frame and clean sheet engines - are going to have a longer teething period that derivative designs (okay the MAX throws this off, but you know what I mean!).

Per other forums, Airbus is working on increasing max landing weight, as the current, overly low max landing weight is forcing Delta to pull payload last minute when they have to add extra delay fuel. In other words, if they are full of passengers, bags, and cargo, and the weather forecast at destination is marginal (and thus warrants fuel for holding or diversion), they have to pull pax and bags, as they would be overweight on landing if they were cleared to destination without delay. This happens on markets of all stage lengths, as it is the delay fuel - not the regular trip fuel - that throws the numbers off. This is a paperwork and certification issue, and apparently the fix is underway. Once that happens, you will see less last minute load planning changes that cause delays.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5362
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:06 pm

New airplanes, engine that is known to have issues and they are mostly flying out of NYC with a small sample size has lower reliability than proven planes with many more in the fleet? Boy whoever figured that out should check to see if water is wet and the sky is blue.

IPFreely wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of LGA, JFK, SFO and other delay plagued airports


Other planes also fly to these airports but have much better performance.

Cool thing called a sample size.

If you take 15 A320s and only fly them out and back from LGA and compare them to 300 A320s flying all over the country guess which one will have worse statistics?

Stats 101.
 
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smithbs
Posts: 485
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:12 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
Anyone else notice the 717/MD88 were much better than the A320 series in that chart? (I know this is anet blasphemy)


I admit I did the comparison too. :duck: Interesting that that the A32x family shows the way it does in that table.

Before I get tackled, however, I'll point out that this is one set of data of not-so-documented pedigree from one airline, which does not in itself make a trend. It shouldn't be blown out of proportion.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3613
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:28 pm

IPFreely wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of LGA, JFK, SFO and other delay plagued airports

Other planes also fly to these airports but have much better performance.


Do you have any statistics to prove that, or are you just making it up as you go along?

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
FSDan
Posts: 3321
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:51 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
This is a worthless analysis as groups of these flights are in and out of delay prone LaGuardia.


A220 routes are evenly spread across NYC, MSP, DTW, SLC and SEA, so I don’t think you can exclusively blame LGA

https://thepointsguy.com/news/where-to-fly-delta-a220/


Routes may be relatively evenly spread, but frequencies are not. Outstations like DFW and IAH often see more A220 movements in a day than MSP and DTW. When I've looked, DFW, SLC, NYC, and SEA seem to be the biggest A220 destinations in terms of frequencies.
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VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:07 pm

So the whole thread is just about discrediting any article or opinion saying there might be an issue with the dispatch reliability.

What is the truth?
 
Weatherwatcher1
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:20 pm

VV wrote:
So the whole thread is just about discrediting any article or opinion saying there might be an issue with the dispatch reliability.

What is the truth?


Facts will set us free. The facts show

  • Arrival delays based on DOT A14 metrics for the entire year of 2019 show the A220 are far worse than the rest of the Delta fleet.
  • The A220 is spread around Delta’s network with the exception of ATL where the similarly sized 717 is based
  • The A220 has some exposure to delay prone airports like New York
  • Other narrowbodies like the 737 and A320 operate at much higher dispatch reliability
  • Other airlines such as Swiss and Air Baltic have reported issues with the engines that can affect reliability
  • Airbus Canada responded with the following:
    • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
    • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
    • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.
 
bx737
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:47 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:04 pm

How many sectors does the A220 do in comparison to other aircraft like the 737? If the A220 is operating 10 sectors as opposed to 4 sectors for the 737 (just using it as an example), it would follow that there is a greater chance of the A220 picking up delays. The stats are open to interpretation and do pose a lot of questions and we are not necessarily comparing like with like. Posters above commented that there is a lot of slack in the 717/MD88 fleet, thus they have a low level of delays. According to another post above there are a lot of flights spread throughout the US which will put pressure on the fleet if one aircraft was to go tech. It may not be all the fault of the aircraft, it may also be an airline problem, insofar as there maybe inadequate spare parts in various stations. As I said there are a lot of questions brought up by the data.

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