Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 13
 
716131
Posts: 892
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:51 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:55 am

BNAMealer wrote:
I’m surprised DY is still around to be honest. It just doesn’t seem like a sustainable concept.

If they do go bust, I hope WN can pick up their 738’s.

Certainly hope. They can even take second hand 738 from HNA as well (the airline which operation more than 300 737 NG’s). HNA is also facing troubles like Norwegian and the parent company of HNA Aviation was rumored to be sold off. I know this is off-topic/but I explain only about second hand 738s that is available for airlines to purchase.
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
Thunderbolt500
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:04 am

leghorn wrote:
one of the shareholders had reduced their stake recently.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... uces-stake

Who would buy the stock.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3620
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:11 am

Another week another DY going broke. This is a tired subject.
 
aerobus12
Topic Author
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:49 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:11 am

DY shares plummet another 7% right away after the opening of the Oslo Stock Exchange today.

There are talks now about DY violating minimum share capital requirements of their bond loan agreements, putting them into default. That would mean that DY soon will be flying at the creditors' mercy.
 
tobsw
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:54 am

Do you have any source?
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4488
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:54 am

rbavfan wrote:
Another week another DY going broke. This is a tired subject.


Airline bankruptcies are often long protracted affairs. I guess you weren't around when SkyEurope was going bust and we had weekly threads on that subject.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:59 pm

planesarecool wrote:
Thankfully, many of those pilots are now also leaving BA to move on to better things. I know as many people who work(ed) for BA as I do Norwegian, and believe me, it’s not those at Norwegian that are running for the door right now.


There have been about a dozen pilots leave BA over the past year or so before retirement and they've jist about all been foreign nationals returning home such as some Dutch pilots who applied to KLM because they started recruiting for the first time in nearly a decade. One other that I know of went to China, now deeply regrets it. I know of no pilots that have left BA to join Norwegian. I know of plenty that left Norwegian to join BA - the current BACC chairman being one of them. I think your facts might need a little realignment!

planesarecool wrote:
As a self-appointed champion of labour relations, how do you explain the pathetic cabin crew contracts at your own airline? Cabin crew at Norwegian, both short and long haul, are paid more than both BA mixed fleet and LGW base. How do you explain recruiting over 200 experienced cabin crew on “world class” contracts, making them wait a year for a start date and then a month before starting telling them they’ll be paid £7k less and have to accept a normal mixed fleet contract? I’m sure that made them really think they’re “moving onto something better”.


Pathetic cabin crew contracts at BA? Worldwide and Eurofleet have arguably the best T&Cs of any cabin crew in the world!

As for Mixed Fleet and Gatwick, I've flown with plenty that were ex-easyJet, Norwegian, Virgin etc and all have said they earn more at BA, especially now short haul BoB comes with commission for crew. It's not just pay - LGW crew get complimentary breakfast downroute, they're all part of bonus schemes, pension contributions at BA are higher than easyJet and Norwegian, they get to bid for their work and have much better roster stability. Norwegian don't even have a crew report centre at Gatwick - they brief in the Costa Coffee in Atlantic House in a desperate measure to save money! But as you've spoken to someone on a short haul flight once I suppose you're an expert?!

planesarecool wrote:
Or, like most BA pilots I come across, do you not care about those on the other side of the FD door?


Now you're really demonstrating your ignorance. BASSA has no hotel agreement with BA. If it wasn't for BALPA and pilots cabin crew would be staying in far worse hotels. They wouldn't get exec. lounge access or room upgrades for CSMs/CSDs, they wouldn't get a whole variety of discounts and complimentary items downroute. It's because of pilots that the Mixed Fleet attendance policies were amended in their favour. It's because of pilots that the All Colleague Bonus is being enhanced from 2020 going forwards. It's because of pilots that many routes that don't require a bunk actually have one and is provisioned with bedding. It's because of pilots that their poscab entitlement isn't always World Traveller and often Club World. It's because of pilots that the company is starting an electric vehicle salary sacrifice scheme that will benefit all employees. It's because of pilots that BA even came up with the OneTeam initiative. Not sure you've come across any BA pilots...

planesarecool wrote:
Once again, you’re blaming Norwegian for your own airline’s declining T&Cs, as well as those declining across the industry. The simple fact is that your union’s embarrassing capitulation last year, which set a precedent for all airlines that the pilot workforce will crumble if you apply enough pressure, has done far more damage to the state of the industry than Norwegian ever have.


Sure Norwegian put pressure on our T&Cs, especially when a load of their pilots keep applying to join us. What you perceive was a capitulation isn't perceived that way in Waterside. Most BA managers thought we'd never walk out - we grounded the airline for 2 days. Now behind the scenes a lot is happening - there have already been internal personnel changes; the COO has been replaced as has the Director of People. There are already changes being made to a variety of policies and agreements. Not sure that equates with damaging the state of the industry but as you must get the regular updates from the BACC I guess you know it all?!

Back to the original topic, I wouldn't predict the end of Norwegian just yet. They've come up with several methods of raising cash that can only go on for so long but they have a few more avenues to explore before it's game over.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:11 pm

zkojq wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

Of course it waa good value - they consistently sell fares at levels that doesn't make them any money. That's why it's unsustainable. If I sold $20 bills for $10 I bet everyone I did business with would think I provided good value for money too.

Short haul, where I flew them, Norwegian makes money. Unlike the EU3 whose short haul ops are subsidised by their long haul ops (ie the opposite of Norwegian).

BA777FO wrote:
Short term for longer term gain. Europe has far too many carriers and certainly far too many weak carriers. The unsustainability threatens livlihoods and creates havoc when these airlines go bust costing taxpayers millions in repatriations.

So why did IAG start LEVEL then? If your IAG wages are too low, you should direct your complaints to IAG's management for spending hundreds of millions creating LEVEL long haul...and then, having decided that they hadn't flushed away enough money, decided to start LEVEL Anisec and getting into a pissing match with Lufthansa Group, Wizzair and Ryanair/Lauda at Vienna. :roll:

BA777FO wrote:
There are no mid-to-large sized scheduled longhaul operators that offer worse T&Cs than Norwegian in Europe!


But plenty of shorthaul ones....

BA777FO wrote:
IAG forced to compete?? Their biggest and mosy profitable airline is based in the most competitive aviation market in the world.


With the biggest and most profitable airline protected thanks to a slot oligopoly!

Arion640 wrote:
It’s better than hard working families not being able to afford a holiday. Just look how airfares have come down in the last 20 years.

:checkmark:


Quite a few unsubstantiated assertions in there.

Norwegian makes money on short haul? Can you provide evidence?

IAG started Level because it saw a gap in the market from Barcelona especially, but also Paris. It was very cheap to set up - the AOC, crew and aircraft originally came from Iberia, then latterly Openskies. It was a reallocation of assets. The Anisec thing was naivety on Willie Walsh's behalf, definitely. Despite that, IAG still generates the highest profit, highest margins and highest ROIC of the EU3.

As for BA being protected by a slot oligopoly, BA has a lower share of slots at LHR than AF does at CDG, KLM does at AMS and LH does at FRA. I guess they're all protected oligopolies too?! :roll:
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1404
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:32 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Back to the original topic, I wouldn't predict the end of Norwegian just yet. They've come up with several methods of raising cash that can only go on for so long but they have a few more avenues to explore before it's game over.


True. There's only so many times the same ground can be trodden over again to raise funds before somebody realises they're throwing good money after bad.

There are jobs at stake here and it wouldn't be nice to see Norwegian fail because it would be a high-profile failure. I can't help but wonder if their current financial situation combined with events outside their control (MAX grounding, 787 RR engine issues, potential Coronavirus impacts) are all going to come to a head at some point and if the efforts to stem losses are going far enough.

Personally, if I was Norwegian I'd have focused on regional/short-haul only, with long-haul efforts limited to routes originating from Scandinavia providing they're profitable and even then not necessarily on the 787 initially given their acquisition cost and how they've had their fingers burnt over performance in the early days of long-haul ops and later the engine issues (I accept this is all in hindsight).
 
RexBanner
Posts: 46
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:37 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:40 pm

BA777FO I wouldn’t crow about the management changes. If you thought Klaus was bad, be very aware that he’s a pussycat compared to Mahoney. We were promised by Balpa that Cruz was a dead man walking, he’s still here and not about to go anywhere with Gallego in charge of IAG. With regard to CC Ts and Cs how many cabin crew have been recruited onto Eurofleet or Worldwide contracts recently, or ever will be again? Gatwick still has free breakfasts downroute for CC but that will only last as long as the last person on the old contract. Don’t get me wrong I agree with the general crux of your argument but don’t think for one second that the company has changed tack, they haven’t and there are still many many fights ahead.
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:40 pm

It will be interesting to see. THey made a lot of operational moves to preserve cash through the winter. We will see if they worked.

Travel stocks are getting hammered due to Corona virus fears; that's not specific to Norwegian, but they did not need this type of event given their financials.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
a350lover
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:43 pm

Will there be interested parties in DY's B787s? Do you think Norwegian could "easily" re-organize itself without the long-haul structure and survive?
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2223
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:45 pm

tlecam wrote:
It will be interesting to see. THey made a lot of operational moves to preserve cash through the winter. We will see if they worked.

Travel stocks are getting hammered due to Corona virus fears; that's not specific to Norwegian, but they did not need this type of event given their financials.



I suspect too little, too late. Bjørn Kjos drove this airline hard into the red with non-stop growth in mind. It was like the only play in the book he knew how to run.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
behramjee
Posts: 5082
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:04 pm

a350lover wrote:
Will there be interested parties in DY's B787s? Do you think Norwegian could "easily" re-organize itself without the long-haul structure and survive?


DYs B787 configuration is well suited for JALs ZIP long haul LCC as well as for NH/JL domestic operations.

Other airlines that could see it nicely fit in are Scoot, and Korea’s new LCC Air Primera without having a cabin retrofit.

If cabin retrofit is paid for by a new buyer then there would be airlines who would snap up the planes if a “distress asset sale” deal is up for grabs. These could include Vistara, ET, AC, UA, VS, PK, TK, VA, BG and SV.
 
factsonly
Posts: 2963
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:07 pm

Watch their Q4 2019 Financial reporting:

https://video.qbrick.com/play2/embed/pl ... ring=false

The annual loss for FY 2019 was larger than FY 2018, while recent route cuts have raised CASM.
 
chiad
Posts: 1324
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:13 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Poor Norwegian has the 737 MAX issue and the 787 RR engine issue to deal with as it struggles to stay in business.


Agree.
Had they only gone for Airbus 320Neo and A350 it could have been a different story.
Oh well.
 
royroy
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:48 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:20 pm

12.5% percent down for the day at the minute
 
jfk777
Posts: 7358
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:36 pm

chiad wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Poor Norwegian has the 737 MAX issue and the 787 RR engine issue to deal with as it struggles to stay in business.


Agree.
Had they only gone for Airbus 320Neo and A350 it could have been a different story.
Oh well.


A350-900 in a Norwegian configuration would be too big for them, the 787 being smaller is a better fit.
 
BA777FO
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:58 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:44 pm

RexBanner wrote:
BA777FO I wouldn’t crow about the management changes. If you thought Klaus was bad, be very aware that he’s a pussycat compared to Mahoney. We were promised by Balpa that Cruz was a dead man walking, he’s still here and not about to go anywhere with Gallego in charge of IAG. With regard to CC Ts and Cs how many cabin crew have been recruited onto Eurofleet or Worldwide contracts recently, or ever will be again? Gatwick still has free breakfasts downroute for CC but that will only last as long as the last person on the old contract. Don’t get me wrong I agree with the general crux of your argument but don’t think for one second that the company has changed tack, they haven’t and there are still many many fights ahead.


PM sent to avoid the ire of the off-topic police!
 
JustSomeDood
Posts: 469
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:05 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:56 pm

chiad wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Poor Norwegian has the 737 MAX issue and the 787 RR engine issue to deal with as it struggles to stay in business.


Agree.
Had they only gone for Airbus 320Neo and A350 it could have been a different story.
Oh well.


They'd be dead at this point with the A320neos instead of MAXes. All those extra deliveries would have just added to their (already high) capacity and depressed yields down (already something they strugggled with). Not to mention having ~20-30 more aircraft in fleet to finance l/lease even as revenues start drying up due to the Coronavirus situation.
Last edited by JustSomeDood on Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4764
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:01 pm

Seriously is this the posters version of starting a fire? LOL people on a.net are just dying for Norweigan to go under. it's kind of sad its so many years of these, Norweigan going under posts and people swearing in 2014 they couldn't make it till the end of the year etc etc. Have you seen the major issue going around the world and affecting travel? This is fears of a low traffic summer for leisure travel internationally
 
jfk777
Posts: 7358
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:06 pm

Norwegian going under would suck, Gatwick would have a huge block of slots on the market. People would lose their jobs and many 787 would hit the used market just when the first bunch of 787 are coming off lease. Hoping some one buys them intact even if its on the court house steps for one Euro.
 
a350lover
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:13 pm

What measures could DY take to quickly get some cash flow? They put up LGW slots to delay bond repayment. Could they sell them quickly in order to survive some more time?
 
K37a8
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:12 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:22 pm

Saw earlier some post about Norwegian crew briefing in the costa coffee in Atlantic house.

Yes that’s we do, mostly we do brief once on the aircraft, that’s how we do in all our LH operations even if we have access to crew rooms at various bases around Europe. Almost everyone in the company agree that this is the most efficient way of doing it. Personally I prefer to brief my fellow pilots at the gate or in the aircraft.
 
Exeiowa
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:52 pm

When these stories keep coming up, it makes you think something is going on. If Etihad puts up money I know its over. Its got a similar feel to Jet Airways and I watched that one go all the way down. It took a while with denials right up to the end, some people who appeared to be company paid supporters that turned up here as the questions started to be asked and never stayed once the answer was given (presumably there was no money to pay them either) which I thought was weird that people would exert such effort to influence a bunch of forum posters. Oh well we will see how this one goes I am waiting for someone to say "this time its different" and then "its just a correction" followed by "rightsizing" and "its a valuable asset that someone will want" and why they wait around trying to survive looking for a suitor the strong players in the market carry off the customers. As it ever was......
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:10 pm

It’s incredibly hard to shrink a business to profitability, especially when your whole business model is predicated on a dash for growth in new markets. If those new markets don’t make money, you can retreat, but you’ve taken on a whole load of new capital outlay you need to sell on. Tricky one sadly.
 
Amiga500
Posts: 2645
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:22 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:16 pm

The post above prompted a thought about shrinking to profit.

Without turning this into an A vs. B - the risk exposure to Norwegian would have been much reduced if they could have ordered the A321XLR when formulating their business plan.

Obviously its irrelevant to DY now - but the XLR might be the aircraft that does enable (profitable) LCC long-haul for someone else.... and if it doesn't; then the investors still have a good asset for selling back into the regular narrowbody market.


I'm not sure how valuable the MAX and 787 are as financial assets for Norwegian - the MAX will be waiting for Boeing to do remedial work for RTS (which I doubt will be top of the list with Norwegian unable to pay bills) - and the 787 build rate is dropping due to dropping demand.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:46 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Gatwick would have a huge block of slots on the market.


IAG, easyJet, Wizz Air and maybe Ryanair would love that.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:04 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Seriously is this the posters version of starting a fire? LOL people on a.net are just dying for Norweigan to go under. it's kind of sad its so many years of these, Norweigan going under posts and people swearing in 2014 they couldn't make it till the end of the year etc etc. Have you seen the major issue going around the world and affecting travel? This is fears of a low traffic summer for leisure travel internationally

I never understood why people get so defensive in threads like these. Just because a company is doing badly, bleeding money, etc and people are wondering if the end is near, doesn't make them haters. Saw this same reaction in the Virgin America threads.

Virgin America eventually made money, and maybe Norwegian will be ok. But in neither case was anyone "rooting" for the airline's demise.

Maybe other threads are full of these hater posts but I haven't seen any in this thread.

Norwegian is cutting routes, posting losses, and things are being shaken up by the coronavirus... Is it that crazy for people to wonder if Norwegian will survive?
 
User avatar
tlecam
Posts: 1498
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:23 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Seriously is this the posters version of starting a fire? LOL people on a.net are just dying for Norweigan to go under. it's kind of sad its so many years of these, Norweigan going under posts and people swearing in 2014 they couldn't make it till the end of the year etc etc. Have you seen the major issue going around the world and affecting travel? This is fears of a low traffic summer for leisure travel internationally

I never understood why people get so defensive in threads like these. Just because a company is doing badly, bleeding money, etc and people are wondering if the end is near, doesn't make them haters. Saw this same reaction in the Virgin America threads.

Virgin America eventually made money, and maybe Norwegian will be ok. But in neither case was anyone "rooting" for the airline's demise.

Maybe other threads are full of these hater posts but I haven't seen any in this thread.

Norwegian is cutting routes, posting losses, and things are being shaken up by the coronavirus... Is it that crazy for people to wonder if Norwegian will survive?


Thanks for posting this. I am not hoping that Norwegian goes under. As an av enthusiast, I’d like every airline, airplane manufacturer and anything else in the industry to thrive. But I’m also going to observe what’s happening in the industry.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
njdevilsin03
Posts: 673
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:03 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:25 pm

My United stock is down 16 points a share this week... guess they’re going bankrupt too... find me a airline stock doing well over the last few weeks.
717, 727, 731, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 753, 762, 763, 777, DC9, MD80, DC10, L1011, ERJ, CRJ, ATR, DH8, A300,
 
LHUSA
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:33 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Seriously is this the posters version of starting a fire? LOL people on a.net are just dying for Norweigan to go under. it's kind of sad its so many years of these, Norweigan going under posts and people swearing in 2014 they couldn't make it till the end of the year etc etc. Have you seen the major issue going around the world and affecting travel? This is fears of a low traffic summer for leisure travel internationally

I never understood why people get so defensive in threads like these. Just because a company is doing badly, bleeding money, etc and people are wondering if the end is near, doesn't make them haters. Saw this same reaction in the Virgin America threads.

Virgin America eventually made money, and maybe Norwegian will be ok. But in neither case was anyone "rooting" for the airline's demise.

Maybe other threads are full of these hater posts but I haven't seen any in this thread.

Norwegian is cutting routes, posting losses, and things are being shaken up by the coronavirus... Is it that crazy for people to wonder if Norwegian will survive?


Very well said. Exactly as you state, it's not as if this question is appearing out of thin air. There are real reasons to question DY's future, like the dire bond situation just a few months back, backing out of their odd Argentina strategy in less than a year (even the arm chair CEOs on this site correctly forecasted that outcome) and many more to add to that list. They seem to be staying afloat through desperate measures rather than quality financial performance. Their recent strategies to cut costs and capacity have been mostly well-received here on anet.
 
LHUSA
Posts: 828
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:37 pm

njdevilsin03 wrote:
My United stock is down 16 points a share this week... guess they’re going bankrupt too... find me a airline stock doing well over the last few weeks.


There's a lot more to DY's story than it's stock performance - as has been shared on this thread - to suggest it's potential demise.
 
leghorn
Posts: 1297
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:13 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:57 pm

Only positive I see is fuel being cheaper the last few weeks.
 
axiom
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:39 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:27 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Seriously is this the posters version of starting a fire? LOL people on a.net are just dying for Norweigan to go under. it's kind of sad its so many years of these, Norweigan going under posts and people swearing in 2014 they couldn't make it till the end of the year etc etc. Have you seen the major issue going around the world and affecting travel? This is fears of a low traffic summer for leisure travel internationally

I never understood why people get so defensive in threads like these. Just because a company is doing badly, bleeding money, etc and people are wondering if the end is near, doesn't make them haters. Saw this same reaction in the Virgin America threads.

Virgin America eventually made money, and maybe Norwegian will be ok. But in neither case was anyone "rooting" for the airline's demise.

Maybe other threads are full of these hater posts but I haven't seen any in this thread.

Norwegian is cutting routes, posting losses, and things are being shaken up by the coronavirus... Is it that crazy for people to wonder if Norwegian will survive?


You make fair points, but I’ve definitely witnessed a recurring anti-DY outlook on a.net. It can be toxic at times, and detract from important critiques of their business model and broader industry trends. It’s particularly disappointing when one considers how many livelihoods are at stake here.
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:40 pm

There are certainly people who are rooting for them to fail because of their labor practices
 
VictorKilo
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:39 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:54 pm

aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares plummet another 7% right away after the opening of the Oslo Stock Exchange today.

There are talks now about DY violating minimum share capital requirements of their bond loan agreements, putting them into default. That would mean that DY soon will be flying at the creditors' mercy.


So the following things can be true at the same time:

The cash conservation measures taken by DY will allow it to sustain itself at least through Summer 2020

AND

There is a specific covenant in a loan agreement that requires DY to have a market value above a certain number - and, due to COVID uncertainty, DY could be close to violating - and if in violation the banks could call in the loan which may push DY into bankruptcy.

Important to note all the ifs and coulds above - I am in no position to verify anything - and it’s also important to note that the banks could also choose to keep the loan in place even if DY is in violation, especially if the operational condition of DY has not or has slightly changed due to the COVID issue.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:57 pm

aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares are down 27% the last two days on the Oslo Stock Exchange because of urgent worries about the airline's dire liquidity situation, exacerbated by Corona virus fears and Boeing compensation uncertainty. The airline has already been through two emergency offerings the last year.

Talks in Norway are about yet another public offering as the airline is strapped for cash and desperate, and if not, impending bankruptcy.



This thread should be closed, and shame on the poster for initiating such a hyperbolic post. I’m actually surprised that the moderators haven’t stepped in here- it makes me lose even more faith in the legitimacy of this site and its moderators. This is equatable to fake news.

What proof do you have that Norwegian is going out of business, aside from the drastic devaluation of the company’s stock?? Why aren’t you providing any sources? If we were in the midst of normal macroeconomic events and there was a drastic downfall in the stock, then I would be more inclined to listen to your assertions, but in the last week, global markets have been in the midst of a massive sell-off, and tourism sectors have taken the largest hit. The hotel and airline industries are officially in correction status- AA, the largest and one of the most stable airlines in the world, has declined over 25% since last Thursday. So, for you to come and state the airline’s stock has dropped precipitously, and as a result, the airline is on its way out; I think this is a completely flawed and radical point of view, given the current macroeconomic factors at play. I’m an industry analyst in the aviation sector, and I can tell you right now, everyone is getting wacked due to the potential of the measures that will be put in place to tame the spread of the virus- clamps on air travel. Higher risk LCCs will be harder hit than larger, more sustainable and diversified airlines, just like small caps will typically be harder hit in a down market than large caps (smaller, new companies vs. larger, more sustainable companies).
 
Northpole
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:55 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:10 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
There are certainly people who are rooting for them to fail because of their labor practices


I agree - but there are a number of others much worse I can think of ...
 
Blerg
Posts: 4086
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:45 am

EADSYABSOB73857 wrote:
aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares are down 27% the last two days on the Oslo Stock Exchange because of urgent worries about the airline's dire liquidity situation, exacerbated by Corona virus fears and Boeing compensation uncertainty. The airline has already been through two emergency offerings the last year.

Talks in Norway are about yet another public offering as the airline is strapped for cash and desperate, and if not, impending bankruptcy.



This thread should be closed, and shame on the poster for initiating such a hyperbolic post. I’m actually surprised that the moderators haven’t stepped in here- it makes me lose even more faith in the legitimacy of this site and its moderators. This is equatable to fake news.

What proof do you have that Norwegian is going out of business, aside from the drastic devaluation of the company’s stock?? Why aren’t you providing any sources? If we were in the midst of normal macroeconomic events and there was a drastic downfall in the stock, then I would be more inclined to listen to your assertions, but in the last week, global markets have been in the midst of a massive sell-off, and tourism sectors have taken the largest hit. The hotel and airline industries are officially in correction status- AA, the largest and one of the most stable airlines in the world, has declined over 25% since last Thursday. So, for you to come and state the airline’s stock has dropped precipitously, and as a result, the airline is on its way out; I think this is a completely flawed and radical point of view, given the current macroeconomic factors at play. I’m an industry analyst in the aviation sector, and I can tell you right now, everyone is getting wacked due to the potential of the measures that will be put in place to tame the spread of the virus- clamps on air travel. Higher risk LCCs will be harder hit than larger, more sustainable and diversified airlines, just like small caps will typically be harder hit in a down market than large caps (smaller, new companies vs. larger, more sustainable companies).


You are overreacting. He wasn't making a statement, he was asking a question which is obvious from the question mark at the end of the topic name.
 
Asiaflyer
Posts: 916
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:43 am

Norwegian share down another 10-12% today, now trading around 20 NOK/share.
The stockmarket clearly has som serious concerns about the companys future.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:06 am

soon i'll be able to buy the whole company for 1 NOK :D
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:13 am

They have lost half of their market value in 15 days. Will they survive another two weeks?

February/March is usually a prime time of the year for bankruptcies.
 
uta999
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:10 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:30 am

Another way of looking at this is the Coronavirus and the Boeing MAX issues could actually save DY, at least until both are eventually resolved. Every airline and travel company will be in the same situation, even the majors like CX, LH, AF/KLM and AIG. There will be both government and shareholder support to avoid contagion across the whole industry.
Your computer just got better
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12980
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:46 am

aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares are down 27% the last two days on the Oslo Stock Exchange because of urgent worries about the airline's dire liquidity situation, exacerbated by Corona virus fears and Boeing compensation uncertainty. The airline has already been through two emergency offerings the last year.

Talks in Norway are about yet another public offering as the airline is strapped for cash and desperate, and if not, impending bankruptcy.


I'd be so happy if they went tits up, they are an awful airline, I dread flying them, unfortunately the company I work for has them as the preferred airline partner. In an ideal world another good airline would take over Norwegians domestic Norwegian network, someone like KLM would fit the bill.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3667
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:56 am

Kiwirob wrote:
aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares are down 27% the last two days on the Oslo Stock Exchange because of urgent worries about the airline's dire liquidity situation, exacerbated by Corona virus fears and Boeing compensation uncertainty. The airline has already been through two emergency offerings the last year.

Talks in Norway are about yet another public offering as the airline is strapped for cash and desperate, and if not, impending bankruptcy.


I'd be so happy if they went tits up, they are an awful airline, I dread flying them, unfortunately the company I work for has them as the preferred airline partner. In an ideal world another good airline would take over Norwegians domestic Norwegian network, someone like KLM would fit the bill.


But if DY pulls out of Scandinavia shorthaul, who is going to keep SAS prices at a bearable level. With no competition we will all be on the train!
 
PavlovsDog
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:09 am

With Japan closing all of the their schools, Trump putting his head in the sand hoping for the best, and the virus popping up all over the place the demise of Norwegian will be the tip of the iceberg.

It's really not a question of if now but when. It'll be a shame.

Norwegian has a lot of great people and their new CEO Jacob Schram and new COO Marty St. George are fantastic leaders. Norway and the Scandinavian markets in general need a second strong competitor to SAS so a scaled down version of Norwegian will undoubtedly emerge from the ashes, unencumbered by Bjørn Kjos's insane growth plans.

Norwegian certainly won't be the only airline which won't survive this crisis. I imagine especially Boeing is going to have some major challenges as well with lawsuits and compensation.
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:16 am

PavlovsDog wrote:
With Japan closing all of the their schools, Trump putting his head in the sand hoping for the best, and the virus popping up all over the place the demise of Norwegian will be the tip of the iceberg.

It's really not a question of if now but when. It'll be a shame.

Norwegian has a lot of great people and their new CEO Jacob Schram and new COO Marty St. George are fantastic leaders. Norway and the Scandinavian markets in general need a second strong competitor to SAS so a scaled down version of Norwegian will undoubtedly emerge from the ashes, unencumbered by Bjørn Kjos's insane growth plans.

Norwegian certainly won't be the only airline which won't survive this crisis. I imagine especially Boeing is going to have some major challenges as well with lawsuits and compensation.


Getting into the long haul business was a mistake. They should’ve focused on short and medium haul.
 
continental004
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:20 am

Tristarsteve wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
aerobus12 wrote:
DY shares are down 27% the last two days on the Oslo Stock Exchange because of urgent worries about the airline's dire liquidity situation, exacerbated by Corona virus fears and Boeing compensation uncertainty. The airline has already been through two emergency offerings the last year.

Talks in Norway are about yet another public offering as the airline is strapped for cash and desperate, and if not, impending bankruptcy.


I'd be so happy if they went tits up, they are an awful airline, I dread flying them, unfortunately the company I work for has them as the preferred airline partner. In an ideal world another good airline would take over Norwegians domestic Norwegian network, someone like KLM would fit the bill.


But if DY pulls out of Scandinavia shorthaul, who is going to keep SAS prices at a bearable level. With no competition we will all be on the train!


Greta would approve.
 
BealineV953
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:59 pm

[quote="zkojq"][quote="BA777FO"]

Short haul ...Norwegian makes money.
Unlike the EU3 whose short haul ops are subsidised by their long haul ops (ie the opposite of Norwegian).

"Short haul ops are subsidised by their long haul ops" is absolutely NOT the case at British Airways.
Do you have evidence for this at Iberia and Aer Lingus?
Do you have evidence for shorthaul services subsidising longhaul services at AF/KL and the Lufthansa group?
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 13

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos