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Jungleneer
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:43 pm

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
VV wrote:
So the whole thread is just about discrediting any article or opinion saying there might be an issue with the dispatch reliability.

What is the truth?


Facts will set us free. The facts show

  • Arrival delays based on DOT A14 metrics for the entire year of 2019 show the A220 are far worse than the rest of the Delta fleet.
  • The A220 is spread around Delta’s network with the exception of ATL where the similarly sized 717 is based
  • The A220 has some exposure to delay prone airports like New York
  • Other narrowbodies like the 737 and A320 operate at much higher dispatch reliability
  • Other airlines such as Swiss and Air Baltic have reported issues with the engines that can affect reliability
  • Airbus Canada responded with the following:
    • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
    • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
    • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.


Yep! Airbus didn’t deny it. Instead confirmed that they are below 99% SR. But as said above, it seems to be issues with lack of spare parts, and issues with some components. This is normal for any new program, but seems to give some reality over the fuss we have been seen lately regarding this program.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:03 am

since Delta is pretty much the Straw Boss for the A220 in the USA? It's pretty natural that they would have to identify all the operational problems and fixes before anybody else. Now everybody else will benefit from Delta's experience. Just like USAir and Northwest had too get the A320's reliability up to snuff before United got the airplanes. Because while I worked the A320/A319? Northwest and USAir were the incumbent experts from whom we learned the Airplane's secrets. because they generated most of the FAA Service difficulty reports we used for our engineering and operations. They developed the Fault reset Guide so by the time I became a Maintenance controller on the A320/A319, I didn't have too hard a time working the airplane. I just hd to correlate what I knew as having been a 737 controller to what I had to do on the Airbus and for a few years I thought 737 and translated it to Airbus until I thought Airbus first, And many times I correlated what I knew on the Airbus when I worked the 737 desk . I can work them both now with no correlation though I'll bet we see Boeing get closer to the Airbus in Architecture with the NMA because it's easier on the Pilots..
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:11 am

Come on, anyone reading the airbaltic or Swiss multiple engine shutdowns know this aircraft is in the level of the ARJ-21 right now, just search the Avherald incidents, it is even worse than the SSJ100, and this is a western aircraft manufacturer we are talking about, that goes to show anyone can produce junk, and that includes Boeing as well.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:12 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/


The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


The MD-88 looks great in terms of reliability compared to the more modern aircraft. I’m still of the belief that Boeing really missed out by ending the production of Douglas airframes so early after the merger. With DL leasing the 717s from WN, that’s a bigger statement than any purchase of A220s. Very surprised that DL would risk so much on a new aircraft when they pride themselves in being on time.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:09 am

Just a note. The data doesn't reflect the cause of the delays. What is apparent is that the delays get longer as the day goes by. This could be the result of weather, ground crews that still aren't used to fueling and loading and buttoning-up the aircraft or even fixing typical squawks (e.g. lack of tribal knowledge from expansion of the schedules into new stations), unrealistic flight or turn times in the schedule, and lots of other things that aren't directly caused by mechanical or reliability issues with the aircraft itself.

Dispatch reliability means that the airframe is ready to roll even if everyone else isn't. The data here are not a measure of pure dispatch reliability.

It could well be, of course, that it's an airframe issue, but this data is not clear and convincing evidence of that, as it stands.

My own experience is that all the DL flights on which I have taken an A220 so far have left the gate early/on-time and have arrived early or on-time. At JFK one day, we were early and watching the (inexperienced?) jet bridge operator fail to get the bridge to the aircraft for at least 10 minutes while it moved, sat, moved, sat, blah-blah caused a lot of upset passengers. (That wouldn't have been reflected on a block-to-block schedule analysis, of course, but it's a symptom of what I'm talking about.) Finally, someone drove up to the gate, ran up the jetbridge stairs, and the bridge was in place in moments, to cheers.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:16 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
VV wrote:
So the whole thread is just about discrediting any article or opinion saying there might be an issue with the dispatch reliability.

What is the truth?


Facts will set us free. The facts show

    ...
  • Other narrowbodies like the 737 and A320 operate at much higher dispatch reliability
  • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.
[/list]


I don't see where the data description makes it a fair measure of "dispatch reliability", as noted above.
 
AngMoh
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:10 am

usdcaguy wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
dcaproducer wrote:
So I'm not familiar with this website, but this article is terribly written. First, they don't attribute any of their information. Where did they pull this from?
There's no response from Delta and the author appears to be drawing their own conclusions without any company statement. While they mention they reached out to Delta, they didn't appear to wait for a response.

I'm not defending DL's A220 fleet one way or the other, I'm just saying this is a poorly written article that wouldn't pass Journalism 101.


I think the article is powerful because it actually has data. This is DOT data

Image

Source: https://airinsight.com/deltas-a220s-schedule-struggle/

The A220 numbers are horrible. The difference between the best (737-900ER ) and worst (A220 ) for Delta is huge!

The comments from Airbus Canada indicating that they are working to get the airplane to 99% technical dispatch reliability indicates how far behind the plane is. Most major A320 and 737 operators have reliability in the 99.4-99.8% range. If the A220 is struggling to meet 99%, that is a problem which will take a lot of money to solve.


The MD-88 looks great in terms of reliability compared to the more modern aircraft. I’m still of the belief that Boeing really missed out by ending the production of Douglas airframes so early after the merger. With DL leasing the 717s from WN, that’s a bigger statement than any purchase of A220s. Very surprised that DL would risk so much on a new aircraft when they pride themselves in being on time.


You have lies, damn lies and statistics. Here are statistics at work.

On paper, 737NG and A32xCEO should have by far the best dispatch numbers as they are a large fleet, extremely mature as an aircraft in terms of all aspects: design, manufacture, airline operational experience, spares availability at the average airport. On the other hand, because of this, they will be pushed to the max and have the most demanding schedules.

The 717 and MD-8x are on the way out. The airctraft is mature, operations and issues are very well understood. The 717 is concentrated in ATL so as long as it is close to ATL, parts will be there. It is higher in fuel consumption as well as being phased out so it will not be maxed out on routes. The overall utilisation will be less than 737/A32x and therefore not as tightly scheduled and a bigger chance to catch up on delays. The data seems to show this, but the interpretation of the data is highly subjective as all details and sources are missing and it fits my interpretation but not someone else's interpretation.

The A32xNEO is partially proven with relatively immature engines. Not as bad as the A221, but not on par either with A32xNEO and 737NG. On the other hand it is the cheapest to fly so will be pushed. Engine maturity and parts availability will be an issue as parts are needed system wide.

The A221 has problems: there are not too many in service so the statistics are less reliable as outliers have a far bigger impact. The plane is new. Air Baltic and Swiss are too small a fleet to get maturity up, and even with bigger volumes it takes years (and blood, sweat and tears) to meet the numbers of the 737NG and A320CEO. The design is not mature, the service network is highly immature, the engines are new and it is a new aircraft for the operator. The numbers would have been bad if this was an Airbus or Boeing brand new aircraft design with less than 100 flying but this is a product from a company which went bust because of the development process. It is a miracle they were produced in the first place. If you look at the production list: https://www.abcdlist.nl/cseries/cseries.html, then you can see that Delta is more or less the launch customer. Swiss is ok, but they are no Lufthansa. The other airlines listed are not the ones you expect to introduce a new aircraft type and help to get it to maturity. I expect Delta got a good discount for its anticipated problems.

Let's see again in 2 years and see where we are.
727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
 
VV
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:43 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
...
...
[*]Airbus Canada responded with the following:
  • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
  • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
  • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.
[/list]


So Airbus Canada says "over 70 % of the fleet now operating [with a dispatch reliability] above 99 % today."

So what's the dispatch reliability of the remaining 30% of the fleet? Is it 20% or 98%?
 
Bacon
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:09 am

sxf24 wrote:
There are a number of component problems, which are not unusual with a new program. However, the supply chain is unable to keep up with spares and there does not appear to be a plan to redesign parts to improve reliability. Some fundamental problems that larger, mature programs aren’t facing.


Sounds exactly like the Q400. Components regularly going tech, supply chain has zero units available and you have to beg Bombardier for one from the production line.

Granted that was my experience some years back but it was a mature enough aircraft even then.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:33 pm

AngMoh wrote:

You have lies, damn lies and statistics. Here are statistics at work.

The 717 and MD-8x are on the way out.


Enjoyed your post.

But the 717 is not "on the way out". The MD88 is, by year-end 2020. The MD90 is, somewhat after that. Not the 717.

Agreed about statistics, and I have my own criticism of the data as analyzed, as expressed above.
 
ethernal
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:22 pm

All the posts trying to discredit the data is nonsensical. Unless the data is just outright fabricated, it's clearly a sufficiently large outlier to indicate that something is wrong.

Now, as to the causes of the delays, I can't speculate given that the data doesn't indicate that. Others have speculated. I have no doubt that dispatch reliability is part of the question here. It's a brand new airframe at a low production rate from a company that was nearly bankrupt. A new type is always going to have reliability issues and they don't have the same scale of operational PIP that you'd see from Boeing or Airbus proper.

I am sure some of the issue is also a general lack of familiarity with the aircraft - turn times may be longer than ideal because ground crews are less familiar with the plane. If that is indeed the case, then you should see declines in delays in O/D pairs that have operated for a long time.

The key question is whether Delta can right the ship - both with their own operations in concert with Bombardier/Airbus. Which I have a pretty high degree of confidence in - the question is how long it will take and whether it will tun Delta off of new purchases.
 
Jomar777
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:46 pm

I think we need to get the facts right and be pragmatic.
It is not the first time I see A220s going tech (SWISS had some issues in the past - well documented on A.net so no need for link).
BUT - are these only teething problems? Do we have any indirect issues plagging the performance?
All I hear is a lot of excuses for the A220 performance and how poor the data pointing to those issues is.

I guess we simply do not have a clear picture do dwell on this - pro- A220 or otherwise so let's give it a rest until we have some more reliable source
 
yyztpa2
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:48 pm

ethernal wrote:
All the posts trying to discredit the data is nonsensical. Unless the data is just outright fabricated, it's clearly a sufficiently large outlier to indicate that something is wrong.

Now, as to the causes of the delays, I can't speculate given that the data doesn't indicate that. Others have speculated. I have no doubt that dispatch reliability is part of the question here. It's a brand new airframe at a low production rate from a company that was nearly bankrupt. A new type is always going to have reliability issues and they don't have the same scale of operational PIP that you'd see from Boeing or Airbus proper.

I am sure some of the issue is also a general lack of familiarity with the aircraft - turn times may be longer than ideal because ground crews are less familiar with the plane. If that is indeed the case, then you should see declines in delays in O/D pairs that have operated for a long time.

The key question is whether Delta can right the ship - both with their own operations in concert with Bombardier/Airbus. Which I have a pretty high degree of confidence in - the question is how long it will take and whether it will tun Delta off of new purchases.


The data lacks definition. For instance, is it full year? On Jan 1, 2019, DL had 4 A221 and by end of June, 18. It could be expected that data through the first six months would impact the results due to new fleet introduction.

Seeing the same chart based on December or maybe last quarter 2019 might provide better insight. Maybe it is still worse than the rest of the fleet but it would be more representative of post introduction performance and based on a substantial fleet size.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:21 pm

yyztpa2 wrote:
ethernal wrote:
All the posts trying to discredit the data is nonsensical. Unless the data is just outright fabricated, it's clearly a sufficiently large outlier to indicate that something is wrong.

Now, as to the causes of the delays, I can't speculate given that the data doesn't indicate that. Others have speculated. I have no doubt that dispatch reliability is part of the question here. It's a brand new airframe at a low production rate from a company that was nearly bankrupt. A new type is always going to have reliability issues and they don't have the same scale of operational PIP that you'd see from Boeing or Airbus proper.

I am sure some of the issue is also a general lack of familiarity with the aircraft - turn times may be longer than ideal because ground crews are less familiar with the plane. If that is indeed the case, then you should see declines in delays in O/D pairs that have operated for a long time.

The key question is whether Delta can right the ship - both with their own operations in concert with Bombardier/Airbus. Which I have a pretty high degree of confidence in - the question is how long it will take and whether it will tun Delta off of new purchases.


The data lacks definition. For instance, is it full year? On Jan 1, 2019, DL had 4 A221 and by end of June, 18. It could be expected that data through the first six months would impact the results due to new fleet introduction.


There may well be a dispatch/ops reliability problem with DL A220s -- but the data don't confirm it.

The first crew base for the A220s is NYC. Would I be surprised that any type concentrated into/out of LGA/JFK/EWR/BOS had lousy on-time performance accumulating later in the day? I would not. Nor should anyone else here familiar with airport-specific on-time data -- which are emphatically not hard to find.

DL should be looking at factors - time in service, time since last heavy check, airport performance (mentioned in my first post), mean route distance ... whatever their current experience points to as a factor, to adjust for these factors and to isolate what is specific to the A220. DL execs should know this; DL management mechanics should know this; DL financial analysts working in support should know this; AirInsight - promoting itself as a decision analytics company should know this. I expect better quality of argument and evidence. DL surely has it - it would be negligent to make add-on $Billion aircraft purchases without it.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:24 pm

ethernal wrote:
All the posts trying to discredit the data is nonsensical. Unless the data is just outright fabricated, it's clearly a sufficiently large outlier to indicate that something is wrong.

Now, as to the causes of the delays, I can't speculate given that the data doesn't indicate that. Others have speculated. I have no doubt that dispatch reliability is part of the question here. It's a brand new airframe at a low production rate from a company that was nearly bankrupt. A new type is always going to have reliability issues and they don't have the same scale of operational PIP that you'd see from Boeing or Airbus proper.

I am sure some of the issue is also a general lack of familiarity with the aircraft - turn times may be longer than ideal because ground crews are less familiar with the plane. If that is indeed the case, then you should see declines in delays in O/D pairs that have operated for a long time.

The key question is whether Delta can right the ship - both with their own operations in concert with Bombardier/Airbus. Which I have a pretty high degree of confidence in - the question is how long it will take and whether it will tun Delta off of new purchases.

You don't have to fabricate data for that data to be nonsensical; if the data lacks contexts and deeper analysis, you can make it say whatever you want.
Example: for the last 6 months of 2019, worldwide, there's been ZERO delays, ZERO incidents, ZERO accident when looking at 737 MAX data. Impressive, ain't it? Except there is a reason for it: it ain't in airline operation.

So, everything must be looked at in context, and said context needs to be clearly stated; if not, you can make that data say whatever you want.
 
basspaul
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:29 pm

There is always the issue of familiarity with a new plane. There are obviously bugs still in the designs. Many may easy to address in operation. But, if you're new to diagnosing the type, you'll take more time before the issue is identified and corrected.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:37 pm

The data are pretty much what I would expect.

Delta was very aggressive with their EIS plan - which shows they had a lot of confidence in the airplane. Most of the airplane rotations were (and are) taking airplanes through multiple hubs and outstations. LGA-DFW-SLC-SFO-SEA, for example, is a not uncommon rotation for the 221 on a given day. But this makes the fleet much more vulnerable to compounding delays, as there is no obvious point to keep operational spares. The opposite is true for the MD-88, where all flying is hub and spoke through Atlanta, and where you have a lot of slack in the fleet due to the retirement process. The longest you are going to carry a delay is one turn, because you can just tail swap for the next turn. I was surprised from the get-go that Delta wanted to put as much pressure on the A220 as they did, running it through multiple hubs without a logical place to consolidate operational spares - especially when they knew Swiss was having a number of challenges with the jet.

Overall, though, they must think all of these issues are resolvable. If they thought the problems were chronic, they would consolidate the fleet and hub and spoke the operation (maybe a SLC?). That way, you can pool the operational spares to up the dispatch reliability. Clearly, they think that even with this level of reliability it still makes more financial sense to take advantage of the airplane's unique versatility on short and long runs.
 
PhilMcCrackin
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:37 pm

New airplanes have operational teething issues. This is nothing new and doesn't indicate anything wrong with the aircraft itself.
 
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fanoftristars
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:59 pm

Being based in DFW and having 220s on just about every route from DFW, I'd have to agree with those who'd say let's look at Q4 2019. I know at entry into service in Q2 I had one swap to a 717, one to an A319 and one where DL bought me a seat on AA. Since Q4, 12 different flights on an A220, 100% on time on all A220 flights, except one that was weather related - 30 min of flying to get around a large storm. My flight yesterday left the gate 6 min early and arrived in MSP 20 min early. As for spares, there do appear to be some slack and spares at DFW, SLC and LGA that I've noticed planes parked remotely. I get that it's somewhat anecdotal, but my experience has been rather solid with DL's A220s.
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:30 pm

Wayfarer515 wrote:
Come on, anyone reading the airbaltic or Swiss multiple engine shutdowns know this aircraft is in the level of the ARJ-21 right now, just search the Avherald incidents, it is even worse than the SSJ100,


Since you brought it up, what are the rates for the A220, ARJ21, SSJ100 ?

I assume the A220 engines are doing around 1600-2000 hrs a day with over 100 aircraft in service ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:15 pm

zeke wrote:
Wayfarer515 wrote:
Come on, anyone reading the airbaltic or Swiss multiple engine shutdowns know this aircraft is in the level of the ARJ-21 right now, just search the Avherald incidents, it is even worse than the SSJ100,


Since you brought it up, what are the rates for the A220, ARJ21, SSJ100 ?

I assume the A220 engines are doing around 1600-2000 hrs a day with over 100 aircraft in service ?

Since when do we throw actual numbers into a good DL and/or A220 bashing? :duck:
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 pm

WayexTDI wrote:
zeke wrote:
Wayfarer515 wrote:
Come on, anyone reading the airbaltic or Swiss multiple engine shutdowns know this aircraft is in the level of the ARJ-21 right now, just search the Avherald incidents, it is even worse than the SSJ100,


Since you brought it up, what are the rates for the A220, ARJ21, SSJ100 ?

I assume the A220 engines are doing around 1600-2000 hrs a day with over 100 aircraft in service ?

Since when do we throw actual numbers into a good DL and/or A220 bashing? :duck:

Here
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/new ... 23.article
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d338076&opt=0
"The French BEA reported the left hand engine suffered a technical failure, the aircraft diverted to Bordeaux. The occurence was rated a serious incident and has been delegated to the US NTSB, who are already investigating three occurrences of the same type that Swiss had suffered in 2019, see Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Paris on Jul 25th 2019, engine shut down in flight, Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Geneva on Sep 16th 2019, uncontained engine failure and Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Paris on Oct 15th 2019, engine shut down in flight.

In all three cases of Swiss the affected engine had suffered the uncontained release of the stage 1 low pressure compressor rotor.

As result of the occurrences in 2019 the FAA had released Air Worthiness Directive 2019-19-11 and Transport Canada had released Emergency Airworthiness Directive (EAD) CF-2019-37, the latter limiting the N1 setting to 94% above FL290, which requires the autothrust to be disengaged in order to respect that limit."
And here,
https://simpleflying.com/airbaltic-airb ... ne-change/
"airBaltic operates a fleet of 20 Airbus A220-300 aircraft. In the first two years of the aircraft’s operation, the airline replaced 50 engines. Having just 13 aircraft in that period means that almost every engine was replaced twice on average."

Uncontained engine failure is a big no-no in my book, I will fly on an SSJ anyday, but right now I would avoid this mess from P&W and Bombardier/Airbus.
Last edited by Wayfarer515 on Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:34 pm

EBiafore99 wrote:
Attached is an article about the A-220. It appears there have been some engine reliability issues.

https://www.inc.com/chris-matyszczyk/de ... ngers.html

PWA is having problems with the reliability of their 'engines it seems, They cite also the 787 airplane but they didn't cite that the reliability problems were Rolls Royce engine problems,
Incomplete and sloppy reporting. It isn't the 787 it was the Rolls engines. It's not the A220, It the PWA installed engines!
 
IPFreely
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:02 am

alfa164 wrote:
Do you have any statistics to prove that, or are you just making it up as you go along?

:roll:


IF you would read the OP's link the stats for each aircraft are individually detailed. It is clear that the A220 is an unmitigated disaster. For DL's sake they hopefully negotiated some type of exit strategy into their contract.
 
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zeke
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:23 am

IPFreely wrote:

IF you would read the OP's link the stats for each aircraft are individually detailed. It is clear that the A220 is an unmitigated disaster. For DL's sake they hopefully negotiated some type of exit strategy into their contract.


Unfortunately I did read the OP link, and also pulled out my calculator. The data just lists when an aircraft is delayed more the 15 minutes on its scheduled arrival time. It does in no way try to demonstrate the reason for this delay.

If we look at the period 2200-2259, the number of late flights
717 1160
739 875
752 829
A220 381
A320 1379

All this says to me is the later in the day it is the delays snowball due to the culmination of previous delays, and I don’t need to see statistics to know that.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
oldJoe
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:27 am

Wayfarer515 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
zeke wrote:

Since you brought it up, what are the rates for the A220, ARJ21, SSJ100 ?

I assume the A220 engines are doing around 1600-2000 hrs a day with over 100 aircraft in service ?

Since when do we throw actual numbers into a good DL and/or A220 bashing? :duck:

Here
https://www.flightglobal.com/safety/new ... 23.article
http://avherald.com/h?article=4d338076&opt=0
"The French BEA reported the left hand engine suffered a technical failure, the aircraft diverted to Bordeaux. The occurence was rated a serious incident and has been delegated to the US NTSB, who are already investigating three occurrences of the same type that Swiss had suffered in 2019, see Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Paris on Jul 25th 2019, engine shut down in flight, Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Geneva on Sep 16th 2019, uncontained engine failure and Incident: Swiss BCS3 near Paris on Oct 15th 2019, engine shut down in flight.

In all three cases of Swiss the affected engine had suffered the uncontained release of the stage 1 low pressure compressor rotor.

As result of the occurrences in 2019 the FAA had released Air Worthiness Directive 2019-19-11 and Transport Canada had released Emergency Airworthiness Directive (EAD) CF-2019-37, the latter limiting the N1 setting to 94% above FL290, which requires the autothrust to be disengaged in order to respect that limit."
And here,
https://simpleflying.com/airbaltic-airb ... ne-change/
"airBaltic operates a fleet of 20 Airbus A220-300 aircraft. In the first two years of the aircraft’s operation, the airline replaced 50 engines. Having just 13 aircraft in that period means that almost every engine was replaced twice on average."

Uncontained engine failure is a big no-no in my book, I will fly on an SSJ anyday, but right now I would avoid this mess from P&W and Bombardier/Airbus.


Good luck to you for a ride on a SSJ. Can be you sit on the tarmac for a while because no spare parts ! And honestly, how many SSJ flights were cancelled in the first years ?
 
evank516
Posts: 2138
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:36 am

They're average delays too. Of course they're going to be higher with the A220 with a small amount of aircraft in the fleet it's going to skew the averages. IIRC, only their 73G fleet is smaller than the A220.

Not saying there aren't problems, it's a brand new aircraft after all, but you can't use this data for much even though people try to anyway.
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2645
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:46 am

There almost certainly are issues - but these data are far too coarse to confidently confirm the extent of that.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:54 am

Amiga500 wrote:
There almost certainly are issues - but these data are far too coarse to confidently confirm the extent of that.

Agreed. Rumors I have heard imply the A220 is improving, with implimentation of PiPs required.

When Airbus took over the A220, they promised PiPs:
https://leehamnews.com/2019/01/17/pips- ... ing-costs/

It takes 18 to 24 months for those PiPs to be ready and 6 to 24 months to roll into the fleet.

I agree the data is far too course.

The A220 has predictive maintenance software. If there is a business case to improve the aircraft, it will be improved. Since sales volume is now healthy, we will see a virtuous cycle: improvements will drive sales which will drive improvements which...

The fact DL increased their orders tells me they are satisfied.

The big changes will happen as production increases. In particular as new opperators come online in bulk: AirCanada, Breeze/Moxie, JetBlue and AirFrance.

If performance is bad, sales will stall. If good with the usual detractors, sales will continue to climb.

Airbus took over in 2018 which increased sales (JetBlue, Moxie). That continues (AirFrance, ALC, Green).

With 658 orders (and rising), no worries on PiPs or parts.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:11 am

We got such a ridiculously low price for the initial order that all of these teething issues still phase no one off Virginia Ave. Remember the DAL that was loathe to order anything new? Well when the often repeated price per plane is $20 mil, that changes a lot of minds.

The low capital outlay al so helps placing an abnormally large number of spares across the system (compared to the other fleet types).

lightsaber wrote:
Amiga500 wrote:
There almost certainly are issues - but these data are far too coarse to confidently confirm the extent of that.

Agreed. Rumors I have heard imply the A220 is improving, with implimentation of PiPs required.

When Airbus took over the A220, they promised PiPs:
https://leehamnews.com/2019/01/17/pips- ... ing-costs/

It takes 18 to 24 months for those PiPs to be ready and 6 to 24 months to roll into the fleet.

I agree the data is far too course.

The A220 has predictive maintenance software. If there is a business case to improve the aircraft, it will be improved. Since sales volume is now healthy, we will see a virtuous cycle: improvements will drive sales which will drive improvements which...

The fact DL increased their orders tells me they are satisfied.

The big changes will happen as production increases. In particular as new opperators come online in bulk: AirCanada, Breeze/Moxie, JetBlue and AirFrance.

If performance is bad, sales will stall. If good with the usual detractors, sales will continue to climb.

Airbus took over in 2018 which increased sales (JetBlue, Moxie). That continues (AirFrance, ALC, Green).

With 658 orders (and rising), no worries on PiPs or parts.

Lightsaber
 
strfyr51
Posts: 4989
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:21 am

With Delta seeing the Engine reliability first hand? I'm sure they can work with Pratt and Whitney to iron out the problems through their powerplant engineering troops. And? with Delta and PWA working together? They might well get the problems identified and in hand pretty soon as the other large US carriers?
are most Definitely looking on.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2425
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:29 am

The bias is showing stronger than ever here.

The a220 is a good plane and continues to improve. But there are issues. Some people are desperate to deny that
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:24 am

VV wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
...
...
[*]Airbus Canada responded with the following:
  • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
  • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
  • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.
[/list]


So Airbus Canada says "over 70 % of the fleet now operating [with a dispatch reliability] above 99 % today."

So what's the dispatch reliability of the remaining 30% of the fleet? Is it 20% or 98%?


I do not understand why you are still debating the question of A220-100 reliability. Airbus Canada clearly stated the following (emphasis added)
  • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
  • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
  • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.


From the statement above, the only remaining missing information is the reliability of the 30% of the fleet.

In reality, if you look into the numbers, you can probably deduce that about 30% of the fleet is operating at 99.8% reliability or above.
But that's not the point.

The most important missing formal information is the average reliability of the 30% of the fleet that has not been mentioned.
And also they should have mentioned the average reliability of the whole fleet.
We do not have that information and Airbus Canada did not formally mention it.

Let us not forget the A220-100 entered into service with Swiss in July 2016 or three and a half years ago.
 
Strato2
Posts: 551
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:51 am

VV wrote:
And also they should have mentioned the average reliability of the whole fleet.


Are they somehow accountable to you?
 
VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:00 pm

Strato2 wrote:
VV wrote:
And also they should have mentioned the average reliability of the whole fleet.


Are they somehow accountable to you?


They did mention it for 70% of the fleet, which is a useless indicator.

And this thread is exactly about the reliability. The only one who can tell us something is telling us something useless.
 
Jetport
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:23 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:11 pm

While we don't know all of the context for this data, this does not look good for the the A220. The A220 entered service 3.5 years ago, that is a very long time to have teething problems. Why does Anet love the A220 so much, maybe just the CASM and range tunnel vision so prevalent on this site? Having the best long segment CASM only helps if you fly mostly long segments and the aircraft isn't a hanger queen. Maybe data like this will help sell some E195 E2's.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8510
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:59 pm

bx737 wrote:
How many sectors does the A220 do in comparison to other aircraft like the 737? If the A220 is operating 10 sectors as opposed to 4 sectors for the 737 (just using it as an example), it would follow that there is a greater chance of the A220 picking up delays.


The stats don't look good all day. Roughly twice as bad as the next aircraft starting with the morning flights all the way to end of day.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:27 pm

Jetport wrote:
While we don't know all of the context for this data, this does not look good for the the A220. The A220 entered service 3.5 years ago, that is a very long time to have teething problems. Why does Anet love the A220 so much, maybe just the CASM and range tunnel vision so prevalent on this site? Having the best long segment CASM only helps if you fly mostly long segments and the aircraft isn't a hanger queen. Maybe data like this will help sell some E195 E2's.


The information provided by Airbus Canada is quite strange.

The could have said, "70% of the fleet, constituted by the last delivered aircraft, is operating at 99% reliability rate."

It would mean that the aircraft is getting better as the production matures.

It would have been a more useful information.
 
Nean1
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 11:08 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:55 pm

Antarius wrote:
The bias is showing stronger than ever here.

The a220 is a good plane and continues to improve. But there are issues. Some people are desperate to deny that


The complacency with "the best and most incredible airplane in the world" is remarkable even after 12 years of its launch and 3.5 years after EIS. If we make a comparison with the all-new E190, launched in 1999 and with the first deliveries in 2005, in 2008-2009 a reliability rate below 99% was not considered acceptable.
 
Babyshark
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:48 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:21 am

The “A220-500 is obviously coming soon” crowd will blow a gasket over these posts.
 
VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:07 pm

Babyshark wrote:
The “A220-500 is obviously coming soon” crowd will blow a gasket over these posts.


There is no point nagging people for nothing.

This said, I still do not understand the statement about 70% of the fleet operating at a reliability of 99% or above.

What about the remaining 30% of the fleet?
 
OpsCheckNML
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:05 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:56 pm

There's truth in the numbers. It's gonna take time to get the right parts to the right stations and tribal knowledge of how to clear fault messages
 
VV
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:03 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:30 pm

OpsCheckNML wrote:
There's truth in the numbers. It's gonna take time to get the right parts to the right stations and tribal knowledge of how to clear fault messages


Are you insinuating there are many spurious fault messages?
 
Sokes
Posts: 1648
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:32 am

Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
...
Airbus is taking over the Customer Support for the A220, but the Airbus engineers don’t have the engineering experience with the design and certification processes used by Bombardier. Bombardier was under such financial pressure that many people from the engineering teams that designed the airplane are gone. It’s creating a significant challenge to support the plane. It’s hard to improve reliability where components may not be meeting reliability targets since the people who designed and understand the systems are gone.

I assumed the trouble is mostly with the engines?
Do you assume or do you know what you wrote?
It's worth an extra discussion. I always wondered how high tech companies can hire and fire engineers according to market sentiment.

TW870 wrote:
The data are pretty much what I would expect.

Delta was very aggressive with their EIS plan - which shows they had a lot of confidence in the airplane. Most of the airplane rotations were (and are) taking airplanes through multiple hubs and outstations. LGA-DFW-SLC-SFO-SEA, for example, is a not uncommon rotation for the 221 on a given day. But this makes the fleet much more vulnerable to compounding delays, as there is no obvious point to keep operational spares. The opposite is true for the MD-88, where all flying is hub and spoke through Atlanta, and where you have a lot of slack in the fleet due to the retirement process. The longest you are going to carry a delay is one turn, because you can just tail swap for the next turn. I was surprised from the get-go that Delta wanted to put as much pressure on the A220 as they did, running it through multiple hubs without a logical place to consolidate operational spares - especially when they knew Swiss was having a number of challenges with the jet.

Overall, though, they must think all of these issues are resolvable. If they thought the problems were chronic, they would consolidate the fleet and hub and spoke the operation (maybe a SLC?). That way, you can pool the operational spares to up the dispatch reliability. Clearly, they think that even with this level of reliability it still makes more financial sense to take advantage of the airplane's unique versatility on short and long runs.

I learned something.


lightsaber wrote:
The fact DL increased their orders tells me they are satisfied.
...
With 658 orders (and rising), no worries on PiPs or parts.

Amen.
Why can't the world be a little bit more autistic?
 
rabader
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:57 am

Does anyone have any update on this subject? A220 has been one of the Delta workhorses during the pandemic
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20033
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Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:23 am

rabader wrote:
Does anyone have any update on this subject? A220 has been one of the Delta workhorses during the pandemic

It does imply a certain reliability.

Improvements have been delivered, but not universal. I would like some numbers, but DL has certainly favored the A220.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
N649DL
Posts: 975
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:44 am

Flew DL A220 AUS-DTW-EWR (same crew, same plane) around the Christmas Holiday's last year and no problems at all. Just amazed by the window in the rear Y restroom. No delays.

IIRC, aren't there going to be teething issues with these types of aircraft regardless? EG: B6's E190s?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13264
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:51 am

VV wrote:
Weatherwatcher1 wrote:
...
...
[*]Airbus Canada responded with the following:
  • We have been working closely with our airline customers to raise the A220 reliability results
  • As a result, all operators have seen increased reliability; with over 70 % of the fleet now operating above 99 % today.
  • We will continue working closely with the fleet, and we expect to bring the remainder of the fleet to 99 % or above going forward.
[/list]


So Airbus Canada says "over 70 % of the fleet now operating [with a dispatch reliability] above 99 % today."

So what's the dispatch reliability of the remaining 30% of the fleet? Is it 20% or 98%?


considering https://corporate.southpacificislands.t ... .%E2%80%9D

“Today, the A220 fleet is operating throughout Europe, North America, Asia, Africa and the Middle East, carrying approximately 55,000 passengers a day. Fleet wide dispatch reliability is currently 98.55% which means that only 1.45% of flights are cancelled for maintenance issues of any kind.”


i would say ~97ish %, depending on what exacty above 99% means. If 99% flat, 97,5% for the remaining aircraft, if actually 100% 95.2%.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
JonesNL
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:40 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:39 am

lightsaber wrote:
rabader wrote:
Does anyone have any update on this subject? A220 has been one of the Delta workhorses during the pandemic

It does imply a certain reliability.

Improvements have been delivered, but not universal. I would like some numbers, but DL has certainly favored the A220.

Lightsaber

Seeing that all programs production rate took a big hit, with the A22x being the sole exception speaks volumes as well. Probably too early make final conclusions though...
 
UPNYGuy
Posts: 322
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: Delta A221 Schedule Reliability struggle

Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:09 pm

JonesNL wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
rabader wrote:
Does anyone have any update on this subject? A220 has been one of the Delta workhorses during the pandemic

It does imply a certain reliability.

Improvements have been delivered, but not universal. I would like some numbers, but DL has certainly favored the A220.

Lightsaber

Seeing that all programs production rate took a big hit, with the A22x being the sole exception speaks volumes as well. Probably too early make final conclusions though...


I am a big proponent of that plane, but might that also speak volumes to the low overall output from airbus re: the A220?

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