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Wf789
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Re: DY about to go bust?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:31 am

 
Bongodog49
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Re: DY about to go bust?

Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:56 pm

Wf789 wrote:



The emphasis on here has all been about the share price, in reality the share price has little effect on the performance of a business in the short term, its just the stock markets valuation of the business. Bonds however are a very different matter, the issuer of the bind agrees to not only pay back the face value of the bond at the maturity date, but also pay a fixed rate of interest during the bonds lifetime. The fact that bonds issued by Norwegian are trading at 33% of their face value indicates that the markets expect Norwegian to default on their loans fairly soon.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:44 pm

That does sound very dire. The more out of wack they try to sell their bonds, the faster investors will run in the other direction. Screams of desperation.
 
AF022
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:22 pm

President Trump is extending a travel ban to the United Kingdom and Ireland, effective midnight Monday, according to the NYTimes.
This was the only piece of the puzzle that could have kept them flying. I really don´t see how they can get through this. I think they have about 9 daily departures from LGW to the US.
 
RexBanner
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:42 pm

Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.
 
BA777FO
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 pm

RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


To be fair BA's transatlantic loads were quite healthy given the situation and time of year with only two or three exceptions. BA has a healthy balance sheet and paid-for aircraft that will be cheap to stand down. There will be some short-term pain but BA will come through it. Virgin and Norwegian are going to struggle big time. Government assistance may well be needed, but given the track record with Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe it's unlikely to be forthcoming. Delta may inject some more to help Virgin but they'll have their own issues soon enough. There will no doubt be failures within the next month or two. Quite how Alitalia is still going is a mystery.
 
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Aesma
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:02 pm

RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


In fact this could save Norwegian. If every government is bailing out companies left and right, why not this one ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
RexBanner
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:08 pm

I was more referring to Norwegian’s loads. I don’t agree this is short term. IAG may have cash reserves of £6Billion but that’s not enough to cover the entire group and certainly not the whole group for six months of this, which I would say was a hard minimum right now. In short everybody is utterly screwed. Thomas Cook, Monarch and Flybe were failing businesses but this isn’t a case of that, this is an entire industry that’s had its cash flow taken away virtually overnight. If we want any aviation industry after the dust has settled from all this then governmental action will be required to support it before it all goes down the toilet. I do agree with you that the British government though will be in an exceptionally difficult position to step in in the case of BA but for a different reason though; the ownership structure. In short I think we’re looking south east down towards Qatar to save us if it’s going to happen.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:07 pm

RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


Look, we all get it, you loathe Norwegian, please give your dramatic and less than knowledgeable posts about Norwegian a rest, we've seen and read them all on this thread, it's really getting quite old.

This is an unprecedented event, not only in the industry, but also the world. No one really has answers of what to do and how to operate or whats to follow. To whoever the moderator was who changed the subject heading to, ""Financial Discussion" - thank you. It's a much more positive way to discuss, rather than everyone rubbernecking to see what will happen next.

As many have already echoed here, the Trump administration's knee jerk reaction to make it look like they were acting or doing something about the virus situation, yet only gave grandiose broad-reaching statements - most of which had to be walked back later - caused major panic, not just in the industry but in other governments making them wonder if they should follow, which most have. Diseases and viruses aren't "foreign" they attack people, doesn't matter, gender, background, financial disposition, or what country you're from. Look at the flu, it makes its way around the world and always has every year. Their whole response to this, without having a proper press release, statement, or plan of attack in place was absolutely shameful, and one of the main reasons the industry is in the condition that it's in at the current moment.

Rather than making sensational claims of the end of Norwegian, I say let's look at the positives that exist, since we all know the bad parts of this wildly dynamic situation that continues to unfold.

Unlike most airlines, Norwegian divided themselves up, and created new 4 airlines, 4 different operating certificates. Unlike Mr RexBanner or some of the others would tell you about "a flag of convenience model" - but this simply is NOT the case. If they had remained in Norway and started registering their aircraft in Ireland, or Thailand, or the Caymans, then yes, that would in effect be a "flag of convenience" operation like some shipping companies do.

Norwegian did not do that.

They went and created a brand new airline, from scratch, that had to be approved by the local government in EACH country, which was by no means an easy feat. They went through the same trials and tribulations that British Airways had to for their Norwegian Air UK license, they had to go through the same government process to open an airline in Ireland that Aer Lingus would for Norwegian Air International, and the same for their Swedish Certificate. With those three plus the Norwegian Air Shuttle Certificate-based out of Norway, this gives them 4 airlines - 4 certificates in 4 countries, each registered in that country as an independent airline and certificate.

This may be a saving grace for them, as this means that they could in effect request aid from 4 different countries should it be provided.

I should point out, that this will be the same for IAG with each of their companies to their respective countries, and the same for the Lufthansa Group and their independent local carriers.

Another positive of this is that maybe, Rolls Royce can finally meet their production requirements and get the engines out to the aircraft so not as many frames will be sitting around waiting for engines. So, when things finally go get back to normal, they can operate a full fleet of aircraft.

The other positive I see is that while Norwegian had really become a lean and trim operation, this does give them that chance to "reboot" and figure out what market that want to attack, and they want to do - in line with their customer base. This is a great time to review data and analyze what comes next and how to do it. Most airlines never get a chance like this because you have to make changes as you work and continue to fly. This will benefit a lot of airlines that make it through this.

I say to any others of you, if you want to actually have a real conversation about Norwegian and not just go on and on about how doomed they are then please continue, add some constructive ideas and note some positives of the thousands of hard working people who put full support into a company they believe in.

Otherwise, give it a rest.
The rest of us thank you.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
CobaltScar
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:26 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:

This may be a saving grace for them, as this means that they could in effect request aid from 4 different countries should it be provided.
.


You have got to be joking. Just because they spread themselves around so their parasitic ways were less noticed does not make them <XYZs> hometown airlines.

Let this scab operation die. They tried to undercut other legitimate business with unsustainable fares. Their play has failed and now they must lay in the messy death bed they've made for themselves.
 
RexBanner
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:40 pm

Bluefltspecial if you’d actually read my post without getting so hysterical you’d have seen I wasn’t singling out Norwegian AT ALL. There’s bigger fish to fry here, which was my point but if you so wish then feel free to get all butthurt over some stranger making what amount to absolutely irrelevant comments in the greater scheme of things.
 
onwFan
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:15 pm

Recently, Norwegian has terminated all long haul flying from ARN and CPH. Parallely, SAS has specifically de-emphasized long haul from OSL (and to some extent ARN) in favor of CPH. Coupled with the fact that the Norwegian govt has sold its stake in SAS; will the impending loss of long haul at OSL persuade the Norwegian govt to lend a helping hand in some way? They could as well pull out of hubs at ARN and CPH and focus on OSL and regional Norway. Once the situation calms down and traffic rebounds, other LCCs will happily fill in. I know it is a wild thought, but I sincerely wish that there is some solution for their employees..
 
skipness1E
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:56 pm

BA777FO wrote:
RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


To be fair BA's transatlantic loads were quite healthy given the situation and time of year with only two or three exceptions. BA has a healthy balance sheet and paid-for aircraft that will be cheap to stand down. There will be some short-term pain but BA will come through it. Virgin and Norwegian are going to struggle big time. Government assistance may well be needed, but given the track record with Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe it's unlikely to be forthcoming. Delta may inject some more to help Virgin but they'll have their own issues soon enough. There will no doubt be failures within the next month or two. Quite how Alitalia is still going is a mystery.

Let's be clear, this is a different order of magnitude. Thomas Cook had a debt pile they could never pay off and flybe were appalingly managed. From a survival of the fittest point of view, they deserve to fail so that a more efficient private enterprise can better fill the gap. You make your own bed and lie in it is the idea. THIS is different. HMG are literally not going to sit back and allow BA to even come close to failing, it's too big to fail and they're a well run profitable business with friends in high place and connect the UK to the world. If push came to shove, a way would be found if collapse was a real possibility. There is a geopolitics in a way flybe wasn't
 
BA777FO
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:33 pm

skipness1E wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


To be fair BA's transatlantic loads were quite healthy given the situation and time of year with only two or three exceptions. BA has a healthy balance sheet and paid-for aircraft that will be cheap to stand down. There will be some short-term pain but BA will come through it. Virgin and Norwegian are going to struggle big time. Government assistance may well be needed, but given the track record with Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe it's unlikely to be forthcoming. Delta may inject some more to help Virgin but they'll have their own issues soon enough. There will no doubt be failures within the next month or two. Quite how Alitalia is still going is a mystery.

Let's be clear, this is a different order of magnitude. Thomas Cook had a debt pile they could never pay off and flybe were appalingly managed. From a survival of the fittest point of view, they deserve to fail so that a more efficient private enterprise can better fill the gap. You make your own bed and lie in it is the idea. THIS is different. HMG are literally not going to sit back and allow BA to even come close to failing, it's too big to fail and they're a well run profitable business with friends in high place and connect the UK to the world. If push came to shove, a way would be found if collapse was a real possibility. There is a geopolitics in a way flybe wasn't


I agree - I believe the government's reluctance to support Flybe was because they had already used all of their assets as collaterol and the government would have little hope of recovering monies owed in the event of subsequent failure. BA isn't that leveraged. But they sure wouldn't turn down an interest free loan! I believe EU state aid rules have been relaxed to allow loans and credit guarantees for up to 6 months of operation.

I think it would be unthinkable to lose a company of 41,000 people, many higher rate taxpayers, as well as a main vehicle for moving people and cargo into and out of the country. I imagine they'd provide the same credit lines to Virgin on the basis it can demonstrate a profitable future. The chairman of Virgin is writing to the UK government urging £7.5bn be made available to the UK aviation industry. I'm not sure the government will be particularly willing to stump up quite that much.

The situation, lockdowns etc are going to get worse. European aviation might be halted altogether for some weeks. If there aren't failures somewhere along the line the pain will be incredibly high. Potentially 6-8 more weeks of no revenues and only limited abilities to cut costs.
 
factsonly
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:26 am

Norwegian CEO Jacob Schram gives SOS signal: “We Need Help Now”.

Schram admits that Norwegian is “weeks, not months” away from collapse unless they receive a cash injection.
He says the company is now doing everything they can to get through what he describes as the biggest crisis in the company's history.
In a stock exchange notification on Friday, Norwegian said the turmoil in capital markets has led to the effective closure of access to loans or credit.
“It hurts me to have to push the button on about 5,000 people, about half our employees,” said Schram.

In the stock exchange notification, the company said “we need immediate concrete measures to strengthen our liquidity in the short term.”
Details on the amount of money Norwegian need have not been revealed.
When asked what form of aid they want, Schram said that there are many alternatives.
“What we need is now is a modern form of Marshall aid, which can take us further and get the wheels going again,” said Schram, referring to the European Recovery Program following World War II.

Jacob Schram's statements have received support from the rest of the airline industry and its employees, the majority of which also requires immediate action to secure liquidity of the industry.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norwegian-on-the-brink/
 
B777LRF
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:16 am

My crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else', but here goes:

Norwegian will be subsidised by the Norwegian government, but only the Norwegian part of it; Norwegian SE, IE and UK will go bankrupt
They will be reduced to a single Norwegian AOC, operating the 737NG only
Norwegian will cease all long-haul operations, and the aircraft returned to lessors as the AOCs they operate under goes bankrupt
Norway will read Norwegian the riot act as a condition of being bailed out; no more outsourcing of staff to staffing companies; no more self-employment tax-dodges.
All bases except those in Norway, Sweden and Denmark will be closed
The Airbus and Boeing orders will be cancelled
Red Handling in Gatwick will go bankrupt
Bank Norwegian will be sold off

They will survive with a fleet of around 40 to 80 737NGs, operating intra-Europe only. All staff will be on Norwegian contracts directly with the airline, even if they are based in Sweden or Denmark.
Signature. You just read one.
 
airsmiles
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:30 am

What’s seems clear is that it be will a case of survival of the fittest. I don’t see how Norwegian can possibly fit into that category. I see even more consolidation of airlines as the weakest drop out and others get taken over.
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:41 am

There doesn’t seem to be many ways out of this mess for Norwegian, as walking away from leases even under different AOC’s will more than likely carry some liability risk for them.

The size of the task ahead is mammoth, especially considering how weak they already were in better times.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:17 am

75% of employee income in the private sector compensation by the Danish state just announced.

I suspect Norway and Sweden will announce something similar and so Norwegian employees based in these countries should feel a little safer
 
Someone83
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:42 am

AirPacific747 wrote:
75% of employee income in the private sector compensation by the Danish state just announced.

I suspect Norway and Sweden will announce something similar and so Norwegian employees based in these countries should feel a little safer


Norway has this more or less in place already, by the laws governing temporarily layoffs. Basically the State pays 2/3 of the salary (up to a certain threshold). What being changed is that the government now will pay from the second day, while it used to be the employer had to pay salary for the first 14 days.

So like many other Norwegian enterprises, also Norwegian has sent out notices of temporarily layoffs to several thousands of their employees here in Norway
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:55 am

Someone83 wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
75% of employee income in the private sector compensation by the Danish state just announced.

I suspect Norway and Sweden will announce something similar and so Norwegian employees based in these countries should feel a little safer


Norway has this more or less in place already, by the laws governing temporarily layoffs. Basically the State pays 2/3 of the salary (up to a certain threshold). What being changed is that the government now will pay from the second day, while it used to be the employer had to pay salary for the first 14 days.

So like many other Norwegian enterprises, also Norwegian has sent out notices of temporarily layoffs to several thousands of their employees here in Norway


Still a significant difference between 2/3 and 3/4 compensation when we’re talking potentially hundred or thousands of employees.

Also this is not similar to what you’re talking about. This compensation will be paid as long as the employer holds on to the employee
 
AF022
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:12 pm

B777LRF wrote:
My crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else', but here goes:

Norwegian will be subsidised by the Norwegian government, but only the Norwegian part of it; Norwegian SE, IE and UK will go bankrupt
They will be reduced to a single Norwegian AOC, operating the 737NG only
Norwegian will cease all long-haul operations, and the aircraft returned to lessors as the AOCs they operate under goes bankrupt
Norway will read Norwegian the riot act as a condition of being bailed out; no more outsourcing of staff to staffing companies; no more self-employment tax-dodges.
All bases except those in Norway, Sweden and Denmark will be closed
The Airbus and Boeing orders will be cancelled
Red Handling in Gatwick will go bankrupt
Bank Norwegian will be sold off

They will survive with a fleet of around 40 to 80 737NGs, operating intra-Europe only. All staff will be on Norwegian contracts directly with the airline, even if they are based in Sweden or Denmark.


This seems like a very good path. Hopefully something along these lines will happen.
 
tomcat
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:23 pm

BA777FO wrote:
RexBanner wrote:
Do you really think they were carrying many passengers on those flights in the current climate? The goose has been cooked, not only for Norwegian but for British Airways and every other European airline right now. In airline terms it’s the apocalypse, barring state intervention. It’s a moot point now to be talking about Norwegian when everyone else is staring right down the barrel with them.


To be fair BA's transatlantic loads were quite healthy given the situation and time of year with only two or three exceptions. BA has a healthy balance sheet and paid-for aircraft that will be cheap to stand down. There will be some short-term pain but BA will come through it. Virgin and Norwegian are going to struggle big time. Government assistance may well be needed, but given the track record with Monarch, Thomas Cook and Flybe it's unlikely to be forthcoming. Delta may inject some more to help Virgin but they'll have their own issues soon enough. There will no doubt be failures within the next month or two. Quite how Alitalia is still going is a mystery.


At this point, all the European and US major airlines have requested government assistance. Already now, they are not anymore in a position to inject cash in any of their affiliates.

It seems to me that the business trafic has evaporated much quicker than the low yield trafic. The yields must have been going down faster than the trafic figures. That's the worst case scenario for the majors.
 
moa999
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:33 pm

The Norwegian state is going to be broke pretty quickly. Quite a lot of tourism related business will go quickly.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:57 pm

moa999 wrote:
The Norwegian state is going to be broke pretty quickly. Quite a lot of tourism related business will go quickly.


Really?

https://www.nbim.no

Probably the last place on earth to go broke :-D
 
leghorn
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:09 pm

Them and Singapore.
 
Ferryflight
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:12 pm

moa999 wrote:
The Norwegian state is going to be broke pretty quickly. Quite a lot of tourism related business will go quickly.



Ehhhh, have you any idea what so ever on what you are stating? I hope it’s a joke. If not, the educational level in her is rather amusing!
 
moa999
Posts: 928
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:24 pm

Yes there was some sarcasm in the post. I know Norway is extremely fortunate with its fund.

But funding that level of unemployment pay will quickly send the budget to the red, and with oil and gas prices cratering you have a double whammy.
 
Ferryflight
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:36 pm

moa999 wrote:
Yes there was some sarcasm in the post. I know Norway is extremely fortunate with its fund.

But funding that level of unemployment pay will quickly send the budget to the red, and with oil and gas prices cratering you have a double whammy.


This is getting more and more interesting and instead of acting like you know Norway and it’s economy, I would highly recommend that you change your walking direction back on thicker ice:-)
 
Asiaflyer
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am

Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm

factsonly wrote:
Norwegian CEO Jacob Schram gives SOS signal: “We Need Help Now”.

Schram admits that Norwegian is “weeks, not months” away from collapse unless they receive a cash injection.
He says the company is now doing everything they can to get through what he describes as the biggest crisis in the company's history.
In a stock exchange notification on Friday, Norwegian said the turmoil in capital markets has led to the effective closure of access to loans or credit.
“It hurts me to have to push the button on about 5,000 people, about half our employees,” said Schram.

In the stock exchange notification, the company said “we need immediate concrete measures to strengthen our liquidity in the short term.”
Details on the amount of money Norwegian need have not been revealed.
When asked what form of aid they want, Schram said that there are many alternatives.
“What we need is now is a modern form of Marshall aid, which can take us further and get the wheels going again,” said Schram, referring to the European Recovery Program following World War II.

Jacob Schram's statements have received support from the rest of the airline industry and its employees, the majority of which also requires immediate action to secure liquidity of the industry.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norwegian-on-the-brink/


The capital market has by no mean stopped working, rather opposite. Central banks has injected large amount to ensure credits will still flow. Norwegians problem is that no one is willing to lend them money as they going into this crisis with very poor balance sheet.
In some way, companies who takes care of their finances during good times should (and hopefully will) be awarded during downturns, and the one with unsustainable business models and huge debts must be closed.
It is not reasonable that taxpayers money is used to save everyone and everything.

I am by no mean a Norwegian hater but that shop has no future IMO.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5071
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:21 pm

factsonly wrote:
Norwegian CEO Jacob Schram gives SOS signal: “We Need Help Now”.

Schram admits that Norwegian is “weeks, not months” away from collapse unless they receive a cash injection.
He says the company is now doing everything they can to get through what he describes as the biggest crisis in the company's history.
In a stock exchange notification on Friday, Norwegian said the turmoil in capital markets has led to the effective closure of access to loans or credit.
“It hurts me to have to push the button on about 5,000 people, about half our employees,” said Schram.

In the stock exchange notification, the company said “we need immediate concrete measures to strengthen our liquidity in the short term.”
Details on the amount of money Norwegian need have not been revealed.
When asked what form of aid they want, Schram said that there are many alternatives.
“What we need is now is a modern form of Marshall aid, which can take us further and get the wheels going again,” said Schram, referring to the European Recovery Program following World War II.

Jacob Schram's statements have received support from the rest of the airline industry and its employees, the majority of which also requires immediate action to secure liquidity of the industry.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norwegian-on-the-brink/


If he is saying "weeks, not months", then I think they have at most 2 weeks left. Possibly just one week now that UK flying is also cutoff.

A rescue of DY would probably entail them scaling back to just the Norwegian AOC imo. Doesn't make sense for Norwegian gov't to rescue their UK operation for example.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:34 pm

I hope the CEO's mention of the Marshall Plan wasn't a veiled attempt to secure a cash injection from the US.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:45 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I hope the CEO's mention of the Marshall Plan wasn't a veiled attempt to secure a cash injection from the US.


Yeah he has a lot of nerve bringing up a American aid program for his outfit that hurts American airlines.

His FLL based crews are going to get to collect what? $250 a week in unemployment max thanks to his scheme of moving labor out of Norway? Let it die.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:05 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I hope the CEO's mention of the Marshall Plan wasn't a veiled attempt to secure a cash injection from the US.


Man the amount of b** hurt snowflakes in this thread …


Please note that this was said in an interview in a Norwegian newspaper and was ment as a message to the government of Norway. Because of the Corona virus, both SAS and Norwegian and many other travel related industries in Norway are struggling and are looking for some form of help from the government to get through. The mention of the Marshall plan was just an example of a help program that was a help through a difficult time in Norway's past. They are not asking from help from the USA.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:49 pm

You might want to lookup "snowflake" first- that description doesn't apply. I think we can agree Marshall Plan was a poor example choice- a better example would have been when the Norwegian Govt. rescued a Norwegian company.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:08 pm

eta unknown wrote:
You might want to lookup "snowflake" first- that description doesn't apply. I think we can agree Marshall Plan was a poor example choice- a better example would have been when the Norwegian Govt. rescued a Norwegian company.


No, it was actually a quite fitting example choice tbh. And no why would it be aimed at the US when Norway has a higher standard of living, and a higher gdp per capita than the US anyway?
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 691
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:26 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
You might want to lookup "snowflake" first- that description doesn't apply. I think we can agree Marshall Plan was a poor example choice- a better example would have been when the Norwegian Govt. rescued a Norwegian company.


No, it was actually a quite fitting example choice tbh. And no why would it be aimed at the US when Norway has a higher standard of living, and a higher gdp per capita than the US anyway?


For the same reason the USA subsidizes them militarily with NATO, the USA is a vastly richer than Norway, or the EU combined.

Marshall Plan was a very poor choice of words. They should of said we need to cut to the front of the Oslo welfare lines instead.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:37 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
You might want to lookup "snowflake" first- that description doesn't apply. I think we can agree Marshall Plan was a poor example choice- a better example would have been when the Norwegian Govt. rescued a Norwegian company.


No, it was actually a quite fitting example choice tbh. And no why would it be aimed at the US when Norway has a higher standard of living, and a higher gdp per capita than the US anyway?


For the same reason the USA subsidizes them militarily with NATO, the USA is a vastly richer than Norway, or the EU combined.

Not if you look at it on a per capita basis

Marshall Plan was a very poor choice of words. They should of said we need to cut to the front of the Oslo welfare lines instead.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 691
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:39 pm

Per capita basis? ok I'm richer than the entire USA and EU combined *on a per capita basis*
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:41 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
Per capita basis? ok I'm richer than the entire USA and EU combined *on a per capita basis*


Plus as long as you have the orange clown in office, nobody will look to the USA for help anyway
 
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Mortyman
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:54 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
You might want to lookup "snowflake" first- that description doesn't apply. I think we can agree Marshall Plan was a poor example choice- a better example would have been when the Norwegian Govt. rescued a Norwegian company.


No, it was actually a quite fitting example choice tbh. And no why would it be aimed at the US when Norway has a higher standard of living, and a higher gdp per capita than the US anyway?


For the same reason the USA subsidizes them militarily with NATO, the USA is a vastly richer than Norway, or the EU combined.

Marshall Plan was a very poor choice of words. They should of said we need to cut to the front of the Oslo welfare lines instead.


Well the rest of the world is subsidizising the US economy. Where do you think the US get the money from to allow the US to keep on performing the way it does, without going bankrupt ? It's China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, UK, Norway ( yes, Norway ) and every dam country on earth that either loans US money or invest heavely in the US in order to keep it afloat.

Furthermore, the reason why the US invest in NATO and in Norway is out of own defence and economic interest. If you think that the US has equipment stationed in Norway because the US care about us Norwegians and have a soft spot for us, you are hopelesly naive.. The US is in NATO and are in Norway because it is in the US millitary and economic interest.'''Now if you want to discuss this further, please open a different thread..
 
BealineV953
Posts: 158
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Re: DY about to go bust?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:59 pm

tobsw wrote:
^^ Would you please edit your comment? I find it really difficult to follow AND I cannot take any message you are trying to pass. TA


Competition is ‘fair’ when you sell a good product at a profit.
Short term, Norwegian may offer low prices and that may seem like a wonderful thing.
However, where a business takes money from investors saying that it will be spent on making the company profitable, but instead effectively squanders the money on chasing market share with below cost prices, forcing competitors to sell at sub-optimal prices, reducing their profitability and ability to secure their own future, is that ‘fair’ competition?
Norwegian’s actions may lead to a reduction in competition. Rational carriers will be unwilling to keep making a loss, and may pull out of markets. Norwegian’s actions may even put other airlines out of business. If that happens, is it really good for competition?

Or, as DeltaMD90 says in post 229.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
AF022
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:20 pm

This thread has gone off the rails. How about sticking with news about Norwegian Air Shuttle and its subsidiaries?
 
BealineV953
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Re: DY about to go bust?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:21 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
AirPacific747 wrote:

Maybe, maybe not. The Norwegian government has announced that it will financially support norwegian airlines during this crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN20Y1LG



Only a bit of Norwegian is actually Norwegian , a lot of it is Irish and U.K. and no rational government will throw good money after bad if the underlining business model is failing


They were actually expecting a profit in 2020 if it wasn’t for the corona virus with a lot of measures implemented over the last 1,5 years. So the model isn’t “failing”.

.


They were also expecting a profit in 2019.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:30 pm

AirPacific747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
mattyfitzg wrote:

But would that help extend to Norwegian UK and the various others? Or strictly to the Norwegian based, Norwegian operated part of Norwegian?


As a Norwegian taxpayer I sincerely hope it's just the Norwegian operated part of Norwegian.


So the Norwegian tax payers are also funding the oil fund? Interesting.


Does anyone know, what proposal was put to the Norwegian Government on Friday?
I can't find any details on the web.
Is the suggestion of nationalising Norwegian serious?
If so, all of it, or just the Norwegian AS party of it?
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
BealineV953
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:00 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:42 pm

Lgw787 wrote:
Just a question, would it be possible that maybe Norway decides to support NAS only, and if so what could happen to NUK NAI and the Swedish AOC, could they potentially fail but leave NAS flying?
Can’t picture BA, Easyjet and Ryanair staying quiet or the US3 if the Norwegian government subsidise flights to and from LGW, BCN, CDG.


It is a very good question.
Yep, I can't see IAG (for BA, IB & Level) plus JV partner AA, VS plus part owner DL, easyJet and Ryanair being comfortable with the Norwegian Government bailing out NUK.
What the Norwegian Government (ie taxpayer) does to support Norwegian AS is up to them, assuming it is in line with what other EU governments do to support their local airlines.
Ever since childhood, when I lived within sight of London Airport, I have seldom seen a plane go by and not wished I was on it.”
With apologies to Paul Theroux - ‘The Great Railway Bazaar’
 
degenfly
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:27 am

Re: DY about to go bust?

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:04 pm

BealineV953 wrote:

Does anyone know, what proposal was put to the Norwegian Government on Friday?
I can't find any details on the web.
Is the suggestion of nationalising Norwegian serious?
If so, all of it, or just the Norwegian AS party of it?


Specifically for airlines, it was only waiving of passenger fees and landing fees. Nothing close to enough.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:28 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I hope the CEO's mention of the Marshall Plan wasn't a veiled attempt to secure a cash injection from the US.


Yeah he has a lot of nerve bringing up a American aid program for his outfit that hurts American airlines.

His FLL based crews are going to get to collect what? $250 a week in unemployment max thanks to his scheme of moving labor out of Norway? Let it die.


hmmmmm, I don't know of a single US airline that is hurting b/c of DY.
 
a350lover
Posts: 865
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:52 pm

Interestingly, Norwegian followed a strategy of outsourcing jobs and resources not just for expanding its network, but also for decreasing costs of jobs by taking them out of Norway. For instance, in Spain, they first opened a base in AGP which was actually used for rostering crews trips which included overnights in Norway to operate domestic flights there. As the network increased in Spain, they mostly serve now Spain-Scandinavia flights.

Makes complete sense that any Public funding of the airline now from Norway would be just to secure jobs and operations there in Norway. However, these won't be the "cheapest" to fund in an airline which hasn't make money for quite a while.

The good part of all this crisis is Norwegian probably has realized its expanding strategy makes zero sense, not in this scenario we are living now, but for years. Without any level of integration in a bigger group, no airline has proved long haul low cost flights are "sustainable" in business terms. Maybe by downsizing the airline they can get back to basics and it isn't too late for surviving not just in Norway, but in all Europe flying short haul.

Just bad timing for de-fleet, specially of big jets.
 
airsmiles
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:14 pm

Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:04 pm

a350lover wrote:
Just bad timing for de-fleet, specially of big jets.


The 787’s would appeal to an operator who could withdraw (e.g.) 747’s, rebalance their overall capacity and get some fuel savings.

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